Did you miss that this site is run by a man?

But since this thread started out as a supposed discussion of the rerelease of Deep Throat to theaters (unlikely, by the way..) but turned into a discussion of the relative merits of Ms. MacKinnon, let me just say she is an intelligent, dedicated and most usually misguided carrier of the torch of feminism. The assertion that there are women who have died from “throat rape” has no basis in any recorded fact, and this is too often the case with her assertions. There are undoubted needs for further ethical, moral and legal protection of women: none of these needs are served with science-fiction claims. This has been, is, and likely will be the part of Ms. MacKinnon’s armor that consistently enables her valid points to be defalted, few though they might be. When 30% of what you say has no basis in fact but you consistently state it as such, whatever the other 70% is will seem unimportant and devalued. That’s just the way it is in the minority of people out here who actually THINK and do not merely follow someone because we think they are in our corner. There are reasons why a lot of black people will never take Rev. Al Sharpton seriously - and they’re the same reasons why women should be wary of the likes of Ms. MacKinnon. An excess of hubris and a mimimus of fact will do that to you, though.

And as for all the spouting I’ve read here about what “men” think and what arouses “men”, I think a mirror should be observed to see where the sexim of the day is pointed. Be honest: if most, or even a predominance of “men” in the US were as this site describes them, the site would never exist. We are NOT all the same, you know?

Men are visually simulated by sex, while women are emotionally stimulated. Therefore, in order to truly evaluate which sex purchased more material related to the idea of sexual arousal, we must broaden the definition to include the types of material that is sexually stimulating to females.

Romance novels account for over 50% of all paperback book sales. The inclusion of this statistic alone clearly shows that woman are far more active as consumers of sexually simulating material than men.

McKinnon goes on to say that “Sexuality, as socially organized, is deeply misogynistic.”?
Here she hits the nail right on the head. But why? The answer to that lies in the current state of world religion. The “Big Three”? (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) are all based on patriarchal values. They all exalt a God with primarily male attributes, and place women in a subordinate role.

If history is to teach us anything, let us learn this:

All world religions can be placed in one of two categories. Matriarchy or patriarchy.

Matriarchies are found in agriculturally based societies that depend on the bounty of the earth and the change of seasons. They are generally peaceful, and exalt birth and new life, with a nurturing, divine mother figure.

Patriarchies are found in industrial societies that rely on trade, commerce or conquest to fuel their economies. They are generally war like nations willing to do battle for righteousness and divine good. They share the common element of forcing conquest or assimilation upon any group that does not share in their ideology.

The reason that most world religions are patriarchal is simply because they have systematically wiped out the matriarchies. This alone should tell us what lies ahead for humanity if this trend is allowed to continue.

The world will never be at peace, nor will women ever take their rightful place beside their male counterparts, until the world embraces a new form of theology that exalts the concepts of matriarchy and patriarchy as a divine parenting model of human kind, in a doctrine that embraces scientific principles and open diversity.

It is up to the women to create this change.

The key is not for women to simply embrace their sexuality, or to demand equality in the workplace, but rather, to embrace themselves as the divine expression of nurturing beauty, and bringers of new life. Only when we value ourselves, will others see the divine light within us. Then, the chain reaction will follow.

Case in point: The Tree of life
In the bible, the story of Adam, Eve, and the apple is taught as Eve’s original sin. But long before this tale was told, a much older version of the story circled the globe, in which a hero was sent on a quest. Only when he proved himself worthy, did the goddess appear before him, and grant him the reward of the fruit from the tree of life.

One story values women the other condemns them.

So plant your seeds ladies, and pass out the fruit. Our future depends on you.

If claiming my rights as a free human being is treason, then by the Goddess, let’s make the most of it.

Sorry to feed the troll, but the utter douchebaggery of this one was too hilarious to ignore.

Oh the horror!

I feel so duped. Everything I know is a lie. Etc.

[Vowels removed by Amp.]

[loooong list of quotes cut by Amp; you can find 90% of them at this link.]

“Pay no attention to the feminist behind the curtain!”

You know, Amanda, making comments like that, which imply that any women who’s fucked off over what’s been going on are somehow Man-Haters who don’t know how to relate to any male or who automatically class anything with a penis as Evil, doesn’t really help. It also plays into the whole Good Feminist/Bad Feminist game, which I don’t feel like playing.

Do I think you’re a Bad Feminist because you’ve got male friends? Of course I fucking don’t. So please don’t try to make ME into a Bad Feminist because I happen to feel that whole “civility” issue is important to deal with.

God knows I would never attempt to minimise any woman’s rape experience, but I will say that yours was so far away from mine in terms of the support we received afterwards that they’re incomparable. In my case, even male members of my own fucking family took the view that it was “no big deal” and not anything worth wasting time over. In fact, nowadays, I think they’ve completely forgotten it ever happened. The only support I’ve ever had in dealing with it came from women. Women have also been the only who have ever acknowledged that it was a bad thing to happen to me.

“I cannot, with an intellectual honesty, go after men for their privilege. Pointing it out is one thing; but getting into the blame game is not effective.”

How is asking a man to consider how his privilege is affecting the way in which he deals with women “getting into the blame game”? I’m sorry, but if people of any privileged class are enjoying the fruits of their privilege while refusing to deal with the implications of it, I have no problem in being highly critical of them. Pointing out that they have it only goes so far: if once they recognise they have it but still refuse to analyse just how it guides their actions, what do you suggest we do?

Yes, because mistaken identity is of course grounds for a libel suit. And you go on about how frivolous class action suits against pornographers are?

Nurse your brused fee-fees in your crib and gow the fuck up. While you’re at it, familiarize yourself with the term “troll.”

Oh, for fuck’s sake, Mithras. He made his reasons for banning Kait pretty clear. She went over the top and threatened Heart. It had nothing to do with the alleged “orthodoxy” you see here, and I’m sick to fucking death of these free-speech and anti-sex straw men.

Look, I enjoy discussing issues here. If you guys want to vent, and I think you have more than enough right to do so, come over to my blog. I’m not a nice person like Amp, and I’m not going to take this shit personally. http://www.mousewords.blogspot.com

I’m working on a blog post about feminist guilt that I just hope to god people piss all over. Spill your anger over at my blog. I love it. And, um, if anyone could teach me the HTML code so that I could have a “new comments” section at my blog, I would be most grateful.

I really, really, really hate feminist women fighting each other over men and what they do or say. I’m not going to bend–if I like, appreciate, enjoy, whatever a man, I will fucking defend him. I find discussions about male privilege and how even feminist men enjoy these privileges to be enlightening. But once it veers out of that territory and getting to very individualistic blame, blame beyone the ordinary, manageable stuff aimed at men like, “You have privilege, admit it, abandon it best you can,” and into holding men responsible for shit they don’t actively participate in and in fact actively fight against, I seize up. Granted, even men who fight women’s oppression find somewhat open arms with the oppressors–any feminist man who whines that other men don’t like him because he’s a feminist needs to spend a day as a female feminist–but that doesn’t make them active oppressors.

I hate to bring it up again, but I think it’s relevant for discussing how this issue is complex and so socially-based that focusing simply on male privilege is a waste of time. When I was 20 years old, I was a victim of rape and/or a rape attempt, depending on what you think rape “is”. (The prosecuter defined it as actual rape because there was penetration, though only with his fingers. I refrain from going so far because I don’t want to equate my experience with that of women who had to suffer from extended rape sessions that resembled the good kind of sexual relations and thereby left poison on said relations for their futures.) Anyway, it was a man who saved me just at the time I realized that I was going to be physically overpowered by the rapist. Few things cause me greater gastrointesinal distress than remembering how I tried to fight off the man who had me pinned with a body weight twice mine and how a male friend simply plucked this guy off me with one hand and said to him, “What the fuck are you doing?” And my attacker let loose a stream of invectives aimed at me, which only made the man who saved my ass completely irate and he abused him.

The man who saved my ass wasn’t upholding male privilege. He stroked my hair and held me afterwards and told me it wasn’t my fault, no, how could it be my fault until I was able to sleep. It wasn’t a pass–he was my friend and he loved me. It does happen.

A man was the one who compelled me to drop a dime on my assailant. This man was my boyfriend, and I suppose you could interpret as protecting his property, but if I had chosen to blow the whole thing off, he would have supported me. I was resistant and then he argued from the sisterhood–if I blew it off and my assailant attacked another woman, as he surely would, how would I feel? That was it; I could shake off the attack for myself, but I could not let a rapist walk free.

I cannot, with an intellectual honesty, go after men for their privilege. Pointing it out is one thing; but getting into the blame game is not effective. Okay, I’ll give you that it might be more pure or whatever, but it’s not a practical solution. When I was a broken, sobbing mess after I was sexually assaulted, two women gave me minimal help. One forgot my pain in a month. The other said to me that she admired my ability to fight for myself before she withdrew all help. The only people left standing to lean on were men.

I don’t think men are the only ones to lean on, by any means. That was just my circumstances at the time. But I’ll be damned before I continue to nod along to the idea that your average man is utterly, unequivocably complicit. Most of them really suffer and struggle and they are mostly just blind to what’s going on. As were most feminists until the penny dropped and we got a fucking clue. By the way, the person who first said, “The penny dropped,” to me, and it’s the perfect expression, was a male logic professor. He said he learned it from a woman. Yo, it’s complicated.

Worse, I’ve seen people use the term “radical feminst” to mean ‘women like her’ — which begs the question by painting MacKinnon’s alleged or real doctrines as more feminist than any opposing viewpoints.