Comments on: Body Integrity Identity Disorder

By: steel legs

steel legs — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 06:45:38 +0000

I have wanted to be paralyzed for the most of my life . I grew up in a family where my father was physiaclly violent toward me .I began to pretend making fake leg braces when I was 9 years old..this was inspired from seeing a boy in my school who had polio and had hkafo braces up to his chest. It seemed like everyone gave this polio boy a lot of attention ,and soon I began to daydream about how lucky he was !
I didn’t see the suffering aspect of having polio or being in leg braces .I only saw the fact people treated him very kindly.
My fathers violence caused me many problems..eventually my school work began to suffer ,my parents locked me up in my room after school for the next few years until I was 13 or so..thinking it would make my school work improve ?
While I was supposed to be studying ..Instead I went into my leg brace dream world .I tried strapping my legs back with my fathers leather belts .I finally found the greatest thrill from strapping myself up in my wooden braces ..wishing I had polio .
I would masturbate until I was completly ‘free’ of this life ! Often wishing to kill myself and to escape my parents ..the brace desires got more intense .
If my sexuality hadn’t gotten connected to leg braces all this would have gone away ? When I got home after school it became a sexual need to wear leg braces..I look back and see being locked away in my room made this desire a daily need as it was my secret escape from reality of a denied childhood ?
When I was a teenager -I saw a girl in high school in leg braces slowly going up a flight of stairs..watching her lift her heavly braced legs up the stairs revealed her braces ..and watching her taking each step made me very sexualy excited !
So by the time I was 15 ..seeing women in legs braces became a sexcual obcession .I mean it wasn’t like I was going to do anything wierd..All I wanted was to get to know wthe girl . It was a big taboo to be attarcted to a cripple in those days ..my mother used to tell me never to be involved with a cripple ?
Wierd..but true !
How terrible it would be for my parents if the girl I liked was crippled by polio !
When I was 17 I finally left my family ..and wearing ‘fake’ leg braces was put on hold as this obcession seemed to make survival very difficult . I then began dating normal women and having a real girlfriend made me forget most of my strong needs to be crippled.
My need to wear braces waxed and waned for many years..until ?
When I was in my 40’s I saw a web sight full of leg brace pictures at the local library ! I began to go there often to look at brace pictures ..and after a few years all I could think about was getting some leg braces for myself ..to satisfy my secret sexual needs to be crippled .
Everything revolved around the need to wear real leg braces . I must say I also lead a fairly normal hetro-sexual life as well ..I liked women who were not crippled and was married a few times.
I eventually bought a pair of kafos then hakfos ..and have been using leg braces regularly these past 5 years .It was such a big relief that I finally got myself a real set of braces.
Its caused some problems ..but its a lot better wearing braces for real then fantazing all the time over some pictures .
Realizing that many people in society would condenm such a action ..I live my life as a cripple in secret.
In my ‘coming out’this has finally given my need to wear braces some validity and being seen in public wearing real braces no longer is a problem for me its normal for me..to be crippled .
There were times I wish I was paralyzed as all this ‘pretending wasn’t enough ..
I wanted to stab myself in the spine ? I have read in other web sights how some individuals end up wanting to kill themselves ..because they can’t be paralyzed .
Wanting to be paralyzed is as much a form of BIID as not wanting your legs !
Since I have started to wear leg braces..my BIID urges to paralyze myself have been reduced .
Yet for other’s ..needing being paralyzed is a life and death struggle..
It would be great individuals could get medical help ..I think you have to draw the line that the individual in question must not become a welfare case . What about the femeral nerve ..cut this and your legs are paralyzed without all the problems of paralysis from spinal damage ?
BIId ..is a mental condition that one can not change ..its just like people who want a sex change operation ..you get it from birth so why not allow BIID suffers to get the same medical help as transexuals can now have ,and be accepted as gays now are ?

By: curiousgyrl

curiousgyrl — Tue, 31 Oct 2006 15:45:37 +0000

I think its important to find out if any treatments effectively change the minds of people with this problem before we run around advocating amputation as the best possible treatment. I liked the comparison with suicide, though disability is obviously not the same thing as death. Its just that suicide DOES effectively treat depression. And maybe for some people it is the only thing that does. But that doesnt mean that the medical establishment or society in general condones suicide as a first-line treatment for sucidial depression.

I hope somebody is doing drug trials or something; if they found something effective, the internet would be a great way of publicizing it to people that are currently not seeking mental health treatment. Why woudl people seek such a thing if they are facing humliation and there is no known treatment for the disorder?

By: Agnostic

Agnostic — Mon, 30 Oct 2006 23:47:58 +0000

The difference between transsexualism and biid is that transsexuals can still function, post-surgery, in society just as well as they could before. Being a man, or being a woman, isn’t a disability–lacking a limb is. (One may hold differing opinions about whether society should structure itself to allow those missing limbs to participate more fully, but it’s unquestionable that lacking a limb prevents you from doing many things).

Being dissatisfied with your body and wanting to change it so you’re satisfied isn’t a mental illness. Wanting to injure or disable yourself, or kill yourself, is.

(Full disclosure: At some point in the past I was suicidal, and damn right I was mentally ill back then, rather than making a choice about my own body).

By: Claudia

Claudia — Mon, 30 Oct 2006 23:10:57 +0000

As a transsexual, I would like to post my feelings on this matter. Firstly, transsexualism is not just about the operation, in fact some transsexuals never have surgery - hormones do most of the alteration. Also, transsexualism is not about necessarily “becoming” a woman or man, that person is already a woman or man before transitioning, and simply changes the body to match their inner identity, but is not necessarily simple as conforming to what they feel is “better” or “more ideal” for them, but allowing them to realises themselves and their innate gender identity, irrespective of general personality. While their bodies are not physically completely male or female, this is not the object of the transsexual, but is to achieve peace to match their inner self with the outer self and the role they play in society. Also, would a castrated man or a woman with hysterectomy be no longer considered to be their birth sex? Gender is far more than reproductive organs. However, as cisgendered people cannot understand the feeling of transsexuals, I cannot understand the need for arm amputation, and I cannot see any possible positive effects, yet the search for inner identity seems similar, so if it causes significant, life threatening distress (as it can with transsexuals), then perhaps treatment is the only solution.

By: nik

nik — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 00:35:05 +0000

What strikes me as most depressing about this discussion is the fact that so many people feel they have the right to make moral judgements about the lives of others without ever having LISTENED to what those others might have to say. Rather than reproducing dangerous and offensive stereotypes (for example, of wannabes as people who desire to become quadruple amputees) why not find out whether such representations are accurate, and if they aren’t (and based on my research they definitely are not) then it might be worth doing a bit of soul searching about what it is that leads one to make generalisations that are disrespectful and ultimately dangerous. If we all reject outrightly everything we don’t personally understand and/or experieince, then what kind of world will we find ourselves living in? Rather than making pronouncements about BIID or about transgender issues, my ethical responsibility is to listen to and respect those whose lives are intimately effected by these things. In doing so, we all might learn something.

By: Philo

Philo — Tue, 04 Apr 2006 04:08:21 +0000

mooglar Writes:

You see, though we aren’t aware of it, the brain has a body map within it, created by neural connections, that helps it to manage its “assets,” if you will. In phantom limb syndrome, the brain still has a body map including the lost limb and fails to update itself to match the physical state of affairs. and begins interpreting the lack of signal as pain. The brain fails to adjust to the fact that the limb is not going to respond to it. But, in a novel therapy now being used, when an amputee puts their other limb (hand, whatever) in a mirrored box and looks at the reflection, which, when flipped, now looks like the lost limb, and flexes it, the brain believes that the lost limb has been flexed and the pain diminishes. The brain accepts feedback from the eyes that the limb is working as if it were direct feedback from the limb.

In the case of BIID, I suspect something similar is happening. I suspect that BIID has something to do with the brain failing to correctly account for some limbs in its body map. So, the limbs may function, but the part of the brain that tells you, “You have two arms and two legs” fails to include some of those limbs. The body map connects to emotional centers in the brain. If the body map does not include certain limbs, then the emotional centers will not be activated to have an emotional (”I own this limb”) response to that limb and it therefore seems alien to the person.

mooglar, I hope you can find the solution for your depression, (as I have done) so you can at least be around long enough to write a few books…
You may not be a doctor, but you should be writing books that doctors are required to read.

I’m curious to know if any studies involving Kirlian photography have been done that relate to this disorder. Something similar has been done with plants. Leaves and other plant structures, when photographed using Kirlian methods, having sections removed, still record the full, uncut plant upon the film. Not speculating upon the source of the energy recorded, the physical evidence is that some degree of “awareness” exists for the “limb” that is no longer there. There is no reason to deny that the possibility of a reversal of the condition. To offer a hypothesis: If one with BIID were to be photographed by Kirlian methods, would the image be missing in the location of the “alien” limb?…

By: Glaivester

Glaivester — Wed, 02 Nov 2005 17:10:43 +0000

I say fine, but don’t let them qualify under the Americans with Disabilities Act later.

If this young woman with her arms removed finds she can’t get a job, the workplace shouldn’t be forced to give her special treatment so she can do the job without arms. It was her choice, and she should face the consequences.

By: Joshua

Joshua — Wed, 02 Nov 2005 04:31:55 +0000

This subject was actually just covered on Nip/Tuck in which a man pleaded with the plastic surgeons to amputate him. This guy was willing to pay any price to get rid of his leg he even tied his leg and walked with crutches. The man even went as far as to shoot his leg in hopes it would have to be amputated. This a strange and interesting disorder.

By: bean

bean — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

Just testing to see if it will actually work this time

By: bean

bean — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

OK, weird.

Anyway, as I said before:

I think these people have read Geek Love a few too many times.

I do hope there’s serious psychological counseling beforehand (as with SRS) before amputation is allowed.

And, as with SRS, I strongly believe that there are more societal factors than any sort of inherent biological factors in determining this desire for amputation.

By: David Barrett

David Barrett — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

I’ve never understood “sex-change” operations in the first place, particularly when viewed as an actual change in gender.

Such things are impossible. A man who undergoes such an operation is still a man when it is over, only without a penis and with a mockup of female genitalia.

I have a suspicion that many psychological problems are being “validated” and accepted. I’ve recently encountered depressed people who justified cutting themselves on similar grounds.

Whether you like it or not, Body Integrity Identity Disorder is a desire to have oneself mutilated.

By: Scott Martens

Scott Martens — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

Having social constructivist tendencies makes me sympathetic to the notion that creating a label can easily “create” a condition to replace what might otherwise have been a more amorphous malaise. Sometimes, that’s the whole point in creating a label. Back when there was no label for AIDS, people just died of various respiratory infections without effective diagnosis or treatment. Alcoholism would be entirely untreated if it was still diagnosed as a moral rather than a medical condition.

The issue for me isn’t so much “are these conditions socially created?” as “what normative standards should we use in treating them?” Even if we conclude something is socially constructed, that doesn’t make it any less real.

I’ve never really come to any conclusions about gender reassignment, and if I’m going to be totally honest about it, I suspect the whole subject makes me a bit uncomfortable. The same thing really does apply here. Are people happier or better able to conduct their lives after gender reassignment/voluntary amputation? Do they seem better adjusted? I don’t know, although I’ll bet the answer is “some are and some aren’t” in both cases.

By: Ampersand

Ampersand — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

Scott, as I’ve argued in the past, the evidence that exists seems to indicate that sexual reassignment surgery (SRS) is generally quite successful - that is, people are happier or better able to conduct their lives post-SRS.

There’s anecdotal evidence that amputation leads to positive outcomes for people with BIID, but no studies have yet examined the question.

By: John Isbell

John Isbell — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

The idea that identifying a condition can make it more prevalent, as they argue, makes good sense to me. I think any person who really wants a limb chopped off has every right to have that feeling, and indeed to seek to act on it. OTOH, I think any doctor who has taken the Hippocratic Oath (as they all have) should refuse point-blank to perform the surgery. First, do no harm. So you have a Catch-22.
Pet peeve: blueheron should write “phenomenon.”

By: jd

jd — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

What I find particularly fascinating about BIID is the increasing separation of “identity” from the corporeal…as well as the increasing acceptance of the maleablity of the body in relation to an “identity.” From piercings to tattoos to eating diorders to BIID and gender reassignment surgery the body is becomming a canvas for expression (healthy or otherwise…a detemination I will leave up to those with a claim to moral understanding).

I am drawn back to some of Foucault’s more interesting stuff about the body as an object/subject of power in our (read western) culture. I don’t have the time to flesh out the anyalysis and write a book about it but it seems an interesting avenue to persue.

Also if people with BIID go through with amputations and then use prosthetic limbs we can add a discussion of cybernetics to this intellectual blender as well (see Donna Harraway)…i.e. chosing a cybernetic lifestyle etc.

I am also curious about any gendered components to BIID…prevalance in men vs women etc.

Wow! super fascinating. Thanks for the post and getting my brain running (even before I finished my coffee!)

By: Amy Phillips

Amy Phillips — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

John- Should a doctor who has taken the Hippocratic Oath also refuse point blank to chop off the penis of a man who feels deep down that he’s really meant to be a woman, and that he won’t be happy as long as he has a penis? The point is that there are different types of harm, one of which is psychological. I don’t know anything about this disorder, but if it turns out that having legs really does make these people miserable, that may very well be a bigger harm. You’re suggesting that a doctor should routinely substitute his judgement of what is best for a patient in place of that patient’s judgement. If that were applied across the board, doctors would be in a position of making many people’s most personal decisions for them. A doctor would be morally obligated under your view to refuse a tubal ligation to a woman he thought would be “harmed” by not having more children. Doctors could withhold potentially lifesaving medicine from dying patients on the grounds that such medicine can be dangerous and have side effects, and those side effects are a harm. The point is that we can’t empower doctors to decide what’s best for people in their lives. They can, and should, counsel patients on best medical practices and likely outcomes of various courses of treatment, but the ultimate decision must be the patient’s, so long as the patient is competent to make it.

By: Scott Martens

Scott Martens — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

Ampersand, I have a policy about making my mind up based on someone else’s statistical analysis: I try not to except under certain very restrictive conditions, at least one of which must be present.

1 - I actually understand the field pretty well and am equipped to be critical of the study’s methods and subjects themselves.

2 - I have extensively read the research on the field, having gone out of my way to find the most partisan and critical work in the area. If, after exhausting the bibliographies, one side is clearly more convincing than the other, I will probably come to a conclusion.

3 - The study reinforces something I already feel fairly strongly about, and agrees with my previous conclusions.

4 - I have to come up with some answer, or I really want to stake out a position for some reason other than actually caring about the issue.

(Most people tell me that the first two seem like eminently good ideas, but the third suggests that I favour studies that agree with my prejudices and the fourth suggests that some of the opinions I express may be tactical. This is true. However, I’ve never met anyone who didn’t do just that. I have, however, met a lot of people who won’t admit to it.)

I don’t have a strong opinions on this topic nor do I know anyone - to the best of my knowledge - who is contemplating radical body alterations except for the purposes of treating less controvertial conditions. So, options three and four are out. And options one and two require me to do some hard work.

In principle, I agree with the idea that what people do with their bodies is largely none of my business. In practice, I have made enough exceptions to that principle that I am beginning to question if I should still hold it. I believe in mandatory vaccination, even for children and even against the will of the vaccinee. I believe that certain practices can be so destructive that people shouldn’t be allowed to even voluntarily have them, because it encourages the practioners, like female genital mutilation.

So, I suspect I’m going to stay undecided for the time being.

You may be right and I am not disagreeing with you. In fact, your position will probably tend to tilt me towards a more positive opinion of gender reassignment, because when I lack an opinion of my own I will tend to take seriously the opinions of anyone who has a strong opinion and who I usually agree with anyway.

However, it isn’t quite open and shut yet. Having carefully laid out why I haven’t come to a conclusion, hopefully communicating that I am not trying to offend anyone since I know I’m treading on sensitive ground here, let me muddy the waters a bit. I hope you will pardon me for shifting the topic a bit more towards gender reassignment before suggesting that the same thinking applies to voluntary amputation.

I have a slightly famous distant aquaintance (actually a friend of a member of my family and I think a distant relative) who was an involuntary recipient of gender reassignment shortly after birth. There was a documentary about him that is fairly well known in the social sciences and I suspect in the transgendered community. It was called “As Nature Made Him,” and it is difficult not to conclude from it that gender is less changeable than one might think.

One could well look at this and suggest that gender reassignment is a attacking a symptom of a more complex phenomenon rather than actually treating a condition. I don’t know if this is the case and I am not claiming that it is, just that it is a position that I can’t dismiss. The same could be true of BIID.

By: Larry Lurex

Larry Lurex — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

One of my favourite authors has postulated an “End of the World” button, hidden in the back of a cave with a warning sign “DO NOT TOUCH THIS END OF THE WORLD BUTTON”. He says the paint wouldn’t even have time to dry befor…

Similarly with these operations. We do it BECAUSE WE CAN and for no other reason. In the world today, we believe there are no barriers to what we want or can expect. Want to be a new sex? Fine. Double amputee? I’ll take two. As human beings, we do not stop to ask *whether* something should be done. Perhaps Philosophy should be compulsory in all schools worldwide.

By: Prometheus 6

Prometheus 6 — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

JD’s initial statement

What I find particularly fascinating about BIID is the increasing separation of “identity” from the corporeal’

puts this in perspective for me to some degree. I’ve long noted what looks to me like an actual distaste for physicality in western culture. Maybe it’s too much science fiction on my part, but it seems folks believe evolutionary improvement involves less body and more mind. The whole Start Trek thing, puny bodies under huge heads, evolving into a giant floating glowing brain that eventually turns to pure energy… sarcasticly stated but I think truly reflective of the idea of identity as essence that lives in a fleshy case that can (and possibly should) be shed.

Whew.

On the specific topic, though, every difference in degree can be escalated until it becomes a difference in kind. If SRS made a person less functional as a member of society (which is the only place I have an investment in the outcome of such stuff) I’d object to it. Since I’ve seen for myself that SRS can resolve whatever issues the person has that makes them seek or need it, I don’t object as long as counselling, etc. continues to come first.

Now that we’re reworking thngs to make life more livable for the disabled, there’s actually little additional cost to society in allowing voluntary amputation.

Yet voluntary amputation makes a person less physically capable in addition, I suspect, to playing into, rather than resolving, some nasty control and/or dependancy issues. So I just can’t get with it.

By: PG

PG — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

Transsexuality is an attempt to conform to society’s expectations, and thus very unlike this amputation business.

It would be helpful if we could figure out how much the desire for amputation is connected to sexual fetishizing.