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	<title>Comments on: Some more stuff Amp is reading</title>
	<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/</link>
	<description>Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 07:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: eel</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-94377</link>
		<dc:creator>eel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-94377</guid>
		<description>Add this to your list


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1595230092/103-5449605-0685461?v=glance&#38;n=283155</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Add this to your list</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1595230092/103-5449605-0685461?v=glance&amp;n=283155" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1595230092/103-5449605-0685461?v=glance&amp;n=283155</a></p>
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		<title>By: Yonmei</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-39832</link>
		<dc:creator>Yonmei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:22:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-39832</guid>
		<description>Sorry I missed your link to Card's &lt;a href="http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=yonmei&#38;keyword=Dissecting+Orson+Scott+Card&#38;filter=all" rel="nofollow"&gt;lying piece of bigotry&lt;/a&gt;, but here's my dissection of it anyway, written last year. 

I probably wouldn't have bothered if it had been by any other right-wing homophobic hack, but the fact is I've had so much respect and so much admiration for Orson Scott Card's SF writing over twenty years. And in this one article, he did a considerable amount of damage to that respect - for reasons which I outline in my dissection. 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry I missed your link to Card&#8217;s <a href="http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=yonmei&amp;keyword=Dissecting+Orson+Scott+Card&amp;filter=all" rel="nofollow">lying piece of bigotry</a>, but here&#8217;s my dissection of it anyway, written last year. </p>
<p>I probably wouldn&#8217;t have bothered if it had been by any other right-wing homophobic hack, but the fact is I&#8217;ve had so much respect and so much admiration for Orson Scott Card&#8217;s SF writing over twenty years. And in this one article, he did a considerable amount of damage to that respect - for reasons which I outline in my dissection.</p>
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		<title>By: Raznor</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10524</link>
		<dc:creator>Raznor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10524</guid>
		<description>Is that breakdancing rabbi on the Jew School title graphic your work, perchance?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is that breakdancing rabbi on the Jew School title graphic your work, perchance?</p>
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		<title>By: James D</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10525</link>
		<dc:creator>James D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10525</guid>
		<description>Ugh, O.S. Card pissed me off with that article. I read it several weeks ago on another publication -- I believe it was a North Carolina newspaper. 

I'm not sure how that can be considered an opinion piece worth publishing. I've always thought that opinions don't count without at least *some* backing, and all he has is prejudice. Discrimination much? Sounds like blatant homophobia to me. And to think how much respect I had for the man before this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ugh, O.S. Card pissed me off with that article. I read it several weeks ago on another publication &#8212; I believe it was a North Carolina newspaper. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure how that can be considered an opinion piece worth publishing. I&#8217;ve always thought that opinions don&#8217;t count without at least *some* backing, and all he has is prejudice. Discrimination much? Sounds like blatant homophobia to me. And to think how much respect I had for the man before this.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron V.</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10526</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron V.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10526</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;...every American who believes in democracy should be outraged that any court should take it upon itself to dictate such a social innovation without recourse to democratic process.&lt;/i&gt;

Courts have interpreted laws to give them meaning and have stricken unconstitutional laws for 200 years, since &lt;i&gt;Marbury v. Madison&lt;/i&gt;.

Under Card's reasoning, &lt;i&gt;Brown v. Board of Education&lt;/i&gt; is "judicial activism."  After all, &lt;i&gt;Plessy v. Ferguson&lt;/i&gt; stated that "separate but equal" facilities for Negroes doesn't violate the 14th Amendement....and those people want to be in *our* schools!

&lt;i&gt;We will once again be performing a potentially devastating social experiment on ourselves without any attempt to predict the consequences and find out if the American people actually want them.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;Shelley v. Kraemer&lt;/i&gt;.  &lt;i&gt;Brown v. Board of Education&lt;/i&gt;. &lt;i&gt;Spiuel v. Board of Regents of the State of Oklahoma&lt;/i&gt;.  All initiated potentially devastating social experiments on America without an attempt to predict the consequences and find out if the American people actually want Negroes in our public schools.  Not to mention &lt;i&gt;Loving v. Virginia&lt;/i&gt; and all those quadroons and octoroons and macaroons that decision has produced.  (Sarcasm off, for the very sensitive among us.)

Card goes in about reproductive security, but fails to state why marriage's ideal "calming effect" shouldn't apply to same sex-couples as well.  Card decries heterosexual men's "broadcast strategy of reproduction," yet ignores the fact that same-sex couples are also better child-raisers if a gay man stays at home with his husband instead of going to the bathhouse.

&lt;i&gt;Why would men submit to rules that deprive them of the chance to satisfy their natural desire to mate with every attractive female?&lt;/i&gt;

Substitute "male" for female.  

&lt;i&gt;Because civilization provides the best odds for their children to live to adulthood. So even though civilized individuals can't pursue the most obviously pleasurable and selfish (i.e., natural) strategies for reproduction, the fact is that they are far more likely to be successful at reproduction in a civilized society -- whether they personally like the rules or not.&lt;/i&gt;

You just answered your own question, Orson.  And this is one reason why same-sex marriage is GOOD.  I am assuming that "reproduction" also means "child-raising".

Card says that parents have a responsibility to raise their children to responsible adults.  Undoubtedly, responsible parents are more likely to raise responsible children, and who would you rather have raising a child, a stable and responsible gay couple, or an opposite-sex couple whose prime recreational activity is snorting meth?

Card goes through fundie claptrap about how all homosexuals are the result of sexual abuse, and that heterosexuals are a stigmatized class.  What poppycock.  I've never gone onto Stark Street or in San Francisco and been chased out by a gang with baseball bats yelling "Breeder!! Get out of here, you breeder-ass breeder!"

And his statement that America's military will crumble without conservatives?  Well, I'm tempted to invoke Godwin, but I'll say that an army of GODLESS COMMIES held off a furious invasion of their country by Germany in World War II, sometimes fighting hand-to-hand to gain mere feet in Stalingrad.  

I'm all for same-sex marriage.  My partner and I live in a little bungalow on the po' side of town.  Evidently we're part of the "elite," while a million-selling author swimming in royalties isn't.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8230;every American who believes in democracy should be outraged that any court should take it upon itself to dictate such a social innovation without recourse to democratic process.</i></p>
<p>Courts have interpreted laws to give them meaning and have stricken unconstitutional laws for 200 years, since <i>Marbury v. Madison</i>.</p>
<p>Under Card&#8217;s reasoning, <i>Brown v. Board of Education</i> is &#8220;judicial activism.&#8221;  After all, <i>Plessy v. Ferguson</i> stated that &#8220;separate but equal&#8221; facilities for Negroes doesn&#8217;t violate the 14th Amendement&#8230;.and those people want to be in *our* schools!</p>
<p><i>We will once again be performing a potentially devastating social experiment on ourselves without any attempt to predict the consequences and find out if the American people actually want them.</i></p>
<p><i>Shelley v. Kraemer</i>.  <i>Brown v. Board of Education</i>. <i>Spiuel v. Board of Regents of the State of Oklahoma</i>.  All initiated potentially devastating social experiments on America without an attempt to predict the consequences and find out if the American people actually want Negroes in our public schools.  Not to mention <i>Loving v. Virginia</i> and all those quadroons and octoroons and macaroons that decision has produced.  (Sarcasm off, for the very sensitive among us.)</p>
<p>Card goes in about reproductive security, but fails to state why marriage&#8217;s ideal &#8220;calming effect&#8221; shouldn&#8217;t apply to same sex-couples as well.  Card decries heterosexual men&#8217;s &#8220;broadcast strategy of reproduction,&#8221; yet ignores the fact that same-sex couples are also better child-raisers if a gay man stays at home with his husband instead of going to the bathhouse.</p>
<p><i>Why would men submit to rules that deprive them of the chance to satisfy their natural desire to mate with every attractive female?</i></p>
<p>Substitute &#8220;male&#8221; for female.  </p>
<p><i>Because civilization provides the best odds for their children to live to adulthood. So even though civilized individuals can&#8217;t pursue the most obviously pleasurable and selfish (i.e., natural) strategies for reproduction, the fact is that they are far more likely to be successful at reproduction in a civilized society &#8212; whether they personally like the rules or not.</i></p>
<p>You just answered your own question, Orson.  And this is one reason why same-sex marriage is GOOD.  I am assuming that &#8220;reproduction&#8221; also means &#8220;child-raising&#8221;.</p>
<p>Card says that parents have a responsibility to raise their children to responsible adults.  Undoubtedly, responsible parents are more likely to raise responsible children, and who would you rather have raising a child, a stable and responsible gay couple, or an opposite-sex couple whose prime recreational activity is snorting meth?</p>
<p>Card goes through fundie claptrap about how all homosexuals are the result of sexual abuse, and that heterosexuals are a stigmatized class.  What poppycock.  I&#8217;ve never gone onto Stark Street or in San Francisco and been chased out by a gang with baseball bats yelling &#8220;Breeder!! Get out of here, you breeder-ass breeder!&#8221;</p>
<p>And his statement that America&#8217;s military will crumble without conservatives?  Well, I&#8217;m tempted to invoke Godwin, but I&#8217;ll say that an army of GODLESS COMMIES held off a furious invasion of their country by Germany in World War II, sometimes fighting hand-to-hand to gain mere feet in Stalingrad.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for same-sex marriage.  My partner and I live in a little bungalow on the po&#8217; side of town.  Evidently we&#8217;re part of the &#8220;elite,&#8221; while a million-selling author swimming in royalties isn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: James D</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10527</link>
		<dc:creator>James D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10527</guid>
		<description>(in response to Aaron's post)

&lt;i&gt;Card goes through fundie claptrap about how all homosexuals are the result of sexual abuse&lt;/i&gt;

Well, I was told that if it's not sexual abuse, then it's the WWF/WWE/whatever professional wrestling is called these days. Yes, someone actually told me that makes people gay. 

&lt;i&gt;I've never gone onto Stark Street or in San Francisco and been chased out by a gang with baseball bats yelling "Breeder!! Get out of here, you breeder-ass breeder!"&lt;/i&gt;

That was a hilarious image, even if it's never happened.


&lt;i&gt;Evidently we're part of the "elite," while a million-selling author swimming in royalties isn't.&lt;/i&gt;

You know it's just one big fag conspiracy. (Pssst, don't forget our Gay Army meeting on Monday!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(in response to Aaron&#8217;s post)</p>
<p><i>Card goes through fundie claptrap about how all homosexuals are the result of sexual abuse</i></p>
<p>Well, I was told that if it&#8217;s not sexual abuse, then it&#8217;s the WWF/WWE/whatever professional wrestling is called these days. Yes, someone actually told me that makes people gay. </p>
<p><i>I&#8217;ve never gone onto Stark Street or in San Francisco and been chased out by a gang with baseball bats yelling &#8220;Breeder!! Get out of here, you breeder-ass breeder!&#8221;</i></p>
<p>That was a hilarious image, even if it&#8217;s never happened.</p>
<p><i>Evidently we&#8217;re part of the &#8220;elite,&#8221; while a million-selling author swimming in royalties isn&#8217;t.</i></p>
<p>You know it&#8217;s just one big fag conspiracy. (Pssst, don&#8217;t forget our Gay Army meeting on Monday!)</p>
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		<title>By: Raznor</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10528</link>
		<dc:creator>Raznor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10528</guid>
		<description>I've linked to this in the comments here, like, twice, but don't forget this &lt;a href="http://www.theonion.com/onion3326/homosexualrecruit.html"&gt;revealing expose on the gay agenda.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve linked to this in the comments here, like, twice, but don&#8217;t forget this <a href="http://www.theonion.com/onion3326/homosexualrecruit.html">revealing expose on the gay agenda.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Raznor</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10529</link>
		<dc:creator>Raznor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10529</guid>
		<description>Oh and that Seinfeld, Superman thing is hilarious.  I'm pretty sure that Superman is done by Patrick Warburton, who did the voice of Joe Swanson on &lt;i&gt;Family Guy&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh and that Seinfeld, Superman thing is hilarious.  I&#8217;m pretty sure that Superman is done by Patrick Warburton, who did the voice of Joe Swanson on <i>Family Guy</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: Scooter</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10530</link>
		<dc:creator>Scooter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10530</guid>
		<description>Yeah, Warburton does Supes' voice. Warburton, of course, also played the Tick on the live-action series and was Puddy on Seinfeld's show...

Yeah, great "commercial". I'm looking forward to the rest of 'em...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, Warburton does Supes&#8217; voice. Warburton, of course, also played the Tick on the live-action series and was Puddy on Seinfeld&#8217;s show&#8230;</p>
<p>Yeah, great &#8220;commercial&#8221;. I&#8217;m looking forward to the rest of &#8216;em&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ab_Normal</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10531</link>
		<dc:creator>Ab_Normal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10531</guid>
		<description>That's it, I'm not buying any more of Card's books. And if I ever run across him at a con, I might not be able to maintain civility. Grrrr.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s it, I&#8217;m not buying any more of Card&#8217;s books. And if I ever run across him at a con, I might not be able to maintain civility. Grrrr.</p>
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		<title>By: snuh</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10532</link>
		<dc:creator>snuh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10532</guid>
		<description>in re orson scott card, i stopped reading after this paragraph:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The Massachusetts Supreme Court has not yet declared that "day" shall now be construed to include that which was formerly known as "night," but it might as well.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It apparently does not occur to this dimwit that there is &lt;i&gt;already&lt;/i&gt; a universally accepted meaning of the word "day" that &lt;i&gt;includes&lt;/i&gt; "night" [as in, day of the week]. it is quite correct to say that the mass sup ct "might as well" say that day includes night. in some contexts, it does. and since this debate is all about context [i.e., religious context as against civil/legal context], mr scott card can make no meaningful contribution.&lt;br /&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in re orson scott card, i stopped reading after this paragraph:</p>
<blockquote><p>The Massachusetts Supreme Court has not yet declared that &#8220;day&#8221; shall now be construed to include that which was formerly known as &#8220;night,&#8221; but it might as well.</p></blockquote>
<p>It apparently does not occur to this dimwit that there is <i>already</i> a universally accepted meaning of the word &#8220;day&#8221; that <i>includes</i> &#8220;night&#8221; [as in, day of the week]. it is quite correct to say that the mass sup ct &#8220;might as well&#8221; say that day includes night. in some contexts, it does. and since this debate is all about context [i.e., religious context as against civil/legal context], mr scott card can make no meaningful contribution.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10533</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10533</guid>
		<description>Snuh, you should have carried on, at least until the bit where he explains that gay people can already get married, provided it's to people of the opposite sex. That should be good enough for them apparently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Snuh, you should have carried on, at least until the bit where he explains that gay people can already get married, provided it&#8217;s to people of the opposite sex. That should be good enough for them apparently.</p>
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		<title>By: scribblingwoman</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10534</link>
		<dc:creator>scribblingwoman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10534</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Off my list&lt;/strong&gt;
Well now I don't have to feel guilty for never reading Ender's Game: Orson Scott Card authors homophobic diatribe between...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Off my list</strong><br />
Well now I don&#8217;t have to feel guilty for never reading Ender&#8217;s Game: Orson Scott Card authors homophobic diatribe between&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Daddy, Papa & Me</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10535</link>
		<dc:creator>Daddy, Papa & Me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/04/13/some-more-stuff-amp-is-reading/#comment-10535</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;It's all about Mormons lately&lt;/strong&gt;
(this will be a long one folks, perhaps a four parter). Having been a devout Mormon for 20 years, converted...
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>It&#8217;s all about Mormons lately</strong><br />
(this will be a long one folks, perhaps a four parter). Having been a devout Mormon for 20 years, converted&#8230;</p>
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