It was the first time I’d ever used crystal meth. I got higher than high, and when the girlfriends decided to pack it up and go home, I was still sitting on the couch tripping out. I think he invited me to stay and I think I told them I’d be fine. He came over and started getting physical. I let him kiss me and touch me. When he decided he wanted more, I was barely conscious and couldn’t seem to get my body to move. I don’t really remember a whole lot else, just a few images here and there - like watching a movie happening to someone else. I was very, very high. I know that I did not consent.

For years, I thought that since I didn’t resist or fight back (that I can recall), I was by implication consenting to it.
I figured that I’d asked for it - I mean how stupid can you get? Staying at a strange man’s house, doing drugs with someone I didn’t know, not having clear boundaries about the kissing and whatnot. But the fact of the matter is, I was very young then. I didn’t understand what was happening. I think sometimes we forget that there can be a disconnect between what we know intellectually and what we live on an everyday basis.

It’s one of those things like the ‘don’t talk to strangers’ rule, right? You know, you teach your kids all this stuff about never opening the door for a stranger, don’t talk to someone if you’re approached on the street, etc. etc. And then some stranger comes up to your kid and asks for help looking for his or her lost little doggie, and off your kid goes. Why? Because they are too young to understand that some people are bad - unless they have experienced badness first hand. They lack the developmental ability to put the ‘rule’ together with the situation and realize that they should not be talking to this person. In the moment, all they see is some poor man or woman who has lost their little doggie, and they want to help. The person before them is labeled “poor man or woman” in their minds, not “stranger”.

In the moment, all I saw was a nice guy who wanted to get high. I didn’t see how he was any different from any of the other nice guys that I knew to varying degrees with whom I had previously sat around doing dope. Looking back on it, I can see all the danger signs flashing, but at the time, thinking about rape was the furthest thing from my mind.

So what I’m saying is, it didn’t occur to me to assess my situation in terms of whether or not it was high risk for sexual assault. I was assessing my situation in terms of: is he interesting, is there more dope, do I know what bus to catch when I’m ready to leave here, do I want to go with my friends or do I want to stay and get high. It never occurred to me to ask the question, ‘is this safe?’

I feel ambivalent about prevention advice - on the one hand, I look at this situation and think that if I’d followed the ‘rules’, I probably wouldn’t have been raped. On the other hand, I wasn’t very good at following rules back then, and it pains me to think of young women today forced to analyze every situation that involves a man in terms of safety. I hear the argument that just because it’s painful doesn’t make it any less real, but my heart aches at the thought of teaching the women coming after me to be vigilant and wary, instead of relaxed and open. Then I start thinking that the world stinks.

So that’s my (grey area) view on prevention.

As for the blame thing, after years of blaming myself, I suddenly have realized that I couldn’t have known better. I had no way of knowing - I wasn’t able to assess the situation in terms of safety because I had no prior experience that suggested the situation needed to be assessed in that way. I was used to lots of people hanging out together, those I knew and those I didn’t, and nothing bad happening. When we are used to getting up everyday and not experiencing an earthquake, we do not expect an earthquake. No wonder we are shaken to the core.

“Do you want them to able to fight back or do you to believe that somehow society is going to change enough (like today) that they will not need to? ”
——————————————-

Bullies don’t pick on people who fight back, so maybe one helps lead to the other, and I think more women have to learn to value themselves enough to fight back, in different ways, individually and communally. Not just physically, but mentally, strategically, emotionally. The right to move freely in society, is not something that is going to be given to us, by men. It would be nice to think so, but it won’t happen, any more than it did with any other right that women had to fight for.

Young woman, and girls need to see that these rights are being fought for, so they can learn and participate in that and keep it going. But in the meantime, to learn to protect themselves.

It would be great if you could drink and let your guard down with men, but you can’t. I broke a bone in my hand punching a man in self-defense when I was walking back to dorm intoxicated. I was lucky to even be able to do that but I never was able to touch liquor again.

We don’t live in that kind of world. We also live in a “fairy tale” culture, to an extent, you know that women are supposed to be passive, swept off their feet. We know that’s not real, but the forcefeeding continues anyway, b/c it serves a purpose for patriarchy. Women are taught as young girls to NEVER kick or hit a man “THERE”. Hey, it’s perfectly okay imo, if you need to get away from someone trying to hurt you, why isn’t that taught to more girls? Check and balance system, imo.

As much as we want to, as much as it’s not fair, we can’t believe that all men are “nice” and would never hurt women. We know better and a lot of us find out the hard way.

I think that trying to keep yourself safe, in an unsafe world, and working to change the culture which promotes rape go hand in hand, and not necessarily in conflict. Women protecting themselves and each other, is part of change imo and can be done without assigning “blame” on victims which is stupid.

Unfortunately I believed the person that did the deed, and believed it was my fault and I was dirty because of it; I bore the shame for many years. (In fact, I still have echo’s that pop up and get me to react, I hate that.) I cannot say that it was the sole factor in my addiction and self abuse, however it was a contributor. The blessing is that I have come to see how that time has been blessed as I Administrate a 92 bed Drug and Alcohol facility and find that many of our folks are suffering from shame based issues that brought them to abuse drugs and themselves. Had I not suffered all those dark hours, I am not sure I could relate as well, and that truly is a blessing. I absolutely hate the shame that dwells in victims and the bullying that is behind the sexual assault. There is nothing as painful as holding a beautiful man suffering from addiction and depression rooted in abuse, knowing he was born perfect, and some twisted person did this to him. On the other side there is nothing more gratifying then sharing that burden so it looses its ability to harm anymore. I am mystified that our society has been willing to support this sort of atrocity, by not calling it what it is; we insure that it will continue to happen.

Blessings.

Does that count?

Quite the opposite. A generation ago, social constraints lowered the chance that a woman would report a rape, so there was little fear of getting punished to discourage rapists, and less sense that rapists (rather than their victims) were to blame.

Rock, I’m so sorry for what happened to you. I highly recommend you pick up Gavin de Becker’s book Protecting the Gift, which has excellent advice for avoiding those situations, yet doesn’t devolve into victim-blaming or “boys will be boys”.

But here are some stats from the college scene from http://www.edc.org/hec/pubs/factsheets/fact_sheet1.html :

Misinterpretation is an important factor, but in fact most men who commit acquaintance rapes plan their attacks in advance.6 A typical scenario is for a perpetrator to pressure his date to drink heavily so that she will be less capable of resisting an assault.7

Rape Settings
Most incidents of rape take place in the evening. The NCWSV survey suggests that 51.8 percent of completed rapes occur between midnight and 6 A.M., 36.5 percent occur between 6 P.M. and midnight, and 11.8 percent occur between 6 A.M. and 6 P.M.

Nearly 60.0 percent of on-campus rapes take place in the victim’s residence, 31.0 percent in other housing areas, and 10.3 percent at a fraternity.

Alcohol Use
The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA) 2002 report on college drinking estimates that more than 70,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 survive alcohol-related sexual assault or date rape each year.8

Alcohol and other drug use exacerbate the problem of misinterpretation of sexual intent but are also used to justify assault.11 Most college men believe that alcohol increases sexual arousal and legitimates nonconsensual sexual aggression. Most also believe that women who have two or more drinks are more interested than other women in having sex.

—–

It should also be said that men should curtail their drinking also.

Also:

“Since research has found that fraternities, athletics teams, and other male peer groups foster rape-supportive norms, some experts have suggested that prevention programs can be most effective when targeting these types of all-male forums.2″

Look, you guys and girls, I realize that no one here is ready to hear anything

Does that mean you think the women here are ready?

[and frankly I haven't met many human beings that when drunk are *less* likely to fight back... maybe if they're at the point of passing out they are, but then wouldn't that make any man think twice before pulling out his dick and trying to force it inside a woman... ???]

“But, by all means, we should be socializing girls and women differently. We should socialize them to fight back, to look men straight in the eye, to go for the balls everytime.”

I’m fine with that - they can all carry guns, too, as far as I’m concerned. But if they are drunk - they are less able to fight back.

Do you want them to able to fight back or do you to believe that somehow society is going to change enough (like today) that they will not need to?

Having said that, I fully believe that the ONLY way a woman can control/plan for/avoid/restrict rape is to NOT BE BORN A WOMAN.

Enough said about that. Now my mind is no longer open and you all can deal with my anger at your (general) unwillingness to address rape per se and to make excuses for the men that rape.

Virginia writes:

“Actually, as a health psychology student, I can appreciate your analogy to safety-related behaviors such as looking both ways before crossing the street. ”

And not to pick on Virginia, but I’m using her very succinct summary of the posts above hers as a launching pad.

This “analogy” of safety-related behavior assumes that all parties involved wish to avoid the same risks. No two drivers at any given time want to hit each other. The risk is fairly equivalent between both parties. No particular driver wants to hit any particular pedestrian, both believing that the risks outweigh the benefit in any particular situation.

Rape is none of the above. Rape carries benefits; for those of you unwilling to look at those benefits, the are:

Male orgasm
Male access to sex performed on women’s bodies
Male restriction of women’s access to public space; to include parks, neighborhoods, public facilities (banks, grocery stores, schools, court houses, etc.), government facilities.
Male restriction of women’s political voices (just go to dKos if you wonder what I mean)
Male restriction on women in combat
Male restriction on responsibility for other men
etc.

Furthermore, the sidetracking of rape discussions into issues of how men are also socially hurt is complete horseshit. You cannot place rape in a vacuum. Rape co-exists with prohibitions on women’s access to birth control and abortion. Rape co-exists with the institution of marriage. Rape co-exists with socially condoned dating norms.

Rape is MOST unlike a man getting high off of recreational drugs and walking around in a high crime district.

In fact, rape has nothing to do with that.

But, by all means, we should be socializing girls and women differently. We should socialize them to fight back, to look men straight in the eye, to go for the balls everytime.

WHAT WE SHOULDN’T BE SOCIALIZING THEM FOR IS THAT IF THE FAIL TO DO THIS, THEY DESERVE THE OUTCOME OF AN ACTION FREELY CHOSEN BY A MALE PERPETRATOR.

How is it that ya’ll are capapble of missing this distinction?

What year is it anyway? 2005?

My wife and I are struggling with our daughter’s naiveté when it comes to associating with people she doesn’t know that well late at night in unfamiliar places. (Stone cold sober, as she does not drink. (Dads an addict, lesson learned) Most of the people she hangs with are related through the Church family she shares, this is no relief as the men in church are susceptible to the same messages as the rest of society.) The reason is that we know the prevalence and permissiveness of men getting validated in aggressive behavior, and for blaming the victims of their crimes. Reality is that there is no circumstance where a man or woman has any excuse or reason to initiate assault. A vulnerable person either from drugs, size, age, etc. demands protection from those around them not exploitation. Compassion calls us to care for the weak not abuse them. One desiring or contemplating the abuse of another is totally responsible for any harm that occurs.

I hate it that my wife and I are spending so much time telling our daughter that she doesn’t need to be out that late, that she needs to suspect men, that they are capable of such things, especially those that know her. We all jump through the hoop, not just women because many men have been excused for the inexcusable for far too long. Kim is right on, there needs to be a dramatic shift in our community vision that calls rape what it is and stop the justifying no matter what the circumstances. I hate living in fear that my daughter (and others) because she is so trusting and gregarious will be an easier target for some jerk. I do not want her to have to change, there is something nice about trusting people and being present and available without fearing them. It is past time to hold people accountable for their actions, so the rest of us can just be ourselves.

As far as high risk behavior, I have been spun in many a dark place when I was using. I had some interesting experiences; I was not assaulted while slinging dope. That was done in a park on a sunny day by a friend I grew up under.

Blessings.

I think that’s it, cloudy.

I’m a lot older than you-all, and I’ve run all over the place doing pretty much what I liked - I hitchhiked around alone behind the Iron Curtain when there was an Iron Curtain, as well as other pieces of adventure - and I don’t have 100 years ahead of me to Reform Society Completely. I leave that to you young women.

I’ve made some changes in society - when I became a lawyer, it was a very daring thing for me to do - but pretty much from this point out I have to accept the facts and move forward. I still go camping alone in the desert, all that, and I have no intention of stopping any time soon.

I certainly don’t do, and never did, anything like 50 things a day to avoid the risk of assault. I’m 60 years old now, still looking pretty good, and I was said to be a reasonably hot babe in my day, so it’s not that. I naturally walk as though I owned the place - haven’t you heard? I own the place! - and maybe that’s one reason why I’ve never run into trouble. That and dumb luck.

Being drunk or otherwise impaired is riskier than having your wits about you. Maybe it shouldn’t be, but it is. No one, certainly not me, is going to blame you for someone else’s crimes because you were drunk, what kind of sense is that supposed to make, but if you don’t want to become a victim, and getting really really drunk isn’t, on balance, that important to you, you might think about it.

We really need to make sure we are adequately addressing the problem of rapists and what can be done in terms of rape prevention on their ends.

That it would be nice to just stop at rest areas on occasion and get some sleep instead of always paying for a motel.

Should I - as a female alone - fear being attacked?

It seems like - since a man might do this and get away with it - that we would like to think that women could as well. But in the real world - I don’t know that that is realistic.

And just because people shouldn’t attack - doesn’t necessarily mean someone wouldn’t.

Isn’t that what the conversation is?

I guess someone pointed out that everyone decides for themselves what risks they are willing to tolerate and essentially how much they are willing to spend - to live in a “safer” part of town, buy better locks or whatever.

And to some extent - spending money might help - sleeping in a motel instead of a car, for instance. (And some places it might be safe - but in a unfamiliar place - it might be difficult to know).

As much as people don’t like the idea that women who are drunk can be more at risk than those who are not (depending on the situation - hinging on whether there are predators around - esp. that one might not recognize as predators) - it seems like one of those facts of life that people can accept or not.

Accepting it does not mean accepting the blame or excusing rapists - it’s looking both ways before you cross the street - because of that occasional person who will see you and run over you - because they think they are entitled to.

I don’t think it’s possible to give anti-rape advice if you can’t give anti-rape advice because in so doing you are saying there are situations you may want to watch out for. Not all situations are equally safe. Not all times of day are as equally safe esp. in certain areas where predators are more likely to hang out.

And some situations seem perfectly safe and they aren’t anyway.