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	<title>Comments on: The G-Word and the N-Word</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/05/20/the-g-word-and-the-n-word/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/05/20/the-g-word-and-the-n-word/</link>
	<description>Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:48:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: QrazyQat</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/05/20/the-g-word-and-the-n-word/#comment-598</link>
		<dc:creator>QrazyQat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/05/20/the-g-word-and-the-n-word/#comment-598</guid>
		<description>I heard about this incident on the local news and the teacher just blew it.  He started off doing something good, and he'd have had my support if he had kept it to simply pointing out that the word shouldn't be used in that context, and equated it with other words that people wouldn't like used in a derogatory way.  That's what he started off doing, and he could have either done it in the hall with the individual student, or in the class with everybody.  But then he added the sentence when he and the student reentered the room, no doubt trying to drive home the point.  But that was a huge mistake, not only because it's just plain wrong, but because it destroyed his work at making his very valid point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heard about this incident on the local news and the teacher just blew it.  He started off doing something good, and he&#8217;d have had my support if he had kept it to simply pointing out that the word shouldn&#8217;t be used in that context, and equated it with other words that people wouldn&#8217;t like used in a derogatory way.  That&#8217;s what he started off doing, and he could have either done it in the hall with the individual student, or in the class with everybody.  But then he added the sentence when he and the student reentered the room, no doubt trying to drive home the point.  But that was a huge mistake, not only because it&#8217;s just plain wrong, but because it destroyed his work at making his very valid point.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/05/20/the-g-word-and-the-n-word/#comment-599</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/05/20/the-g-word-and-the-n-word/#comment-599</guid>
		<description>I feel like the Sufi judge:  one side makes an argument.  "You're right," he says.  The other side makes a counter-argument.  "You're right, too" he says.  An onlooker gasps and cries "But they both can't be right!"  And the judge says "You're right."

A clumsy attempt at teaching tolerance is right.  The first part of the attempt I have no problem with.  It's classic ad hominem -- to the person -- reasoning:  "How would you feel if you were in this similar position?"  The second half of the little passion play was entirely mistaken and the teacher should be disciplined, but not fired, for it.  I would advise requiring an apology for the second.

As for the difference between "institutionalized" and "individual" racism:  the line's pretty fuzzy, ampersand.  Institutions are run by cliques, cabals, and groups of people who have power.  The racism of &lt;i&gt;these&lt;/i&gt; individuals matters.  And your distinction could be used in a backlash:  why worry if a bunch of white students -- individuals to the boy and the girl -- become racists because of this?  After all, they aren't in themselves institutions.

Each person forms part of an institution.  Institutions don't just include bureaucracies, corporations, small businesses, and schools:  they also include families, gangs, marriages, and cliques.  These, too, institutionalize racism and they wield power by organizing their members to a purpose.  All can be soul-oppressing, all can suck dignity straight from the heart of the persecuted.  

The individual is where we must start. The boy was wrong to use the word "gay" in offense against another.  He needed to be corrected.  The teacher, too, needs to be corrected for fueling the racism of others.  His lesson backfired because he handled it stupidly.  An apology is due for part two of the exercise, but for part one he owes the student no apology and the student must be made aware of the distinction between the two parts of the case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel like the Sufi judge:  one side makes an argument.  &#8220;You&#8217;re right,&#8221; he says.  The other side makes a counter-argument.  &#8220;You&#8217;re right, too&#8221; he says.  An onlooker gasps and cries &#8220;But they both can&#8217;t be right!&#8221;  And the judge says &#8220;You&#8217;re right.&#8221;</p>
<p>A clumsy attempt at teaching tolerance is right.  The first part of the attempt I have no problem with.  It&#8217;s classic ad hominem &#8212; to the person &#8212; reasoning:  &#8220;How would you feel if you were in this similar position?&#8221;  The second half of the little passion play was entirely mistaken and the teacher should be disciplined, but not fired, for it.  I would advise requiring an apology for the second.</p>
<p>As for the difference between &#8220;institutionalized&#8221; and &#8220;individual&#8221; racism:  the line&#8217;s pretty fuzzy, ampersand.  Institutions are run by cliques, cabals, and groups of people who have power.  The racism of <i>these</i> individuals matters.  And your distinction could be used in a backlash:  why worry if a bunch of white students &#8212; individuals to the boy and the girl &#8212; become racists because of this?  After all, they aren&#8217;t in themselves institutions.</p>
<p>Each person forms part of an institution.  Institutions don&#8217;t just include bureaucracies, corporations, small businesses, and schools:  they also include families, gangs, marriages, and cliques.  These, too, institutionalize racism and they wield power by organizing their members to a purpose.  All can be soul-oppressing, all can suck dignity straight from the heart of the persecuted.  </p>
<p>The individual is where we must start. The boy was wrong to use the word &#8220;gay&#8221; in offense against another.  He needed to be corrected.  The teacher, too, needs to be corrected for fueling the racism of others.  His lesson backfired because he handled it stupidly.  An apology is due for part two of the exercise, but for part one he owes the student no apology and the student must be made aware of the distinction between the two parts of the case.</p>
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		<title>By: Mac Diva</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/05/20/the-g-word-and-the-n-word/#comment-600</link>
		<dc:creator>Mac Diva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/05/20/the-g-word-and-the-n-word/#comment-600</guid>
		<description>I mainly agree with Joel, but will point out an error.  The student was using the word 'gay' in its current adolescent slang sense, 'uncool.'  He wasn't referring to a person at all.  

Several people have said I should give more weight to the underlying connotations  of gay being synonymous with uncool, and I have in &lt;a href="http://www.silverrights.blogspot.com/#94623486"&gt;a second entry&lt;/a&gt;.  There will likely be a third since I've received so much commentary on this topic.

Also, I urge people to read the full &lt;i&gt;Seattle Times&lt;/i&gt; story.  More than one student was involved and Emanuels almost came to blows with one of them.  That is part of the reason I believe he really is not cut out to be a teacher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mainly agree with Joel, but will point out an error.  The student was using the word &#8216;gay&#8217; in its current adolescent slang sense, &#8216;uncool.&#8217;  He wasn&#8217;t referring to a person at all.  </p>
<p>Several people have said I should give more weight to the underlying connotations  of gay being synonymous with uncool, and I have in <a href="http://www.silverrights.blogspot.com/#94623486">a second entry</a>.  There will likely be a third since I&#8217;ve received so much commentary on this topic.</p>
<p>Also, I urge people to read the full <i>Seattle Times</i> story.  More than one student was involved and Emanuels almost came to blows with one of them.  That is part of the reason I believe he really is not cut out to be a teacher.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/05/20/the-g-word-and-the-n-word/#comment-601</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/05/20/the-g-word-and-the-n-word/#comment-601</guid>
		<description>So, MacDiva, if I use the word "nigger" and I say that it just means "you're uncool" it's OK?  (My answer:  NO.)

"Gay" means "effeminate pansy" in the current adolescent sense, not "uncool" in everyone's dictionary except the idiosyncratic one that you invented for the purpose of your post.  You're acting the de facto apologist for gay-bashing, because the boy happened to be African American.  

I'm not buying the product you're selling.  It would help all who fight prejudice more if you wouldn't try to find excuses for people you happen to like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, MacDiva, if I use the word &#8220;nigger&#8221; and I say that it just means &#8220;you&#8217;re uncool&#8221; it&#8217;s OK?  (My answer:  NO.)</p>
<p>&#8220;Gay&#8221; means &#8220;effeminate pansy&#8221; in the current adolescent sense, not &#8220;uncool&#8221; in everyone&#8217;s dictionary except the idiosyncratic one that you invented for the purpose of your post.  You&#8217;re acting the de facto apologist for gay-bashing, because the boy happened to be African American.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not buying the product you&#8217;re selling.  It would help all who fight prejudice more if you wouldn&#8217;t try to find excuses for people you happen to like.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/05/20/the-g-word-and-the-n-word/#comment-602</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/05/20/the-g-word-and-the-n-word/#comment-602</guid>
		<description>So, MacDiva, if I use the word "nigger" and say that it just means "clown", it's OK?  (My answer:  NO.)

"Gay" means "effeminate pansy" in every one's dictionary except the idiosyncratic one that you invented for the purpose of this post.  You are, in your zeal to stand up for an African American, enlisted as a de facto supporter of homophobia.

I'm not buying your product.  It's nothing more than a weak attempt to save a person you happen to like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, MacDiva, if I use the word &#8220;nigger&#8221; and say that it just means &#8220;clown&#8221;, it&#8217;s OK?  (My answer:  NO.)</p>
<p>&#8220;Gay&#8221; means &#8220;effeminate pansy&#8221; in every one&#8217;s dictionary except the idiosyncratic one that you invented for the purpose of this post.  You are, in your zeal to stand up for an African American, enlisted as a de facto supporter of homophobia.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not buying your product.  It&#8217;s nothing more than a weak attempt to save a person you happen to like.</p>
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		<title>By: Lance Zielinski</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/05/20/the-g-word-and-the-n-word/#comment-603</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance Zielinski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/05/20/the-g-word-and-the-n-word/#comment-603</guid>
		<description>I've read your caption and in it you imply the TEACHER said that this [insert N-word here] could come back to class when in fact the STUDENT said it...  From the Seattle P.I.

"The maelstrom surrounding Emanuels began April 29, when a black student in one of his classes referred an exercise as "gay." Emanuels told the student the term was hurtful to homosexuals and unacceptable in his classroom. When the teen argued, Emanuels took him into the hallway to discuss the matter and asked him how he would feel if someone called him a "nigger." 
     Emanuels said that AS THE STUDENT walked back into the class, he remarked, "This nigger can come back into the classroom," and [Emanuels] immediately followed the comment by telling the class such language is offensive and unacceptable."

In light of this, I believe some of you may wish to re-consider your stance on this.  I don't believe that the teacher did anything wrong, he simply asked the kid, "How would you feel like if someone called you a [insert politically incorrect N-word here....]?"  Then this was made into something it was NOT.

The teacher got this negative attention because he was WHITE, no other reason.  Which in itself is innappropriate.  If a black teacher asked a black kid the same question, this would never have been an issue.  

It's a politically correct witch hunt.  The kid doesn't face any negative consequences for using "Gay" in a derogatory manner... why?  If the teacher is going to be disciplined for trying to EDUCATE the student about how some words can hurt people, then why shouldn't the student actually be disciplined for being a "gay basher"?  Fair's fair, or is it politically incorrect to discipline a non-white student for making slurs about races or sexual preference.

Just a clarification and my comments on the ACTUAL events....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve read your caption and in it you imply the TEACHER said that this [insert N-word here] could come back to class when in fact the STUDENT said it&#8230;  From the Seattle P.I.</p>
<p>&#8220;The maelstrom surrounding Emanuels began April 29, when a black student in one of his classes referred an exercise as &#8220;gay.&#8221; Emanuels told the student the term was hurtful to homosexuals and unacceptable in his classroom. When the teen argued, Emanuels took him into the hallway to discuss the matter and asked him how he would feel if someone called him a &#8220;nigger.&#8221;<br />
     Emanuels said that AS THE STUDENT walked back into the class, he remarked, &#8220;This nigger can come back into the classroom,&#8221; and [Emanuels] immediately followed the comment by telling the class such language is offensive and unacceptable.&#8221;</p>
<p>In light of this, I believe some of you may wish to re-consider your stance on this.  I don&#8217;t believe that the teacher did anything wrong, he simply asked the kid, &#8220;How would you feel like if someone called you a [insert politically incorrect N-word here....]?&#8221;  Then this was made into something it was NOT.</p>
<p>The teacher got this negative attention because he was WHITE, no other reason.  Which in itself is innappropriate.  If a black teacher asked a black kid the same question, this would never have been an issue.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a politically correct witch hunt.  The kid doesn&#8217;t face any negative consequences for using &#8220;Gay&#8221; in a derogatory manner&#8230; why?  If the teacher is going to be disciplined for trying to EDUCATE the student about how some words can hurt people, then why shouldn&#8217;t the student actually be disciplined for being a &#8220;gay basher&#8221;?  Fair&#8217;s fair, or is it politically incorrect to discipline a non-white student for making slurs about races or sexual preference.</p>
<p>Just a clarification and my comments on the ACTUAL events&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ampersand</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/05/20/the-g-word-and-the-n-word/#comment-604</link>
		<dc:creator>Ampersand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/05/20/the-g-word-and-the-n-word/#comment-604</guid>
		<description>Lance, you're mistaken.

From a story in &lt;a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/education/134918216_teacher06m.html"&gt;today's Seattle P.I.&lt;/a&gt; - this is a direct quote:

Emanuels said that as the student walked back into the class, he remarked, "This nigger can come back into the classroom," and immediately followed the comment by telling the class such language is offensive and unacceptable.

The word "he" only appears once; it can refer to either the student or Emanuels, but not (as in your version of the quote) both. So either "he" refers to Emanuels - in which case Emanuels said "nigger," not the student - or "he" refers to the student - in which case, the student "immediately followed" his &lt;i&gt;own&lt;/i&gt; use of the n-word "by telling the class such language is offensive and unacceptable." That seems unlikely.

I do agree that the phrasing is confusing. Consulting other stories makes it clear that either every press account got things wrong, or I got things right.

From an &lt;a href="http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/122111_racialslur15.html"&gt;earlier Seattle PI story&lt;/a&gt;:

Brenda Little, deputy general counsel for Seattle Public Schools, said the teacher then walked back into the classroom with the boy, saying to the class, " 'Well, I guess the n- - - - - can come back in.'

"He's not denying he said that," Little said.

And this is the story from the &lt;a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/education/134918216_teacher06m.html"&gt;Seattle Times&lt;/a&gt;:

He pulled the 16-year-old junior out of class and referred to him with a slur used against black people, asking him how he liked being called that name. Emanuels later repeated the slur in class.

Finally, I do think that teachers should be held to higher standards than students, so I'm not bothered by the double-standard of punishing a teacher more for saying "nigger" than a student is punished for saying "gay." (Not that Emanuels was fired, or even resigned; he kept working for the school system until he was laid off along with dozens of other non-senior teachers, due to budget cuts.)

You seem to be on a witchhunt for a "politically correct" witchhunt, dude. But you've gotten the facts wrong on this incident.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lance, you&#8217;re mistaken.</p>
<p>From a story in <a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/education/134918216_teacher06m.html">today&#8217;s Seattle P.I.</a> - this is a direct quote:</p>
<p>Emanuels said that as the student walked back into the class, he remarked, &#8220;This nigger can come back into the classroom,&#8221; and immediately followed the comment by telling the class such language is offensive and unacceptable.</p>
<p>The word &#8220;he&#8221; only appears once; it can refer to either the student or Emanuels, but not (as in your version of the quote) both. So either &#8220;he&#8221; refers to Emanuels - in which case Emanuels said &#8220;nigger,&#8221; not the student - or &#8220;he&#8221; refers to the student - in which case, the student &#8220;immediately followed&#8221; his <i>own</i> use of the n-word &#8220;by telling the class such language is offensive and unacceptable.&#8221; That seems unlikely.</p>
<p>I do agree that the phrasing is confusing. Consulting other stories makes it clear that either every press account got things wrong, or I got things right.</p>
<p>From an <a href="http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/122111_racialslur15.html">earlier Seattle PI story</a>:</p>
<p>Brenda Little, deputy general counsel for Seattle Public Schools, said the teacher then walked back into the classroom with the boy, saying to the class, &#8221; &#8216;Well, I guess the n- - - - - can come back in.&#8217;</p>
<p>&#8220;He&#8217;s not denying he said that,&#8221; Little said.</p>
<p>And this is the story from the <a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/education/134918216_teacher06m.html">Seattle Times</a>:</p>
<p>He pulled the 16-year-old junior out of class and referred to him with a slur used against black people, asking him how he liked being called that name. Emanuels later repeated the slur in class.</p>
<p>Finally, I do think that teachers should be held to higher standards than students, so I&#8217;m not bothered by the double-standard of punishing a teacher more for saying &#8220;nigger&#8221; than a student is punished for saying &#8220;gay.&#8221; (Not that Emanuels was fired, or even resigned; he kept working for the school system until he was laid off along with dozens of other non-senior teachers, due to budget cuts.)</p>
<p>You seem to be on a witchhunt for a &#8220;politically correct&#8221; witchhunt, dude. But you&#8217;ve gotten the facts wrong on this incident.</p>
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		<title>By: Buioeu</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/05/20/the-g-word-and-the-n-word/#comment-605</link>
		<dc:creator>Buioeu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/05/20/the-g-word-and-the-n-word/#comment-605</guid>
		<description>"Gay" means "effeminate pansy" in every one's dictionary except the idiosyncratic one that you invented for the purpose of this post. You are, in your zeal to stand up for an African American, enlisted as a de facto supporter of homophobia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Gay&#8221; means &#8220;effeminate pansy&#8221; in every one&#8217;s dictionary except the idiosyncratic one that you invented for the purpose of this post. You are, in your zeal to stand up for an African American, enlisted as a de facto supporter of homophobia.</p>
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		<title>By: jstevenson</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/05/20/the-g-word-and-the-n-word/#comment-606</link>
		<dc:creator>jstevenson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/05/20/the-g-word-and-the-n-word/#comment-606</guid>
		<description>"You are, in your zeal to stand up for an African American, enlisted as a de facto supporter of homophobia."

So P.C. -- I just loved that post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You are, in your zeal to stand up for an African American, enlisted as a de facto supporter of homophobia.&#8221;</p>
<p>So P.C. &#8212; I just loved that post.</p>
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		<title>By: jstevenson</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/05/20/the-g-word-and-the-n-word/#comment-607</link>
		<dc:creator>jstevenson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/05/20/the-g-word-and-the-n-word/#comment-607</guid>
		<description>We all know that "fag" means "To labor to wearness; to work hard" in every one's dictionary except the idiosyncratic one . . . 
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We all know that &#8220;fag&#8221; means &#8220;To labor to wearness; to work hard&#8221; in every one&#8217;s dictionary except the idiosyncratic one . . .</p>
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