Study: 9-13% of wives have been raped by husbands
| June 3rd, 2003I read an interesting (and horrifying - but in a way that’s fairly typical of rape prevalence studies) study in October’s Violence and Victims. The study used a random telephone survey to contact a national sample of women. Women were asked questions about a wide variety of topics (politics, drugs, the environment, etc). Sample size was 602.
Near the end of the survey, respondents were asked if they’d ever had sex with a husband or partner “when you really did not want to?” Those who answered “yes” to this screener question (about a third) were then asked seven further questions about why the respondent had unwanted sex, ranging from relatively mild forms of coercion (had sex because “…you thought he expected sex from you in return for certain actions, such as spending money on you for a gift or taking you out for a nice dinner”) to what most people would consider rape (”after he used physical force on you in order to have sex”).
9% of wives said that at some point their current spouse had used physical force on her in order to have sex; an additional 4% said that their current spouse had threatened to hurt her if she didn’t have sex.
In the larger sample - looking not only at husbands but at “partners” in general - 10% of women (7% physically forced, 3% threatened) had been raped by their current partner or spouse. When current and past partners are included, the numbers increase to 17-20%.
It’s interesting that rape is more common in marriage than in nonmarried partnerships. It’s possible that this indicates that “a marriage license is a raping license” - that is, that for some men, being married means that the wife cannot refuse sex; by promising to love, honor and obey, she gave up her right to say “no.” Until fairly recently, this is what many state laws in effect said - many rape laws had a “marital rape exemption,” meaning that legally there was no such thing as rape within marriage. (Currently, marital rape is a crime in all fifty states, in at least some form.)
It’s also possible that women are more likely to break up with a rapist unmarried partner than they are to divorce a rapist husband.
Another possibility is that the difference just reflects opportunity. People who are married are together more often and for longer periods of their lives; this might create more frequent opportunities for rape, accounting for the difference.
Or maybe the difference is just statistical noise.
Since this is a relatively new study, and I’m not an expert, I can’t say how this study will look in five years time - maybe there will be enough legitimate criticisms by then to put this study’s methodology in doubt. But this study’s findings are consistent with what most other nationally-representative studies of rape have found; rape is much more common than official statistics indicate, happens to 10-20% of American women at some point in their life, and the typical rape is committed by a man the victim knows, not by a stranger.
In a 1999 study, Brian Spitzberg “statistically aggregated” the results of 120 rape prevalence studies, for a total sample size of over 100,000; a total of 13% of women in these studies reported having had sex due to physical force or threat. (Some rapes were excluded by Spitzberg’s definition: for example, anal rapes, oral rapes, and rapes committed by using rohypnol, the so-called “date rape drug.”)
All rape prevalence studies have areas of ambiguity; it’s possible to endlessly debate the “true” definition of rape, for example. There is no such thing as a single, absolutely correct rape prevalence number. But even so, it’s hard to deny that results like these are horrifying.
June 3rd, 2003 at 4:27 pm
One reason married women rather than cohabiting women in that study were more likely to have been raped is that married women are more likely to have children. It’s harder to leave, so they stay longer. Plus there is the threat of a custody battle if she does leave with the kids. If “partner” meant both “seeing each other” and “cohabiting,” there’s the access issue to take into consideration as well.
This comment was written by Trish Wilson.Report this comment to the moderators
June 3rd, 2003 at 4:56 pm
Gawd, this is depressing news. The idea of the home as a haven. . . (Sigh.)
This comment was written by Mac Diva.Report this comment to the moderators
June 4th, 2003 at 7:46 am
As far as the married women being more likely to be raped than partnered unmarried women, I’m not a statistician by any stretch, but I find it unlikely that 10% vs. 13% is statistically significant. But without the raw data it’s impossible to say. Either way it is horrific, though I was actually surprised by how low the numbers were.
This comment was written by Jake.Report this comment to the moderators
June 4th, 2003 at 9:26 am
I’d bet that if you included “had sex with me while I was asleep” the numbers would go way up. Almost every married woman I know well has had this happen to her by her husband. Anecdotal, I know, but I just have a feeling that this is really, really common.
This comment was written by Tishie.Report this comment to the moderators
June 4th, 2003 at 9:41 am
Jake: Yeah, I agree. That’s what I meant by saying it could be just statistical noise (okay, so that’s not exactly the technical term for it :-) ).
Tishie - I think you’re right; and also the thing of having sex with someone who’s passed-out drunk, which I suspect is a lot more common than most rape prevalence studies measue.
This comment was written by Ampersand.Report this comment to the moderators
June 4th, 2003 at 3:01 pm
jees, Tishie, really? None of my married friends has mentioned this to me, and my husband would never dream of such a thing…in fact, I don’t know that it would occur to most of the married women I know to even worry about that. Maybe your experience is more “average” than mine, but I find that astonishing.
This comment was written by emjaybee.Report this comment to the moderators
June 4th, 2003 at 11:19 pm
Well, like I said, anecdotes, right? Maybe all of my friends are married to creepier-than-the-norm men. But they seem average to me.
I found this out during a rather strange conversation with several of us. I don’t think it’s something people normally bring up out of the blue, ya know? Maybe some of your friends have had this happen, maybe not. I sure hope not.
But I do find it odd and scary that it seems to have happened to so many women I know.
This comment was written by Tishie.Report this comment to the moderators
June 5th, 2003 at 7:10 am
Blogwatch
This comment was written by Noli Irritare Leones.I’m hoping to have time again soon to do more than link others, but in the meantime here are some
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June 7th, 2003 at 9:20 am
Actually had sex with them while they were asleep? I’m definitely in the “that sounds creepy, and my husband would never dream of doing that” camp.
On the other hand, being woken up by sexual advances (not proceeding to actual sex till I was actually awake and consenting) wouldn’t be bad at all from my husband, but would be horrible from someone with whom I’d never consented to anything sexual to begin with (once, in college, I fell asleep in the living room, and someone came along and kissed me while I was asleep, and I was furious - I’d turned down his request for a kiss the day before).
All the really mild levels of coercion (like not really wanting to have sex, but agreeing because the other person did something nice, or sex while slightly tipsy) seem to me to be fair game between spouses (where a certain level of general willingness could be presumed), but lousy between mere dates, while all the really bad forms of coercion (violent rape, sex while passed out drunk) seem to me all the worse when done to your wife.
This comment was written by Lynn.Report this comment to the moderators
June 7th, 2003 at 1:26 pm
Those interested in the sideline of sex or sexual advances while one or the other is sleeping (”sleepsexing,” some call it, but that rankles) might be interested in this long-standing discussion thread over at Scarlet Letters.
This comment was written by ---k..Report this comment to the moderators
June 25th, 2003 at 1:35 pm
my husband has had sex with me when i was sleeping. i woke up to realize what was happening and feeling violated. for some it might be pleasureable but to me it was rape. i’ll never forgive him for it.
This comment was written by beth.Report this comment to the moderators
July 15th, 2003 at 11:11 am
I know how this feels. I am a sexually abused wife……..
This comment was written by Leslie.Report this comment to the moderators
July 25th, 2003 at 11:26 am
This has happened to me at least once a month for the last ten years. To me it is rape…how do you get over it?
This comment was written by Mary.Report this comment to the moderators
July 25th, 2003 at 3:27 pm
Mary, have you talked to anyone about it? Perhaps you can try calling RAINN (the Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network) at 1-800-656-HOPE, or go to their website to find some information about rape, what to do, and find a counseling center near you.
Sometimes, simply talking to a counselor over the phone is enough. Sometimes going to a regular session of individual or group counseling is needed. Sometimes more is needed (in which case, a counselor should be able to point in that direction). Other times, simply talking to someone about it (not necessarily a counselor) is enough. If you want to do the latter, but don’t have any friends you feel you can trust about this issue, you can always e-mail me. I have been certified in the state of NY as a rape crisis counselor, although I do not work as one now. But that doesn’t mean I have to talk to you as a counselor.
This comment was written by bean.Report this comment to the moderators
July 25th, 2003 at 8:30 pm
My husband doesn’t consider this rape. What do you think? Thank you for your concern.
This comment was written by Mary.Report this comment to the moderators
July 25th, 2003 at 10:28 pm
Well, of course he doesn’t think it’s rape.
What’s more important is how you feel. If you are sleeping, you are unable to give consent. If you are unable to give consent, it is rape. I know there are a lot of ambiguities when it comes to rape and the victim being drunk. But there is a time when there is no doubt that it is rape — in the minds of nearly everyone (except rapists and men with entitlement issues) and in the eyes of the law, and that’s when she is passed out. No means no — but the lack of ability to say (or otherwise communicate) no also means no.
Have you talked to him about this? What do you do or say when it happens (when you wake up, or after it happens)? If you have communicated to him that this is not what you want and he continues anyway, that is even further evidence that it is, in fact, rape.
It is one thing to wake a woman up by trying to seduce her (incredibly annoying and pathetic, but something other than rape), it is something else entirely to have sex with her when she is asleep (whether she wakes up during or not).
Trying a case like this in a court of law would, unfortunately, be incredibly hard to do. Even though spousal-rape is now (finally) illegal in all states, it is still incredibly difficult to actually prosecute. That doesn’t mean, however, that there aren’t other things you can do — whether it be get counseling for yourself, couples counseling, or leaving him. I would suggest you do at least one of those things.
This comment was written by bean.Report this comment to the moderators
July 28th, 2003 at 7:50 pm
Thank you for your help.
This comment was written by Mary.Report this comment to the moderators
July 30th, 2003 at 12:51 pm
Mary,
as awful as this sounds, i am glad to know that i am not the only one living in this situation, my husband does not consider this rape either. after 5 years i have given up my bed in favor of sleeping in my boys’ room (the door locks)
i dont know what the future of my marriage is but i do know that there isnt one until hubby can own what he has done to me and accept resonsability.
This comment was written by beth.Report this comment to the moderators
July 30th, 2003 at 5:48 pm
Beth,
I’m sorry for what you are going through. I know how you feel. I recently left my husband and started going to therapy. I would highly suggest it if you can. I know you are scared, especially with children involved. I have three of my own. What I have learned through therapy is that they (our husbands) will never consider this rape. They don’t understand that every time they are doing that, they are stripping away our dignity and our spirit. It’s not right! Sex should be a gift that you share with each other, not something that is taken away from you when you are sleeping. I was a victim of date rape before I met my husband, so my husband blames that experience on why I feel the way I do about what he has done to me. There is a way out! You have to put it to an end, whether that means staying in your marriage and making your husband see it your way, or get out of it. If you can’t do it for yourself, do it for your boys! If you need someone to talk to, I’m here. I completely understand how you feel.
This comment was written by Mary.Report this comment to the moderators
July 31st, 2003 at 11:34 am
I am also a passed victim of rape. I’m also engaged to a wonderful person who I love dearly. He knows about my passed experience with rape and he says he tries to understand, however he too focuses me to do things that I don’t want. For instants I told him to stop three times when he was using something on me… he wouldn’t, I felt SO violated. I kept on saying this is wrong and I wanted him to stop.
He also asks me over and over if I would try anal-sex him… I don’t really give an answer because I’m afraid of how he will treat him afterwards. Then he says “if you love me then you would.” I couldn’t believe he said that but I once again I don’t say anything. I think it’s because of my passed that I can’t stand up of myself, especially in bed.
What really scared me is that he asked me what I would think if I woke up with him having sex with me instead of a alarm clock. I said isn’t that rape? He said no because I am going to be his wife. So I just said I don’t know what I think. (after this site i know that is rape!)
Whenever I pull away when I just want to watch the movie or just be by his side he get SO upset - never dose he hurt me but he makes me feel so guilty for not letting him do what he wants with me. We are only 19 and getting married soon, I fear that this is just the beginning to a bad marriage because we don’t agree to a lot of sexual things. I love him so much!!! But not when all he wants is sex :( The bad thing of this all is I will do anything to please him but in the process I know I’m slowly my sense of “self”, what should I do?
This comment was written by Jessica.Report this comment to the moderators
July 31st, 2003 at 7:37 pm
Jessica, I have e-mailed you a longer e-mail, but I just want to say here a few key points of that e-mail:
First, you should know that what your fiancée is doing to you is wrong. I am not trying to say that he doesn’t, in fact, love you, or that he isn’t a great guy in other ways (you must love him if you are engaged to him). I do hope that there is a way for the two of you to work this out ? but you should know that there might be no other option other than leaving him. And I know that would be hard — it’s always hard to leave someone you love. Like I said, it’s not a definite that it will come to that — but you must be prepared for that possibility in order to protect yourself.
It sounds as though your fiancée has entitlement issues. He feels entitled to have sex with you whenever he wants. He does not take your feelings into consideration, only his own. He probably views you (at least on a subconscious level) as his property — you are to be ‘his wife’ — and he feels entitled to do whatever he wants with his property.
I want you to know that what you are feeling is not wrong. You have the right to not be in the mood for sex — and you have the right to not have sex at that time. You have the right to not want to perform certain sexual acts — either ever, or at a particular time. You have the right to say no at any time — you do not owe him sexual favors.
This comment was written by bean.Report this comment to the moderators
July 31st, 2003 at 11:38 pm
Jenn, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR RESPONDING!!! It was so nice of you to take your time on my situation and help me better understand what’s going on in my relationship w/my fiancee’. This was extremely helpful information to start out with….
This comment was written by Jessica.Okay there is more to this all… he is a US Marine and is away in North Carolina basically until we are married, November 1st. I get to talk with him on the phone. On the phone I can talk more openly about my feelings towards our passed issues with sexual encounters - but still EXTREMELY hard for me to do so (with people I know).
I guess when I look back at our relationship in the beginning, (2 yrs ago) there was similar issues that occurred like the ones I shared w/you earlier… and we talked about it after the fact, probably months later because it’s hard for me to talk (which I know is very bad) Whenever I bring up bad issues from the passed he always says how he “remembers them and that he was being a jerk and that he will make it up to me.” Which leaves me hoping and thinking everything is going to work out this time!! :)
He was telling me during boot camp how he was going to treat me good and massage my feet and do really romantic stuff. . . when he came home to me all he did was sleep, work, eat and have sex with me. I wanted so bad to spend time with him when he was sleeping and I knew if I had sex with him then he would stay awake and treat me better for the time being, it almost seemed as though he planed this?? During this time when he was on-leave (home w/me) he pulled the “if you love me” stuff and guilt trips like he would say “FINE!” if i pulled away ( I feel very guilty when he says that) and just have bad sex w/him anyway.
So tonight I called him after posting on the site to you. I told him the times he hurt me. He said that he knew he treated me bad and that he was sorry and that he will defiantly make it up to me. Dose sounds familiar to you ?
He will play “games” with me I think, like he will get me to say things because he said them to me so he makes me feel like I have to say them back…. for instance he said that HIS body will be all mine and no one Else and that it’s not his anymore because it’s mine - so then I just said the same thing because I thought that was what he was waiting for me to say and I was suppose to say that? There are other things like this that he does now and then. I never really realized all these small things until after he left again to North Carolina - I guess he really hurt me when he was home and then just left again and I felt very used :( Still love him?
When do I know it’s the time when he really means it? When do I know when he is telling the truth? How could I still be in mad love with him after the things he does?
I have so much faith in him that he can change, I want that so bad but I don’t want this to become a bigger problem down the road in our marriage.
So basically I will do anything to make this work, the bad part of this all is I’m afraid that I could never leave him no matter what… I guess I feel that no one can love me the way he dose, I love Aaron so much it hurts. . .
I’m still confused, please help me to find some way of figuring this out so both Aaron and I are a happily married couple. I want this to work more then anything - Aaron knows me more then my Mom knows me! I can’t lose that… or can I, I love him!
If any of you have any advice that would be so helpful. Thank you all.
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August 1st, 2003 at 12:45 am
My God, Jessica. I feel so bad for you.
If you feel you must stay with this man, and you do love him that much, I think you may have a hard road ahead. But that doesn’t mean that things can’t improve. It will take hard work, but not just from you. He has to commit to learn about respect. He has to commit to treating you as his equal.
What stinks is that you are going to have to be the one to give him a wake-up call. For instance, when he says that his body is all yours and you feel that he wants you to say that your body is all his, maybe you could say something like, “I don’t want your body to belong to me. I want your heart to be mine and I want you to share your body only with me, but your body belongs to you. My heart is yours, and I don’t want to share my body with anyone but you, but my body belongs to me.” Or something like that?
You are in a very tough situation. Love shouldn’t hurt. Love is a VERB. That means that love is actions, not feelings. Love is respect, consideration, laughter, kindness, affection, and so on. If he says, “If you love me, you would do this,” perhaps you can flip that around and point out that if he loves you, he would respect you and wouldn’t ask you to do things that you aren’t comfortable with.
I believe you said you were 19. You are so early in your relationship! And your life. That’s okay! I’m not going to tell you that at your age you don’t know what you want, because when I was your age, I had a baby and got married (I’m 30 and we are still happily together). It’s not a path I’d recommend to people, but it can work. The thing is, Jessica, if he feels that he owns you before you are married, then he will feel even more that way after you get married. It is important that he knows that you are committing to a life together, to love him, and he is doing the same. But you are not giving up control over your own self or your own body.
I do not think I could be with a man who would feel that he owns me or can do whatever he wants with me. I don’t have the patience to teach a man to respect my body. I believe that it is his job to understand that you are just as special and wonderful and independent as he is. You have as much of a right to happiness as he does. You have as much of a right to do or not do what you want as he does. With sex at least, he doesn’t seem to understand this right now.
Unfortunately, this means that if you want to be with him, you are going to have to teach him to respect you. I am not sure how to do this, but I think a place to start would be to stand up to him. If he cannot handle this and says that you don’t love him because you have wants and need respect, or he says FINE or whatever, what does this tell you? What does it mean if he can’t be troubled to show you, the woman he loves, simple human respect? To me, the primary action of love IS respect. Without it, I don’t feel loved.
Jessica, I imagine you will get several people posting to you. I hope you don’t feel like we are ganging up on you. We aren’t judging you, but we are trying to help, because you sound so in need of sympathy and advice. I really feel for you, and I am sure others do too. I hope you will think about what we have to say for your sake, and so you can have a happy marriage. The thing is, sometimes people are raised a certain way. Like many boys are raised to believe that when they get married, they should be in charge of their wife, and that their wife will owe them certain things, like sexually. But I really believe that those men will be happier if they learn to have an equal relationship. It’s not fun to be treated as if you owe someone something, and I also don’t think it’s really very good to feel that people owe you things. It doesn’t make people feel close to be in a relationship where one person is “over” the other person. Closeness comes from being friends and equals, from feeling like you are always on the same side.
I wish you the best of luck!
This comment was written by Tishie.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2003 at 12:50 am
Just a quick observation to Jessica from my own experience. I know that you feel like nobody can love you the way your fiance does and that if you break it off nothing better can come along. I felt like that for the better part of 10 years. When I called it quits I was shattered. But you know what? 8 months later I found someone much better. There is an old saying “Time heals all wounds.” It sucks (and it doesn’t), but it is true to a great extent. Your descriptions make it sound like a train wreck waiting to happen. That makes me think you can see where this is all heading. Don’t waste a decade if you can avoid it. Hey, if you guys can get counseling and work things out, great. But remember, there can be other relationships.
It’s OK, you can tell me to shut up now. That I don’t know what I’m talking about. I agree completely.
This comment was written by Jake Squid.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2003 at 12:50 am
Jessica, you can’t change Aaron. You can love him, but loving people doesn’t change them. People change themselves, but only if they really want to. It’s sounds like Aaron has chosen not to change; just to promise to change.
You deserve to be treated well, Jessica - not just some of the time but all the time. Never doubt that. You deserve to be treated well, every day, every hour, without exception. Write that down somewhere where you can pull it out of your pocket and reread it often - because it sounds like you sometimes forget it.
If Aaron can provide that for you, that’s wonderful - you should marry him and have a wonderful life together. But if he’s not willing to change (and not just make promises), then he’s not really ready for married life.
But he won’t change if you don’t give him a reason to change. I’m not saying you should leave Aaron. But you have to be willing to leave him if he doesn’t start treating you well. If you’re not willing to leave him, what motivation will he have to ever change?
This comment was written by Ampersand.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2003 at 12:54 am
One more thing:
I was in a very serious relationship for a few years before we broke up and I later met the man I married. I felt a lot like I think you do now. I didn’t feel like I could ever be without him, or find someone who loved me like he loved me. But I want to tell you that if you ever decided to break up with Aaron, you will find love again. Someone will love you as much — and I believe much more than he does! I know it’s hard to imagine right now, but it happened to me, and I know other women and men who went through that too. If you break up and let yourself have time to heal and gain strength in yourself, I believe that you could fall in love with a man who would understand right away, without you having to teach him that you belong to you.
I’m not saying you have to break up with him. I’m just saying that you do have options. You can work on things with him. But if things don’t work out, you WILL find love again. My experience has been that it gets better each time. :)
And listen! I don’t know you, but just from these couple of posts, I care about what happens to you. I can tell that you are a very sweet, caring person! Just in two posts, I’ve come to care about what happens to you. I have no doubt that someday in the not-distant future, another man would love you deeply.
Good luck, Jessica.
This comment was written by Tishie.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2003 at 1:06 am
I’m afraid that there is no way I can guarantee that there is a way that you and Aaron can remain together if you want to not be abused. It’s a possibility — I will give you that — but it’s a lot of work. And the problem is that the work is mostly on his end, so if he’s not willing to do the work, then there’s not much you can do short of either leaving him or succumbing to his abuse. And I fear that you will find that the abuse will only get worse after you are married and living together.
Now, from what you have told me, it sounds as though the abuse has been “only” sexual abuse up to this point. The problem is that his behavior is a textbook example of abuse, and I have no doubt that the abuse will escalate and worsen after you are married. (And even if it remains sexual abuse, it is still abuse, and something you don’t deserve to live with.)
There are a couple of sites I’d like to point you to. The first is an article on domestic violence that provides a checklist of abusive behavior. Read it and be completely honest with yourself. If you see anything in there that reminds you of your own relationship (and from you’ve written I can point out a few of them on my own), you are in an abusive relationship. You should also read the Profile of a Domestic Abuser, and, again, you must be honest with yourself when reading it.
Next, take a look at the Wheel of Power and Control. All of these behaviors are abuse — he does not have to engage in all of them to be considered abusive. If he engages in any of them, he is abusive.
Now, those are the definitions of abuse. But that doesn’t necessarily explain how you can still love him, does it? No. Well, that becomes a lot more complicated. The fact is, an abuser is never abusive all of the time. In fact, when he’s not abusive, he’s probably one of the nicest, sweetest, most charming men you’ve ever met. That’s the part you fell in love with, I’m sure. The problem is, of course, that you can’t love only part of him — the abuse is a part of him, too. And that’s the hardest thing a person has to come to terms with.
People who don’t understand abuse often wonder why she stays. Well, there are a myriad of reasons — and not one of them is because she is “stupid.” He tells you that he is sorry — and you believe him. Why do you believe him? Because you love him and want to believe him. (It often becomes a tautology — you believe him because you love him. You love him because you believe him.) It doesn’t make you “stupid” to believe him — in fact, he might even believe it himself (or, maybe he doesn’t, and he just says it so that he can get you to drop the subject). But, unfortunately, whether he believes it himself or not, it’s not enough.
The fact is, the apologizing is simply one part of the Cycle of Abuse. This is the stage often referred to as the “honeymoon stage.” Sometimes the honeymoon stage can last as much as 2 years, sometimes 2 hours. One thing is for sure, the longer the relationship goes on, the shorter the honeymoon stages will become.
So, how can you know when he means it? After he has sought treatment. He needs to change, and that change takes a lot of work, and a lot of willingness. He cannot do it on his own. He has learned his behavior from somewhere, and simply unlearning it is even harder than learning it. He can sign himself up for a group counselling session (these are often called “anger management courses”) in which he can confront his behavior and learn to change it. These sessions are not always successful — but the only way these sessions will help is if he admits that what he has done is abuse and wants to change.
I wish I could give you a way that you could change him. But I can’t. I wish I could tell you about some magical cure. But I can’t.
What you need to do is postpone the wedding (November is very, very soon). You need to do this for your own sake, and for the sake of any relationship you hope to have with him in the future. You need to tell him that you are postponing the wedding, and will not re-set the date until he has dealt with the problem. If he tells you that he doesn’t have a problem, or doesn’t need help — that is a sign that not only is he unwilling to change, but that he doesn’t respect you.
If he is willing to postpone the wedding and seek help, then there is a very good chance that you will have a very bright, happy, and loving future in front of you. If he is not, it is a sign that he doesn’t respect you as a human being — and that’s a huge warning sign.
But, you must also remember — there are people in this world who will love you for you. Who will treat you with the love and respect you deserve. You deserve nothing less. Remember that. You are young, if this relationship does not work out, there will be hundreds of opportunities in front of you, all better than this one. (Of course, you also have to work on your own self-esteem. You must learn to be confident and love yourself — until you do, you will not find someone who does truly love and respect you. A person will only love you as much as you love yourself. It may sound trite, and it may sound like pop-psychology, but in this case, it’s also true.)
If you want to work on this relationship, do it, by all means. But make sure that he is doing the work, too — not just you. And you have to be firm. You cannot cave in — or he will never change, because he’ll know he doesn’t have to.
This comment was written by bean.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2003 at 1:21 am
You know, I do know that postponing the wedding is something you probably don’t want to do. It’ll probably be one of the hardest things you’ve ever done. You’ve probably already got a place rented, and dresses picked out, and photographers and florists lined up. And you don’t want to have to let all the guests know what’s going on behind the scenes — cuz it’s very embarrasing. I do know this. Please don’t think that I’m suggesting this willy-nilly with no concern for your situation.
But, I think you have to realize that you have to do something for yourself. You have to take care of yourself and demand that you be treated the way every human being deserves to be treated. And that won’t come by marrying him in November, I hate to say. By agreeing to go ahead with the wedding, you are essentially letting him know that you will cave, and that he can get away without changing. He needs to know that you will not accept anything less than 100% respect and dignity. That if he wants to marry you, he must change, he must work on himself and the relationship.
And the fact is, if you marry him before he does that work, he probably never will. He’ll know he doesn’t have to. And it will become a lot harder for you to get out of the relationship — not only because of divorce, but because of what marriage means to you.
This comment was written by bean.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2003 at 8:32 am
Thank you everyone.. . I’m on my way out of town until Wed. I printed out your responses so I can read them on my way down. I feel very helped by this site and love - thank you all for taking your time and I will get back to all these asap when I get home!
This comment was written by Jessica.This is really hard and confusing on me and I’m glad I have some type of support.. . I don’t feel as alone in this anymore.
Thanks.
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August 1st, 2003 at 9:26 am
Bean wrote: “You know, I do know that postponing the wedding is something you probably don’t want to do. It’ll probably be one of the hardest things you’ve ever done….”
This is an amazingly wonderful bit of advice (well, the bit before it too). And those 2 sentences are so incredibly true. Before my 1st marriage I thought about calling it off or postponing it. But I didn’t for all the reasons that you list. Embarrasment, cost to my parents, but most of all shame. Looking at it from 14 yrs away I can see that the shame wouldn’t have been what I feared and that I would have been much better off for doing it. I don’t know if I could have postponed it even w/ this sort of advice given to me at the time, but FWIW I agree wholeheartedly.
From where I sit, Bean’s advice has been spot on. She gives fiance the option of which way to go. It is not just a “run like hell” speech. The acknowledgement of the possibility, but incredible difficulty, of success is really good. I want to second (or is it third? fourth?) the assertion that a person is not stupid for traveling the road into an abusive relationship. It can happen to anyone. Ah, Bean, if I’d only known what you are saying in ‘89.
This comment was written by Jake Squid.Report this comment to the moderators
August 5th, 2003 at 3:37 pm
Did the study exclude respondents from states which exclude married couples from rape statutes? For example, in California, rape is defined so as to exclude nonconsensual sex between a husband and a wife, meaning that a husband cannot “rape” his wife. Several other states do the same, IIRC.
As for anecdotes, my wife likes it when I wake up her up in the morning with (oral) sex. Sometimes she wakes me up with sex, too! Better than breakfast in bed! ROTFLMAO!!!
This comment was written by Big Tex.Report this comment to the moderators
August 5th, 2003 at 9:38 pm
Big Tex,
I’m not arguing with you, because I don’t know you or your wife, but are you sure she likes that? I know a lot of men think women like that, but many of us don’t. They might go along with it, but later feel disgusted. I’ve had this happen in relationships and have also had this type of discussion with a several women as I mentioned earlier in the comments. Some women don’t like the idea of someone playing with their unconscious body and don’t like the idea of someone thinking that they have a right to do sexual things to them while they’re not awake. This is one of those situations where there’s a contextual issue… it’s contextually different when a man is woken up with sex than when a woman is (because women must constantly fight for people to acknowledge that our bodies belong to us, not men, not even our husbands, because husbands DO often rape wives, and so on). Many women may like being woken up that way by someone they trust, but there are many who also have this pesky thing about wanting to have the opportunity to either accept or decline each and every offer of sex (oral or otherwise), one at a time, prior to the act.
Anyway, unless she’s specifically said so, you might try asking her how she feels about it. If she’s specifically said she likes waking up that way, have fun. :)
This comment was written by Tishie.Report this comment to the moderators
August 5th, 2003 at 9:50 pm
Big Tex, your quotes around the word “rape” give me the willies. I hope you’re not trying to imply that the idea that a man can rape his wife is invalid, or that the act of rape only deserves the name (and the offensive connotation) if it’s enshrined as illegal in the criminal code.
Also, I don’t think anyone here is necessarily trying to say that people can’t, or shouldn’t, wake each other up with sex, provided that everyone consents and enjoys it. Obviously, though, some people do *not* enjoy it, and continuing to press the issue in that case is *not* OK (or loving).
And certainly one could argue that having sex with someone while they’re asleep (ie, not deliberately waking a person up with playful stimulation, but instead just climbing on and going for it, irrespective of whether they wake up or not) is an entirely different issue altogether and does strain the definition of consent.
This comment was written by Stefanie Murray.Report this comment to the moderators
August 5th, 2003 at 9:50 pm
That is not to say that some men do not like being woken up that way for the same reasons that some women don’t like it.
This comment was written by Tishie.Report this comment to the moderators
August 5th, 2003 at 10:01 pm
FTR, the information stated here by Big Tex is simply false. Whether he willingly lied, or is simply ignorant of the actual laws, I don’t know — but regardless, he’s wrong. It is now a crime in ALL 50 STATES AND THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA for a man to rape his wife (and, if that wasn’t clear enough — yes, California is included in that). The laws vary from state to state as to whether spousal rape is treated (and prosecuted) the same as other forms of rape or not, and what sorts of barriers exist in reporting and prosecuting spousal rape, but the fact remains that there are still laws in ALL states that make this a crime.
As for waking a spouse by seducing her/him — if the people in question find it enjoyable, then have at it. There is nothing in any law (or what anybody has stated here) that makes consensual sexual acts wrong or illegal. Just as laws against rape do not make the act of consensual sex illegal or wrong. I’m not sure why this is so difficult for some people to understand. I honestly don’t know if these people are really that stupid, or simply unwilling to deal with reality, or simply grasping at straws, or what. But, arguments like Big Tex’s are nothing but red herrings which have nothing to do the issues at stake in this thread.
So, ignore him and let’s move along with the thread. Thank you.
This comment was written by bean.Report this comment to the moderators
August 6th, 2003 at 8:09 am
bean, you are the one presenting false information. Here is a direct quote from the California Penal Code:
“CALIFORNIA CODES
PENAL CODE
SECTION 261-269
261. (a) Rape is an act of sexual intercourse accomplished with a person not the spouse of the perpetrator, under any of the following
circumstances:”
You see? NOT THE SPOUSE OF THE PERPETRATOR.
Hopefully you’re either man (or woman) enough to publicly apologize after making your false smear attack against me.
This comment was written by Big Tex.Report this comment to the moderators
August 6th, 2003 at 8:10 am
Tishie, yes I am certain that she likes it. Any other questions of a personal nature, email me, please. Thanks.
This comment was written by Big Tex.Report this comment to the moderators
August 6th, 2003 at 8:32 am
This is a serious matter, NOT a game. Why don’t you quote the following section as well?
“California Penal Code § 262. Rape of a spouse; elements; application of S 800; report requirement; conditions of probation; fines, payments, or restitution
(a) Rape of a person WHO IS THE SPOUSE OF THE PERPETRATOR [emphasis mine] is an act of sexual intercourse accomplished under any of the following circumstances:
(1) Where it is accomplished against a person’s will by means of force, violence, duress, menace, or fear of immediate and unlawful bodily injury on the person or another.
(2) Where a person is prevented from resisting by any intoxicating or anesthetic substance, or any controlled substance, and this condition was known, or reasonably should have been known, by the accused.
(3) Where a person is at the time unconscious of the nature of the act, and this is known to the accused. As used in this paragraph, “unconscious of the nature of the act” means incapable of resisting because the victim meets one of the following conditions:
(A) Was unconscious or asleep.
(B) Was not aware, knowing, perceiving, or cognizant that the act occurred.
(C) Was not aware, knowing, perceiving, or cognizant of the essential characteristics of the act due to the perpetrator’s fraud in fact.”
And it goes on. Obviously, you are the one who should “publicly apologize”, not only to bean (who you would know is a woman if you only bothered READING this blog), but to the other readers, as well as rape victims, for being so dishonest, to say the least.
This comment was written by Jimmy Ho.Report this comment to the moderators
August 6th, 2003 at 2:48 pm
Big Tex,
If you don’t want me discussing your marital oral sex habits on the blog, you probably shouldn’t bring it up with a big knee-slapping laugh. And again, if she hasn’t specifically said, “I like it when you sexually fondle me while I’m unconscious” or something similar, then you can’t be sure she does like it. Physically responding upon waking doesn’t count. That’s all I was saying, not only for your benefit, but for the benefit of other men who may be reading this blog and aren’t aware that many women don’t like this behavior. The best bet is to ask a woman if she would like something like that. If she says yes and you proceed at a later date, I would suggest that you also check with her later in the day after she is fully awake to be sure that she still likes it. Consent can be removed at any time, remember?
Regarding Bean (a woman): she wasn’t smearing you. She was correcting your misinformation.
This comment was written by Tishie.Report this comment to the moderators
August 6th, 2003 at 3:41 pm
Thank you everyone. I have been talking w/him during my vacation and got to really relax and think everything over. I’m not going to call off the wedding… I know that if I voice how I feel he will come around sometime, I know it! I will give him another chance - this may seem really stupid to some of you but it’s hard for you all to understand because you all don’t know him…
This comment was written by Jessica.thank you for all the advice!!!!!!! This advice and information will be what I will use if he is trying to go back to that person he really is not :)
Have a great rest of the week and evening!
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August 6th, 2003 at 7:19 pm
Big Tex, seeing as how Jimmy Ho has already posted the California law that makes spousal rape illegal — and, therefore, proving you wrong — I’ll be the one expecting an apology.
Jessica — I do wish you the best of luck. You’re right, I don’t know him. But, I based on the information you have given, he does sound an awful lot like the partners of women I have worked with. I do hope that things work out for you, I really do. I hope that he can finally admit that what he has been doing to you is wrong, and I do hope that he is willing to change his behavior. Calling off the wedding is obviously not the way you want to go, I can understand that. But, perhaps you can at least look into couples counseling.
This comment was written by bean.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2003 at 10:31 am
Yes, couples counseling is what we will do. We have taked befor on how we wanted to do that just so we grow stronger together but I don’t think he thinks that I’ll bring up the issue that sometimes he treats as an object instead of someone he is in-love with. I know he is in-love with me, he has a problem something and I think with taking things out on me sexually he feel more incontrol or better… then he feels really bad. I’m not a stupid girl but I will admit that it is hard not to fall into the “cycle of abuse”. . . Thanks bean!! I will get through this.
This comment was written by Jessica.- Jess
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August 8th, 2003 at 8:12 pm
I will first explain to all those that read this that I am a male. I was a jock and I still have that mentality. I am heterosexual. I believe this is important because many people think a guy like myself can’t be in touch with my emotions. I don’t subscribe to that theory. I realize men and women are physically and emotionally different. We need each other to survive. Frankly, I had never heard of this type of sexual abuse until a friend of mine finally broke down and asked me if it was normal for a husband to have sex with his wife while she slept. I’ll never forget the look on her face when she asked me this and I’ll never forget how it made me feel. My goal in writing this is simple: I hope that men that have done this to you will read what I write and stop acting like insensitive “monsters” and I hope to get across to all you women that have or are having this problem that it is not your fault and you can end it.
I am not a trained counselor, rather a trusted friend. The person that this has happened to is aware that I am writing this and has the same hopes I do. First, I’ll tell you what I know and believe. What you men are doing to your wives or girlfriends is absolutely wrong! It is selfish and yes, you are committing a crime…it’s called rape. I don’t care how you feel about it, I don’t care what your friends think about it, you are having sex without consent and that’s rape. Worse than that, you are hurting the person that trusts you to protect them. If you don’t stop now, you may never save your relationship with this person. There is nothing wrong with her…it is you that has the problem. It’s not just sex; it’s everything in your life with this person. You are not to possess your wife. You are to love her, cherish her, offer her your help. If having an exciting and fulfillig sex life is something you desire, then that’s normal! Your spouse wants that too, you are the one preventing it from happening. I am going to let you in on a secret…your spouse’s sexual desires are probably just as strong as yours, they are just for a different reason. Most men want sex to fulfill a physical desire, women want it to fulfill an emotional desire. If you can figure out how to fulfill her emotional desires, the sex will take care of itself. You first have to have an exciting and fulfilling relationship. My friend’s spouse didn’t know simple things about her like what her favorite meal was or her favorite color. He never ever attempted to fill one of her emotional desires yet he felt it was okay to steal her dignity, her self-respect, and her love for him so he could simply fulfill his physical desires. She has since told me that he made her feel like a prostitute. Stop thinking with your penis men, and start thinking with your heart. You should love your wife more than you love your children. If you do not have children, then you should love your wife more than you love your mother. Would you do to them what you are doing to your wife? Everyone, even you, believes that would be a crime; what you are doing to your wife is also!
My friend told me this story and I was sick to my stomach. On the times she consented after being made to feel guilty for not wanting to she “endured” the sex act with her fists clinched and tears running down her face. He once noticed the tears and asked if she was okay, she answered out of fear that she was. I could not believe it when she told me that he continued having sex with her until he was done. Many times she would bleed afterward. Physically, she said she could hardly stand the pain. Emotionally, the scar got deeper and deeper. She went to bed afraid every night. The times he did it without her consent, he waited until she went to sleep. Usually this was after she had said “no”. It always woke her up and he never knew it. She later told me that it was emotionally easier for her if he did it when he thought she was asleep because he was taking it and she was not participating. Emotionally it hurt worse on the times she consented because she was giving herself to him…only it wasn’t out of desire it was out of fear and guilt. Okay guys, stop for a minute and just imagine how loving your wife would be with you after this the next morning? If she hit you in the head with a bat it wouldn’t be enough in my opinion. What if this girl I’m referring to was your daughter? Is this the kind of love you want her to have? I hope not.
Love and the act of making love is deep. It’s about caring for your partner. Trust me, if you want “great sex”, you can get it, but it has to start with trust and respect. She has to trust you and respect you…outside the bedroom. If so, guys she will take care of you in the bedroom in ways you’ve only dreamt about. Think about how you want to be treated…she wants that too! Women like to talk; they like to hear your stories. They like you to hear theirs. It’s actually fun. Share dreams, share ideas, look at the moon together. Pick flowers, cook together, tell jokes, write notes to each other, write naughty notes to each other if you want, but show an interest outside the bedroom and trust me, you’ll have the greatest relationship that you can have and it will include a fulfilling sex life also. But it won’t happen if what you say or do isn’t genuine. If you have to fake it, then you’re not doing it for the right reasons. If all sex is to you is satisfying a physical desire, then go to the bathroom instead and take care of it yourself.
Ladies, if you are reading this then you have an issue with this abuse. Get the man that is doing this to you and make him read this. If he won’t, then he dosesn’t care about you and yes, you should consider leaving. You should also talk to someone and continue to talk to them until you get it straight in your mind that you are okay. Seek out people that love you because you are you. Keep reading this web site and ask questions of these women. You are not wrong and this is not your fault. When my friend first confronted her husband about this after many years, he said he thought she liked it and it was her fault because she never stopped him. Men, get real! No one should have to tell you to stop abusing them. Men and ladies, you have a choice to make. Sex is not a physical act only; it is an emotional expression of love towards your mate. You can do this several other ways; a pat on the back, doing a chore she ususally does, sharing a bottle of wine, talking and listening, waking up early and taking the kids to school so she can sleep in, a card on one of the other 364 days, not just her birthday, and yes, it is also expressed with intercourse. Not only are you making life miserable for your spouse, you yourself are missing out on the most rewarding experience you’ll never get any other way…it’s called love.
My friend is doing great now. She chose to leave and “get out of the hole” that she was living in. She is a beautiful person inside and out and it tears my heart out to know that she has gone through this. I am also deeply sorry for every one of you women that have endured this abuse.
This comment was written by Brett.Report this comment to the moderators
August 9th, 2003 at 12:27 am
Brett, I appreciate your message, and I’m very glad to hear that your friend is doing much better now (and am truly sorry that she ever had to endure such a thing).
Your main points are incredibly valid and important, and I thank you for writing them.
However, I have to say, I can’t agree with your assessment of the differences between men and women and the differences between their desires. Yes, men and women are different — in the same way that people are different. There are some men who are significantly more similar to me than some women are (as well as vice versa). There is nothing, nothing, that is more false than to believe that all women are alike and all men are alike, and all women and all men are different. Similarly, I have news for you — many women desire sex for physical reasons. We do have a libido, we do enjoy sex for more than just emotional reasons. Similarly, there are men who actually desire the emotional aspects of sex.
As I said, your basic point is true, and I am glad you took the time to write it. But, please, don’t turn this into a paternalistic speech wherein you put women on a pedestal, where we are weak and overly-emotional. Women do enjoy sex for the physical componant. Being asleep during (or at the beginning) is not only denying us the emotional aspects, it’s also denying us the physical aspects of mutual feel-good love-making. (Not to mention that it removes our humanity from our body and turns us into little more than blow-up dolls.)
This comment was written by bean.Report this comment to the moderators
August 13th, 2003 at 1:19 pm
I am at the end of my rope with my husband. I have been waking up in the middle of him pleasuring himself at my expence for nearly 8 years. It is as if he has a completely separate personality during the night. I have confronted him about it on the few times when I have awakened in the middle of his acts, and each time he promises it will never happen again. He no longer sleeps in the same bed and says he won’t until I am ready. But what will stop him from continuing? During daylight hours he is a very loving and respectful husband and father. In fact, other women I know often comment that they wish their husbands were more like him.
This comment was written by ren.I just don’t know what to do. Can anyone recommend something?
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August 13th, 2003 at 8:39 pm
Ren,
Your experience sounds a lot like mine. Everyone thought my husband was the best husband and father they had ever met. But behind closed doors, he was very controlling and at night he didn’t care if I told him no to sex. He waited until I went to sleep and he pleased himself with me. I also thought he was a loving husband. He was good to the kids, he didn’t yell at me, he is a very hard worker, he didn’t drink, he didn’t hit me. In my eyes this was loving. It’s not! The truth was that he gave me no attention or love at all. There is no way a husband can really love his wife during the day and rape her at night. It can’t be both ways. If he really loved you and respected you he would never dream of doing that to you. It is so confusing and hard to believe. It’s taken me 10 years to figure it out and I still find it hard to believe at times. He has a serious problem and he needs to realize that.
This comment was written by Mary.Report this comment to the moderators
August 14th, 2003 at 3:55 pm
Mary and Ren,
This comment was written by Brett.I am very sorry that you have this experience. I hope what I wrote helps women understand that all men are not like your husbands and you are not wrong for what happened or how you feel towards your husbands. I wish they would read what I wrote and it made sense to them. Contrary to what Bean responded with, I do not wish to put women on a pedestal. I wish couples would put their relationship on a pedestal. Respect was the topic. Sex without consent is not showing respect in any way. Sex while you sleep is total disrespect and certainly worse if you’ve asked or pleaded with him not to do it. You’ll do the right thing.
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August 14th, 2003 at 3:55 pm
Mary and Ren,
This comment was written by Brett.I am very sorry that you have this experience. I hope what I wrote helps women understand that all men are not like your husbands and you are not wrong for what happened or how you feel towards your husbands. I wish they would read what I wrote and it made sense to them. Contrary to what Bean responded with, I do not wish to put women on a pedestal. I wish couples would put their relationship on a pedestal. Respect was the topic. Sex without consent is not showing respect in any way. Sex while you sleep is total disrespect and certainly worse if you’ve asked or pleaded with him not to do it. You’ll do the right thing.
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August 15th, 2003 at 7:08 am
Brett,
Thank you for your comments and concerns. It certainly helps to have a male’s view on all of this.
Mary
This comment was written by Mary.Report this comment to the moderators
August 15th, 2003 at 8:35 am
What’s the matter, Tishie, can’t I change my mind at any time? Are you going to act like a rapist now and discuss my marital sex habits without my consent?
At any rate, my wife has made it clear that she enjoys waking up to sex. The fact that some sexually repressed women don’t enjoy it doesn’t negate the fact that she does. You need to get over it, already.
This comment was written by Big Tex.Report this comment to the moderators
August 15th, 2003 at 4:51 pm
Oh, yay. Every sexist cliche possible, with the added benefit of the guy speaking for the little lady. Don’t like something? You’re not somebody with a different viewpoint—you’re ‘repressed’, because of course women only come in two speeds, hot and cold. The term is flung about contemptuously, because we all know that only guys with guns commit rape. And, finally, we’re told to ‘get over it’. Words cannot express.
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
August 18th, 2003 at 8:51 am
Mary and Brett,
Thank you both for your cpncerned comments. I realize now that I am not the only one out there.
What is so frustrating to me is that he is loving and gives me a great deal of attention. He has never had any problems showing affection anywhere. Other women are envious and wish their spouses were willing to be so open about their feelings in front of others. He has never and would never hit me. He wouldn’t even consider calling me any distasteful name. With the exception of what happens during sleeping hours, we have a wonderful marriage.
But that is a big exception, and all the love and attention in the world doesn’t make up for it. I used to enjoy his open signs of affection. Now they make my skin crawl. Two weeks ago, I handed him my wedding ring. He removed his as well, gave it to me, and said that I should return it to him when I felt he deserved it. Not a day goes by that he doesn’t apologize for his actions, but he is not pressuring me to return things to the way they were. But what’s to stop it from happening again? What’s changed? I’m not ready and willing to take chances.
ren
This comment was written by ren.Report this comment to the moderators
August 19th, 2003 at 5:37 pm
Ren,
I gave my husband too many chances. He promised me that he wouldn’t do it again and he did…more than once. I know that every person is different and maybe he will never do it again, but what if he does. What will that do to you? Can you handle it? I just about couldn’t. At one time I thought that my life, the way that it was with him, wasn’t worth living anymore. I never tried to do anything to myself nor would I for my children’s sake, but when your spirit is stripped away from you by something like this it is hard to see that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. My husband and I are going through a divorce right now and it’s miserable. He still doesn’t think that what he did was wrong and that I am the one with the problem. We lived in a small town (he is still there, I’m not) and everyone there thought and still thinks that he was the best husband in the world because that’s the type of person he portrayed himself to be. And he is so good at it that I believed it also. He never yelled at me or hit me. He “seemed” to be very caring. I bought into it because I didn’t know any different. I thought I was getting love and affection because I was not being yelled at or getting hit and he was such a “great guy”, so I figured it was my fault. I know now that it wasn’t my fault. When a man has sex with his wife without her consent, it is called rape. You didn’t give him consent! In fact you told him no and to stop doing that to you while you were asleep. It’s complete disrespect and violating. A person cannot disrespect someone to that degree at night and have respect for them during the day. You need to sit down and really think about what he gives you emotionally. I once asked my husband what he gave me emotionally and the best he could come up with was “I let you go to work”. Letting someone do something is not emotional support and love. Does he make you feel like no matter what you do or how bad you screw something up, he’ll love you anyway? Does he get up with you at night if you are sick? Does he get you little gifts that only you two would understand? Do you feel like he is your best friend and you are his? Do you value his opinion and he value yours? Maybe you should suggest that he go to some kind of therapy because something isn’t right with him. What he is doing to you isn’t normal. I once asked my husband if he would ever do that to one of the kids and he answered “absolutely not” in a very disgusted way. I then told him that that should be the same reaction he would have if someone asked him if he would ever do that to his wife. Good luck to you! I hope this helps.
This comment was written by Mary.Report this comment to the moderators
August 20th, 2003 at 11:34 am
Hi All… Thanks for having these discussions on the web. I’ve been searching for some answers on this subject for years… only from a different perspective… because I’m the guy who committed this terrible act - once - to my wife more than 14 years ago… and no matter how much I’ve apologized, or what I’ve ever tried to do or be for her since then, she’ll never seem to be able to forgive me… our relationship is so damaged… It’s wrong what I did. I know that. How can I help her get past that and try to develop a more normal relationship again? I’m a good person who made a terrible mistake. I’ve confessed my sin and run from everything that supports such evil perspectives and we’ve begun counseling in the last couple of months. But it’s so hard. It’s so hard to be rejected in most every physical way… I love her so much. I want to love her more. I want her to love me again in natural, physical ways again. Any thoughts for the “other” victim in this situation?
This comment was written by Monster.Report this comment to the moderators
August 22nd, 2003 at 6:15 pm
I think the fact that you searched and found this sight tells me that at least you are aware that you did something wrong and you want to find out more about it. From the victim’s perspective of rape, I can tell you that it is very hard, if at all possible, to trust the person who did this to you again. Sex is the most intimate and most vulnerable act that you can have with someone else and when that is taken from you without your consent, it’s hard to ever want to give to that person again in that way. I can forgive my husband for what he has done, but that doesn’t mean I would ever want to be intimate with him again. I went to bed terrified every night that he was going to rape me after I went to sleep. He promised me he wouldn’t do it again, and he did more than once. The man that you are married to should be the one to protect you and make you feel safe, not terrify you. This is only my opinion. The one that counts is your wife’s. She’s the only one who feels the way that she does. Everyone’s situation is different.
This comment was written by Mary.Report this comment to the moderators
August 25th, 2003 at 7:11 pm
Hey Bean and all. . . my future husband found some of my e-mails from this site on complete acedent! I think this is a good thing? He totally felt bad and said that I will never have to feel that way again and that he is SO sorry. I guess this really showed him how much it hurt me…
This comment was written by Jessica.talk to you soon :) Hope all is well
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August 26th, 2003 at 9:47 pm
Jessica,
But he shouldn’t need to read this site. He should listen to you, since that’s what matters. What happens when you have other issues? Will you need to search the Web for other posts to express yourself.
Things like sex with someone who’s asleep really depends on the person. If YOU feel violated, then it IS a violation, no matter what other people think. “Violation” is one of those things where if you feel violated, the it is a violation.
This comment was written by AGuy.Report this comment to the moderators
August 28th, 2003 at 11:30 am
Aguy,
This comment was written by Jessica.So what are you saying? It was not good for him to read this site? He said that it really hit home when he read it and he feels horible and that he will make it up to me. I could tell in his voice how bad he feels. He said that he feels like one of those bad boy friends that girl freinds write about. . . I’m glad that he feels bad for his actions because it really hurt me! If he does it again THEN I will talk about leaving him! He comes home tomorrow from being gone for 2 months from North Carolina. We will then get to talk face to face (which is something I DON”T WANT TO DO) I’m scared. Anyway write back soon.
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August 29th, 2003 at 5:09 pm
Jessica,
No, I’m not saying he shouldn’t have read this site. But I am saying that you need to consider what will happen in other situations.
No two people are completely the same, and, consequently, two people can never understand each other completely. There will be issues in the future where you will feel hurt by something he does, but he will see nothing wrong with his actions. This doesn’t mean either of you are wrong–just that you are two different people.
In those situations, he needs to say something like, “I don’t completely understand why what I did hurt you, but I do understand that though we may be one in body, we will never be one in thought. So I have no problem with not doing that anymore in the future.”
Likewise, there will be situations where the roles are reversed. You will do something that hurts him, but you won’t feel like you did anything wrong. In those situations, you need to find a compromise you can both live with.
This comment was written by AGuy.Report this comment to the moderators
September 1st, 2003 at 3:36 pm
AGuy ~ That was prefect advice! Thanks!
This comment was written by Jessica.Report this comment to the moderators
September 1st, 2003 at 3:36 pm
AGuy ~ That was perfect advice! Thanks!
This comment was written by Jessica.Report this comment to the moderators
March 18th, 2005 at 5:52 am
My wife has never had a problem with me awakening her with sex. I love to get awakened by sex myself… If you have a problem physically with your partner don’t get married you guys something is wrong.
This comment was written by Lotus.Report this comment to the moderators
March 18th, 2005 at 1:58 pm
Well, thanks for speaking for your wife. That sure sends the right message.
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
March 19th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
Monster,
First, keep up with the counseling. You have a lot of years to undo.
Second, it would help if you stopped considering yourself “the other victim.” You’re not a victim. You’re hurt, and upset, and you want to make things better. But you’re a victim of what exactly?
Jessica, if you’re afraid to talk to your husband face to face, that’s a problem all by itself.
This comment was written by mythago.Report this comment to the moderators
September 12th, 2006 at 11:46 pm
If this is even marginally correct, it’s a whole freaking lot. The Danger to Men vs The Danger to Women Rape prevention vs theft prevention” While it’s in the threads of those posts, I’m don’t remember how clear it’s made that most women are raped by people they know
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