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	<title>Comments on: The Stupidest Arguments Against Marriage Equality</title>
	<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/</link>
	<description>Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 01:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1</generator>
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		<title>By: Chana</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-159560</link>
		<dc:creator>Chana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jul 2006 22:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-159560</guid>
		<description>I don't know; I think my favorite is still, "But if gays get married, then they'll start having... &lt;i&gt;relations!&lt;/i&gt;"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know; I think my favorite is still, &#8220;But if gays get married, then they&#8217;ll start having&#8230; <i>relations!</i>&#8220;</p>
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		<title>By: Alas, a blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Opposing Equal Rights To Send A Message To The Middle East</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-158544</link>
		<dc:creator>Alas, a blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Opposing Equal Rights To Send A Message To The Middle East</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jul 2006 19:25:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-158544</guid>
		<description>[...] A new addition to the list of the stupidest arguments against marriage equality. From the New York Times article on the House of Reps debate over same-sex marriage: Another Georgia Republican, Representative Phil Gingrey, said support for traditional marriage &#8220;is perhaps the best message we can give to the Middle East and all the trouble they’re having over there right now.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] A new addition to the list of the stupidest arguments against marriage equality. From the New York Times article on the House of Reps debate over same-sex marriage: Another Georgia Republican, Representative Phil Gingrey, said support for traditional marriage &#8220;is perhaps the best message we can give to the Middle East and all the trouble they’re having over there right now.&#8221; [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Creative Destruction &#187; Opposing Equal Rights To Send A Message To The Middle East</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-158543</link>
		<dc:creator>Creative Destruction &#187; Opposing Equal Rights To Send A Message To The Middle East</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jul 2006 19:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-158543</guid>
		<description>[...] A new addition to the list of the stupidest arguments against marriage equality. From the New York Times article on the House of Reps debate over same-sex marriage: Another Georgia Republican, Representative Phil Gingrey, said support for traditional marriage &#8220;is perhaps the best message we can give to the Middle East and all the trouble they’re having over there right now.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] A new addition to the list of the stupidest arguments against marriage equality. From the New York Times article on the House of Reps debate over same-sex marriage: Another Georgia Republican, Representative Phil Gingrey, said support for traditional marriage &#8220;is perhaps the best message we can give to the Middle East and all the trouble they’re having over there right now.&#8221; [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: mythago</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14502</link>
		<dc:creator>mythago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14502</guid>
		<description>At least she had enough dim awareness to put "freedom" in quotes.

I like the mental image of a seedy guy in a green eyeshade cranking out marriage licenses in his basement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At least she had enough dim awareness to put &#8220;freedom&#8221; in quotes.</p>
<p>I like the mental image of a seedy guy in a green eyeshade cranking out marriage licenses in his basement.</p>
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		<title>By: EmeralineDragon</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14503</link>
		<dc:creator>EmeralineDragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14503</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;YOUR CHURCH will have to abandon Scripture and “marry” homosexuals or lose their tax exempt status or worse yet - BE SHUT DOWN if they refuse to marry two men or two women!&lt;/i&gt;

Aha! So that's where my father came up with that bit of nonsense. Figures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>YOUR CHURCH will have to abandon Scripture and “marry” homosexuals or lose their tax exempt status or worse yet - BE SHUT DOWN if they refuse to marry two men or two women!</i></p>
<p>Aha! So that&#8217;s where my father came up with that bit of nonsense. Figures.</p>
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		<title>By: mythago</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14504</link>
		<dc:creator>mythago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14504</guid>
		<description>Ask him when the Orthodox Union is going to be shut down because its rabbis refuse to marry a Jew and a non-Jew. I mean, the government will let Jews and Gentiles marry, so clearly the OU is in for a whuppin' at the hands of the homosexual lobby and its tools in Washington. Right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ask him when the Orthodox Union is going to be shut down because its rabbis refuse to marry a Jew and a non-Jew. I mean, the government will let Jews and Gentiles marry, so clearly the OU is in for a whuppin&#8217; at the hands of the homosexual lobby and its tools in Washington. Right?</p>
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		<title>By: nobody.really</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14505</link>
		<dc:creator>nobody.really</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14505</guid>
		<description>Ok, this is gloriously silly.  But the “father” and “mother” thing is interesting.  

While it is hard to imagine the words “father” and “mother” entirely falling out of usage in favor of “parent,” they already have in the school notices I get from my daughters.  We can’t deny that many male-specified terms have fallen into disfavor: businessman, chairman, policeman/fireman, serviceman, seaman, longshoreman, anchorman, draftsman, ombudsman, tribesman, remainderman, venireman, warehouseman, materialman, workman, foreman, landman, bondsman, juryman, and “the reasonable man standard.”  Some Christian churches even seek to avoid gendered references to the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Moreover, female-specified terms have basically vanished: aviatrix and aviatress, conciliatrix and conciliatress, dictatrix and dictatress, prosecutrix, testatrix, tutrix, relatrix, heritrix or heritress, inheritrix and inheritress, victrix and victress.  But a few holdouts remain.  I occasionally hear reference to a landlady.  And, although many female performers refer to themselves as actors, the Academy Awards still gives a prize for Best Actress and Best Supporting Actress.  Finally, the word dominatrix remains in circulation.  

I chuckle at the idea of someone thinking that linguistic concerns should influence the SSM debate.  But it’s eye-opening, too.  I heard that Bush eliminates the word “parents” from his speeches, replacing that word with “moms and dads.”  This sounds folksier, but it also emphasizes the idea that male and female parents differ.  I surmise that some part of his audience takes comfort in that distinction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, this is gloriously silly.  But the “father” and “mother” thing is interesting.  </p>
<p>While it is hard to imagine the words “father” and “mother” entirely falling out of usage in favor of “parent,” they already have in the school notices I get from my daughters.  We can’t deny that many male-specified terms have fallen into disfavor: businessman, chairman, policeman/fireman, serviceman, seaman, longshoreman, anchorman, draftsman, ombudsman, tribesman, remainderman, venireman, warehouseman, materialman, workman, foreman, landman, bondsman, juryman, and “the reasonable man standard.”  Some Christian churches even seek to avoid gendered references to the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.</p>
<p>Moreover, female-specified terms have basically vanished: aviatrix and aviatress, conciliatrix and conciliatress, dictatrix and dictatress, prosecutrix, testatrix, tutrix, relatrix, heritrix or heritress, inheritrix and inheritress, victrix and victress.  But a few holdouts remain.  I occasionally hear reference to a landlady.  And, although many female performers refer to themselves as actors, the Academy Awards still gives a prize for Best Actress and Best Supporting Actress.  Finally, the word dominatrix remains in circulation.  </p>
<p>I chuckle at the idea of someone thinking that linguistic concerns should influence the SSM debate.  But it’s eye-opening, too.  I heard that Bush eliminates the word “parents” from his speeches, replacing that word with “moms and dads.”  This sounds folksier, but it also emphasizes the idea that male and female parents differ.  I surmise that some part of his audience takes comfort in that distinction.</p>
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		<title>By: sidhebaap</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14506</link>
		<dc:creator>sidhebaap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14506</guid>
		<description>I'm afraid I can't comprehend this one: "Christians who believe otherwise will have trouble with the I.R.S."

And as for safe sodomy classes... hey, that sounds like a pretty good idea to me!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m afraid I can&#8217;t comprehend this one: &#8220;Christians who believe otherwise will have trouble with the I.R.S.&#8221;</p>
<p>And as for safe sodomy classes&#8230; hey, that sounds like a pretty good idea to me!</p>
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		<title>By: lucia</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14507</link>
		<dc:creator>lucia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14507</guid>
		<description>Caliban? Gosh.. I thought she just screwed up the word "Cabal".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Caliban? Gosh.. I thought she just screwed up the word &#8220;Cabal&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14508</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14508</guid>
		<description>If she really wants us to appease the terrorists, we're gonna have to all convert to fundamentalist Islam.
I mean, if she's serious, that's what it's gonna take.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If she really wants us to appease the terrorists, we&#8217;re gonna have to all convert to fundamentalist Islam.<br />
I mean, if she&#8217;s serious, that&#8217;s what it&#8217;s gonna take.</p>
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		<title>By: karpad</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14509</link>
		<dc:creator>karpad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14509</guid>
		<description>...doesn't that little word game thing sound a bit stupid even to them?
I mean, how do they define "father?"
since biology isn't nessicary (adoptive and step fathers are fathers, nonetheless) the only workable definition is "a male parent"
so dispite anyone's best effort, "Moms and Dads" is a phrase that includes gay and lesbian parents just as well. it isn't "set {mom and dad} for multiple persons" it's "the set {mom} AOR {dad}"

man, these are very silly people.
are we entirely sure that Caliban thing isn't just some very, very subtle social satire?
since, isn't caving and changing our values in ANY WAY to forestall attacks "letting the terrorists win?"

and I don't like that sex ed thing. it seems like a bad idea. just a way to get Religion into public schools through the back door (no pun intended). I'm sure they'd start distributing Chick Tracts where Jesus explains to the reader how, why, and the methods of anal sex.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;doesn&#8217;t that little word game thing sound a bit stupid even to them?<br />
I mean, how do they define &#8220;father?&#8221;<br />
since biology isn&#8217;t nessicary (adoptive and step fathers are fathers, nonetheless) the only workable definition is &#8220;a male parent&#8221;<br />
so dispite anyone&#8217;s best effort, &#8220;Moms and Dads&#8221; is a phrase that includes gay and lesbian parents just as well. it isn&#8217;t &#8220;set {mom and dad} for multiple persons&#8221; it&#8217;s &#8220;the set {mom} AOR {dad}&#8221;</p>
<p>man, these are very silly people.<br />
are we entirely sure that Caliban thing isn&#8217;t just some very, very subtle social satire?<br />
since, isn&#8217;t caving and changing our values in ANY WAY to forestall attacks &#8220;letting the terrorists win?&#8221;</p>
<p>and I don&#8217;t like that sex ed thing. it seems like a bad idea. just a way to get Religion into public schools through the back door (no pun intended). I&#8217;m sure they&#8217;d start distributing Chick Tracts where Jesus explains to the reader how, why, and the methods of anal sex.</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14510</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14510</guid>
		<description>You're right about the "moms and dads" thing.  It's a loaded phrase, in a context where equality is assumed, that phrase would be heard very differently.  Essentially, the audience would hear the equivalent of "parents".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right about the &#8220;moms and dads&#8221; thing.  It&#8217;s a loaded phrase, in a context where equality is assumed, that phrase would be heard very differently.  Essentially, the audience would hear the equivalent of &#8220;parents&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: NancyP</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14511</link>
		<dc:creator>NancyP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14511</guid>
		<description>The whole "kids are better when raised by biological father and mother" argument is bound to anger adoptees. The "Christian" right wing is anti-adopted-children, as being "brand X". The same people are also promoting adoption as an alternative to abortion - you might think they would try to say a few nice things about adoptees and their adoptive parents.

I have always fancied being ruled over by a wild man wearing a grass skirt and speaking iambic pentameter. I vote for Caliban.

Really, it is very difficult to come up with a single winner in the "dumbass reason against SSM" contest - there are so many fine entries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole &#8220;kids are better when raised by biological father and mother&#8221; argument is bound to anger adoptees. The &#8220;Christian&#8221; right wing is anti-adopted-children, as being &#8220;brand X&#8221;. The same people are also promoting adoption as an alternative to abortion - you might think they would try to say a few nice things about adoptees and their adoptive parents.</p>
<p>I have always fancied being ruled over by a wild man wearing a grass skirt and speaking iambic pentameter. I vote for Caliban.</p>
<p>Really, it is very difficult to come up with a single winner in the &#8220;dumbass reason against SSM&#8221; contest - there are so many fine entries.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron V.</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14512</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron V.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14512</guid>
		<description>A more accurate term would be "Aliban" - Alabama Taliban like Former Judge Roy Moore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A more accurate term would be &#8220;Aliban&#8221; - Alabama Taliban like Former Judge Roy Moore.</p>
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		<title>By: Mouse</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14513</link>
		<dc:creator>Mouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14513</guid>
		<description>Caliban? I wonder what Shakespeare would have to say about this insult.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Caliban? I wonder what Shakespeare would have to say about this insult.</p>
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		<title>By: newswriter</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14514</link>
		<dc:creator>newswriter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/07/23/the-stupidest-arguments-against-marriage-equality/#comment-14514</guid>
		<description>I couldn't get past Ms. Wilhite and "Not only do we allow our women to go unveiled." Our women should be veiled? Makes my lil head spin. Ms. Wilhite seems to be promoting the idea that we oughta placate the terrorist, give in to their ideas of a way of life, in order to get along with them.

Don't think Dubya would agree with that idea. Or maybe I really am confused.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn&#8217;t get past Ms. Wilhite and &#8220;Not only do we allow our women to go unveiled.&#8221; Our women should be veiled? Makes my lil head spin. Ms. Wilhite seems to be promoting the idea that we oughta placate the terrorist, give in to their ideas of a way of life, in order to get along with them.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t think Dubya would agree with that idea. Or maybe I really am confused.</p>
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