On the topic of reducing child support this makes sense, each parent must provide housing etc for the children and if custody is split closer to evenly then the additional costs for each parent should tend to balance out (with at 50/50 custody neither parent giving or receiving money). Similarly if one parent is barred from seeing their child then realistically they should not be forced into supporting the child, I believe one feminist writer supported this with a comment along the lines of “If its 100% our choice then we bear 100% of the responsibility for it”.

I was required to commute 3,500 miles/month under a restraining order not to move my children 75 miles when re-locating for work. The referee reversed the established custodial environment without considering the ‘Best Interest Factors’, awarding more time with a father who had been court ordered to participate in counseling for abuse. DeNovo review supported the established custodial environment.

It would seem the Michigan courts are attempting social engineering with a hidden agenda: if women can no longer assume they will have custody of their children, divorce rates will decline.

Divorce is a reality. Much unnecessary suffering has resulted from this ill-conceived social engineering. Children would be best served by awarding custody in balance with the pre-divorce roles of each parent.

The ‘Primary Caregiver’ standard is gender neutral.

All you can do is pray for the child and I guess the wacked out mother too, That she will see her faults and see how she is only hurting the kid, Why cant they see that??? Divorce is sad indeed but the kids suffer no matter what, Think about if the parents were never married then what rights do the father have? (None in Indiana) You have to really fight for it and it cost a lot.

But to all the fathers reading this I wish you the best of luck and just know if you are being the best father that you can be and you know that your child belongs with you, It will happen, may be when the child is old enough to WANT to Be with you, to KNOW that they are better with you but it will happen so keep FIGHTING dont give up and GOOD LUCK.

I have been with my man 4 years and for 3 years we have been fighting to get his little girl whom is now 6, We did get Joint but The mother is still NUTS and likes to jerk us around whenever she can because she hates me, Talk about being unfair to your children, she takes the cake.
So we will continue to do what we can to make sure she gets to be the princess that she deserves to be…Even if it is only when she is with us, She will feel it for herself.

A GOOD FATHERS GIRL

My husband and I have one daughter together who is 3. He also has a 13 year old daughter (I’ll call her Jane) from a woman he dated years ago (she left him for the man she’s currently married to). He’s been fighting to see his daughter more for years now. His ex lives about 10 minutes away from us and since we all live in NYC even if one of us moves to a different area, it will never be that hard for any of us to see Jane.

Before I came into the picture there was no official custody agreement. Jane’s dad saw her 3 days a week on the nights that Jane’s mom was working. When Jane’s dad met me, Jane’s mom became really angry and started threatening to take away that time. Jane’s dad got scared and went to court to make sure that he could continue to see his daughter.

Well we live in NY State, where as it was best put by Barbara in comment #2:

“If sole custody is the desired outcome, the party may think it’s in their best interest to create or exacerbate conflict in order to promote the idea that they are too unreasonable to live with a joint custody arrangement, even in the absence of prior abusive treatment or escalating conflict within the marriage.”

My husband didn’t want his daughter to go through trial. She was only 6 at the time. Once he decided that he wouldn’t go through trial then it became up to Jane’s mom to decide how much Jane’s dad could see him. She gave them every other weekend, Wednesdays from 3 to 7pm, and after MUCH pushing from the guardian ad litem, every other holiday and 7 weeks in th summer. He went from seeing his daughter 3 days a week every week to hardly nothing.

Jane’s dad has tried to get Jane’s mom to go to mediation with him so that they can work out how to parent separately but together, but Jane’s mom refuses. She doesn’t have to so she won’t.

My husband is the poster dad for joint custody and really the classic example of how some families get really screwed by sole custody.

This was never an issue of money for child support. He’s never been late paying. And he would happily continue to pay under joint.

I know that alot of fathers are really crappy and abandon their kids. I just read Nick’s post about “child support and male entitlement,” but sometimes really good dad’s have to pay the price for the bad ones.

Amp is right in that forcing someone into relationships does not make sense. If they are not compelled to care and cooperate and be responsible as they should be anyway, what is forcing them going to do but cause more resentment that generally gets taken out on the kids?

Hats off to Barbara, Lee, Flydi, you definitely have the upper hand in this discussion, I am purly impressed with your patience in the face of blatant ignorance. Blessings.

“And why should either parent have to pay the other parent? It’s purely part of the Feminist Agenda, to make men pay.”

Amp, I think it’s time to revisit my earlier proposal: All MRA’s and anti-feminists should be barred from posting until they can pass a quiz proving that they have already read at least one of the threads pertaining to the subject they claim such expertise on.

The problem, of course, is mothers. Not fathers. As a General Rule. William Congreve was absolutely right:

Heav’n hath no rage like love to hatred turn’d,
Nor Hell a fury, like a woman scorn’d.

Gotta love assholes. Really, when feminists get accused of hating men, it doesn’t seem, given examples like this, that it’s unfair. In fact it seems like profound restraint.

I hope to God this fuck doesn’t have daughters.

I highly encourage those who are not actually experiencing the pain of divorce and joint custody to remember just that. As a liberal feminist I cant believe some of the comments on this site - they HAVE to be from folks who dont have children, or an x-spouse or half a brain for that matter. Staying married “for the sake of the kids” is the worst idea ever. Children need to see how to resolve conflict and be given a chance to see their parents happy or at the very least happier. Joint custody may not be the greatest solution, but too many adults put their own needs, wishes, fears, ideals, morals, etc first instead of doing what is best for the children.

Having just gone through a mediated divorce in Georgia and determining a custody schedule with a very difficult x-husband, I found myself wishing that Georgia also had the Maryland “cooling off year”. What a progressive idea! SO much changes in the first year of divorce, custody is tough. So many emotions and a bonafide feeling of loss. It’s not natural to not know if your child is ok or where he or she is!

Custody is difficult no matter how much theory you apply to it. It is infuriating to receive advice on custody from arrogant non-parent experts. I think we should educate and furnish tools to parents on mediating parental differences and continue to offer support as the new custody arrangements begin and develop. As a parent I would love to have someone provide factual information to both my x and I so we can make the best decision for our son.

But thinking about her story made me wonder if nannies could be the solution to the whole custody question. Instead of making the parents contest each other for the right to raise their children, what if divorcing parents had to hand over their children to a court-appointed nanny until they can prove they are mature enough to handle the responsibility of an amicable divorce and custody arrangement?

Speak for yourself! That’s only one aspect, and fair enough, but many fathers do actually love their kids and want to spend more than a token amount of time with them, as real fathers, not 2/14ths “Disneyland Dads”.

And why should either parent have to pay the other parent? It’s purely part of the Feminist Agenda, to make men pay.

The fact that children do badly when parents continue warring after separation overlooks one important thing: Parents need to grow up before they can bring up their own kids. If they can’t get over their grief about the breakdown of their own relationship, how can they support their kids through it? They shouldn’t have the kids at all.

And as many, in fact, can’t (get over it), what is needed to make parental relationship breakdowns less damaging to children is not unbalanced custody arrangements but compulsory post-separation therapy and assessment. If parents can’t grow up, put the kids up for adoption. The rate of instantaneous parental growing up would be astounding… And mature, balanced, conflict-free Presumptive Joint Custody would work very well for the children.

The problem, of course, is mothers. Not fathers. As a General Rule. William Congreve was absolutely right:

Heav’n hath no rage like love to hatred turn’d,
Nor Hell a fury, like a woman scorn’d.

The Biblical example of King Solomon’s wisdom is all the more applicable today.

The situation in D.C. is very different from in Maryland, mostly because D.C. is not a state. Not to get into state’s rights issues too much here, but D.C. has a very difficult time getting anything done with the 800-pound gorilla that is Congress poking its fingers in anytime it likes.

Well at least you’re honest…so support of presumptive Joint Custody is ANOTHER position feminists share with Mens’ Rights Advocates…

It also proves another point I’ve made. There is NOTHING feminists aren’t willing to put women and children through to institute their grand public policy visions; as this presumptive Joint Custody would impact never-married mothers and infants as well as divorced mothers of older children…

Oh well…

The good news is that Maryland is a small state with a minimal taxbase…and I suspect they will quickly find as Washington DC did when it tried to institute presumptive Joint Custody that Maryland just CANNOT afford it…as who is going to be financially responsible for all the benefits those kids need when everyone gets Joint Custody and no one is responsible for child support…

Probably they’ll start handling child support like they do in California now, where it’s allocated according to income as supposed to custodial status…

Good…since as many MRAs have often said ‘it’s not about the money, it’s about spending time with the children”…so they can now spend the time and the money as well…

Oh my God…

I just collapsed…

I’m on the floor unconscious…

Okay…

I’m alright now…