Secondly, you need to look at the skill set. you compare completely different skills, then you will also get a gap.

This is where new graduates probably make one of the better test cases. You can compare men and women going into the same types of jobs, with their exam results and get a good idea if there is a problem. Its clear of lots of the other biases that its difficult to remove.

For example, take the law. Is there a significant difference between men and women in terms of starting pay given the same exam results?

Nick

As an example, if a family chooses to pay for their son’s education, but not their daughter’s, this will not impact results gathered through the method you describe, but it will probably impact all of those that Amp listed, to varying degrees.

While this may not be the type of problem that can be legislated, it is a problem and it should be recognized and addressed as much as possible.

A lot of the statistical “biases” you refer to can be catagorized the same way. This is why I think the best way to determine the wage gap is through multiple methods. This not only lets you view the issue from a variety of angles, but it may help to pinpoint the reasons why the wage gap still exists and the ways it impacts individuals and society.

The lifetime earnings of women are clearly less than those of men. If this is related to the difference in work choices that men and women make, it’s relevant to ask if there are policy choices that we could make that would change this.

It will be extremely difficult to solve the most basic component. Most employers will pay more for more productive workers. That is where social policy comes in. If the government in effect subsidizes the expenses to employers related to maternity leave (as a concrete example), then the effective wage difference related to differences in productivity will be smaller. Kids are important. It’s even harder to deal with the impact of people (mostly women) who strongly curtail their participation in the work force for child-rearing. It’s far from clear that wage differences arising from a conscious choice to work many fewer hours for many years can be - or even should be - erased through policy choices.

I’d also note that there are legit grounds to be concerned about the earning and work prospects of working class men, and the increasing evidence that our educational system is not serving boys nearly as well as it is serving girls. But that’s a whole different discussion.

Marc

For example, take the law. Is there a significant difference between men and women in terms of starting pay given the same exam results?

It’s a great measure of starting income, but that’s an exceptionally limited measure of general income. Promotions matter a great deal and if men are promoted more often than women then a substantial wage gap can exist even among people who started out making the same amount of money. Using this measure alone to measure the total wage gap seems useless and naive given that there are currently far more men than women in the highest ranks of government and business.

The studies that included comparisons of “hourly wages among new college graduates just entering the job market” also noted that these jobs were entry level and low-paying.

Marriage and child-bearing influenced wages, with married people (esp. women) and those with children (esp. women) earning less.

One reason for some figures showing a closing of the wage gap in some circumstances is due to the wages of men dropping to come closer to women’s wages.

There is also a race gap - black women and men earn less than white women and men.

Another gap is that some men with only high school degrees earn more than women with a B. A. degree.

The main gap is not so much between men and women but between mothers and others. The responsibilities inherent in raising children taken on primarily by mothers as opposed to fathers results in a huge wage gap.

Nick wrote: ” The longer you have worked in a job, the more money you earn is a general trend. Women who take time off to have children suffer from this, and its not down to any form of discrimination.” This isn’t necessarily true. I believe that there is definitely discrimination against mothers out there. While it is now illegal to ask a prospective employee if he or she is married or has children, the negative bias against families in the workplace persists today. Companies are not family friendly. Most do very little to accomodate the needs of their employees who have families to care for, and that includes those who care for elderly relatives. I don’t think that’s a wise move since (1) these are future productive workers, and (2) worker productivity stands to increase if the workers are not under undue stress. Since it is mostly women and mothers who do the family caretaking, they suffer more from the lack of support than do men and fathers. Lots of mothers return to work while their children are still infants because they have to — they cannot afford to stay home. They may not want to stay home. Whether or not they choose to return to work, the responsibilities mothers take on in caring for children that most fathers today don’t take on reflect the wage gap. Since most companies do not take familial needs into consideration, primary caregiving parents (read moms) turn down longer hours, relocations, and travel. Most CEOs are fathers, but you don’t see many mothers at such a high career level. Most women at such high levels are childless.

In the UK at retirement is standard to buy an annuity. You savings buy you an income for life, no matter how long you live.

Women for the same sum of money get a lower income compared to a man of the same age.

There are moves to make this illegal.

However, if you are a woman, you have a longer life expectancy, and so can expect to receive more money over your retirement than a man in the same situation.

Its the same with people with poor health. They can get increased incomes because they are expected to live a shorter life.

If its fair for someone who is ill, is it fair to discriminate between men and women in terms of income, but not in terms of expected return?

Nick

When I said “conservatives,” I was referring to think tanks like the Independant Woman’s Forum.

Maybe I’m missing something, but as far as I can tell all that info has now been deleted from the DOL WB website. Sheesh.

That’s impressively disturbing and speaks volumes about this administration’s real views.

True — at least in the sense that white women make more (on average) than do black women and white men make more (on average) than do black men. But it’s not true — at least, by some measurements — that white women make more than do black men. It seems that gender plays a more prominent role in pay disparity than does race.

Another interesting aspect is the difference between Black men and Hispanic men’s pay vs. Black and Hispanic women’s pay.

Black men with H.S. diplomas earn more than Hispanic men with H.S. diplomas. However, Hispanic men with Bachelor’s or Master’s earn more than Black men with Bachelor’s or Master’s.
Hispanic women, however, earn less than both Black and White women regardless of education level.

BTW — can’t have a good pay gap discussion without a good discussion on comparable pay (as opposed to simple pay equity).