Comments on: The Pursuit of Happiness http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/ Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about. Fri, 05 Dec 2008 00:13:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Ryan Freebern http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13982 Ryan Freebern Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13982 "homosexual or lesbian"? “homosexual or lesbian”?

]]> By: lucia http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13983 lucia Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13983 Opps! I'll edit! Opps! I’ll edit!

]]> By: Don P http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13984 Don P Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13984 Actually, shouldn't it be GLBTQ individuals? Actually, shouldn’t it be GLBTQ individuals?

]]> By: lucia http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13985 lucia Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13985 Hmmm... I think you are correct. Although, I think there seems to be some dispute as to whether or not the transgendered can legally marry the partner of their choice. Some states seem to insist they marry acording to their DNA traits, some insist they marry according to their new physical appearance. Sigh.... I think we can hash out the wording of the new act here in comments. Sort of like the Republican's hashed out the FMA. Hmmm… I think you are correct. Although, I think there seems to be some dispute as to whether or not the transgendered can legally marry the partner of their choice. Some states seem to insist they marry acording to their DNA traits, some insist they marry according to their new physical appearance. Sigh….

I think we can hash out the wording of the new act here in comments. Sort of like the Republican’s hashed out the FMA.

]]> By: wookie http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13986 wookie Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13986 Hmmm, I'll "divorce" if we each get 100,000 per year. Hmmm, I’ll “divorce” if we each get 100,000 per year.

]]> By: Don P http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13987 Don P Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13987 Lucia, I wasn't really being serious. It used to be just "gay rights." Then it became "gay and lesbian." Then "bisexual" was added. And "transgendered." And now increasingly I see "Queer" too, which is apparently now deemed to be a separate category. I say this not to mock. I passionately support the movement. Just having some fun with the PC-ness of it all. Lucia, I wasn’t really being serious. It used to be just “gay rights.” Then it became “gay and lesbian.” Then “bisexual” was added. And “transgendered.” And now increasingly I see “Queer” too, which is apparently now deemed to be a separate category.

I say this not to mock. I passionately support the movement. Just having some fun with the PC-ness of it all.

]]> By: lucia http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13988 lucia Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13988 Don't worry Don P. I am often less serious than, I suspect , you guess. ;-) Don’t worry Don P. I am often less serious than, I suspect , you guess. ;-)

]]> By: mythago http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13989 mythago Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13989 <i>And now increasingly I see "Queer" too, which is apparently now deemed to be a separate category.</i> No, "queer" generally refers to the whole gay-lesbian-bisexual-transgendered thing. Some people don't like the term, of course. There's a long history of tension between gay men and lesbians on whether 'gay' is inclusive, and between homosexuals and bisexuals as to whether the latter are really just straight people, so it's not so much about PC. And now increasingly I see “Queer” too, which is apparently now deemed to be a separate category.

No, “queer” generally refers to the whole gay-lesbian-bisexual-transgendered thing. Some people don’t like the term, of course.

There’s a long history of tension between gay men and lesbians on whether ‘gay’ is inclusive, and between homosexuals and bisexuals as to whether the latter are really just straight people, so it’s not so much about PC.

]]> By: Don P http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13990 Don P Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13990 Obviously, some activists think "queer" is a distinct category or identity. Hence the "GLBTQ" designation. And I do think political correctness, in the perjorative sense, has to do in part with going overboard in trying to be inclusive and accommodating. There has to be a point at which we stop adding new letters to the name of our movement to identify ever smaller and more contested categories. I'm pretty sympathetic to separation of the "gay" and "lesbian" categories, though. Obviously, some activists think “queer” is a distinct category or identity. Hence the “GLBTQ” designation.

And I do think political correctness, in the perjorative sense, has to do in part with going overboard in trying to be inclusive and accommodating. There has to be a point at which we stop adding new letters to the name of our movement to identify ever smaller and more contested categories.

I’m pretty sympathetic to separation of the “gay” and “lesbian” categories, though.

]]> By: K http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13991 K Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13991 For a 100K a year I'll be gay as all get out. My wife will be, too. For a 100K a year I’ll be gay as all get out. My wife will be, too.

]]> By: Trey http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13992 Trey Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13992 hmm.. my happiness is worth 150k a year!! now if only my JOB would be :D interesting though, puts an economic value on jobs/family, etc.. so if you could find a job that pays 100k a year, but it would hurt your married and sex life.. well, probably not worth it... but if the job paid 200k/year.. well then... there is something to think about? LOL hmm.. my happiness is worth 150k a year!!

now if only my JOB would be :D

interesting though, puts an economic value on jobs/family, etc..

so if you could find a job that pays 100k a year, but it would hurt your married and sex life.. well, probably not worth it…

but if the job paid 200k/year.. well then… there is something to think about?

LOL

]]> By: Trey http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13993 Trey Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13993 I'm not big on the GLBTQ thing.. it is all so difficult to spit out and to feel like you have to include everyone.. but by doing so exclude _someone_... there was an article a while back that argued that all gay, lesbian, transsexual, queer, bi, etc.. should be titled... "transgendered" and I agreed with the article (basically the poles of gender are men of 'masculine' characteristics, attracted to women and women of 'feminine' characterstics, attracted to men.. and the rest of us are somewhere in between (masculine men attracted to men, transsexual, etc) and thus "trans" I'd be fine being called transgendered in a 'larger' since if it would get rid of the whole BLGTQ thing... but I don't see it happening. I’m not big on the GLBTQ thing.. it is all so difficult to spit out and to feel like you have to include everyone.. but by doing so exclude _someone_…

there was an article a while back that argued that all gay, lesbian, transsexual, queer, bi, etc.. should be titled…

“transgendered”

and I agreed with the article (basically the poles of gender are men of ‘masculine’ characteristics, attracted to women and women of ‘feminine’ characterstics, attracted to men.. and the rest of us are somewhere in between (masculine men attracted to men, transsexual, etc) and thus “trans”

I’d be fine being called transgendered in a ‘larger’ since if it would get rid of the whole BLGTQ thing… but I don’t see it happening.

]]> By: lucia http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13994 lucia Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13994 >>For a 100K a year I'll be gay as all get out. My wife will be, too. Hmmm.. this entitlement program may get pretty expensive. We could, of course, put it in place, then save the government money by just enacting same sex marriage and getting rid of the entitlement. >>For a 100K a year I’ll be gay as all get out. My wife will be, too.

Hmmm.. this entitlement program may get pretty expensive.

We could, of course, put it in place, then save the government money by just enacting same sex marriage and getting rid of the entitlement.

]]> By: Don P http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13995 Don P Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13995 Anyone see <i>Queer As Folk</i> last night? Wasn't it great what Debbie did? Now if we could just persuade all sympathetic straight people to refuse to marry until gay couples are granted equal marriage rights, it might do wonders for the cause. I wonder how many straight marriages Maggie Gallagher and her ilk would be willing to sacrifice in order to keep excluding gays. Anyone see Queer As Folk last night? Wasn’t it great what Debbie did? Now if we could just persuade all sympathetic straight people to refuse to marry until gay couples are granted equal marriage rights, it might do wonders for the cause. I wonder how many straight marriages Maggie Gallagher and her ilk would be willing to sacrifice in order to keep excluding gays.

]]> By: yami http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13996 yami Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13996 Trey, I think the kinds of people who worry about what the movement should be called are also the kinds of people who would vehemently object to being told that being attracted to men is somehow "less masculine" than being attracted to women. I like queer as a catch-all term, but pulling the BLGTs out from the Qs in "GLBTQ" is just silly. Trey, I think the kinds of people who worry about what the movement should be called are also the kinds of people who would vehemently object to being told that being attracted to men is somehow “less masculine” than being attracted to women. I like queer as a catch-all term, but pulling the BLGTs out from the Qs in “GLBTQ” is just silly.

]]> By: Don P http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13997 Don P Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13997 I guess it depends on what you mean by "masculine." Science has pretty much disproven the old idea that gay men are essentially women trapped in men's bodies. Gay male sexuality mirrors straight male sexuality in pretty much every way except that the object of gay male desire is other men rather than women. Pornography, prostitution, promiscuity and a high premium on youth and physical attractiveness in one's sex partners are overwhelmingly male interests. I guess it depends on what you mean by “masculine.” Science has pretty much disproven the old idea that gay men are essentially women trapped in men’s bodies. Gay male sexuality mirrors straight male sexuality in pretty much every way except that the object of gay male desire is other men rather than women. Pornography, prostitution, promiscuity and a high premium on youth and physical attractiveness in one’s sex partners are overwhelmingly male interests.

]]> By: Joe M. http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13998 Joe M. Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13998 Doesn't "Q" stand for "questioning"? Doesn’t “Q” stand for “questioning”?

]]> By: mythago http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13999 mythago Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-13999 <i>Hence the "GLBTQ" designation.</i> I have to admit, even out here in San Francisco and environs I don't see "GLBTQ" used, probably because it sounds like a sandwich. Yes, at some point you go overboard trying to please everyone; I think gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender pretty much covers everyone. Hence the “GLBTQ” designation.

I have to admit, even out here in San Francisco and environs I don’t see “GLBTQ” used, probably because it sounds like a sandwich.

Yes, at some point you go overboard trying to please everyone; I think gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender pretty much covers everyone.

]]> By: emilie http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-14000 emilie Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-14000 I've heard GLBTQ several times in academic settings. No, Joe, the Q definitely stands for "Queer" and not "Questioning," (in every instance I've heard, anyway). And to my understanding, Queer means anyone who is "different" but doesn't fit into one of the previous letters of the acronym... so a woman who dates women and men but doesn't consider herself either lesbian or bisexual (maybe because she dates men predominantly?)... or someone who is attracted to people of both sexes but only romantically interested in one sex... or someone who is attracted to transgendered people (see, that would be hard to fit)... etc. I’ve heard GLBTQ several times in academic settings.

No, Joe, the Q definitely stands for “Queer” and not “Questioning,” (in every instance I’ve heard, anyway).

And to my understanding, Queer means anyone who is “different” but doesn’t fit into one of the previous letters of the acronym… so a woman who dates women and men but doesn’t consider herself either lesbian or bisexual (maybe because she dates men predominantly?)… or someone who is attracted to people of both sexes but only romantically interested in one sex… or someone who is attracted to transgendered people (see, that would be hard to fit)… etc.

]]> By: acm http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-14001 acm Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/19/the-pursuit-of-happiness/#comment-14001 well, people may say "gay and lesbian," but I think that "homosexual" is always construed as meaning both, since it's so literally just 'loving one's own sex' . . . well, people may say “gay and lesbian,” but I think that “homosexual” is always construed as meaning both, since it’s so literally just ‘loving one’s own sex’ . . .

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