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	<title>Comments on: Elizabeth Anderson defines egalitarianism</title>
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	<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/08/11/elizabeth-anderson-defines-egalitarianism/</link>
	<description>Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Cleis</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/08/11/elizabeth-anderson-defines-egalitarianism/#comment-3374</link>
		<dc:creator>Cleis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Elizabeth Anderson, a student of John Rawls, is brilliant and humane. 

Amp: In the first paragraph you quote from Anderson, that should be Iris Young, not "Iris Voting," who writes about the five faces of oppression. 

Anyone who wants to take a look at Young's groundbreaking article (and still one of the few philosophical pieces written about oppression) can find it in Iris Young's book: Justice and the Politics of Difference (Princeton University Press, 1990).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elizabeth Anderson, a student of John Rawls, is brilliant and humane. </p>
<p>Amp: In the first paragraph you quote from Anderson, that should be Iris Young, not &#8220;Iris Voting,&#8221; who writes about the five faces of oppression. </p>
<p>Anyone who wants to take a look at Young&#8217;s groundbreaking article (and still one of the few philosophical pieces written about oppression) can find it in Iris Young&#8217;s book: Justice and the Politics of Difference (Princeton University Press, 1990).</p>
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		<title>By: Camryl</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/08/11/elizabeth-anderson-defines-egalitarianism/#comment-3375</link>
		<dc:creator>Camryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/08/11/elizabeth-anderson-defines-egalitarianism/#comment-3375</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Such unequal social relations generate, and were thought to justify, inequalities in the distribution of freedoms, resources, and welfare.&lt;/i&gt;

I've been defining egalitarianism as the struggle for universal equality before the law, which doesn't quite cover it because there are non-legal forms of systemic oppression.  (E.g. There's no law saying captial punishment should be applied disproportionately to African-Americans, yet it is a systemic problem.)

I've always hated the "classic" Vonnegut story, "Harrison Bergeron" (http://penguinppc.org/~hollis/personal/bergeron.shtml) because it's all about the Egalitarianism = Homogeneity straw man.  Had he addressed that point and then moved on to a substantive exploration of egalitarianism, I wouldn't take it for an annoyingly enthymemetic assertion that all inequality stems from the "natural inferiority" of the oppressed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Such unequal social relations generate, and were thought to justify, inequalities in the distribution of freedoms, resources, and welfare.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been defining egalitarianism as the struggle for universal equality before the law, which doesn&#8217;t quite cover it because there are non-legal forms of systemic oppression.  (E.g. There&#8217;s no law saying captial punishment should be applied disproportionately to African-Americans, yet it is a systemic problem.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always hated the &#8220;classic&#8221; Vonnegut story, &#8220;Harrison Bergeron&#8221; (<a href="http://penguinppc.org/~hollis/personal/bergeron.shtml" title="http://penguinppc.org/~hollis/personal/bergeron.shtml">penguinppc.org/~hollis/personal/bergeron&#8230;</a>) because it&#8217;s all about the Egalitarianism = Homogeneity straw man.  Had he addressed that point and then moved on to a substantive exploration of egalitarianism, I wouldn&#8217;t take it for an annoyingly enthymemetic assertion that all inequality stems from the &#8220;natural inferiority&#8221; of the oppressed.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/08/11/elizabeth-anderson-defines-egalitarianism/#comment-3376</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/08/11/elizabeth-anderson-defines-egalitarianism/#comment-3376</guid>
		<description>I only wish it were a straw man, Camryl, but far too many highly intelligent people - Bernard Levin in "A World Elsewhere" for instance - have fallen for the notion that when Jefferson wrote "All men are created equal" he meant "all men are created the same," and as the latter is absurd they've concluded Jefferson was an idiot.

Maybe they should start with the assumption that Jefferson was not an idiot, and try to figure out what he might have meant.  In fact Jefferson was righter than he knew - it is now, in western culture, such a self-evident truth that all people are created equal, that these folks can't figure out that that's what Jefferson meant, and they think he must have meant something else.

The Anderson quote explains the difference more clearly and elegantly than anything else I've seen.  Thank you for posting it, Amp.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I only wish it were a straw man, Camryl, but far too many highly intelligent people - Bernard Levin in &#8220;A World Elsewhere&#8221; for instance - have fallen for the notion that when Jefferson wrote &#8220;All men are created equal&#8221; he meant &#8220;all men are created the same,&#8221; and as the latter is absurd they&#8217;ve concluded Jefferson was an idiot.</p>
<p>Maybe they should start with the assumption that Jefferson was not an idiot, and try to figure out what he might have meant.  In fact Jefferson was righter than he knew - it is now, in western culture, such a self-evident truth that all people are created equal, that these folks can&#8217;t figure out that that&#8217;s what Jefferson meant, and they think he must have meant something else.</p>
<p>The Anderson quote explains the difference more clearly and elegantly than anything else I&#8217;ve seen.  Thank you for posting it, Amp.</p>
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		<title>By: Ampersand</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/08/11/elizabeth-anderson-defines-egalitarianism/#comment-3377</link>
		<dc:creator>Ampersand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/08/11/elizabeth-anderson-defines-egalitarianism/#comment-3377</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the correction, Cleis. (The dangers of using text-recognition software!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the correction, Cleis. (The dangers of using text-recognition software!)</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Lurex</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/08/11/elizabeth-anderson-defines-egalitarianism/#comment-3378</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Lurex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/08/11/elizabeth-anderson-defines-egalitarianism/#comment-3378</guid>
		<description>Ahh, that has cleared something up for me.  I could never understand deference to the upper classes nor racism.  But to say "all men are created the same" makes me realise that to a stupid person, these could be tenable positions.  A false proposition implies any proposition.

It is going to take time before we realise that we all are the same - in the sense that we are all human, all alive and have loves and favourite foods and favourite colours.

Just because I like blue, and you like red, does that make you better than me?  No, they are equally valid selections.  Perhaps more philosophy should be taught in schools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahh, that has cleared something up for me.  I could never understand deference to the upper classes nor racism.  But to say &#8220;all men are created the same&#8221; makes me realise that to a stupid person, these could be tenable positions.  A false proposition implies any proposition.</p>
<p>It is going to take time before we realise that we all are the same - in the sense that we are all human, all alive and have loves and favourite foods and favourite colours.</p>
<p>Just because I like blue, and you like red, does that make you better than me?  No, they are equally valid selections.  Perhaps more philosophy should be taught in schools.</p>
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		<title>By: Pacific Views</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/08/11/elizabeth-anderson-defines-egalitarianism/#comment-3379</link>
		<dc:creator>Pacific Views</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/08/11/elizabeth-anderson-defines-egalitarianism/#comment-3379</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Wednesday Reading&lt;/strong&gt;
Calpundit finds a genuine (no, really) compassionate conservative, and notes that both Dowd and Freidman had something interesting to say today. Dowd regarding campaign weblogs, and Friedman regarding Iraq, without his former protection of rose-colored...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Wednesday Reading</strong><br />
Calpundit finds a genuine (no, really) compassionate conservative, and notes that both Dowd and Freidman had something interesting to say today. Dowd regarding campaign weblogs, and Friedman regarding Iraq, without his former protection of rose-colored&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Pacific Views</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/08/11/elizabeth-anderson-defines-egalitarianism/#comment-3380</link>
		<dc:creator>Pacific Views</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2003/08/11/elizabeth-anderson-defines-egalitarianism/#comment-3380</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Wednesday Reading&lt;/strong&gt;
Calpundit finds a genuine (no, really) compassionate conservative, and notes that both Dowd and Freidman had something interesting to say today. Dowd regarding campaign weblogs, and Friedman regarding Iraq, without his former protection of rose-colored...
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Wednesday Reading</strong><br />
Calpundit finds a genuine (no, really) compassionate conservative, and notes that both Dowd and Freidman had something interesting to say today. Dowd regarding campaign weblogs, and Friedman regarding Iraq, without his former protection of rose-colored&#8230;</p>
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