Comments on: Some Evidence of Discrimination (wage gap series, part 9)

By: --k.

--k. — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

Kudos on a well-done series. Any plans to put this together on its own mini-site, or PDF it for download?

When you climb out from under the wallpaper and paint, that is.

By: Tishie

Tishie — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

This is my favorite one, I think! It’s just so irrefutable, but maybe that’s also because I’m combining it with the other eight. :D

By: Sara

Sara — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

To add to this post’s comments about women in symphony orchestras, here’s a great article that describes shocking gender bias in orchestras in Europe.

Some excerpts:

In a cross-national study, gender researchers Allmendinger and Hackman established percentages for the representation of women in orchestras in the following countries: 36% for the USA, 30% for the United Kingdom, and 16% for both East and West Germany. They also found that women were concentrated in lower-paid orchestras, and that they were notably less present in major orchestras. Far from leading the way, gender integration in orchestras is lagging behind the progress being made in the rest of society.

These social forces allow some of Europe’s most preeminent musical institutions to categorically forbid membership to women. One is the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra, which openly states that ethnic and gender uniformity gives it aesthetic superiority. The orchestra is an excellent case study, because the prevailing gender culture of Austria registers little protest to these views.

-snip-

Five years later, in 1983, these seating concerns were brought to life by clarinetist Sabine Meyer, who became the first woman to enter the orchestra, and who was hired only through the intervention of General Music Director Herbert von Karajan. In spite of its “masculine composure,” the orchestra exploded into turmoil, and after nine months, she left. It also ended Karajan’s 40-year relationship with the orchestra. Meyer suffered extreme harassment, such as seating herself at rehearsals only to have the men slide their chairs away from her. Their “emotional unity” was disturbed. The German musicians’ union supported the orchestra, noting the all male ensemble had the “democratic right” to choose whom it wanted.

It is now thirteen years later, and the orchestra has 121 men and six women in full-time regular positions-the women being five tutti strings and a harpist. There are also four women with probationary contracts.10 In the many interviews the orchestra gave during the Sabine Meyer incident, the men expressed views about uniformity identical to those of the Vienna Philharmonic. For example, some claimed that it is impossible for women to really play in unison with men because they have different bodies.

http://music.acu.edu/www/iawm/articles/oct96/osborne.html

By: acm

acm — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

editorial query: is there supposed to be a verb in the first sentence of this post?

what evidence is there that currently economic discrimination against women in the United States?

just leaves me wondering what I missed…

By: Ampersand

Ampersand — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

Whoops! Thanks for the catch, Acm. I’ve made a correction.

By: Cory

Cory — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

Has there ever been a study that asks questions about negotiating pay? Is it possible that part of the reason for women getting paid less is the fact they accept less? As a man, I believe that women are hurting my profession because they are accepting lower offers. Could they be accepting lower pay because they are bringing in a secondary income? These are just questions that maybe someone should research. I have seen many cases where 30k a year for a woman suits her needs because she is secondary to her husband or equal to her husband (double income) This is not always the case for men. Many men are still trying to earn a living for a family with a spouse at home. If we go up against a female with the same skill set and education that will take lower pay…do the math. So, to all women out there that think your getting messed over…ask for more pay at time of hire. Do the research on how much you really should get paid. Maybe the problem is not exactly discrimination in all cases, maybe its how your playing the game.

By: David P.

David P. — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

I think cory is probably on to something there. Another thing i wonder about is if a woman is hiring into a predominantly male environment (ie: where there are mostly men working at the place, not as in construction or something) if the person who is hiring wouldnt be a little more reluctant to hire a female because by default, shes kind of the odd person out.

By: Yes, Now

Yes, Now — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

Let me tell you about our specials tonight
I’ve always noticed gender descrimination among waitstaff; now, thanks to Alas, a blog, here are some amazing statistics from a study by economist David Neumark: “Male and female job applicants, chosen for similar characteristics, and trained to act in…

By: Keywords

Keywords — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

Discrimination
In the latest in of his excellent series of articles on the gender wage gap, Barry over at Ampersand has made a strong case (as if it needed to be made) for the continued existence of gender discrimination in the work place. Here is an excerpt: What ha…

By: Mad Melancholic Feminista

Mad Melancholic Feminista — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed. 2. I can be confident that my co-workers won’t think I got my job because of my sex - even though that might be true. (More). 3. If I am never promoted, it’s not because of my sex. 4. If I fail in my job or career, I can feel sure this won’t be seen as a black mark against my entire sex’s capabilities. 5. I am far less likely to face sexual harassment at work

By: RudeBarbie

RudeBarbie — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

By: Ann - MySpace Blog

Ann - MySpace Blog — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

competing against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed. 2. I can be confident that my co-workers wont think I got my job because of my sex - even though that might be true. (More). 3. If I am never promoted, its not because of my sex. 4. If I fail in my job or career, I can feel sure this wont be seen as a black mark against my entire sexs capabilities. 5. I am far less likely to face sexual harassment at work than my

By: we can see you

we can see you — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

By: Sassy Red Head

Sassy Red Head — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000