Passing thought on the Illinois Rape Law and being “unable” to stop
| August 4th, 2003Some folks have commented that men - and especially teenage boys - cannot be expected to be able to stop intercourse once they begin. There’s a point of no return, they argue, yadda yadda yadda.
Consider this counterexample: Imagine John Z. of the much-discussed “In re John Z” California case. He’s in the middle of the sex act; his victim is ineffectually attempting to pull away and saying wishy-washy things like “No, I have to go home now” and “if you really liked me, you’d respect me and not do this.” But John Z. can’t be expected to stop, because that’s beyond a teenage boy’s ability, right?
Okay, now imagine that in the middle of the scenario above, John Z’s mother walks into the room and says “John Z., what are you doing?”
Is it imaginable that John Z. would be “unable to stop” under that circumstance? That he would continue for another minute - or another five minutes?
Of course not. If something that really made him want to stop - like his mom watching - had entered the situation, John Z. would have jumped off Laura and yanked his pants on so fast he might have set off a sonic boom.
That’s the standard men (and boys) should be judged by, in my view - is this a situation where they could stop, if they genuinely felt it was critically important to stop?
August 4th, 2003 at 2:25 pm
Can we term this the “American Pie scenario”? :)
This comment was written by Elayne Riggs.Report this comment to the moderators
August 4th, 2003 at 2:36 pm
And now I’m thinking they had to trim just a couple of thrusts off that infamous scene from the first to keep their R rating.
This comment was written by --k..Report this comment to the moderators
August 4th, 2003 at 3:07 pm
Point of No Return
This comment was written by Hellblazer.It’s simply amazing what otherwise rational people think of as reality. Claiming a “point of no return”, inherent in male sexuality - particularly in teens and young men - is simply a joke. Ampersand provides an excellent object lessin in…
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August 4th, 2003 at 3:58 pm
I’ve appreciated your comments on rape, Amp. Last spring, when I mentioned to my Intro. to Women’s Studies class (at a women’s college) that men are able to refrain from or stop sexual intercourse just as easily as women are, they were shocked. And I was shocked at their response. Many of them believed that “after a certain point” men can’t stop, or that when men are really turned on, it causes them great physical pain not to have intercourse. “Not any more pain than it causes you,” was my response. Mouths were hanging open, and more than one young woman was going to call her boyfriend after class.
This comment was written by Cleis.Report this comment to the moderators
August 4th, 2003 at 4:17 pm
I feel really silly admitting this now, but like the girls in Cleis’ class, the only reason I _don’t_ believe the whole “point of no return” stuff is because my first serious boyfriend was good enough to explain this to me (he gets many “decetn guy” points for that). The whole “I couldn’t stop” idea is very very present in our culture. I wish more people would write posts like this - thanks for the great illustration!!
This comment was written by Maida.Report this comment to the moderators
August 4th, 2003 at 4:26 pm
There is a point of no return for orgasm. This is not the same as a point of no return for a sex act. Perhaps this is where some people are confused?
This comment was written by Jake Squid.Report this comment to the moderators
August 4th, 2003 at 4:26 pm
As a 40-year-old guy, the theory that guys have troubling stopping is complete and total bulls**t. For one thing, he can pull out and still have an orgasm, for God’s sake. Never let anyone try that line. But I would say it could take anyone, male or female, a moment to register a request then: like about three seconds tops.
This comment was written by John Isbell.Amp, I think you pretty much nailed it.
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August 4th, 2003 at 4:39 pm
Freddy Krueger couldn’t have disembowled that argument more completely.
This comment was written by Prometheus 6.Report this comment to the moderators
August 4th, 2003 at 4:52 pm
It never fails to astound me when this “unstoppable” meme (or its corollary–that men want sex more and more often than women) rears its ugly head. I can’t help but think that the vast majority has somehow been gulled by the oldest teen-boy whine in the book:
“But if you don’t suck it, they’ll turn blue and fall off!”
This comment was written by --k..Report this comment to the moderators
August 4th, 2003 at 7:42 pm
Wow. I hadn’t thought of it in that way before but, yeah, Amp just clobbered that arguement. Congrats. I suspect that there’s a cartoon in that.
This comment was written by PinkDreamPoppies.Report this comment to the moderators
August 4th, 2003 at 8:26 pm
consider it similar to getting caught masturbating. getting caught might be disappointing, but what are the consequences “finishing your business” with mom standing in the doorway?
This comment was written by ms lauren.Report this comment to the moderators
August 4th, 2003 at 10:15 pm
boom time for rape: the whos and whys of rape culture
This comment was written by feministe.there is much discussion on alas, a blog about rape: the impending kobe bryant trial, anonymity for both parties in rape cases, the new illinois law in which consent can be detracted during the sex act, and a marked decrease…
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August 5th, 2003 at 6:20 am
Normally I don’t comment on rape because (thankfully) I don’t know much about it. But I know a little about sex, and pretty much any response after a woman says no except “look, I’m really sorry” and an immediate cessation of any action is at least bad manners and (depending on the severity) could be construed as rape. Any macho bullshit that interferes with this simple truth is just that: bullshit
This comment was written by Larry Lurex.Report this comment to the moderators
September 12th, 2004 at 2:52 pm
Hey Amp,
This comment was written by Michael Ngo.I disagree with you completely. When I’m with my girlfriend and she stops while we’re already in the act. It gets me really angry and she doesn’t understand why and she just calls me a dog and thinks that I’m a sex-crazed psycho. When in reality, it just puts me in a REALLY bad mood if I start but yet can’t stop. In fact, I’d rather her not even get me all aroused up for sex, if she was just going to stop it half way through anyways. I honestly would have no arguement to her if she told me ahead of time that she would be pulling a retarded stunt like that. Cause then I wouldn’t even bother myself to get excited and to expect that kind of action.
That’s just my two sense. Thanks.
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September 12th, 2004 at 3:47 pm
Michael,
In my opinion, if she ask you to stop, you must stop.
You do have an option other than ignoring her and continuuing. If your girlfriend does things that make you angry, and you fight all the time, might I suggest you break up and not torture each other?
This comment was written by lucia.Report this comment to the moderators
September 12th, 2004 at 4:05 pm
Why on earth would anyone date a woman who regularly stops sex in the middle of things and then calls her male partner a dog and a sex-crazed psycho? If they were real, that is.
This comment was written by mythago.Report this comment to the moderators
September 12th, 2004 at 4:41 pm
Well, we don’t want real life to get in the way of a good cultural myth.
This comment was written by Dan J.Report this comment to the moderators
September 12th, 2004 at 5:06 pm
I doubt that it’s real. Hell, I doubt this guy’s had sex.
This comment was written by Amanda.The “guys can’t stop” thing always puzzled me. I can’t even imagine what it would be like to ask someone to stop and he wouldn’t.
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September 13th, 2004 at 7:27 am
Yeah, Amanda. Unbelievable.
Anyway, if men can’t immediately stop intercourse, who exactly WAS it that invented the “withdrawal” method of birth control?
It’s not like (if it were truly biologically impossible) women could just make something like that up out of nothing.
This comment was written by funnie.Report this comment to the moderators
October 15th, 2004 at 11:47 am
Have these people who claim they can’t stop never been introduced to their right hands?
This comment was written by zuzu.Report this comment to the moderators
October 15th, 2004 at 6:27 pm
Yes, I wondered why they couldn’t carry on on their own (as it were) back in September.
This comment was written by Andrew.Report this comment to the moderators