Brandy V.:

I do remember some famous woman boxer that was on the “E” network, who was supposed to be on American Gladiator. But you can’t find her on their website because of a recent scandal in which she beat the shit out of her husband. And then I know my friend’s mom, who was a wrestler, she knocked her husband’s teeth out, and another lady down the street who pulled out chunks of her man’s hair (dreads, must have really hurt).

A friend of mine once told me that the last thing she did as a wife for her “cheating” husband was “put him in hospital”. The tone of the remark was in the manner of a boast. I know of a man whose front tooth was punched out by his girlfriend. (Both of them confirmed this, and again the tone was jokey.) And I was punched repeatedly on several occasions by an enraged former partner.

I’m gunna have to say it’s more common then you think. :/ Women have rage issues, too, and not all of us can be delicate flowers. Nor can all our husbands be big strong men who can hold us back.

The implication of the latter remark is that large, physically strong men aren’t vulnerable. But that’s not the case if the woman isn’t holding back, and the man isn’t psychologically prepared to act to defend himself, in particular, if he’s unwilling to hurt her. My former partner was a waif of a woman, but when she was hitting me, my primary concern was to avoid offending her even more, which meant taking it without a flinch.

But overwhelmingly, it is men beating women…

That is disputed. Amp argues above, and in the other post that the NVAW survey presents a truer picture than the surveys typically cited by men’s activists. But there are credible arguments that suggest the opposite.

Anyhow, just wanted to say I really appreciated this post. This is a hard issue to address fairly and reasonably (I fail at it a lot!), but I feel like you did, here.

“Just because women have some issues, it means they are oppressed? Give me a break… Men face a lot of issues too … does it mean they are oppressed by matriarchy? ”

matriarchy? where??

Not getting your way into everything does not equal being oppressed

In the face of strong counter-evidence, and contrary to the opinions of the researchers whose work they rely on, men’s rights activists passionately insist that men are equally victims of spousal violence. What compels them to this belief? Men’s rights activists are at least partly driven by a fear of guilt and shame. Men’s rights activists are attracted to the equal-victimization hypothesis because, to them, it suggests that men are not to blame for violence against women.

I don’t think it is really shame about male violence that compels men’s activists to overstate female-on-male domestic violence. I myself have never seen any MRA crumble before data on male violence. Today, male-bashing and male-villification (don’t know if this word exists) go hand to hand in western society. In a country where there is overstatement about male violence, where we can found people like Andrea Dworkin and Catherine MacKinnon, where National Organization for Women in the occasion of Columbine condemned gender neutral reports — such as “kids shooting kids” — and stated that white boys, when mad, victimize girls and people of color - I think you should actually empathize to them. They feel villified, persecuted, etc.

Men’s rights activists have had their quota of excesseses — but I can’t say anything better about feminists. MRA radicalism will keep escalating as far as you radical feminists spread lies about them.

By the way, I’d like to know how patriarchy still spreads evil today. Just because women have some issues, it means they are oppressed? Give me a break… Men face a lot of issues too — does it mean they are oppressed by matriarchy?

What gets me is that you have to suspect some of these MRAs are batterers themselves. I was trying to find shelter for a battered guy so I called a nationally-pimped shelter for battered men. The guy who ran it couldn’t have cared less. He had no info, didn’t give a shit, and he turned out to be a batterer himself. The director of the Duluth Project, however, was extremely well-read and well-informed and very helpful. What a contrast.

The sad fact is that feminists just can’t set aside women to help men. There are too many women and I’ll be damned if they get put in the back of the bus. That’s what these guys want, though. It’s just more male entitlement: “Me first! I’m more important.” They think that it’s not supposed to happen to them–but to women—so it’s more awful than when it happens to women. When men do it to women, that is. See the passive voice? We’re not supposed to use direct male-blaming language; you get in the habit of it.

lol lol lol!

This has been a good discussion; thank you

And to those men’s rights activists who say that we need more services for male victims of domestic violence - I agree completely!

I’d be more sympathetic if those activists got off their duffs and implemented such services, instead of whining that the feminists aren’t doing it for them.

I’ve argued with men’s-rights activists who’ve complained “it takes money.” Well, hell, shelters and services for battered women didn’t start with funding from Bill Gates. They started on volunteer efforts, charity and a shoestring. You don’t get the government grants and philanthropy until after you’ve established that you’ve busted your butt getting a viable, reasonably stable group going.

That’s about when they change the subject. It’s sad, because the gay men’s community has been far more proactive in getting help to victims of partner violence.

THAT’S why activists aren’t out there starting straight men’s shelters - because that isn’t the main interest of most activists, a favorable divorce settlement is the main issue.

Gay men activists are actually interested in the problem, brought to light by the gay anti-violence (anti-bashing by straights) efforts and influenced by the women’s shelter movement, which has many lesbian activists and social service providers.

Sooner or later, someone puts down their shame and does something constructive - the activist types might be 1% of all affected individuals, and the successful activists might be 0.1-0.5% of all affected individuals. Coming out as a battered husband in 2004 can’t be any harder than coming out as a homosexual in the civilian world in the pre-Stonewall era or in the armed services today. Lack of activists suggests a low prevalence of serious straight male partner violence.

Services? NOBODY that knows me in real life knows this happened. I’m hiding behind a pseudonym here. I was humiliated enough that it happened.

I agree with Amp’s basic point–I don’t think it’s equal at all, and men’s rights groups aren’t doing actual men who have actually been abused any favors.

But services? Actually *telling* someone about this? It happened in my early twenties after I had spend my entire youth being beaten and humiliated for being a ‘pussy’. A complete lack of self-esteem is how I got myself into that relationship in the first place. I plan to stay right in the closet about being a victim of girlfriend abuse, thankyouverymuch.

http://www.ndvh.org/

I don’t know statistics, but I don’t find it implausible that mothers are as likely to abuse children as fathers. I also wouldn’t be surprised if the type and severity of of abuse differed.

Why would I not be surprised?: For one thing, mothers are around the children more often. That means, if, for whatever reason, the mother becomes unhinged, she is likely in the presence of the child, and might smack them — hard.

I have personally known mothers who abuse their kids badly– to the extent of hospitalization. In recent years, there were also two prominent child murders by mothers near my town. (One was a “Medea” type murder– Marilyn Lemak seemed to have done it to get back at her ex husband for dating. I never read the motive of the other one. )

On the other hand, if I saw statistics that said, nevertheless, mothers abuse their children less frequently than fathers, I wouldn’t be astonished either. I’d pretty much have to read about what they defined as abuse and how they collected data to figure out the answer.

These surveys are much more difficult to do well than laboratory work. (Which can also be difficult to do well.)