Harajuku fashion
| April 18th, 2005Samhita at Feministing links to this Salon article criticizing pop star Gwen Stefani for hiring four Asian women to follow her around. The article’s subtitle neatly sums up its point: “Gwen Stefani neuters Japanese street fashion to create spring’s must-have accessory: Giggling geisha!” From the article:
Real harajuku girls are just the funky dressers who hang out in the Japanese shopping district of Harajuku. To the uninitiated, harajuku style can look like what might happen if a 5-year-old girl jacked up on liquor and goofballs decided to become a stylist. Layering is important, as is the mix of seemingly disparate styles and colors. Vintage couture can be mixed with traditional Japanese costumes, thrift-store classics, Lolita-esque flourishes and cyber-punk accessories. In a culture where the dreaded “salary man/woman” office worker is a fate to be avoided for this never-wanna-grow-up generation, harajuku style can look as radical as punk rockers first looked on London’s King Road or how pale-faced Goths silently sweating in their widows weeds look in cheerful sunny suburbs. [...]
Stefani fawns over harajuku style in her lyrics, but her appropriation of this subculture makes about as much sense as the Gap selling Anarchy T-shirts; she’s swallowed a subversive youth culture in Japan and barfed up another image of submissive giggling Asian women. While aping a style that’s suppose to be about individuality and personal expression, Stefani ends up being the only one who stands out.
The writer’s critique of Stefani seems pretty on-target. The description of harajuku fashion made me curious, so I googled and found some photo galleries: here, here, here, here, and here. The girls seem to be very creative and having a lot of gothy fun. Even the “sexy” outfits seem more like satire or appropriation than like dressing up to attract boys, and there’s a lot of wit going into the outfits. (There’s also some stuff that’s disturbing - a couple of photos I saw showed girls who had made themselves up to look as if they’d been beat up, or dressed like Nazis, etc..)
April 18th, 2005 at 3:29 am
I have no idea where to start on the feminist implications of sex, culture and Japanese school girls. Or Japanese men’s ideas about Japanese schoolgirls. Or even just certain Japanese ideas about sex in general.
This comment was written by Josh Jasper.Report this comment to the moderators
April 18th, 2005 at 4:16 am
Oh, come on - yes, Gwen Stefani is taking a subculture and misrepresenting it - that’s what always happens when you are dealing with popculture. No Doubt started as a brilliant ska band, but they became mainstream, and in the process left behind their roots.
I can’t really see any problem in what Stefani is doing, as long as she doesn’t try to pretend that this is really representive of the subculture, and in the interviews I’ve heard her in, she has never said anything like that (as a matter of fact, she has more than once commented on feeling ridicullous because of it all).
There are other issues here, as Jasper alludes to, but that’s not really unique about Stefani’s videos.
This comment was written by Kristjan Wager.Report this comment to the moderators
April 18th, 2005 at 4:26 am
They’re drag queens. But female underneath.
Consider me impressed. I didn’t even know this existed…
This comment was written by Jason Kuznicki.Report this comment to the moderators
April 18th, 2005 at 5:29 am
It’s not just the appropriation of another culture, it’s particularly galling that a white woman is taking a rebellious female subculture and misrepresenting it to gain her own non-white female admirers. The first time I saw this, the message came across loud and clear–Stefani is becoming an honorary man by having silent female admirers. It might be an effective way to keep her position as a rock star, but it’s also offensive.
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
April 18th, 2005 at 7:18 am
I find it interesting that the Salon article came out five days before the Yale Daily News article highlighting the connection between Asian fetishism and crimes against women of that demographic. Many of the victims were targeted out of a belief that, because of their culture/ethnicity, they would be submissive. When they show signs that they are anything but, there is reprisal.
I understand that pop culture “events” should be taken lightly in most cases but in this one I think that’s impossible. If she were a male artist who was paying an entourage of mute Geishas, the outrage would be more pronounced. What she is doing is not only misogynistic and perverse, it sucks the marrow out of the very institution she’s claiming to honor: the willfully independent harajuku girls.
This comment was written by Brandy.Report this comment to the moderators
April 18th, 2005 at 1:15 pm
I read this on Salon the day it came out, and I remember feeling a bit sad that it appears these girls are objectified. But I’m sure Gwen didn’t think about it at that level - she probably felt some oneness with these girls, a kind of punked-out, funky-dressed, over-the-top sisterhood, and that’s it. And she wanted to incorporate their style into her first solo tour, because they (the harajuku girls) are so far removed from that whitewashed, suburban, Orange County feel we’ve associated Gwen and No Doubt with for years.
I’m Asian, and I’m really not that offended by the whole Gwen thing. And I think Kristjan is right - there’s a bigger issue here that’s creepier. What’s more funky to me is the whole Japanese idea of the “slutty schoolgirl,” and the whole juxtaposition of barely legal innocence and sexuality. If anything, Japanese men themselves turn their own women into fetish objects.
But then again, how is that different from American culture? We do the same damn thing.
This comment was written by mags.Report this comment to the moderators
April 18th, 2005 at 7:42 pm
So, would this be a harajuku hijack?
This comment was written by Josh Jasper.Report this comment to the moderators
April 18th, 2005 at 10:00 pm
I don’t like it. That Stefani nevers seems to acknowledge their presence makes “her” Harajuku girls human accessories. That they’re cute, or that the subculture they hail from is interesting, doesn’t change the exploitation.
This comment was written by Lauren.Report this comment to the moderators
April 18th, 2005 at 11:02 pm
Lauren, she acknowledges them in interviews, and in”If I was a Rich Girl” she directly refers to them (though in a way that make them sound like her servants/accessories). The “Hollaback Girls” video starts with her taking a photo of them. However there is no doubt who is the main person in all her videos - Gwen Stefani.
This comment was written by Kristjan Wager.I note with interest that in “Hollaback Girls”, the Japanese girls are dressed much more in an American street style (or at least what is percepted as such in Europe), and much less in the schoolgirl fashion.
Report this comment to the moderators
April 19th, 2005 at 3:53 am
Well, I don’t know about that: I saw her being interviewed on a TV programme here in the UK, and that was not my impression at all. What I saw was her trying to come across as some sort of “artiste” and using their presence as in some way validating that.
Actually, Stefani came across as pathetically affected, and it did seem to me that the Japanese women were being used as mere props in order to boost Stefani’s own image.
The whole thing was just weird and creepy. There was no “sisterhood” vibe going on, that’s for sure.
This comment was written by Crys T.Report this comment to the moderators
April 19th, 2005 at 6:00 am
After watching the video, it seems to me that she’s also trying to ride the lesbian chic pop vibe. … unless the Harajuku girls are running their hands over her crotch for other reasons?
This comment was written by Q Grrl.Report this comment to the moderators
April 19th, 2005 at 7:07 am
I also found the use of Japanese girls in those videos a bit weird. But then, the amount of money that must have gone in those videos is rather creepy already. It’s all so overdone. Pimp-style excess. Like lots of other videos, ok, but I mean, can you count the levels of irony in a millionaire pop star singing ‘if I was a rich girl’ in a video packed with elaborate recreations of pirate ships and hundreds of extras and dancers? Judging by her definition for ‘rich’, if she was a rich girl, she’d have shot the video in space.
This comment was written by monica.Report this comment to the moderators
April 19th, 2005 at 7:51 am
hisashiburi– long time indeed since i last posted.
i gather from the pictures that what is erroneously being denominated “harajuku girls” refers to what over here we know as bijuaru kei or “visual types”, a local spin-off of the glam rock industry which is very much alive over here (btw one of my acquaintances happens to be an aspiring singer in one of such bands, but let’s just leave that neta for some other occasion)
harajuku is a much more diverse area– indeed, some of these boys and girls would balk at the idea that frilly dressed victorian look-alikes such as gosu rori (gothic lolitas) have in any way anything to do with the visual types, b-boys or dandy-esque ura-hara types
>What’s more funky to me is the whole Japanese idea of the “slutty schoolgirl,”? and the whole juxtaposition of barely legal innocence and sexuality. If anything, Japanese men themselves turn their own women into fetish objects.
actually, not less funky than virgin women giving birth to gods.
one does not cancel the other does it? if anything, discrimination is redoubled– redoubled-otherness defined as woman, as oriental, as “deviant” from puritanical amerikan values. and what about the stereotypical vision of “all Japanese men are women haters” or “all Japanese women are slaves”?
not to in any way dismiss your honest concerns on the engrained discriminatory culture(s) of Japanese society.
This comment was written by ig.greetings from your correspondent.
Report this comment to the moderators
April 19th, 2005 at 4:23 pm
Speaking of objectification….
This comment was written by Lancelot Link.In the Harajuku district, many shopkeepers hire black men to just stand in front of stores, to give them an “urban American ” look.
Report this comment to the moderators
April 20th, 2005 at 6:32 am
I love it–someone started a blog advocating to free the Gwenihana Four.
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
April 22nd, 2005 at 4:16 pm
I like this fashion its awesome! i cant wait till i go to japan i wanna dress up like that! muahahahaha and Gwen Stefani is kool! her best song in my opinion is Harajuku Girls! ^_^
Konnichiwa. Watashi wa no namae wa Meygan dess. Ja ne.
This comment was written by Meygan.Report this comment to the moderators
April 24th, 2005 at 11:31 am
[...]
by Andrea Rubenstein [tekanji] @ 10:31 am.
Ampersand of Alas takes on Gwen Stefani’s appropriation of Japansese “harajuku girl” cultur [...]
This comment was written by Official Shrub.com Blog » Blog Archive » Sunday Link Blogging.Report this comment to the moderators
April 24th, 2005 at 1:55 pm
Well, honestly, I don’t think that this kind of objectification is anything new. It’s another example of the music industry making a clever move to utilize a guaranteed pop success (Gwen) to create an image that is fresh and exciting (if only to the 14-17 yr old US and UK girls it’s aimed at). Of course its all about the money, and the lesbian overtones implied in her videos are to draw in a male interest of a similar age group. Since nu-punk and sk8r culture proved so successful among wannabe disillusuioned teens, record companies had to find a new culture for the next generation. In the past few years, the 10 and 11 year olds of the UK and USA have been watching Anime, and Japanese culture has begun to seep into their lives (Pokemon/Yu-Gi-Oh/Jet Set Radio). The record companies may be evil, but they’re not stupid, by taking advantage of this new Wannabe-Japanese culture inherent in those children (who are now 14 and 15 years old), they can strike when they have access to more disposable income than they will for a long time. Credit to Stefani though, it’s working for her, she’s a pop-princess and getting more famous than she did with No Doubt. I just hope she brings out something a little more credible, I’ve wanted to her release a great song since the days of Hellagood and Don’t Speak. I’ll be back.
This comment was written by Max wants a Harajuku Girl.P.S. I’ve seen some of the REAL Harajuku girls, I wanna go to Tokyo!
MAX, 17, UK.
Report this comment to the moderators
April 24th, 2005 at 10:23 pm
By the way, the song “If I Was A Rich Girl” is a cover of a reggae standard, borrowed from “Fiddler On the Roof.”
And if you know anything about the women in reggae and the money those artists don’t get, it’s ironic that Stefani is singing the rich girl bullshit at all. It’s aiming for tonuge-in-cheek but misses the mark.
Get real — she is rich and it ain’t cute.
This comment was written by Lauren.Report this comment to the moderators
April 25th, 2005 at 1:30 am
Has anyone noticed the dominating hold she has over the girls? she claims ownership of them, dresses them up and gives them names (love, angel, music & baby).
This comment was written by Willian Fey.I was under the idea that they were her posse, not the newest version of chihuahua. All she needs now is a collar and chain….
Report this comment to the moderators
April 25th, 2005 at 5:20 pm
Ok, let’s not get stupid with this. What Gwen is doing, is the same thing Hollywood would have done if they had grasped it before she did. Remeber, not everyone in America knew what a “valley girl” was before the song (Valley Girl) came out and they started popping up in almost every 80’s movie. No one really caught onto a particular dance until they saw Madonna’s “Vouge” video. Hell, even MC Hammer revived parachute pants in the early 90’s. Relax and just be glad that Gwen’s not trying to revive the “heroin model” look again.
This comment was written by Turtle.Report this comment to the moderators
April 26th, 2005 at 3:36 am
And what makes you think we wouldn’t be equally critical of Hollywood latching onto yet another “exotic” (gag) fashion and offering it up to whet our jaded appetites for the new and “different”?
This is in no way the same as Moon Zappa doing a Valley Girl accent: Valley Girls generally being white, middle-class American (ie “privileged”) types. This is a privileged American white woman capitalising on a load of ignorant, sexist stereotypes about the “East” in general and “exotic, submissive Oriental women” in particular. It’s also about–yet again–a celeb from the dominant group using non-dominant subcultures to boost her own degree of coolness. It’s appropriation and cultural plundering, and it’s frankly nauseating.
This comment was written by Crys T.Report this comment to the moderators
April 26th, 2005 at 5:43 am
STEFANI PISSES ME OFF!!!! As soon as I saw her video for rich girl I had to leave the room, she’s giving japanese fashion such a bad name…”Ill dress them up and give them names” wtf?? really shes the one who needs a wardrobe change…..Ive been an egg (japanese influenced) for 4 years now and the last thing I want is for her to drain any originality out of it. What happens when an actually japanese influenced band is created? Will it just be considered a knock off from stefani? i friggin hope not. And she admits to feeling stupid sometimes about starting this, thats not what I call dedication. I think she should have stuck with no Doubt or just drop out of the ring.
This comment was written by Samantha.Report this comment to the moderators
April 26th, 2005 at 6:55 am
Moon Zappa was invoking the sacred right to mock her own. This is mocking someone else.
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
April 26th, 2005 at 7:19 am
I think Madonna’s “Vogue” is probably a better analogy than Valley Girl: it’s another example of a pop star coopting a subculture to which she doesn’t belong and using it as a backdrop to focus attention on herself. I’m pretty sure some people were less-than-happy about that.
I actually wouldn’t have any problem if Stefani dressed in Japanese street fashion (which seems to me to be a lot about cultural appropriation and pastiche anyway, so it’s hard to get worked up about someone else “stealing” it) or was influenced by Japanese pop music. It’s the silent posse of “Harajuku girls” (a category that she invented, no?) that’s really sketchy. It’s using people as accessories.
This comment was written by Sally.Report this comment to the moderators
April 26th, 2005 at 7:53 am
I don’t like what Stefani’s doing because, on balance, it seems to incorporate a lot of racist stereotypes about “servile asian women,” as well as treating asian women as property. And I agree, it’s nauseating.
But I’m not sure about objecting to “appropriation and cultural plundering.” If all Stefani had done is base her own wardrobe on the creative ideas of Harajuku girls, that would certainly be an appropriation - but I don’t think it’s objectionable. Creativity and fashions are something that should be spread and imitated, including across cultural lines. (For that matter, I don’t think it takes anything away from the creativity of Harajuku girls to notice that a lot of what they do appropriates elements of past western fashions).
This comment was written by Ampersand.Report this comment to the moderators
April 26th, 2005 at 8:54 am
Cultural co-option is overrated–I agree. I want to see the people who hate it start decrying the existence of Wilco or Neko Case.
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
April 26th, 2005 at 10:48 am
I’ve had this argument so many times it’s getting a bit old for me personally, but I don’t think I’ve ever had it on this blog, so:
I think there’s a vast difference between doing a culture rip-off than there is incorporating elements of other cultures in your work with respect. For example, Madonna for years has managed to piss off any number of people by going in, scoping out elements of their cultures that she thinks she can capitalise on, and using them without any regard to context, or paying tribute.
Over the years, I’ve heard of people from India, lesbians, indigenous Australians, people from Spain, African-Americans (especially African American women), and various and sundry members of a number of “underground” type subcultures complain about Madonna’s using their cultures as a marketing tool for herself, without giving anything back or even really acknowledging the sources.
The other side of the coin can be illustrated by people like George Harrison, who showed a genuine love for Indian culture and music, or the Clash, who always, always tried to approach incorporating Black styles like reggae or rap with respect. And they *always* made sure to acknowledge the sources and pay tribute to the Black artists who inspired them.
I personally have never heard any Asian or British Asian comment that Harrison was an “appropriator”. In fact, Cornershop said they did their version of “Norwegian Wood” because they *liked* the way Indian culture had been incorporated in it, and Meera Syal refers to him as “Dear George”. And the same goes for the Black musicians I’ve heard mentioning the Clash. The closest I’ve heard to a criticism of them is Rachid Taha’s comments about “Rock the Casbah” (which he recently recorded himself), which he described as being slightly infantile–or words to that effect.
There are ways and ways of incorporating other influences into what you do, and the level of respect you show is a big part of determining whether you are being cool and international and groovy, or just a culture-plunderer.
Now this is the cue for tons of people posting examples of Indians and Jamaican musicians tearing George Harrison and the Clash to shreds……..
This comment was written by Crys T.Report this comment to the moderators
April 26th, 2005 at 11:27 am
Good distinction. There’s also a difference between incorporating/appropriating stuff and ideas and acquiring actual people.
This comment was written by piny.Report this comment to the moderators
April 26th, 2005 at 12:40 pm
hahahaha…..this is all sooooo amusing!! :D
This comment was written by Jolie.Report this comment to the moderators
April 26th, 2005 at 1:11 pm
No woman, in my opinion, should be made into a mute fashion accessory. Just the image of four non-white women trailing around behind a white woman, hanging on her every word and not being allowed to speak… Can you really say that this is a harmless affectation? Asian fetishism nor not, this is certianly female fetishism. Stefani should have just bought herself a new pair of diamond earrings instead of four slaves.
This comment was written by Starlight.Report this comment to the moderators
April 26th, 2005 at 2:09 pm
Crys T: I think at the same time one can look at a “collaborative” effort like Paul Simon’s “Graceland” and see how appropriation of music or memes, etc., disenfranchises those from which it originates. That being said, it’s a fine line between showing appreciation and appropriating something for your own gain. Especially when you are a very powerful person.
This comment was written by Q Grrl.Report this comment to the moderators
April 26th, 2005 at 2:49 pm
Crys, I think that’s a great distinction. It does have problems on the edges when the artist may not be appropriating it, but the audience is–witness the Beastie Boys, who are not “appropriating” hip hop by any stretch, but they do have audience members who essentially appropriate the Beastie Boys as a way to appropriate hip hop in general. In particular, the Beastie Boys are outspoken opponents of sexism and have openly regretted the sexism of their first album, but despite this, there’s a huge frat boy-type contigency that uses the Beastie Boys’ music for sexist ends, and they get away with it by appropriating the “cool” factor of hip hop.
This comment was written by Amanda Marcotte.Report this comment to the moderators
April 27th, 2005 at 5:49 am
Q: after I made my last post, “Graceland” did come to mind. I remember a while after it was released and got all that praise from critics, etc., it came out that the guys from Ladysmith Black Mambazo felt as if they’d been used. And I also remember Los Lobos relating a story about their working with Simon that was really critical of him, specifically for him getting a buzz off them but not really giving anything back.
Amanda: yeah, the situation you illustrated with the Beastie Boys is annoyingly common, too. Going back to the examples from my earlier post, all you need to do is look at the way people who’d been introduced to Indian music and culture by the Beatles and other 60s musicians latched onto the whole thing in a really superficial, exoticising, flavour-of-the-week way. And with the Clash, a lot of the fans who worshipped *them* when they did Black styles subjected artists like Mikey Dread and Bo Diddley to racist abuse when they toured with the band.
Like both of you said, there are fine lines and gray areas. But I don’t think that people like the Beastie Boys, who I know have come out time and again explaining their position, can really be held responsible for what their fans do, although I can imagine it must really frustrate them.
This comment was written by Crys T.Report this comment to the moderators
April 27th, 2005 at 9:12 am
I dont’ know about George Harrison specifically, but I know that a lot of Indian people were really annoyed by the hippie embrace of India, not because it was superficial or short-term, but because it was only interested in those aspects of Indian culture which were useful to rebellious Western young people. They felt that their own society was too competitive and commercialized and inauthentic, and they wanted to find a place that was spiritual and pure. And they just ignored the aspects of India that didn’t fit their bill. So they liked gurus and sitar players, but they weren’t at all interested in Bollywood or cricket culture, which looked too much like the mass commercial culture that they wanted to leave behind. To a lot of Indians, it’s just a positive gloss on the “noble savage” thing. I know a lot of Indian people who are totally fine with superficial cultural appropriation like dresses made out of sari fabric but not ok at all with the whole “magical, mystical East” thing, even when people devote their entire lives to it.
Actually, this goes back to amp’s post on Wendy Doniger. Most Indian people I know find her work really annoying: she has some kind of hangup about sex and religion, and she’s gone to India to find a religion that supposedly celebrates rather than represses sexuality. Her interest in India, they think, is really about *her*: her issues, her problems with “the West,” etc. It’s insulting to reduce India to some sort of field on which American intellectuals can work out their post-Freudian angst. On the other hand, my Indian friends find her Indian critics, who are ethnic essentialists and cultural purists, among other nasty things, down-right dangerous. And their problem isn’t with “Western” academics who study India or Hindusm: it’s with a particular American academic who seems to view India through the lens of her own hangups in an obvious and obnoxious way.
I guess I really don’t want to go too far in the other direction and argue that people must stay in their own little cultural boxes and never get involved in other people’s cultures. But it’s not easy for me to work out the rules for doing so. I’m sure that Wendy Doniger feels that she’s respecting Hinduism. It just doesn’t look like that to a lot of Hindus, some of whom have their own sketchy agendas.
Eek. Was that totally incoherent?
This comment was written by Sally.Report this comment to the moderators
April 27th, 2005 at 7:10 pm
Weird.. I just posted a small creative writing piece yesterday in the music section on this very subject. http://www.poplish.com. Starlight.. you go girl!
This comment was written by J.Report this comment to the moderators
April 28th, 2005 at 3:18 am
“I guess I really don’t want to go too far in the other direction and argue that people must stay in their own little cultural boxes and never get involved in other people’s cultures. But it’s not easy for me to work out the rules for doing so.”
Yeah, it’s not at all clear-cut. But I would say that at least part of it would have to involve dealing honestly with cultures. As you pointed out, young Westerners created this idealised vision of a “mystic, holy India” and completey ignored aspects of Indian culture that didn’t fit that image. That’s totally dishonest, not to mention insulting to the actual people who created/live in that culture.
This comment was written by Crys T.Report this comment to the moderators
April 29th, 2005 at 1:55 am
I’m seeing a major problem here: we’re creating a fiasco that need not exist. Do you think the infinitely more confident harajuku girls are even stunned by this so-called “outrage?” Somehow, I keep thinking they don’t care (which is half the appeal of the girls in the first place). So, why should we be making a big fuss? You, the same person who thinks it ridiculous that Gwen Stefani would do something so “terrible,” are handing power over to the pop icon. You’re making it seem like what she does and how she markets herself affects tho Tokyo streets, and, more importantly, the world. She has stated on numerous accounts that her actions are satirical representations of american culture and the idiosyncrasies that lie within. She even makes fun of herself on the album. “I can’t wait to go back and do Japan; Get me lots of brand new fans…” C’mon, people…don’t be so touchy. The harajuku girls wouldn’t.
This comment was written by Friday.Report this comment to the moderators
May 3rd, 2005 at 2:12 am
I agree with you Friday! Listen I have read all of u’r coments that you guys made but i have to say this to some people. I realy think you guys should just lighten up! See thats what I hate about people who critises others!! I mean Gwens isn’t realy stereo typing japanies gilrs or what not! She’s just doing something that she likes and she’s not damaging anyone in the process! I mean it realy frustrates me when people say ” ohhhhhh, Gwens is destroying the harajuiku culture” or ” ooohhhhh Gwen should stay in her own culural box” and there people who write their comment sssooooooo technicle to make it sound like a court case!!!!!!!!! ITS SOOOO STUPID!!!!! I realy think you guys need to lighten up and not make one little thing in to a whole court case!!!! LIGHTEN UP!!!!!! GGGGRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This comment was written by Tony.Report this comment to the moderators
May 3rd, 2005 at 3:24 am
It’s obviously important enough for you two to come to a forum that you would never normally frequent in order to defend some pop star, and the cultural privilege she represents.
This comment was written by Crys T.Report this comment to the moderators
May 3rd, 2005 at 11:39 am
Poor grammar! horrible spelling!
Excessive exclamation points!!!!!!!111oneoneone
it burrnnssss ussss!
This comment was written by karpad.Report this comment to the moderators
May 4th, 2005 at 9:53 am
Judge not lest ye be judged?
This comment was written by Kim.How about a little of that people?
Maybe some should consider that its just pop music?
It’s about fun and frolic and is not intended to “affect culture” or to bring about any great social change? They are just music videos people!!!!! Three to five minutes of fun - that’s it - that’s all.
Report this comment to the moderators
May 4th, 2005 at 10:00 am
And by the way - the Harajuku girls do not look, (to me), as though they mind all that much?
This comment was written by Kim.Oh my gosh - they actually look as though they might be having fun?
Report this comment to the moderators
May 5th, 2005 at 2:26 am
If that’s “all” it is, why are you so adamant about defending it? It must have a greater meaning for you that just “fun and frolic” or you wouldn’t bother trudging over here, to a place that I don’t think you come under normal circumstances, and make the effort to change people’s minds.
People don’t normally do that for no real reason.
No, you’ve come here to have your say because there’s something that’s bothering you to the point where you have to speak up about it. Otherwise, you’d have just laughed the whole thing off.
What you are talking about is covered in Feminism 101. And frankly, I’m not going to be your teacher on that one: I’ve had to do it far, far too many times already in my life. If you actually do give a damn about this, do some research on your own and maybe learn about it.
It *isn’t* all “fun and frolic”. What Stefani is doing is carrying a message, and I think that message is very unhealthy. I also think it’s frankly stupid, not to mention sexist and racist.
This comment was written by Crys T.Report this comment to the moderators
May 5th, 2005 at 4:41 am
I honestly don’t know what the big issue is here. In case you haven’t noticed, RAPPERS USE WOMEN AS HUMAN ACCESORIES!! And I also don’t think Gwen does that in real life, IT’S JUST FOR PUBLICITY, it’s not like the Harajuku girls follow her everywhere 24/7. However, when rappers use girls as human accessories/sex toys, I find it offensive. And what’s this “lesbian” thing people are talking about; I didn’t see any of that.
This comment was written by Cammy.Report this comment to the moderators
May 5th, 2005 at 7:29 am
I’m not sure why exactly you think it’s offensive when rappers use women as accessories but just fine when Gwen Stefani does it, Cammy. What’s the difference, in your mind?
This comment was written by Sally.Report this comment to the moderators
May 5th, 2005 at 8:44 am
Why on earth would you assume that we hadn’t noticed? Why would you assume that we aren’t critical of it when we see it?
I’m also interested in why you only find it offensive when “rappers” use women as accessories, but not when Stefani does it.
And that justifies it how? To me, it almost makes it worse: she’s using this racist, sexist imagery, but only to make an easy buck off it. Great. For me, it’s easier to understand piggish behaviour when the person in question just doesn’t know any better–to say they do know better but they’re still doing it for their own material gain makes that behaviour seem infinitely more piggish.
I find it offensive when rappers use women as accessories, and when white boy rock stars use women as accessories, or when sleazy lounge singers use women as accessories, or when sports stars use women as accessories….and also when Gwen Stefani uses women as accessories. I don’t make exceptions on unacceptable behaviour just because I happen to enjoy what the person who commits that behaviour does.
This comment was written by Crys T.Report this comment to the moderators
May 5th, 2005 at 8:53 am
Have you watched the video? … you know the part where two different women run their hands over Stefani’s crotch?
This comment was written by Q Grrl.Report this comment to the moderators
May 5th, 2005 at 3:13 pm
It seems funny to me how those that disagree with another’s opinion always result to insulting their intelligence.
This comment was written by Kim.Some of us do not watch music videos, television shows, any media really, to be enlightened or educated. I went to school for that. I merely stated that some, including myself, watch music videos and other media to be “ENTERTAINED”.
If her supposed message bothers you so much Crys T, maybe instead of coming to various websites to whine and complain about it with no effect, get off that computer chair and go do something about it!
Report this comment to the moderators
May 6th, 2005 at 1:02 am
Where have I done that to you?
So it’s okay then if that “ENTERTAINMENT” includes racist, sexist, culture-plundering imagery (as long as it’s not being done by “rappers”–then it IS offensive), coz, hey, after all we’re not in SCHOOL now–we can just relax and pretend that these things don’t hurt real people in the real world.
No, I don’t buy that one, either.
Firstly, what “various” websites???? I’ve discussed this here—a place I come to on a regular basis and discuss many topics on–and possibly *one* other feminist site that I also visit regularly. Isn’t it you who’s going round to sites you never would normally visit to post about this? And also, exactly what do you know about my real life? How do you know what I am involved with and what I do when I’m not online? Nothing. Isn’t that right?
Now maybe you can get round to answering my questions: why is using women as accessories only offensive when “rappers” do it and not when Gwen Stefani does it? And why do you assume that those of us who have criticised Stefani on this thread are unaware and/or uncritical of those rappers?
This comment was written by Crys T.Report this comment to the moderators
May 6th, 2005 at 1:05 am
Ah dammit: “How do you know what I am involved with and what I do when I’m not online? Nothing. Isn’t that right?” Should be “WHAT do you know what I am involved with and what I do when I’m not online? Nothing. Isn’t that right?”
Jeez, there go any feeble remnants of dignity I might have mustered…….
This comment was written by Crys T.Report this comment to the moderators
May 6th, 2005 at 6:38 am
First - these are your words - “I’ve had this argument so many times it’s getting a bit old for me personally, but I don’t think I’ve ever had it on this blog, so”. That’s what I mean by “various”? websites????”.
Second, the reference to my intellgence went to suggesting that I needed a “teacher”.
Third, you are confusing me with somene else, I never said anything about rappers, etc. ( I believe that was “Cammy”)
I’m not trying to change anyones mind. What I am defending is the artists right to express herself without people judging who she is because of it.
Is Stephen King a monster because he writes about them?
What I don’t understand is why people feel a need to suggest that because they disagree, or don’t get the nature of her intention, it is wrong?
Could it possibly be that Miss Stefani makes her music for fun, and yes, money?
Maybe she doesn’t consider the “message” she is sending to young kids because it is not her place to consider that?
Parents and clergy are those to impart morals and values, not musicians, actors, etc.
If you have children and are opposed to Gwen’s “message” then it is your right and responsibility to not listen to it, buy it, or to allow it in your home.
She has the right to express herself in which ever way she chooses and to suggest that she is piggish and stupid because you don’t agree with her is closed minded behavior and in itself hints at oppression and censorship. You are a femnist are you not? Do femnists not fight against that very behavior?
It is a music video, pure and simple.
How about using your intelligent mind to end violence, poverty, and world hunger rather than pointless criticism of artistic expression?
You know stuff that matters?
Using the words of a wise man named “Tony”, LIGHTEN UP!!!!!!!!!!
This comment was written by Kim.Report this comment to the moderators
May 6th, 2005 at 8:09 am
This is Sally. I’ m posting from a public computer, and I still can’t figure out how to not have it remember my info. (What gives, amp?)
I don’t believe that artists, or anyone else, have the right to be protected from criticism. Free speech cuts both ways: people have the right to say what they want, and other people have the right to criticize what they say. That’s kind of basic to the whole idea of free speech.
It’s not her place to consider the consequences of her words and actions? I would say that it’s everyone’s place to consider that. I would say that a society in which lots of people don’t consider the consequences of their behavior isn’t going to work very well.
Ok, let me get this straight. If we say that Gwen Stefani shouldn’t treat women of color like accessories, we’re “hinting” (nice vague word there) at oppression and censorship. But if you say that we shouldn’t express our opinion of Stefani’s video, that’s not hinting at censorship at all.
Free speech doesn’t mean the right to speak freely without being criticised. It means that if people are free to speak, and if other people are free to contradict and criticize and point out the flaws, and if still other people can rebutt the critiques, etc., then we’ll all have access to the widest range of ideas and we will all be in a position to judge for ourselves whose position makes sense. The whole idea relies on the duty of citizens to criticize and discuss other people’s speech.
If you would like to defend Gwen Stefani, go ahead and exercise your right to free speech by coming up with a coherent defense of her. But that’s not what you’re doing here. You’re telling her critics to shut up. And that makes me think that you just can’t come up with a defense.
Racism doesn’t matter?
This comment was written by No one.Report this comment to the moderators
May 6th, 2005 at 8:45 am
Firstly, my apologies for confusing you with Cammy. My bad.
Ah jeez, when I said I’d had this argument “too many times” I wasn’t talking about Stefani, I was talking about the fact that just because women participate in something of their own will, that does NOT mean that the event/behaviour in question is automatically cleared of being sexist.
“Second, the reference to my intellgence went to suggesting that I needed a “teacher”?.”
That’s your interpretation of it, but it’s certainly not mine. We all need teachers about certain topics: none of us is expert in everything. That doesn’t make us “unintelligent”. The problem is that I’ve come across too many people who make it obvious that they need to be educated on the basics about how prejudice, stereotyping, and, above all, social power and hegemony work, and at this particular moment in my life, I simply don’t have the time to teach. If you need to have it explained to you why the fact that the Harajuku women in question are participating doesn’t magically make Stefani’s racist/sexist use of them a-okay, you will have to look to someone else for an explanation. That’s all.
“I’m not trying to change anyones mind. What I am defending is the artists right to express herself without people judging who she is because of it.”
Oh here we go again………look, “freedom of speech” DOES NOT and NEVER HAS meant that you get to say whatever halfbaked crap comes into your brain without anyone else’s being able to criticise you for it. You can say the crap, but you had better be prepared for others’ exercising THEIR right to tear that crap to shreds. If an artist behaves in a sexist/racist/any other sort of offensive way, I have every right in the world to be critical, and voice my opinion when and however I choose. OK? That is NOT censorship or any other repressive thing: Stefani is getting up my nose, it’s my right to say so. I’m not trying to stop her. I’m just giving my two cents. That’s how the whole concept of freedom of expression works.
And saying you “aren’t trying to change anyone’s mind” is not exactly honest. OF COURSE you are. You wouldn’t be coming here writing such a long post in such a vehement manner if you weren’t. I’m not saying you shouldn’t try to change minds if that’s what you want to do, but please be honest about it.
“Is Stephen King a monster because he writes about them?”
No, but if he writes about monstrous things in a way that makes it appear he endorses them, then he is fair game for harsh criticism.
“What I don’t understand is why people feel a need to suggest that because they disagree, or don’t get the nature of her intention, it is wrong?”
If I disagree, then why the hell SHOULDN’T I say it’s wrong? Would you disagree with my running through the streets, slapping everyone I meet across the face with a large dead fish? Wouldn’t you then have the right to say I’d be wrong for doing so? If a person is doing something that I honestly feel is promoting racist and sexist attitudes, where do you or anyone else get off telling me that I can’t object to that behaviour? What sort of a world would it be if none of us had the right to criticise behaviour we saw as harmful?
And you know what: in my opinion, I “get” what Stefani is doing just fine. I just happen to think it sucks.
“Could it possibly be that Miss Stefani makes her music for fun, and yes, money?”
Fine. Let her go to town on that, I have no problem at all with that. Just let her do it without exploiting faux-lesbian imagery, appropriating other cultures and promoting stupid “exotic” racist and sexist attitudes about Japanese (or any other) women. If she can’t, then I am going to criticise her.
“Maybe she doesn’t consider the “message”? she is sending to young kids because it is not her place to consider that? Parents and clergy are those to impart morals and values, not musicians, actors, etc.”"
Oh please. She isn’t resposible for her own actions? BULLSHIT. It’s EVERYONE’S responsibilty to consider how our actions are going to affect others. That’s what’s called “society”, you know? And it isn’t just “young kids” I’m considering. This idea that those in the media can get away with any sort of shitty action just because they’re in “entertainment” is a load of crap.
“She has the right to express herself in which ever way she chooses and to suggest that she is piggish and stupid because you don’t agree with her is closed minded behavior and in itself hints at oppression and censorship.”
Yeah, yeah….I knew this one was coming. See above. My exercising my right to freedom of expression IN NO WAY constitutes an attack on Stefani’s right to freedom of expression. Jeez, what is wrong with the educational system these days that so many people don’t seem to be able to work out that elementary piece of logic? Stefani has the right to do and say what she likes; well guess what, so do I.
“It is a music video, pure and simple.”
Nothing pure or simple about music videos. I suggest you try Googling the word “semiotics” and maybe “Roland Barthes” and have a read. Also, try “discourse analysis”. And you know, even “hegemony” might be good.
And here I said I wasn’t going to play teacher.
This comment was written by Crys T.Report this comment to the moderators
May 6th, 2005 at 3:44 pm
I didn’t even notice this first time round: “the artists right to express herself without people judging who she is because of it”
Why on earth would you “express yourself” if you DIDN’T want people to judge “who you are” because of it? Isn’t that the whole point of “expressing yourself” in the first place???
This comment was written by Crys T.Report this comment to the moderators
May 7th, 2005 at 6:28 pm
This is creepy, i didn’t realize gwen did this, although i saw her “hollaback” video, which also creeped me out. The use of asian women and “bananas” suggests promotion of white washed asian (bananas)…
But this.. this i’ll have to spread around…
This comment was written by AnimeJet.Report this comment to the moderators
May 10th, 2005 at 11:26 am
well, i say anybody who doesn’t like gwen stefani and her new statements, can all just fuck off and go to hell. if you don’t like it, get off and move on! gwen stefani is the good shit and harajuku girls do have pretty damn wicked style. Gwen can do whatever the hell she wants. think about this way, she is making millions of dollars, while us average people are lucky enough to afford college or at least a decent paying job. if i were in gwen’s position, hell i’d do whatever it takes to keep that money rolling in. she just went solo, and she is doing very well. so why don’t everybody just get off her back and give her a fucking break! damn!
This comment was written by Sara Craft.Report this comment to the moderators
May 10th, 2005 at 12:26 pm
…Gwen?
This comment was written by piny.Report this comment to the moderators
May 10th, 2005 at 3:42 pm
you know, if Gwen Stefani was using black women as her human accessories, it would have been more of a controversy. Since asians are so passive, it’s not so much of an issue.
Gwen can do whatever the hell she wants. think about this way, she is making millions of dollars, while us average people are lucky enough to afford college or at least a decent paying job.
and like Sara Craft says, since Gwen is a “rich girl”, she can do whatever she wants, like kill people, or stick a BANANA up her ass, or misrepresent Japanese women. So please, leave Gwen alone.
This comment was written by Sunny.Report this comment to the moderators
May 10th, 2005 at 8:46 pm
all the time spent on these posts u guys could’ve already freed the 4 harajukus
This comment was written by Stacy.Report this comment to the moderators
May 10th, 2005 at 10:34 pm
my god, you’re right!
if only we expressed our outrage more physically, by, you know, committing a major crime, like killing Gwen Stefani because we think she’s objectifying women and perpetuating negative racial stereotypes!
but we’re those lazy, hippy bunch, who think using the first amendment to express distaste at such ideas and hopefully encourage others to poo poo it, thus encouraging slow, grassroots action is a much better idea than killing people.
Miss Craft, perhaps you missed the point: we in fact, think the harajuku fashions are wicked awesome. we also recognize, that this sort of thing means that in 4 months, Hot Topic will be selling “Stefaniwear Harajuku skirts” for 70 dollars.
This comment was written by karpad.and we don’t want that to fucking happen. because when something shows up at hot topic, it INSTANTLY ceases to be cool to anyone who’s graduated high school.
Report this comment to the moderators
May 11th, 2005 at 9:23 am
Hello…
I’ve been reading all the comments about the G4 case and there is nothing new about it. I guess all the singers have been doing that even b4 Gwen had the idea to. I unfortunately have no access to all the info you guys have because I live in Brasil. But I don’t remember any pop stars not using back dancers or whatever you call them to illustrate a point. Madonna comes to my mind and all those rapper dudes with that almost naked girls in all their videos and that is considered cool. You may ask lots of guys. Tell them to forget the politically correct issues and answer if they would not like lots of half naked girls all around them all the time.
Unfortunatelly, Gwen bumped into a subject she had no idea (in my oppinion, maybe i’m being naive) she would have to face. I guess she just wanted to illustrate the harajuku style she likes so much and Wham! she is now criticized about that. Sometimes whe don’t even know we are doing it, but we are being sexists and all the other “ists” . It has so much roots inside of us we didn’t even know it was there.
Maybe if they were not dancing with her and just performed a fashion show like they using a catwalk during it showing the clothes harajuku girls use to wear, things would not been seen the way they are now. The damage is done. She maybe didn’t realize she was reinforcing the idea of submission the Asian girls are known to be. Not that it’s true of course, but again, some people thing Brasilian girls are easy and we brasilians live in jungles, with monkeys in the streets and all sort of exoctic animals around us. That’s again lack of knowledge and prejudice.
Finally I would like to express that I’m soooo against the idea of submission. I don’t know if the G4 is really following Gwen whatever she goes but if so, all i have to say is that is has to stop.
Ps.: please forgive my mistakes. :o( I’m not used to write in english as much as I did now. - GIRL POWER!
—— Maria Rita
This comment was written by Maria Rita.Report this comment to the moderators
May 12th, 2005 at 10:59 am
hey i think harajuku style id the bomb and its so cool that gwen stefani is represenin them! any ways you guys rock its so cool and um were do u shop? how much is everything?
This comment was written by Lucinda motyka.Report this comment to the moderators
May 13th, 2005 at 2:37 am
Sunny:
Please tell me that is sarcasm, and not repulsively ignorant racism.
What exactly do you think it is that we are “doing to” her? How *is* Stefani being harmed by a discussion on an Internet forum that she has probably never even heard of?
karpad:
Yeah, evil of us, isn’t it?
This comment was written by Crys T.Report this comment to the moderators
May 13th, 2005 at 11:11 am
Ummm, actually, I think I really did read Sunny’s post wrong the first time round. If I did, Sunny, please accept my apologies.
This comment was written by Crys T.Report this comment to the moderators
May 22nd, 2005 at 5:30 pm
Too true!! What is wrong with name-checking your inspiration.
I notice that many Christians do it when singing about God and Jesus. Dub music and Reggae often credits Jah, Haile Salassi, and Marijuana. Songs and tracks are littered with references to a source of inspiration whether it is through blatant sampling, subtle and intricate vocal reference, or even rhythm pattern arrangements.
In any case, Miss Stefani is in the pop industry which is about entertainment and shouldn’t be taken so seriously. She doesn’t seem to advocate racial hatred, violence or anything negative in her songs. That doesn’t make you popular, which is a key factor in being a pop star.
This comment was written by robokid.Report this comment to the moderators
May 23rd, 2005 at 12:41 pm
Haters
This comment was written by Della.Report this comment to the moderators
May 23rd, 2005 at 1:13 pm
I wouldnt bet on that.
This comment was written by Tuomas.Report this comment to the moderators
May 25th, 2005 at 2:14 am
which part shouldn’t i bet on??
This comment was written by robokid.Advocation of racial hatred etc?
Or that not being popular?
Report this comment to the moderators
May 25th, 2005 at 6:45 am
I was unclear. Lets say I wouldnt bet that advocating racial hatred, violence or anything negative doesn’t make one popular. (And I don’t believe miss Stefani is advocating these things, but only that there is plenty of racist, violence-glorifying stuff in the entertainment industry that sells well. So it wrong to say these things won’t make you popular, because they can.)
This comment was written by Tuomas.Report this comment to the moderators
May 25th, 2005 at 8:45 am
I’d also like to add that just because Stefani is not advocating racial hatred, that does not in any way, shape or form mean that she isn’t presenting racist imagery.
God, what is it about her fans that makes them not get that having 4 Japanese women mutely following you around plays into all sorts of hateful stereotypes about Asian women?
This comment was written by Crys T.Report this comment to the moderators
May 25th, 2005 at 12:08 pm
the 4 japanese women mutely following her around are not forced to do it. they get a tidy wage. it could be viewed that what they are involved with is a form of performance art. i must add here that i am NOT saying thats what it is, but just keep your minds open a little. if the debate is about how Stefani is playing on stereotypes of Asian women we must ask why these Asian women are allowing themselves to be exploited. Are they REALLY enslaved to Gwen?
i’m not a fan of hers but am simply interested in the debate, though because i haven’t wholeheartedly agreed to the case against her, I seem to have been stereotyped as a fan.
Why do stereotypes exist?
They exist for a very specific reason. It is easier to create a demographic by using similar/like terms. Stereotyping isn’t good, and unfortunately i find myself stereotyped one way or another all the time, but that is how humans function as a society and are able to describe other groups. It make things easier to work out for some and makes it easier to discuss different cultures. Culture is in itself a stereotype. we must be objective about this.
Any image someone feels is negative about culture can be seen as racist. This doesn’t mean that the image is inaccurate. What if a culture is by and large happy (no i’m not suggesting that in this case badly treated asian women are happy) who says it is right to change it? All the problems Bush has created, and he was still voted in by a relatively slim majority. This still leaves at least half the nation oppressed under a regime they do not agree with. do you see my point?
I don’t reckon Gwen was accurately displaying a culture, but i don’t think she was trying to.
This comment was written by robokid.Report this comment to the moderators
May 25th, 2005 at 12:12 pm
true - worked for bush…..
This comment was written by robokid.but if popularity is majority consent - who is the minority to try and change that?
sorry folks just curious…
Report this comment to the moderators
May 25th, 2005 at 12:57 pm
robokid:
This comment was written by Tuomas.Well, of course minority must be allowed to speak out and describe their point of view. Hopefully it will change attitudes that people have, and things that are popular (but wrong/unjust) cease to be popular. Tyranny by majority is a tricky thing, and that’s why there must be things that are not subject to popular vote (like the most basic human rights).
Good points about stereotyping (and Bush, even though I’m not from the US, but that and Bush is a seperate issue), everyone is stereotyped in some way. And please don’t return the favor by stereotyping commentors here as close-minded or anything else either. Commentors here seem to be coming from all over the world and from different lifestyles etc. hardly a homogenous group.
Report this comment to the moderators
May 25th, 2005 at 1:34 pm
Thanks Tuomas.
The real point here, however, is that the people who are coming to defend Stefani on this thread are doing so because they are her fans, and not because they have a real interest in discussing–or even actually thinking about–the issues that have been raised.
And we’re the “closeminded” ones……………………….yuh-huh.
This comment was written by Crys T.Report this comment to the moderators
May 25th, 2005 at 1:55 pm
Crys T:
This comment was written by Tuomas.You’re welcome.
Come to think of it, I myself didn’t get what was wrong with Gwen Stefanis’ music videos and that harajuku girls thing until I read this post, some arguments for and against, and pondered it for a while. I was objective (in fact, I might have been slightly biased against the premise of this post, it did seem like a non-issue to me, and I think Gwen Stefani is o.k. if not great) and came to the conclusion “Damn, those are the classic stereotypes of asian women she’s portraying, and the girls are used as passive human accessories”. I think no one is claiming it is slavery or the biggest wrong in the world, but it is slightly obnoxious anyway.
Report this comment to the moderators
May 25th, 2005 at 3:02 pm
sorry, didn’t mean to stereotype all commentors as closed minded. obviously that isn’t the case or we wouldn’t be engaging in such discourse. i think the diverse views show clearly that the only stereotype that can be applied here is that contributors are able to use a computer.
i think you may have missed everything i wrote. i am certainly not making any defence because i am a fan of Stefani. I am 30 and produce underground electronic music in the north of england. i am involved with an underground scene that has been exploited left right and centre for its music fashion and imagery for the last decade and a half. i do not listen to pop or have anything to do with a commercial scene. my records are to get music out not to make cash. I found this thread as one of many linked to the word Harajuku. I sometimes watch a music channel at a flat where i support two autistic gentlemen and so have seen Stefani’s Harajuku obsession. i was following this up. which stereotype do i fit in to that you still assume i am a fan for having a balanced viewpoint?
maybe it is just that black or white, if you defend, you are a fan i guess. get off your high horse and take a look at the real world. what do you think the discussion is about.
the problem is it seems you cannot see past your blinkered view Crys T, that anyone who disagrees with you MUST be a fan. it seems that it is really you who is unable to discuss or even think about the issues raised as you seem completely blind to the discussion.
maybe you should learn to be a little less judgemental.
This comment was written by robokid.Report this comment to the moderators
May 25th, 2005 at 3:24 pm
Robokid: look, this conversation has been going on for a long time. In fact, it had died down till a couple of Stefani fans came back and revived it a day or so ago.
If you’re so bothered, why don’t you read the entire thread, go away and think about it, and then make an argument that actually addressed the issues of sexism, racism and cultural appropriation that have been raised by others above, rather than just repeating the already-debunked idea that, hey, these women are getting paid, so what’s the problem?
I’m personally sick of having to rehash–ONE MORE TIME–of why the mere fact that women participate in a given situation does not immediately negate the possibility of exploitation and sexism. As I said in an earlier post, that is Feminism 101 and I’m not here to be your teacher. In case you hadn’t noticted, this is a feminist/political blog, not a music-related one, so I don’t think it’s unreasonable of me to expect people who come here to be informed.
Also, there are plenty of regular posters here whose opinions I vehemently disagree with, but I wouldn’t accuse them of trolling because I know that they’re here in good faith. Even if I can’t stand their ideas.
I’m not “blind” to any discussion: this discussion was dead and buried before you even got here, and decided that *your* interpretation of what was going on was to be the accepted theme to follow. Sorry, pal. No.
This comment was written by Crys T.Report this comment to the moderators
May 26th, 2005 at 1:20 am
funny that, still wrong on idea of me being a fan writing in defence of the pop star, and wrong on the idea i haven’t read the entire thread AND given thought. If its so dead and i’m so wrong, why are you writing back.
This comment was written by robokid.Report this comment to the moderators
May 26th, 2005 at 8:08 pm
Hi!,
This comment was written by Em.sorry, i know this discussion is dead and i dont really want to start the whole thing again. i just wanted to say
(a) this whole thing was damn intresting (i just read the whole thing)
and thank you all for your opion, but also i would like to ask for some information. im doing a research project on Japan and chose the HArajuku street fashion as my topic (hence me comming here) and am going to discuss the whole topic of the Gewn thing (i havent decided im for or against yet, i need more time and info) and so was wondering if anyone here could send me any other websites about the g-4? or specific interviews and stuff….my email is Back_b4_dawb@hotmail.com
so yeah, uhhh thanks alot. i appreaicate is (and so will my society and culture teacher)
Report this comment to the moderators
June 14th, 2005 at 8:45 am
[...] ething?
It’s OK… plenty of people are out there being bitter for them.
Alas, a blog ĆĀ» Blog Archive ĆĀ» Harajuku fashion - if your looking for
This comment was written by soulhuntre » core/dump » Gwenihana!.b [...]
Report this comment to the moderators
June 15th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
I think after seeing America’s Next Top Model Series One when they went to Tokyo and had go shopping and create a cheap but unique look explains alot about how harajuku girls work. Stefani isn’t the first person to capitalise on Asian fashion, Victorian dresses, Lace, black gothic makeup and clothes, kimonos and silk and waist belts have been features on Paris and Milan runways for years. Now that Stefani is becoming a designer AND singer, her use of the four harajuku girls is for Inspiration. They are akin to being Muses for her. There is a song on her album (track 7) stating that she is their biggest fan, and that they inspired her latest collection of designer clothes (L.A.M.B.) But Stefani still retains her Americanism and puts her inspiration into something American (or british, or australian) Teens.
This comment was written by AussieTara.Most of all, harajuku is meant to inspire US to mix and match, to buy unique antique pieces and make them our own, to go rooting around op shops, and flaunt your own unique style.
Report this comment to the moderators
June 16th, 2005 at 1:00 am
“Most of all, harajuku is meant to inspire US to mix and match, to buy unique antique pieces and make them our own, to go rooting around op shops, and flaunt your own unique style. ”
This comment was written by BritGirlSF.Have you ever considered that mostly Harajuku fashion isn’t really “meant” to have any impact on Western cultures at all? Hey, don’t get me wrong, I’m a huge anime fan and have more than a passing interest in modern Japanese youth culture (and an Asian husband and a Japanese gal pal who would drag me to see anime and to shop for Japanese-produced clothes even if I wasn’t so obsessed with the whole thing) BUT I’m just not arrogant enough to imagine that the whole culture was designed purely to provide inspiration/comfort/joy/whatever to a bunch of Westerners. Japanese street fashion is a visual conversation that a bunch of Japanese kids are having with each other. It’s not about us. I think that the issue that a lot of people have with Stefani is that she’s taken what was a really cool subversive little subculture and completely de-fanged it. Her version is boring. Plus, she’s reinforcing the submissive Asian woman stereotype and basically using her dancers like living accessories. It’s creepy.
If she really wanted to pay some kind of homage to Japanese youth culture, why not invite one of the top J-Pop stars to guest on her record and appear in her videos? There are tons of pop stars in Japan who make music that would fit in pretty easily with her style. Plus, the fashion movement she’s riffing on is intrinsically tied up with the music anyway. What I’m trying to say is, if she just wanted to call attention to a cool subculture that she admires there are ways to do that without reinforcing negative stereotypes and completely disconnecting the look from the scene that produced it. The way she’s approaching it looks like colonialism, and that’s what seems to be annoying people.
Report this comment to the moderators
June 18th, 2005 at 1:05 pm
I agree with sooo many people here that Gwen Stefani is abusing the Asian culture. I’m not Japanese, but I’m Chinese and I’m sure most of us know more about the Japanese culture than Stefani does. I find her songs most annoying; THIS SHIT IS B-A-N-A-N-A-S BANANAS~ Oh God, the fake stuck-up Gwen fans are just singing it every single minute of the day. I just hope it won’t happen again.
I also find that she shouldn’t be wearing that either. According to the girls in her music videos that are supposedly in the ‘Japanese culture’, they don’t even look or dress Japanese. Also, Gwen is trying to act cute but has she forgotten how old she is? Later on in her ‘Hollaback Gurl’ music video, she’s wearing this suit that is most unappropriate. She looks like a fob and she should just retire because…She is one of the most annoying artists I have ever seen.
If it were to be someone bringing the Asian culture into America or so, I don’t think Gwen Stefani is the right person for it. In fact, she’s actually making the Japanese culture look bad. It’s making some people think that Japanese girls all have some ditzy stuck-up attitude and a valley girl’s accent yet they don’t. In short, she’s ruining the reputation of “pop” music, the reputation of the “Japanese” culture, the meaning of music (which is not to continuously spell out bananas), and…what she should wear at her age.
This comment was written by La~.Report this comment to the moderators
July 7th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
Wow, a lot of conversation floating around here….
Well, I understand as seeing the issue of sexism/racism. Yet, as I am looking, Harajuku girls (including boys) dress up every Sunday, stand around and talk, giving off the young teenage vibes of fashion and such. But, besides getting out of school work and giving the rebellious punk attitude, they’re actually modeling to be picked-up by someone, like a photographer. These are people who WANT to be models and such. Image is all about acessory, and as far as I am concerned, most models have no expression and never speak.
So, if people with high fashion make that choice, it’s they’re choice. In my personal opinion, the Harajuku Girls, hanging by Gwen’s side, represent those models back in Japan,who stand on the sides, posing silently for the cameras. But, these girls are being paid as models. I am sure they get to talk later and such. Actually, they do sing with Gwen in her “Harajuku Girls” song and such. She has her own clothing line for them. It’s her display to show she likes their fashion.
I understand that it’s everyone’s choice to criticize, but it’s also everyone’s choice to defend. I know people come back and defend their own criticism. To be honest, that is nothing but a possible few small words to some people. If Gwen was choosing racism, then I guess models should be hired by racist agencies and such, using their bodies to promote clothing. But, it’s only my opinion to stand by. Whether it stirs something up, or you want to call me a dumb Gwen fan, I’ll go by it, or whatever your standards are. Not everyone has to love everyone, so I respect your judgement.
If in your eyes, you behold that Gwen is an evil posessing bitch, then you must go through the army in order to strike the castle. That’s all my “small” advice to you might be.
And, yes, perhaps I AM defending her as a fan. But, it has more than just being obnoxious and blindness. It’s my choice to hold, and if you want to criticize it, well make yourself feel like abig kid again. But, note, you wouldn’t like it if I bashed someone you looked up to. I think in areas of being open-minded, you shouldn’t criticize the fans. . .
This comment was written by Velvey.Report this comment to the moderators
July 7th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
[Just to add but forgot...]
Oh, and while you think about it, mostly, alot of Japanese fashion is inspired by Western clothing. It’s a very popular thing to have English words on your shirt or American brands. I wouldn’t say it shouldn’t be pushed on Americans, cause it’s they’re fashion to love, but fashion is eventually spread and used by most. And, hey, at least Gwen isn’t part of H!P, or someone likes Ai Otsuka. =0
This comment was written by Velvey.Report this comment to the moderators
July 19th, 2005 at 8:04 am
Japanese fashion culture is just an alien world to us, so most of your claims or speculations : “this is wrong” “they’re dragqueens” “lesbians” “etc etc etc” just don’t apply here.
In harajuku you see girls with dog colars being dragged by someone else and that doesn’t mean even by far that they’re into S&M. You could also see musicians wearing Nazi symbols on their arms and they too weren’t into the nazi ideals.
It’s a world where fashion is just fashion with no kind of prejudice and I find that to be amazing. It’s like they’ve reached another step when it comes to society.
*i appolize for my english*
This comment was written by Joana BĆĀ”rbara.If anyone wants to talk mor about this subject e-mail me : utapurojecuto@hotmail.com
^_^;
Report this comment to the moderators
July 25th, 2005 at 9:59 pm
I agree that it is demeaning somewhat to women, however “if” she were a male artist I just wouldn’t listen, and yes my child is very against “my” music! And loves what anyone else likes! And I don’t think Gwen stays up with the news to know there is a problem with crimes against women in Japan as stated by someone else! I think that part is a complete coincidence. Yes, her abs and whole fit body make me sick like alot of women griping here! Wait till she has kids!!! If you don’t like it, don’t listen, if you don’t want your kids listen, don’t gripe, or else your doing more against your fight if you feel like your sitting idly. Geez, go for Marilyn Manson if you need something.
This comment was written by vetgirl.Report this comment to the moderators
July 26th, 2005 at 7:52 am
Oh, christ, the Gwen Stephani fangirls have come to defend their idol.
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
July 27th, 2005 at 11:44 am
Hey Ginmar, do I really sound like a fan?? Read the words, and maybe you should let them sink in for a moment, because your not getting my point! I agreed that it was all crazy, but we’re not talking about the war, or anything more important than that. I’m sure Gwen is a sheltered pop star, using whatever makes her more popular, and all these posts on here help her acheive that! I could care less what means she’s using to make her more popular! And when she comes on the radio, I switch the channel. Does that sound like a fangirl or that I idolize her????? Read before you post, you must have some intelligence!!! Correct???
This comment was written by vetgirl.Report this comment to the moderators
July 27th, 2005 at 12:46 pm
I wonder??????? how many punctuation ,!# marks I can use randomly…………………….
This comment was written by Robert.Report this comment to the moderators
July 27th, 2005 at 1:36 pm
Come on, Robert, you’re not a true FAN!!!!!! unless you totally miss the point and bitch and moan about how your idol is being maligned!!!!!
Oh, and don’t use words like malign, either.
If they’d just say, “U jus jellus’ it would save every one a great deal of time.
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
July 28th, 2005 at 11:13 am
Robert, your showing your complete stupidity by not knowing how to use punctuation. That is usually something that is taught to you in school. By your message it is kinda looking obvious that you didn’t make it that far. P.S. I tried to minimize the punctuation marks so as not to confuse you.
This comment was written by vetgirl.Report this comment to the moderators
July 28th, 2005 at 12:22 pm
actually, vetgirl, sweetie, if you want to lecture someone on intelligence it would behoove you to demonstrate a bit of it yourself—say, for example, by not getting the correct useage of ‘you’re’ and ‘your’ confused. Also, someone who thinks this:
Does that sound like a fangirl or that I idolize her????? Read before you post, you must have some intelligence!!! Correct???
demonstrates anything but a jammed keyboard is not in a position to lecture anyone else.
Plus, you made me defend Robert. That alone is enough to make me dislike you, your girlcrush on Stephani, her ludicrous pretenses, and pretty much anything else I can think of. Good job.
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
July 28th, 2005 at 12:52 pm
I have been dissed by vetgirl,,,,,,,,now I weep!!!!!!!!!!!!! so much!!!!!!!!!! I will take my Gwen Stephani albums and hug them to my tear-stained breast and go back to my room and cry……
But first I will express my feelings with this free punctuation verse:
#%@#^26
$#^%*^(()*&)
$#^%$&
^%#^#%
#%&#&%$& 34&# #&^*
So THERE! All you mean girlz can just Bite me!
Vetgirl, you made ginmar defend me and you made me be on the same side of something as ginmar. Ginmar and I don’t even agree about GRAVITY! So you are BAD and WRONG.
This comment was written by Robert.Report this comment to the moderators
July 28th, 2005 at 2:37 pm
Oh, God she’s going to really unleash the dogs of multiple punctuation on you now, Robert. After all, she restrained herself to three question marks and exclaimation points before, God only knows what you’ve done!
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
July 28th, 2005 at 6:15 pm
Is it just me or does vetgirl need that new software that recognises when your cat is walking on the keyboard and prevents any further kitty typing?
This comment was written by BritGirlSF.Plue she made Gin and Robert agree, which is clearly a sign of the coming apocalypse. Is vetgirl the AntiChrist?
Report this comment to the moderators
July 28th, 2005 at 6:36 pm
I’m reasonably sure that it’s possible for musicians and Asian women to work together without anyone being demeaned. I know only a little about Japanese music, but two amazing female vocalists are Makiko Sakurai and Ohta Hiromi. I discovered both of them through the works of the Japanese composer/maniac/Dead-lovin’ weirdo Ayou. His website is here.
http://park7.wakwak.com/~ayuo/
Go through google to get the translated version.
Soundclips on Amazon, etc etc. Really great stuff.
Stefani, on the other hand, has always made me break out in hives. No wonder Gwen doesn’t want to hang out with Japanese women who can sing. They’d kick her bubble-gum ass down the block. :p
This comment was written by alsis39.Report this comment to the moderators
July 28th, 2005 at 6:40 pm
Alsis, this has always been my gripe about Stefani and her human toys. If she wants to pay tribute to Harajuku fashin, which is VERY music influenced, why not do some kind of collaboration with one of the many J-Pop stars who influenced the fashion in the first place?
This comment was written by BritGirlSF.Report this comment to the moderators
July 28th, 2005 at 6:44 pm
Yeah, BritGirl. She’s still run the risk of the Paul Simon Syndrome referred to earlier, but at least then she could say that she wanted wider exposure for other artists. She wouldn’t just look as if she was exploiting them as living statues. Yeesh.
(I have a weakness for Orange Pekoe, too. Their vocalist is great fun to listen to. And I’m somewhat familiar with Monday Michiru, if only because she’s the daughter of one of my all-time favorite jazz artists, the incredible Toshiko Akiyoshi.)
This comment was written by alsis39.Report this comment to the moderators
July 28th, 2005 at 6:57 pm
The sad thing is, given the level to which Stefani has dumbed herself down if she was to pick a J-Pop star to collaborate with the ones on her level would all be kids. I think of her as at about the same level as Puffy AmiYumi, which given that they’re teenagers is not a good reflection on Stefani.
This comment was written by BritGirlSF.Report this comment to the moderators
July 29th, 2005 at 12:03 am
Hey Robert I will try not to use any punctuation marks so as not to confuse the easily confused such as yourself, ooops sorry damn comma it’s Stefani not Stephani, oops soory again another comma why did the 3 freaks who know no grammar have to find me. sure is easy to piss you 3 off! Especially you Robert, I actually made you think, a pathetic effort you gave it but still, kudo’s!
This comment was written by vetgirl.Report this comment to the moderators
July 29th, 2005 at 3:50 am
This must be my favorite thread so far. I mean… Ginmar and Robert are suddenly, temporarily at least, pals, and then there is vetgirl still lecturing on grammar while using grammar that isn’t that convincing. Is she doing a subtle comedy here, I wonder?
Let’s not forget the secularists with the Apocalypse remarks, btw. Might also be a sign of something like the “Invasion of Body Snatchers” to get Robert and Ginmar on the same side.
This comment was written by Tuomas.Report this comment to the moderators
July 29th, 2005 at 4:47 am
You know, dude, if I start using the word ‘manhood’ in my writing, then you know, the martians have landed, the pods have taken me, and the Apocalypse is nigh.
I see vetgirl is still very ably indicating that it wasn’t ‘acting’ stupid that was the problem—it’s that it’s not an act that’s the issue. Jesus. Nothing worse than a fangirl whose idol has been criticized for something truly uncomfortable.
I couldn’t give a shit how stephani’s name is spelled because I have no desire to look it up for anything at all; I sure won’t be buying her music.
You know, when the apocalypse comes it’s going to be very ironic. I bet it’ll be because all the fangirls suddenly wised up about something, en masse, but then reality would implode and we’d only get to enjoy intelligenct conversation for about three seconds or something.
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
July 29th, 2005 at 7:48 am
vetgirl:
Entertaining as it is to watch you digging an ever-deeper hole for yourself, I feel compelled to point out that the problem so many posters have with your punctuation is not the fact that you use it but the fact that you misuse it. When posing a question, it is not necessary to use multiple question marks: one per question will suffice. The exclamation mark is similar, but since the definition of an exclamation is more fluid than the definition of a question mark, it should be used sparingly. Terry Pratchett characterised multiple exclamation marks as a sign of a sick mind, something that is always worth bearing in mind in situations like this.
This comment was written by Nick Kiddle.Report this comment to the moderators
July 29th, 2005 at 1:22 pm
The fact that certain people are actually counting exclamation points and question marks is indeed disturbing, especially when they are used solely to get a point across to obviously thick minds. Now we are talking about an apocalypse? Where the hell did that come from? Does any of this have anything to do with what everyone is posting about? If you had actually read my original post you would have seen that I’m not a Stefani “fangirl”. Now people are quoting others about multiple exclamation marks and the meaning of them. Could anyone please answer what that has to do with Stefani exploiting these women and if they are actually being exploited or they are just a publicity stunt to get people talking, bitching, and moaning to make her album sell more? And just what are all of you punctuation police doing about it. Nothing, but bitching and moaning! Stick to the point or is the level of intelligence so low that the mind can only concentrate on one thing? I have seen mostly intelligent posts on here from people sticking to the subject. As usual a few idiots must get their babbling in, and taking shots at people. Grow up!
This comment was written by vetgirl.Report this comment to the moderators
July 29th, 2005 at 1:33 pm
As usual a few idiots must get their babbling in, and taking shots at people. Grow up!
Leaves me speechless. Here, hold on a second….
(Wrestles 3×6 mirror out of the closet. Holds it up for vetgirl to look into.)
Comment #95 was one of the funniest things I’ve seen in quite a while.
This comment was written by Jake Squid.Report this comment to the moderators
July 29th, 2005 at 2:05 pm
Hey Jake, who am I taking shots at? In detail? Name someone I’ve taken a shot at for no reason that hasn’t taken shots at me and used their circle of friends to do the same. Why is there no previous post from any of these people on this subject? Have they said anything on the subject? Or have they just busied themselves arguing for no good reason? Please answer
This comment was written by vetgirl.Report this comment to the moderators
July 29th, 2005 at 6:40 pm
Hey, vetgirl? I posted upthread about the substantive issues. The reason people are mocking you is that you made yourself look like an idiot. I now see that you actually do understand the basic rules of English grammar and punctuation. If you had used them in the first place people wouldn’t be mocking you. Just saying.
This comment was written by BritGirlSF.Report this comment to the moderators
July 30th, 2005 at 8:17 am
The fact that certain people are actually counting exclamation points and question marks is indeed disturbing,
Because they’re counting mine! Correct?????
especially when they are used solely to get a point across to obviously thick minds.
Hah! My Churchillian insults will stun them into silence!
Now we are talking about an apocalypse? Where the hell did that come from?
Translation: Did not lurk at all, but charged in, exclamation points blazing.
Does any of this have anything to do with what everyone is posting about?
It had more to do with your comments, which missed the point by a mile in order to attack people for not taking the same tolerant viewpoint of Stephani’s cynical stunts.
If you had actually read my original post you would have seen that I’m not a Stefani “fangirl”Ā.
Walks like a duck, talks like a duck….Oh, shit, next she’ll complain about…”Why are we talking about ornithology now, huh? What does that have to do with anything? Stay on topic, people!”
Now people are quoting others about multiple exclamation marks and the meaning of them.
No, we’re talking about your misuse of them. Not just any old grammatical errors, but yours.
Could anyone please answer what that has to do with Stefani exploiting these women and if they are actually being exploited or they are just a publicity stunt to get people talking, bitching, and moaning to make her album sell more?
Still trying to slither away from your grammatical and logical lapses, eh? Cute. And since when are ‘exploitation ‘and ‘publicity stunt’ mutually exclusive?
And just what are all of you punctuation police doing about it.
That’s at least the third time in one comment you’ve gotten defensive about it. Plus, it’s cute that you seem to be heading toward ‘Put up or shut up land.’
Nothing, but bitching and moaning! Stick to the point or is the level of intelligence so low that the mind can only concentrate on one thing?
Not your site, sweetums. You don’t get to issue orders here, and don’t bitch about being treated harshly when that’s at least the second insult you’ve used in just one comment.
I have seen mostly intelligent posts on here from people sticking to the subject.
Because of course, your opinion matters.
As usual a few idiots must get their babbling in, and taking shots at people. Grow up!
Love the casual assumption that she’s not among the first group, and the order to do what she herself has yet to accomplish.
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
July 30th, 2005 at 9:06 am
Better she should go with eX-girl. Nothing like a few bone-crushing sci-fi-metal chords and weird tales of inflatable bug-eyed alien cartoon beasts landing on Earth to snap the fans out of their reverie. Sort of like Ziggy Stardust, but louder and weirder. :D
This comment was written by alsis39.Report this comment to the moderators
July 30th, 2005 at 9:56 am
But, Alsis, loud and weird might contrast with Bratz-style cutseyness!
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
July 31st, 2005 at 10:19 pm
Ginmar, where is your supposed intelligent post that is on this whole subject? I have seen many people misspell on here, but I don’t find it necessary to call them out. And yes, when you go after me for no reason, I fight back. Am I supposed to let you question my intelligence? And not fight back? This whole thing is ridiculous to sit and argue over these things that are being brought up. And yes, my original post did give my opinion. It is still a free country, correct? I did not attack anyone until I was attacked first, yes I fight back! Did I originally post on here to argue? No, I did not. Almost everything on here about me, was for what good reason? When I’m dogged for no good reason, I fight back. As most people would. The only insults I put out there was fighting back for myself. Just what is the point on here Ginmar, seeings how you’ve never made a post about it. And take a count of your insults lodged at me. My original post had no insults. Not till they were lodged at me! Please tell me where to find your post on the subject! And Ginmar, one last comment, because I’m sure you’ll post something back with an insult yet once again, get over it, get laid or something! My god man, do you have no life? There, you can unleash all your buddies on me again. And Britgirl, I had meant to say you were the only one that insulted me that had made posts on here before. I never took a holier than thou attitude, just gave my opinion. Never attacked anyone, I don’t feel the need to do so. Just gave my opinion on the subject. And then had to defend myself about multiple question marks, for christs sake! If you feel the need to insult, rather than to accept the fact that other people are allowed to have their own views. Then feel free! If you want to have a war of intelligence then fine, I’ll pull out my 8 years of college, my degree of Veteranarian Medicine. Not to brag about it, just realize you don’t want a war of words, not that I feel you worthy of this Ginmar. Just grow up! And please, if my original post missed the subject by a mile as stated, then be brave show me your original post on the subject! Yes Ginmar, a dare! Could we all get back on the subject?
This comment was written by vetgirl.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 4:30 am
And yes, when you go after me for no reason, I fight back. Am I supposed to let you question my intelligence?
You have intelligence? Really? Sorry, I failed to see it in all the trolling.
And not fight back? This whole thing is ridiculous to sit and argue over these things that are being brought up.
Translation: Losing.
And yes, my original post did give my opinion. It is still a free country, correct? I did not attack anyone until I was attacked first, yes I fight back! Did I originally post on here to argue?
Um, sweetie? Your original post was idiotic and your followups have been worse. Sure, you can express an opinion. However, when you come stomping onto a blog you’ve ever commented on before, without lurking, and whine and snivel that your widdle pwecious is being maligned, correct???? you have no right to expect people to think you’re more intelligent than you act.
Oh, wait, you have a degree? What do you want? A cookie? Degrees don’t make you intelligent, as your behavior here has aptly demonstrated.
Get laid, get a life?
Oops, I think we have a winner.
Hey, Amp, can you ban this troll?
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 6:11 am
I’m sorry to start Monday on such a sour note, ginmar. However, if you are implying that Ziggy Stardust is not cute, I’m going to have to ask you to step outside.
Nerf balls at twenty paces. 10 O’clock sharp. Be there.
This comment was written by alsis39.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 6:25 am
Hey, bring it on!
My preferred weapon of choice is my handy dandy squirt gun, though. Food coloring at dawn!
Besides, there’s androgynous, edgey cute and then, like I said, there’s Bratz cute.
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 6:35 am
Whew. That’s better.
http://www.exgirl-kero.com/
When I saw them two years ago, I lost my hearing for about three hours after the show ended.
This comment was written by alsis39.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 8:31 am
Hey Ginmar, you touched on every question or comment I’ve ever made, none touting Stefani as an idol, and as I’ve stated I don’t even listen to her, but you never answered my question. Where’s your original post on the subject? As you told me
Sure, you can express an opinion. However, when you come stomping onto a blog you’ve ever commented on before, without lurking, and whine and snivel that your widdle pwecious is being maligned, correct???? you have no right to expect people to think you’re more intelligent than you act.
But you can come stomping in and comment about other peoples comments? Hmm, when did this turn into Ginmar’s universe? Nice how you try to sidestep the question of your I’m guessing invisible original post on the subject. Don’t be afraid Ginmar, just whip it out, even if it was a small post that maybe I missed, size doesn’t matter as I’m sure you’ve heard quite a bit. Come on ginmar, prove me wrong, where is your original post dated before mine? That’s all I’m asking of you.
This comment was written by vetgirl.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 9:19 am
Well, when it’s not Q Grrl’s universe, the default does go to Ginmar. I thought everybody knew this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But more rightly that’ s just because I outshot her squirt gun with my slingshot (she’s got me beat handily in the intelligence and punctuation categories).
This comment was written by Q Grrl.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 9:45 am
Hey, I have a slingshot, too, baby. Wanna duel?
Oh, christ is it still whining?
God, good to know that college money didn’t go to waste.
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 10:03 am
Dueling feminist slingshots. I like.
This comment was written by Q Grrl.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 10:48 am
Mine’s really cool. It’s handmade and was a present of a friend.
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 10:50 am
I find that I’m always more impressed when a person can actually spell the name of their degree correctly.
veterinarian
Also, it’s usually a degree in Veterinary Medicine. Although, maybe I’m wrong and perhaps you are tellling us that you are qualified to give that form of health care specific to veterinarians?
This comment was written by Jake Squid.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 12:02 pm
I just assumed she worked at her local VA.
Gin: I don’t, much to my chagrin, actually own a slingshot. Sigh. Much like my attitude towards handguns: I do not own what I would readily use on idiots.
This comment was written by Q Grrl.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 12:18 pm
Well, if she does, that explains why I walked into the VA recently for a shoulder injury and got offered a Pap smear instead.
Hey, Q, I can hook you up.
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 12:25 pm
Really?!
I can see the headlines now: Woman in Durham single-handedly dismantles crack houses with slingshot. Details at 11:00.
This comment was written by Q Grrl.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 5:47 pm
No, I am not making that up.
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 6:02 pm
I think that ginmar and Q need to start their own post-Glam/post-punk/post-everything band.
This comment was written by alsis39.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 6:21 pm
Does that mean we’re so post-everything we’re the newest thing on the block?
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 7:43 pm
Hey, I want in on the post-glam/post-punk band, although I would argue that it’s not possible to be post-punk since punk is not dead, merely critically injured by the Blink182s and the Jimmy Eat World’s and other faux-punk obscenities.
This comment was written by BritGirlSF.Also, if we’re going to duel I suggest paintguns. What’s the point of fighting if we can’t make a mess?
Word of warning to vetgirl. I am a serious Japanese pop-culture junkie, and particularly well versed in the scene Stefani is ripping off. You don’t want to start arguing this with me.
Now that I think about it Orange Range might be better musical partners for Stefani. Alsis, what do you think?
Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 8:10 pm
Got a link, BritGirl ? Or do I not want one ?
Can we get special paintguns that only shoot enviro-friendly veggie paints ? I have my hippie rep to protect, doncha’ know…
This comment was written by alsis39.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 8:17 pm
…punk is not dead, merely critically injured by the Blink182s and the Jimmy Eat World’s…
How dare you! How dare you call Jimmy Eat World or Blink182 punk! Hell, I’d deal with you calling Green Day “elevator musak punk,” but, but, but….. Jimmy Eat World? Damn, Stefani’s crappy, bland solo albumen is more punk than Jimmy Eat World could ever be. And the crappy and bland solo albumen isn’t close to punk.
Well, I never.
This comment was written by Jake Squid.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 8:29 pm
Who ARE these people ? You kids and your weird music, I swear…
http://www.aikoshimada.com/
This comment was written by alsis39.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 9:01 pm
Jake, of course Jimmy Eat World isn’t punk, thus the use of the term “faux-punk”. It’s a hideous travesty of everything punk was about which is being marketed as “punk”. I had thought that would be obvious to anyone smart enough to post on Alas. Your slowness on the uptake distresses me. Did you forget how to read?
This comment was written by BritGirlSF.Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 9:05 pm
Alsis, you don’t want to know, trust me. If you get the AZN channel you can see them in all their dubious glory on the J-Pop chart show. I guarantee that it will be a painful experience, especially when they try to speak in faux-gansta rap voices.
This comment was written by BritGirlSF.PS For Jake, notice the word “faux” above and spare me the lecture about rap.
Report this comment to the moderators
August 1st, 2005 at 9:15 pm
It’s obvious that I’ve forgotten how to read. But sometimes that allows me my righteous indignation. It’s also obvious that I’ve forgotten how to get the proper sarcastic tone into my writing. Such is the world.
This comment was written by Jake Squid.Report this comment to the moderators
August 2nd, 2005 at 2:52 am
Obviously, Jake, you need to use more punctuation in your writing!!!!!!!
See? Ever so much better.
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
August 2nd, 2005 at 6:13 am
No cable for me, BritGirl. I’d just spend all my time watching the cooking channel and the cuddly puppies ‘n kitties channel. And I already waste enough time as it is. :/
BTW, I know nothing about the artists at Happiness Records, but when you scroll along the options menu, the little bluebird in the upper left hand corner bobs its head and such. How can that be wrong ??????!!!!!!
http://www.happiness-records.com/frame_artist.html
This comment was written by alsis39.Report this comment to the moderators
August 2nd, 2005 at 6:29 am
“Can we get special paintguns that only shoot enviro-friendly veggie paints ? ”
Um, but those are called slingshots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One slingshot + slightly rotting apples = One painfully good time.
This comment was written by Q Grrl.Report this comment to the moderators
August 24th, 2005 at 11:02 am
why make a big deal out of all of this ??? it’s pointless !!! its not as if she’ll see this and go oh dear ill have to send them away . i dont think the harajuki girls will care as they are probs gettin paid loads anyways n if they wanted 2 leave THEY WOULD , so bck off u bunch of ive got nothin betta 2 do than write paragraph upon paragraph of bull****
This comment was written by estonia chrome.Report this comment to the moderators
August 24th, 2005 at 12:18 pm
So, have we officially established now that you could gather two dozen Gwen Stefani-worshippers in one room and still not be able to rustle up more than half a dozen brain cells, all told ?
This comment was written by alsis39.Report this comment to the moderators
August 24th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
I think half a dozen is being pretty damn generous, Alsis.
This comment was written by Crys T.Report this comment to the moderators
August 24th, 2005 at 8:19 pm
But look at the bright side: they’ll use up all the excessive punctuation and cliches that would otherwise be deployed elsewhere in the world.
Good lord. I haven’t seen that kind of grammatical idiocy since Season Six Buffy and Spike and so forth. Fangirls attack!
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
September 11th, 2005 at 7:01 pm
As a frequent writer of fashion and music trends,to delve into the whole sex, subservience and society is giving Gwen much to much credit than she deserves. The youths of harajuku are the pinnacle of the fashion food chain with all trends expanding from there. Instead of wearing the golden eggs she chose instead to leash the goose and drag it around with her in the hopes of gaining hipster cred by association. For example, why wear (or even try to understand) Lagerfeld when you can just pay him to follow you around all day. For the .001% of us who are aware of this stunt, its pretty insipid, for the 99.9% of the mtv watching american public she’s ‘cutting-edge’, a ‘fashion icon’ ‘has her finger on the ‘pulse of whats hot’. Buying the Cliff Notes is not the same as reading the book.
This comment was written by Leopold Stotch.As far as the girls of Harajuku and their sexual mores/outlooks go, you’d probably have to ask each one indvidually. Their just a group of fashionable kids, not a race of like minded robots. All with their own individual opinions of sex and society, not any different than American kids. To quickly write this ‘movement’ off as a return to the Geisha or subserviance belies any understanding of the subculture itself.
Just my 2 yen.
Report this comment to the moderators
September 20th, 2005 at 8:37 pm
Thank you for basically ignoring anything anyone intelligent said on this post.
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
October 10th, 2005 at 8:48 am
After watching the video, it seems to me that she’s also trying to ride the lesbian chic pop vibe. … unless the Harajuku girls are running their hands over her crotch for other reasons?
This comment was written by bernd.Report this comment to the moderators
October 13th, 2005 at 5:11 pm
I meant I get offended when rappers use girls as human accesories because they make them look like total skanks. Gwen just makes look like dolls. I watch the video several times and I don not see girls hands on her crotch. After the “Cool” video she stopped with the Harajuku obsession. And yes I am aware what I said was MONTHS ago, and please don’t take what I said too personally. I like the rappers, just not their versions of “Harajuku girls”.
This comment was written by Cammy.Report this comment to the moderators
November 3rd, 2005 at 1:20 pm
WHATEVER! Gwen loves her harajuku girls and just cause there not WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO BE don’t start getting mean bout Gwen !
I am the allmighty GOD and you will do what i say!
This comment was written by God.Report this comment to the moderators
November 4th, 2005 at 5:16 pm
WHATEVER!
Terrific detailed rebuttal. Bravo.
Gwen loves her harajuku girls and just cause there
Their, you twit. not WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO BE don’t start getting mean bout Gwen !
Caps do not serve as a substitute for logic. Also, the word is ‘about’. Also, ‘what you want them to be’ is not a concept referring to anything stated in the thread.
I am the allmighty GOD and you will do what i say!
I am almighty bored with twits who cannot spell or use correct grammar. Please familiarize yourself with your shift key and spell/grammar check function.
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
November 4th, 2005 at 10:34 pm
OMG!!! I think it is very unique of Gwen and these girls (love,angel,music,baby) are getting discovered and they probably love it. think Gwen is doing nothing wrong.
This comment was written by MichMosh.Report this comment to the moderators
November 5th, 2005 at 7:44 pm
Well It’s not a big deal, I don’t really mind but havn’t big rap stars been using girls as accessories in their video clips for ages????? No one complains about that! Even though the women in those video clips are wearing much less and are doing sexy moves!!! The worlds gone nuts!!!
This comment was written by Hannah.Report this comment to the moderators
November 6th, 2005 at 3:44 pm
Dear Hannah;
Get a clue. People have in fact been complaining about rap videos for ages. However, if you’re okay with it, I guess we can all relax because the world waits for your opinions.
Christ, are the Stefani fans idiots? “I dun care and I think it’s okay!!1″
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
November 7th, 2005 at 5:51 am
The rap video thing could be not so much “there’s no problem with it because rappers do it too” as “this is just more of the same old thing and I’m suffering from outrage overload already”. Still not great, but not quite as clueless.
This comment was written by Nick Kiddle.Report this comment to the moderators
November 8th, 2005 at 12:57 am
“Christ, are the Stefani fans idiots? “I dun care and I think it’s okay!!1″Ā³ ”
This comment was written by BritGirlSF.It pretty much seems that way, doesn’t it?
Report this comment to the moderators
November 8th, 2005 at 7:01 am
I am almighty bored with twits who cannot spell or use correct grammar. Please familiarize yourself with your shift key and spell/grammar check function.
This comment was written by jason.Report this comment to the moderators
November 30th, 2005 at 9:17 pm
The problem that I have with the song “harajuku girls” is that its so vague. I lived in Japan for just a couple of months (I’m not claiming to an expert), and after spending just a little time in Harajuku, one notices that there are several different styles (which are frequently blended together). There are several hip-hop fashion stores, punk stores, goth stores, gothic lolita stores, and even some nearby department stores. The term “Harajuku girls” implies that there is some sort of “Harajuku fashion,” which is far from true. Harajuku represents several varieties of fashion.
After returning to America, I have been asked several times, “what is a Harajuku girl?” Its really annoying what this song has done, because a lot of Gwen’s fans don’t even know what Harajuku is (I wonder if they even know that it is a place).
This comment was written by DAMIEN.Report this comment to the moderators
January 6th, 2006 at 1:05 pm
I didn’t know so many people would be offended by Gwen Stefani, unfortunately, including her own fans. I personally believe it’s her own way of expressing her immense interest in the culture (people are allowed to do that, and just because she’s famous and exceedingly rich doesn’t mean she’s doing it for more fans; people can be human every now and then). Sort of like the saying ‘Imitation is another form of flattery’. If the people here are allowed to bash her about her Harajuku girls and whatnot, the girls of Harajuku can easily say the same about the people in this blog. Not too many people in this blog are technically from Harajuku (or are even japanese to begin with) but I’m sure plenty of japs think the ‘otakus’ of America (and around the world) look like jap wannabees. I used to have a biased opinion on the whole US otaku scene because I found it offensive to myself and the japanese culture (I used to believe the majority of the otaku population was retarded, making up asinine japanese names, and trying to speak to me in what I considered ‘my’ language at the few conventions I’ve attended) but I learned to accept and realize it’s basically everyone’s form of appreciation of our culture. And the same goes for Gwen Stefani for me. I believe she appreciates the culture as much as the majority of you. It’s immature to say that she knows nothing about Harajuku considering the fact that none of you were ‘Harajuku professionals’ before you posted in this blog. Just because you’re a crazy Harajuku fan doesn’t mean you’re superior to the other fans, including Gwen Stefani. I honestly don’t believe there’s a reason why so many of you should be (or have a right to be) offended to begin with considering the fact that 95% of the people who posted aren’t japanese or have set foot in Japan to begin with. This is just a personal (and most likely biased) opinion, but an opinion nonetheless.
For those of you who don’t have the attention span of a gold fish, thanks for reading this opinion on the subject (which most of you immaturely forgot and started ranting on about punctuation and other digressive material).
~Wakako~
This comment was written by Wakako.Report this comment to the moderators
January 15th, 2006 at 7:57 pm
Move over Britney and Bit-Bit. It seems the latest accessory for a pop princess is four life-sized, dressable, nameable humans. Don’t get me wrong, i love Stefani’s music, I just think it’s sad that her entourage must be adolescants from a non-english speaking sub-culture that has nothing to do with being a ‘Rich Girl.’ She has sucussfully, albeit unintentionally, deconstructed the femeninity of half the population of a SHOPPING district. I myself am guilty of assuming that all Harajuku girls are the same as the one’s in Stefani’s possession, simply because that was the first i had heard of them. of course, it works both ways. Sadly it is the western arrogancy that makes us think we ‘own’ easterners. i have heard people make coments about how much easterners look up to us, and not just because of the height difference. But ask yourself this: will a high profile Japanese pop star pay four Americans to follow him or her around? NOT LIKELY!!!!!!!!!!!
This comment was written by Ninja Kitty.Report this comment to the moderators
January 15th, 2006 at 9:29 pm
Gwen stefani is not exploiting the harajuku girls. You know, they do have a mind of their own. Did y’all ever stop to think that maybe they wanted to be her backround dancers? They didn’t have to. Also, gwen stefani is expressing herself through her lyrics and her asian influened music. If y’all would take the time to listen to her songs you would know that she’s talking about her life and not just the harajuku girls and she’s not stuck up. And yes i am gwen stefani fan. Fuck all the haters.
This comment was written by Tia kawaii.Report this comment to the moderators
January 18th, 2006 at 4:56 pm
get a life u dont know gwen and uve nevr met her like me. u dont understand. gwen rocks NxD rocks harajuku girls rock.
fuck u u hater
This comment was written by sam.Report this comment to the moderators
January 18th, 2006 at 5:00 pm
oh and by the way my best friend is half japanese, her mom is from japan, and ive been to japan so i think i know what im talking about when i say u need a life and Gwen is just showing that she loves japanese fashion and culture as do i
This comment was written by sam.Report this comment to the moderators
January 18th, 2006 at 5:36 pm
Is there a way to lock this thread?
This comment was written by Nick Kiddle.Report this comment to the moderators
January 18th, 2006 at 5:45 pm
Not until at least one person has gone over to Happiness Records and tried out that dancing bird thing I mentioned earlier. [taps foot.]
This comment was written by alsis39.Report this comment to the moderators
January 18th, 2006 at 6:11 pm
I’ve tried it. It’s cute. Now can we…
Hey, wait a minute! You’re not Amp - how can you dictate the terms like that?
This comment was written by Nick Kiddle.Report this comment to the moderators
January 18th, 2006 at 6:15 pm
I’m queen of fucking everything today. My horoscope said so. :p
This comment was written by alsis39.Report this comment to the moderators
January 18th, 2006 at 7:06 pm
Do we have to lock this thread? I think this thread - along with the Harry Potter thread, and the wedding gowns for sale thread - are hilarious. They’re like transplanted violets from a far-away continent, mysteriously flourishing in “Alas” soil.
This comment was written by Ampersand.Report this comment to the moderators
January 18th, 2006 at 7:13 pm
Take if from an amateur gardener, Amp. You only want to grow American violets (Viola Sorroria), unless you love spraying fungicide everywhere. The Euro varieties get this nasty gall on them like you wouldn’t believe…
This comment was written by alsis39.Report this comment to the moderators
January 19th, 2006 at 2:58 am
I love these threads. The wedding dress and Harry Potter threads both rock, but this one is by far my favorite of the lot - mainly because I have no fucking clue who Gwen Stefani even *is,* and therefore find the “fuck u u dont no gwen like i no gwen omg die u h8terz!” comments weirdly hilarious.
This comment was written by Elkins.Report this comment to the moderators
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:53 am
wow whata fuzz, about………….. NOTHINg, is funny 2 see what people got to say, about someone they dont know, and have theire opinion already made up, while they do not even KNOw the person, situation.. etc.
i have been to harajuku last oktober, and its fascinatiing to see the subculture.
what Gwen is doing, is her own buisness, if i dont like it, i dont have to listen to her music or watch her video’s.
life is way too short to get all fuzzed up about.
so to see all thos detailed explenation about why or how, or what, makes me laugh hahaha. some people only can be negative about others9strangers they dont even know)
too those people i say .. GET A LIFE
at least i am happy that of all my friends NO one is complaning about such trivial thing as what GWEN is doin, such kinda people dont get into my friends list, waste of time.
greets and respect from amsterdam
This comment was written by edgar.Report this comment to the moderators
January 22nd, 2006 at 11:54 am
Wuld ever1 hoo is verE sadd the cannot B freindz with Edgur please join me iN crying in the CORNER in 1 our ?!!??????!?!!!???
Coffee and donuts will B served. Anything 2 ease my soul.
This comment was written by alsis39.Report this comment to the moderators
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:07 pm
alisis, I might need Bailey’s with my donughts. “Leetspeak” (if that’s what it’s called) has always given me a headache. I think it has something to do with it going against everything I learned about English grammar and spelling in twenty years of school. ;) I’ll join you in the corner now.
This comment was written by Mendy.Report this comment to the moderators
January 22nd, 2006 at 5:21 pm
Did you say coffee?
::sobs obligingly::
This comment was written by Elkins.Report this comment to the moderators
April 11th, 2006 at 6:26 pm
I slightly agree with Edgar, there. It must be nice in Harajuku. I barely started reading these blogs and got interested in the small debate.
Harajuku girls….ah. Yes. Well. Their style is more or less their own personality. It is not a fashion STATEMENT nor trying to attract men. Stop me if I’m wrong but I’ve been researching for a little while about street fashion. It’s very interesting and quite frankly, I adore it. But back to the subject, Harajuku fashion, or, Street Fashion is a fashion in which the people, mainly girls, feel most comfortable. They find their fashion to be self satisfactory. Perhaps, they enjoy that people NOTICE them more just to be noticed and to feel a sense of worth to look at or perhaps, most likely, girls who wear Lolita clothing, which is in most cases, brings back a sort of past…a fantacism for them. Putting them in a world of indifference, they feel most comfortable.
If anything, I support the fashion and I do very much hope that I can visit some time in my life.
Back on track. Gwen Stefani lives in the US. Just like everyone else, she has the right to express herself. The japanese ladies in the background who are, quote-unquote, “mute”. They are paid ladies. Paid as in paid a lot to be in a VIDEO. Now, if they weren’t paid to be “mute”, you people would have valid reasons to complain about racism, womanizing, whatever.
Now. There is an old saying…. “If you point your finger at someone, you point three right back at you.” Sound familiar? It should.
I just have a question for you. Why complain about four-five asian women in a video who had been PAID, mind you, to be there in the first place. Why complain and accuse racism? Americans are made fun of in Europe and every where else just the same. It’s all about Balance.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s good for you to protect races and keep the peace but don’t forget. You’re not so innocent either, right?
This comment was written by Natalie.Report this comment to the moderators
April 12th, 2006 at 2:05 am
Oh my god. It still lives.
This comment was written by Crys T.Report this comment to the moderators
April 12th, 2006 at 5:28 am
You mean, the stupidity? Christ. I’m especially fond of the rhetorical brilliance of, “fuck u u hater.’ Yep, that’ll show us.
I love it how the point eludes each and every one of them. If it were an arrow, they’d be bleeding.
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
April 12th, 2006 at 6:21 am
Oh, I gave up actually trying to dialogue with them months ago: their brains must run on a closed network or something where no new information can be allowed in. Sort of like those Star Trek NG-&-after episodes where the crew would encounter an individual that had been assimilated by the Borg and would try to engage it in conversation & attempt to make it understand reason.
This comment was written by Crys T.Report this comment to the moderators
April 12th, 2006 at 6:48 am
Ha !! It was fated that the Gwen Legion would return. Now I have an excuse to get all hyper because Ayuo has a brand-new CD ! Aparently, part of it adapts an 11th-Century Noh play that in turn was adapted from a chapter in Murasaki’s Tale of Genji.
Like wheels of a cart
Forever turning
Are birth and death in all living things;
Six Worlds and Four Births
You must journey;
Strive as you will, there is no escape.
What folly to be blind
To the fraility of life.
Like a banana stalk without a core.
Like a bubble on the water!
Flowers of yestrerday
Are but a dream today.
How sad my fate! — Zeami. Translation by Gen’ichi Tsuge.
Ayuo did such an amazing job with Izutsu in merging operatic/theatrical elements with world music, and this sounds like it will be just as ambitious. (Red Moon was also good, but had more of a pop-world music-hippie vibe to it.)
This baby’s gonna’ be mine soon. Screw buying groceries. Hell with my utility bills ! :p
This comment was written by alsis39.75.Report this comment to the moderators
April 12th, 2006 at 7:26 am
What I want to know is how they even find the thread.
Is there some cyber trail out there, like day old snail slime on a hot brick wall, that leads them inevitably here?
Pass me the salt someone.
This comment was written by Q Grrl.Report this comment to the moderators
April 12th, 2006 at 8:33 am
Y’all check out this. It’s a post on a weblog about Lisp, the programming language, and various other technical things. The comments on that post got taken over by people looking for support about speech impediments. Also check out this post, which takes the comicality to even greater heights. (The owner even put an ad on the page to pay for all the hits it was getting.) This thread is pathetic in comparison.
This comment was written by pdf23ds.Report this comment to the moderators
April 12th, 2006 at 8:36 am
The discussion in the second post even bleeds over into the post next to it, which is on a completely different topic.
This comment was written by pdf23ds.Report this comment to the moderators
April 12th, 2006 at 3:46 pm
Alsis, your tastes intimidate me: I was just listening to some Ramones and thinking I was way cool.
It can’t be a full moon yet, but not only has this thread been resurrected, but I see the Wedding Dress one has as well. What’s brought out the loonies?
This comment was written by Crys T.Report this comment to the moderators
April 12th, 2006 at 3:51 pm
Alsis….thanks for your post….you know what kind of traditional Japanese theatre I like.
NELSON looks around. He’s the only one in an audience of folding chairs).Anybody field this one… Anyone at all…
(NELSON tentatively raises his hand) Ah yes, you sir; and you enjoyKabuki theater?
NELSON: Uh, actually I prefer Noh theater.CROW: Well, then, why did you raise your hand?
NELSON: Because I like Noh theater. Noh plays are my favorite.
SERVO: So you don’t like any theater at all?
NELSON: No, let me explain. Noh theater is classic Japanese drama. Noh plays have been produced since the 13th century, and Noh actors are revered even today.
CROW: Why are you dissing Japanese theater? What’s your deal, man?
NELSON: No, wait a minute! Noh theater started in Japan…
SERVO: Oh, so now you tell us Japan doesn’t have any theater whatsoever?
NELSON: They have lots of theater, including Noh theater!
CROW: So they have lots of theater and they have no theater?
NELSON: Exactly!
SERVO: No theater?
CROW: What?
NELSON: Yes!
BOTS: WHAT?!
NELSON: Noh theater!!!! N…O….H!!!!
SERVO: N-O-H, huh? There you just go and show what an idiot you are!
CROW: I’ll handle this, Tom, calm down! Mike: I’m going to ask you a series of simple questions which even a cretin like you could answer yes or no.
Now, is there theater in Japan?
NELSON: Yes.
CROW: Good, and do you have a particular favorite type of Japanese theater?
NELSON: Yes.
CROW: Well, good, now we’re getting somewhere! Mike: will you tell me the name of your favorite form of Japanese theater?
NELSON: Noh!
CROW: Why not?
NELSON: Why not what?!
CROW: Why won’t you tell me your favorite Japanese theater?
NELSON
I just did.
CROW
Did what?!
NELSON (spits out each word): Told you my favorite form of Japanese theater!
CROW: You did?
NELSON: Yes!!!
CROW: Well, will you tell me again?
NELSON: Yes! NOH!
SERVO: Oh, come on!
CROW: Mike, I’m going to grab a step ladder so you can jump up my butt!
From an MST3K archive…
This comment was written by Aaron V..Report this comment to the moderators
April 13th, 2006 at 9:36 am
Hey, Crys, you shouldn’t be intimidated. I bet Ayuo loves the Ramones, and probably Gruff Rhys, too. From reading his home page, you can tell he’s very into that multikulti thing…
I blame fluoridated water. ;)
This comment was written by alsis39.75.Report this comment to the moderators
April 14th, 2006 at 6:53 am
Great, tooth decay or brain decay? Tough choice.
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
April 14th, 2006 at 7:43 am
Hm, I must then check this all out! I’m in a bit of a musical rut now–well, a rut in general. Maybe something different will cheer me up.
This comment was written by Crys T.Report this comment to the moderators
May 14th, 2006 at 6:33 pm
I’m SO unimpressed by Gwennie MISPRONOUNCING the Japanese word for “Cute” at the beginning of her video…
This comment was written by Koy.Seems if you loved a Culture of Cute you’d learn to SAY it.
NOT “KU*wa*ii”
“KA*wa*ii”
Difficult? No one stood up and TOLD the blonde?
OR (gasp), perhaps their were no REAL Japanese around…?
Report this comment to the moderators
May 16th, 2006 at 12:39 pm
That comment might go over better, Koy, if you could tell the difference between ‘their’ and ‘there’, not to mention the BLONDE bit.
This comment was written by ginmar.Report this comment to the moderators
May 16th, 2006 at 3:48 pm
Takes cricket bat and swings it at this thread, a la Shaun of the Dead.
This comment was written by Aaron V..Report this comment to the moderators
June 20th, 2006 at 12:57 am
swallowed a subversive youth culture in Japan and barfed up another image of submissive giggling Asian women. While aping a style thatās suppose to be about individuality and personal expression, Stefani ends up being the only one who stands out.http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/04/18/harajuku-fashion/ Ā Ā Ā Ā
This comment was written by style is always in.Report this comment to the moderators
September 11th, 2006 at 12:09 am
i think it’s admirable that they aren’t judged for how they dress…for this non-comformist style…they are trend-setters..that it’s a shure thing!!!
This comment was written by alexandra.Report this comment to the moderators
November 25th, 2006 at 12:49 pm
Sorry but i think most of u are really sad. So Gwen stefani has tried to go for a new look and styled herself around the popular new craze of harajuku. AND WHAT shes only trying to boost her career and shes making the fashion more well known, is there a real problem in that? some of you have said that its offensive that she has the harajuku girls with her in her videos as ‘’submissive” asian woman, and that if she was a man there would be ”uproar”. I’m sorry but in videos such as holla back girl they hardly act like her accessories or submissive and they’re wearing american street clothes which look just as slutty as the harajuku clothes they and gwen wear, she also acts like friends with them and they dont seem so submissive when they’re shouting along with gwen in the videos!!! and offcourse they’re gonna look submisssive compared to gwen because shes the singer and its her videos!!
also men in ‘american’ music videos are always seen with a haareem of girls with them whatever nationality, and look more like their slaves than the harajuku girls look like in gwens videos, and has there bee uproar about them no….
also the fact that proberbly very few of u are asian and are getting offended is quite weird as the comments ive read from asian ppl dont seem to be really bothered by it and neither do my asian friends so stop trying to be so rightous and overally involved. your just middle class liberals who decide to get bothered by something that has very little to do with you and have a mardy about it just sit back and relax and get botherd about stuff thats either effecting you, your family and friends or your culture directly!!!!
This comment was written by callum.Report this comment to the moderators
November 26th, 2006 at 2:10 am
This seems as good a time as many to state that I just finished a two-week temp gig in which Gwennie’s bubblegum was wafting gently through the air at least twice a day. I can honestly say that I’d rather be dipped in corn syrup and tied to a hill of fire ants than be subjected to it ever again. To claim, as Crys T and others did above, that her main audience is teenagers is a grave disservice to the average teenager, at least some of whom must possess IQ’s greater than that of a secondhand pleather ottoman.
Once again, however, I commend her ever-vigilant posse of not-quite-ready-for-literacy players who keep bumping this thread, thus giving me yet one more chance to treat Gwennie-poo with all the respect she deserves. Which would be none, basically. Her music is over-produced, inch-deep crap. Her voice sounds like cyclamates escaped from a toxic time capsule, and she operates from some black hole that is clearly stunting the intellectual growth of her legions of fans;None of whom appear to have actually read the thread before rushing breathlessly to the defense of their born-again barbie doll idol. “Ur” computers need to be taken away, pronto, Gwenfans, and given to somebody more deserving. A roomful of monkeys hard at work on their Shakespeare impersonations, for instance…
This comment was written by ms_xeno.Report this comment to the moderators
November 26th, 2006 at 2:28 am
actually i’ve got the IQ of 129, and im a Gwen fan, and onto my litaracy…i use text talk on blogs and forums because its faster and most people can still understand it so u can take your ”Ur” and, pardon my french, shove it where the sun don’t shine ^^
This comment was written by callum.Report this comment to the moderators
November 26th, 2006 at 2:37 am
Congratulations. Hurry on back to those oh-so-cozy spaces where “ur” magnificent genius and stunning taste in/for bubblegum can be properly appreciated, cal. Because I can assure you that it’s not appreciated here.
I’m not interested in how fast you can type. I’m interested in how well you can understand a thread that’s nearly two hundred posts long without just sounding like yet one more bleakly generic jackass who has utterly failed to comprehend the original point of the thread. So far, you’ve pretty much failed on both counts, and you communicate in a style better suited to MySpace and Blackberries than to interesting discourse.
Nonetheless, my hat is off to you. Gwennie’s offerings are clearly perfect for you, and vice versa. Nighty-night.
This comment was written by ms_xeno.Report this comment to the moderators
November 27th, 2006 at 3:58 pm
isn’t that you going of the subject of how gwen uses the idea of harajuku girls and that she has them in her videos? u seem to be talking about your opinion of her music and then go onto offending her fans…
isn’t this a thread of differnt opinions on the subject matter? so surely my contribution is just as valid and accepted by people as yours?
and please don’t call me ”cal” the ”lum” is at the end for a reason.
This comment was written by callum.Report this comment to the moderators
November 27th, 2006 at 5:13 pm
I think the gwen fans are probably not idiots (evidence to the contrary admitted), but 14-year-olds. After all, on the internet, nobody knows if “your” a dog or a vet, and who else would state their IQ in public as evidence of intelligence?
14-year-olds, naturally. Which makes me feel slightly bad about the abuse.
This is one of my favorite all-time threads though.
This comment was written by curiousgyrl.Report this comment to the moderators
November 27th, 2006 at 5:42 pm
BLAH HAHAHAH !!! Oh, the irony.
But– but–, if I shortn ur nam, i can tipe much fastr, Clum-chum.
(At any rate, people who responded to my posts back when I was still going by the “alsis” + the number of my age monicker usually dropped the number from the end of the name. I didn’t get too worked up about it. But, hey, I can appreciate the irony of you demanding respect while you fail to understand how Stefani’s use of Asian imagery is pretty damn disrespectful. She hires Asian women to dance attendence on her, renames them, and forbids them to speak. Nothing disrespectful about that, I suppose. Some of the links available through the link on post #15 go into great detail about this. I find it pretty distasteful, in addition to just being cheap gilding on a woman who strikes me as all style and no substance. She should just abandon the artiste pretenses and her pitiful, ugly line of overpriced fashions and head directly for her probable future career in Vegas lounges, where stuff like treating other races as exotic pets probably won’t raise an eyebrow.)
As fr th rson ur opinz r not much apresh, perhaps it has sumthng 2 do w ur ASSershuns nd insults such as:
Don’t pretend that you came here to make nicey-nice, since it’s clear that you didn’t. Also, I’ll be redundant and point out once more that your own views are at this point redundant. They were previously voiced –and roundly rebuked– by others on the thread.
This comment was written by ms_xeno.Report this comment to the moderators
November 28th, 2006 at 8:55 am
Gawd, you know I’d just about give my right kidney to be middle class. I mean, really.
$$$
This comment was written by Q Grrl.Report this comment to the moderators
November 28th, 2006 at 10:43 am
I can’t pay you cash. Would you settle for a nice dish of lemon-custard spongecake ? Oh, and how about a bowl of homemade lentil soup ? You get two homemade snacks for the price of one organ. Nobody can top that deal !!
Yeah, the hilarity of calllum’s whining that Gwenniekins’ critics can be dismissed for being middle-class liberals is duly noticed. Who are all the people buying up her music, shooting her luxurious Hollywood videos, hawking her shitty looking fashions, etc. Shit. At ninety bucks a sweatshirt, I’m pretty sure that her target audience isn’t made up of starving graduate students doing Chomsky dissertations, elderly conservative church ladies and sleep-deprived single moms working double shifts at Denny’s. Yeesh.
This comment was written by ms_xeno.Report this comment to the moderators
November 28th, 2006 at 10:48 am
S-p-o-n-g-e-c-a-k-e.
*drool*
This comment was written by Q Grrl.Report this comment to the moderators
December 7th, 2006 at 11:27 am
it sseems as soon as i rushed to her defence she had to let me down with her new single containing lyrics from sound of music. shes not really helped me help her help herself. but i still think her last albunm was good! ^^
This comment was written by callum.Report this comment to the moderators
March 28th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
[...] For one, I don’t think Walker addresses the fact that these girls are represented in an exploitatively orientalist manner. When Stefani came out with the Harajuku Girls back in April, the blogosphere was flooded with feminist and Asian-American critiques of how these four dolled up cyber-ghetto-geisha girls have become a harem-like accessory piece of a white girl (much of this criticism launched by a Salon article by MiHi Ahn and reproduced here by Howard French). The poster up top is a photoshopped expression of this critical perspective. [...]
This comment was written by Savage Minds: Notes and Queries in Anthropology ā A Group Blog » Commodifying Girls, Harajuku Style.Report this comment to the moderators
March 29th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Hi, I’m a regular reader of this blog but this is (I believe) my first comment
This comment was written by Molly.Just a question: Why are Americans so obsessed with Japanese culture in the first place? Whether its the Anime Otaku’s, the teenage boys who watch Japanese porn, or the fixation on the prototypical “Japanese Teen” its really kind of strange. I mean Japanese culture has a lot of complexities, and, as much as it may shock the people who fetishize the country, it has plenty of deep running cultural flaws as well as good points. Its really rather strange how the US is totally obsessed with East Asia. I mean a healthy interest in other cultures is one thing but an obsession that glosses over day to day social issues or the “mundane” aspects that don’t sell as well to foreign audiences is slightly ridiculous. Really thats my thought on the Harajuku phenomenon
Report this comment to the moderators
April 15th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
[...] basics of this story are not new: general cultural commodification combined with racialized doll-silence. As MiHi Ahn puts it in Salon: āGwen Stefani neuters Japanese street [...]
This comment was written by Harajuku Lover? Or Exploiter?: Authenticity of GothicLolitaware-lite « The Learned Fangirl.Report this comment to the moderators