What do her tits have to do with anything?
| August 7th, 2005Liberal blog Fables of the Reconstruction provides a “conservative blog taxomony.” Some of it made me chuckle (”Dean Esmay is popular among right-wingers as one of those centrists who just happen to hate liberals and Democrats”) , but his description of Michelle Malkin is pretty deplorable:
Far-right affirmative action hire who is so bigoted she’d arrest herself for trying to cross a border. Famously published a book praising internment of Japanese-Americans that was (a) incoherent and (b) probably not written by her. If she didn’t have tits, she’d be stuck writing at Townhall.com.
One comment-writer at Fables, Disputo, wrote in response: “I could do without the sexist language. Isn’t Malkin’s writings enough fodder for complaint? Must you also denigrate her for being a woman?” As far as I can tell (and it’s very possible I’ve missed a bunch), Disputo is the one and only lefty to object to the sexism - even though, as David Bernstein at Volokh points out, plenty of lefties have provided admiring comments or links.
Before anyone tells me “it was just a joke, you can’t object to jokes,” how would you have reacted if he wrote “if she wasn’t a slant-eyes….”?
Not the first time Malkin has received bigoted criticisms, and far from the grossest. Still, it would be nice if the allegedly anti-sexist and anti-racist half of the political spectrum was more, y’know, consistently anti-sexist and anti-racist.
UPDATE: See also Sivacracy and The Debate Link. From The Debate Link:
…Under this view, Malkin’s popularity is partially premised on her position as someone conservatives can point to and say: “Look! We’re not racist–some minorities agree with us!”–a status that is interwoven with her status as a woman and minority. And one could then extrapolate that if Malkin didn’t provide that particular service to conservatives (IE, being a conservative minority woman), she’d be a non-entity.
That argument is sophisticated, controversial, and debatable (I make no comment on whether or not it is correct as applied to Malkin). It is not, however, conveyed in a crude posting that marks Malkin’s success as solely attributable to her “tits.” Make the latter argument, but the former should be an anathema to true liberals.
August 7th, 2005 at 1:39 pm
I think it’s one thing to argue that a pundit is where she is because she’s a good-looking woman. Quite another thing to argue that she’s where she is just because she’s a woman. Sounds like it’s the latter that was going on here.
Maybe it seems like splitting hairs to some to try and make that distinction, but since Pundit-land is so heavily marketed on/through TV, I think that it does tend to emphasize women who are beautiful, young, thin, and showing lots of leg. Y’know, like the rest of television.
If Reconstruction had stated, “If she weren’t a young, pretty woman, she’d be stuck writing at Townhall.com,” I don’t think it would leave such a bad taste in my mouth.
This comment was written by alsis39.Report this comment to the moderators
August 7th, 2005 at 2:05 pm
I was under the impression that it was a joke about how she is used as a token. Either way, it was meanly worded and didn’t come across as it should have.
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
August 7th, 2005 at 3:15 pm
We Are (Are We?) Better Than This
I remember once reading Andrew Sullivan on Michelle Malkin. Now, Sullivan is not a fan of Malkin (nor, for that matter, am I). But I distinctly recall him saying that regardless of our disagreements with her, Malkin endures far more than her fair sha…
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August 7th, 2005 at 3:36 pm
In addition to the trackbacked post, I’ve also written an update to the subject. It isn’t trackbacked because it doesn’t link to this post, but I think you’d find it interesting. It’s entitled “Standpoint Theory, The “Voice of Color” and “Uncle Toms”: Positioning Minority Conservatives”
This comment was written by David Schraub.Hope you enjoy!
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August 7th, 2005 at 3:47 pm
As I noted on one blog objecting to the perceived sexist language, it may be crude but I don’t view accusing righties of using women (and non-white men) to fulfill some kind of “hey, look at us, we’re not REALLY all rich white men!” quota - which I believe they do - is sexist at all. And I applaud the crude usage in this case for the same reason. These folks are a nasty piece of work, and they DO like to shove anti-women females and racist non-white conservatives in liberals’ faces as some sort of way of awardin them self-hatred medals. And ignoring this practice isn’t going to make it go away; it needs to be mentioned often, and bluntly.
This comment was written by Elayne Riggs.Report this comment to the moderators
August 7th, 2005 at 3:58 pm
That doesn’t strike you as patronizing in the slightest? It completely denies the agency of minority conservatives–it acts like they’re automatons. All due respect, but that’s racist too. I think that many conservatives do (if only subconsciously) “use” their minority compatriots in the manner you describe. But that is completely irrelevant to how we react to the minority conservative herself (in the case, as one Atrios commenter put it, comparing her to Thai child prostitute).
I subscribe to the liberal view on race relations–but I’m not so convinced of my own moral superiority that I’m willing to spit in the face of minorities who see the world differently than I do.
This comment was written by David Schraub.Report this comment to the moderators
August 7th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
No, David. It affirms the agency of majority conservatives. No disinterested third party would single out Michele Malkin for anything. She has nothing going for her. Majority conservatives aren’t above using people to shore up their own credibility.
It would undermine the agency of minority conservatives to say that they’re only motivated by favors from majority conservatives. I’m sure Michelle Malkin is sincere and that she’d be ranting about her pet issues, systemic incentives or no systemic incentives. That’s what I do. Why should I assume she’s any different?
On the other hand, she can’t write and she can’t think. If this were a meritocracy, nobody would ever have heard of her.
This comment was written by Lindsay Beyerstein.Report this comment to the moderators
August 7th, 2005 at 4:44 pm
I specifically said that I think some majority conservatives do use minority conservatives in that manner. However, Mithal’s post wasn’t attacking those conservatives–he was attacking Malkin, in terms that would clearly be sexist in other contexts.
If I said “Nobody would listen to Catherine MacKinnon if it weren’t for her tits”, I think we’d all agree it was sexist. This is true EVEN THOUGH MacKinnon specifically posis the value of her scholarship as being from a woman’s perspective (which I too think is valuable–minority perspectives are needed to counteract majoritarian bias). If she was a man, she couldn’t be writing from the “authentic female” perspective she claims she is–her sex is integral to her status as an academic. Hence, we get the following formulation:
“Catherine MacKinnon, whose popularity comes from her being a woman, should not be subjected to slurs saying that she’s only valuable because of her tits”
but
“Michelle Malkin, whose popularity comes from her being a woman, can be subjected to slurs saying that she’s only valuable because of her tits.”
While in a “pure” meritocracy (whatever that means), it may be true that we’d dismiss Malkin and laud MacKinnon (certainly, my conception of what’s right and wrong would suggest that), I’m not so confident in my vision of the moral order that I’m willing to skip the argumentative stage and go straight to demonizing my opponents.
One might add that a criticism “she can’t write and she can’t think” would presumably suffice to describe the negative view of Malkin. The “tits” reference–at best a jab at OTHER conservatives, not Malkin, at worst an example of latent sexism by which a woman’s perspective is inseparable (different from informed by) from her gender–seems gratutious (and hence why I see it as meanspirited).
This comment was written by David Schraub.Report this comment to the moderators
August 7th, 2005 at 5:31 pm
No disinterested third party would single out Michele Malkin for anything. She has nothing going for her. […] she can’t write and she can’t think. If this were a meritocracy, nobody would ever have heard of her.
Honey, have you seen the white men who are on talk radio and cable news? When did Bill O’Reilly or Rush Limbaugh become great minds?
This comment was written by PG.I agree that Malkin doesn’t come across as exceptional, but neither do they. It’s just a low standard for conservative commentary, period, and to claim that Malkin is any worse than the rest does smack of racism and/ or sexism. “Merit” in today’s media often is based on how inventively unpleasant one can be, not on how well one writes or thinks, and unfortunately Mithras’s sudden increase in hits is reflective of that general trend.
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August 7th, 2005 at 5:44 pm
Mithras Who Peed in the Sandbox
As there appears to be an impression that racism and sexism are considered acceptable among liberals, I feel obligated to write what otherwise seems like an unnecessary post*, just to say that “If she didn’t have tits, she’d be stuck writing at Town…
This comment was written by Half the Sins of Mankind.Report this comment to the moderators
August 7th, 2005 at 6:25 pm
I think you’d have to have your head in the sand not to think Malkin is another example of someone whose career is based, at least partially, on her minority status. For god’s sake, she wrote a book defending Japanese internment. While she’s not Japanese, I imagine the conservative establishment figured that she’s Asian-American would suffice to shield her from criticism.
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
August 7th, 2005 at 6:38 pm
And apparently Liberals think that being Filipino is “close enough” to Japanese that she’s a race traitor.
It’s so annoying when one is trying to dismantle Malkin’s awful arguments to have to contend with this sort of backdrop…
This comment was written by David Schraub.Report this comment to the moderators
August 7th, 2005 at 6:39 pm
No, I don’t think that. I just think conservatives couldn’t find a Japanese-American person to write the book, and were racist enough to think Filipino would do in a pinch.
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
August 7th, 2005 at 6:40 pm
And see how you tried to use her race to shield her from my criticism?
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
August 7th, 2005 at 7:15 pm
So does this mean that you think the claim behind that book isn’t hers to begin with?
This comment was written by Shawn.Report this comment to the moderators
August 7th, 2005 at 7:21 pm
No disinterested third party would single out Michele Malkin for anything. She has nothing going for her.
Really? She’s prolific, at the very least, and links constantly to other sources of information. That gets people a long ways in blog-world.
On the other hand, she can’t write and she can’t think. If this were a meritocracy, nobody would ever have heard of her.
Same goes for “5 Open Threads in a Row” Atrios. If he’s ever written anything that was (1) eloquent, or (2) thought-provoking, or (3) insightful, I must have missed it. His whole schtick is providing quick links (if that) along with cursory notes of his outrage over something or another. But guess what: That type of blog seems to draw a lot of readers, if it is indefatigably prolific.
Majority conservatives aren’t above using people to shore up their own credibility.
So what? One could just as easily say that black people are using those white liberals who support affirmative action.
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August 7th, 2005 at 7:50 pm
Really? She’s prolific, at the very least, and links constantly to other sources of information. That gets people a long ways in blog-world.
In no way, shape, or form does this preclude the theory that conservatives offer her extra support for her race and her sex. She’s popular for a number of reasons, and this is one and another is that her status as a racial minority makes it easier for her to dodge criticism for her own racism.
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
August 7th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
I just think conservatives couldn’t find a Japanese-American person to write the book, and were racist enough to think Filipino would do in a pinch.
And the hypothesis that Malkin HERSELF decided to write the book, isn’t even worthy of mention.
Because those Filipina gals don’t have personal agency. They only act when us white guys tell ‘em to.
I think there’s an interesting tie-in here to the thread about multiracial feminism, and white women’s assumptions.
This comment was written by Robert.Report this comment to the moderators
August 7th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
These racial arguments get infinitely circular. I used her race to shield her? From what–the charge that Filipinos effectively the same as Japanese? Guilty. It can’t be from the charget that her book is terrible–I agree with that. I just don’t think it makes the slightest bit of sense that her Filipino heritage gets drawn in as a criticism of HER.
This comment was written by David Schraub.Report this comment to the moderators
August 7th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
The briefest of visits to FreeRepublic will show that, for that particular demographic, Malkin’s tits do make a difference. (As do Coulter’s.)
And the hypothesis that Malkin HERSELF decided to write the book, isn’t even worthy of mention.
Heck, she doesn’t even write all of her eponymous blog.
This comment was written by ahem.Report this comment to the moderators
August 7th, 2005 at 10:05 pm
“I just think conservatives couldn’t find a Japanese-American person to write the book, and were racist enough to think Filipino would do in a pinch.”
I got tired of those paranoid leftie fantasies a long time ago.
And as for the racist, sexist insults directed at Michelle Malkin, Thomas Sowell and others, well, I was hearing bigoted pseudo-progressives say things like that 35 years ago. The left’s tendency towards bigotry is nothing new, it’s just that as its credibility declines it becomes more desperate and shrill.
This comment was written by pst314.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 4:13 am
In this case, I have to disagree. It was crude, yes, but no more crude than saying of some underqualified/unqualified schlub who has his underlings do his work for him, yet gets rewarded nonetheless, that “his dick got him the promotion” - e.g. the Wal-mart Class Action lawsuits. Which is crude and true and not sexist, either.
In general I do agree (and have argued longer and louder than most) that the Left is severely lacking in actual gender equity and progressive stances, on the whole, having been Borgified in large part by both the Right Wing Noise Machine and the unregenerate culture the Hegemony exploits.
But in this particular case, the earthiness seems appropriate, more so than saying discretely “valued for her XX chromosomes” or “her female pulchritude” or any other euphemism for being the token pair of nipples trutted out to show that “we’re inclusive” - just as when Pam in Durham calls Armstrong Williams et all “Step’n'Fetchits” and makes other harsh references to our racially-exploitative past, this is not itself a demonstration of racism.
(Note that I also took the author to task in a subsequent post for exluding women as an audience for the erotic, rather than passive objects…)
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August 8th, 2005 at 4:24 am
It’s the difference between saying “Ann Coulter is a cunt” and “Ann Coulter is where she is because she has a cunt” - the first is sexist ad hom, not simply insulting. The latter is insulting, because it argues (in capsule form) that her supposed qualifications are non-existent: that she is only a right-wing superstar because of her sex-appeal, not for any originality of thought or brilliance of intellect.
It’s like saying “Clarence Thomas has a job because he’s darker than a paper bag” - bald, true, not racist, uncomfortably invoking our swept-under cultural racism. All of them are willingly being exploited for traits that a) they have nothing to be praised for, b) ordinarily would get them disrespected by the same people who are using them, except c) they’re being played as pawns in a psy-ops game. (”See! We’re really more PC than those supposedly-PC hypocritical liberals!”)
The rhetorical shock-value of “cunt/tits” as apposed to “vagina” or “womb” or “bosom” in such statements can be valuable because it strips away the haze of romanticism and phony reverence of The Feminine that the conservatives have invoked from time immemorial, the glorification of a sanitized Motherhood that comes from people who really, when you scratch the surface, regard us as nothing more than a piece of tail…
This comment was written by bellatrys.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 5:05 am
From what”“the charge that Filipinos effectively the same as Japanese?
Please read this slowly: No, you used her actual race as a way to accuse me of being racist for criticizing her. When of course it’s clear that she was chosen specifically so that people hesistate to criticize her because she’s Filipino.
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 5:07 am
Or as belltrys put it above. It’ s funny to me that conservative rail against affirmative action when they actively seek out women to put down feminism, racial minorities to argue for racist policies, young people to argue for using the law to control the young, etc.
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 5:11 am
In fact, I’m beginning to think it was a stroke of genius to get a Filipino-American to argue for the internment of the Japanese because you get a double benefit–not only does her race shield her from criticism, you can immediately acccuse anyone who points this out of thinking that Filipino and Japanese are the same thing. A double disingenous dose of bullshit. Well done, well done.
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 5:44 am
But the author was ostensibly addressing other liberals, not trying to shock conservatives out of a romantic view of womanhood. Which makes the comment a type of locker-room talk, “just amongst us guys.” The fact that Malkin is Filipino also reinforces the nastiness of the comment, because of the whole passive-Asian-woman stereotype (”Oh, she’s just doing what those white guys in Conservativeland tell her to do.”) Filipinos and women have just as much right to be misguided, talentless, or crazy as white guys, without their inadequacies being tied to their race or their gender but evaluated on their merits (or lack thereof).
That said, many liberals are just as guilty of using minorities for their own purposes as many conservatives. Otherwise, we won’t be hearing so many “more inclusive than you” statements, with nose-counting statistics. Bleah. My sister’s family answers the race question with “Human,” which should be the answer we’re all striving for.
This comment was written by Lee.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 5:46 am
David, I’m pleased to see you posting here, since I’m a fan of your blog. But I’m frankly puzzled by this incendiary comment of yours:
If that’s a reference to Amanda’s comment (which is how Amanda took it), then it simply makes no sense - Amanda didn’t say or imply that Malkin is a “race traitor.” By seeming to accuse her of saying such a thing, you in essence started a flame war for no good reason.
If you were referring to Amanda, then I think you owe her an apology. If you intended to refer to something other than what Amanda said, then please clarify what it was you were referring to, in the hopes of ending this needlessly acrimonious exchange.
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August 8th, 2005 at 6:32 am
Totally wrong. Atrios made a name for himself pseudonymously. He built up his blog without disclosing his race or his gender.
Atrios doesn’t write that much original commentary, but when he does, it’s very good. Check out his stuff on Social Security.
This comment was written by Lindsay Beyerstein.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 6:37 am
All of them are willingly being exploited for traits that . . . b) ordinarily would get them disrespected by the same people who are using them
If you’re claiming that conservatives single out conservative minorities for special praise and acclamation, it doesn’t really make sense to accuse conservatives of having “disrespect[]” for those minorities.
If a given conservative says (crudely): “I dislike white liberals, and like white conservatives; and I dislike minority liberals, and really like minority conservatives,” how is the conservative treating minorities (as minorities) with any more disrespect than whites?
This comment was written by Niels Jackson.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 6:56 am
“The briefest of visits to FreeRepublic will show that, for that particular demographic, Malkin’s tits do make a difference. (As do Coulter’s.)”
Well, no they don’t. Her “tits” don’t mean anything. And she should not be criticized based on her body parts. What needs to be criticized is that someone, somewhere is using her as a token. **THAT** is the real issue; but it hides nicely behind her “tits”, doesn’t it? She is not responsible for being tokenized. She is, however, responsible for her shitty politics. Big difference.
This comment was written by Q Grrl.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 7:37 am
In fact, I’m beginning to think it was a stroke of genius to get a Filipino-American to argue for the internment of the Japanese because you get a double benefit”“not only does her race shield her from criticism, you can immediately acccuse anyone who points this out of thinking that Filipino and Japanese are the same thing. A double disingenous dose of bullshit. Well done, well done.
And all you had to do to avoid our cunning trap was to treat her as an individual human being instead of as an Other.
“…to get a Filipino-American to argue for the internment of the Japanese…” - because, again, it’s simply impossible for a nonwhite to have agency.
I would respond further, but I have to go induce Clarence Thomas to argue in favor of the Fugitive Slave Act. The conservative agenda never sleeps!
This comment was written by Robert.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 7:47 am
To my mind, it’s the AA reference that’s troublesome; it plays into the conservative mythology that AA means unqualifed.
The so-called ’sexist’ charge doesn’t have traction; folks like Malkin, Ingaham, Coulter, et al, would be virtually anonymous if they were 50-ish, white guys with bad combovers.
This comment was written by Natty Bowditch.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 8:09 am
Michelle Malkin’s views — and especially her apologetics for internment — are pretty obnoxious. But I’ve been uncomfortable for a long time with the sexist, racist attacks on her that you can find regularly in (for instance) the unmoderated comments on Eschaton. The rhetoric can get pretty vile. It’s also pretty annoying when people discuss work by people like Malkin as being something that someone else (i.e., some shadow right-wing hegemony) “got them” to do. I’ve got no doubt that Michelle Malkin’s quite capable of coming up with her own ideas, obnoxious as they may be. It’s one thing to acknowledge that the novelty of her ethnic background may have given her a “leg up” as far as making a career out of having these ideas is concerned, and another to say that she’s simply a puppet. That being said, though, anyone who’s got a sense of history might recognize that there’s nothing terribly “novel” about an ethnic Filipino having issues with the Japanese, especially relating to events in World War II. The Japanese occupation was brutal, bitterly resisted, and bitterly remembered as well.
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August 8th, 2005 at 8:26 am
I guess the main thing I’m trying to say is really two-fold: First, those on the right who think Michelle Malkin is “brave” for criticising other Asians, and those on the left who think she’s a “race traitor” for doing the same thing are both engaging in their own subtle form of racism. “Asians” are far from being a monolithic culture, and they are also far from having monolithic interests. Second, and on the same theme, a more cogent criticism of Michelle Malkin’s opinions regarding the internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII might be that as an ethnic Filipina, she may be too close to the issue to be objective. Given that she’s only one generation removed from the occupation, my bet is that there are lots of stories in her family about how bad the occupation was. If she’s being “contrarian,” it’s probably not been a purely intellectual exercise on her part.
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August 8th, 2005 at 8:29 am
Except of course that the right chose her specifically for her race and sex, Robert, knowing that conservatives could be counted on to disingenously claim that anyone criticizing her, no matter how correct in their assessment, could be accused of racism and/or sexism. Regardless of what we say.
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 8:33 am
I don’t think, by the way, that Malkin is a “race traitor”. She’s just racist, period. There’s no reason whatsoever to think that a Filipino-American has any special reason to care about the fate of Japanese-Americans, except of course basic human decency, something Malking showed she didn’t have when she wrote a book apologizing for the internment of innocent people, some of whom had family fighting for the US forces.
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 8:35 am
And I never said a non-white doesn’t have agency, Robert. Malkin has plenty of agency. She is not dumb and is totally willing to play the token for the cold, hard cash.
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 8:53 am
And apparently Liberals think that being Filipino is “close enough” to Japanese that she’s a race traitor.
I have noticed that liberals do not use the term “race traitor.” “Race traitor” is, traditionally, a term used in the USA by white supremacists. And I think that we can safely classify white supremacists as belonging to the right side of the American political spectrum. Look who first brought the term into play on this thread (hint: look at comment #12).
I find your attempt to brand liberals with terms used by mostly white supremacists to be despicable and indicative of your desperation to find anything to maintain the image that the right is being actively persecuted. It somehow brings to my mind the trick question, “When did you stop beating your wife?”
This comment was written by Jake Squid.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 9:20 am
It’s pretty interesting, too, that conservatives in this thread want so badly for “was promoted by other conservatives and given jobs in think tanks” to mean “has no agency”.
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 9:39 am
Keerist, Amper! What did you expect from a liberal blog
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August 8th, 2005 at 9:48 am
Except of course that the right chose her specifically for her race and sex, Robert…
“Chose her” for what? Our secret breeding program to create hyper-conservative Asian-American youth?
It’s pretty interesting, too, that conservatives in this thread want so badly for “was promoted by other conservatives and given jobs in think tanks” to mean “has no agency”.
But you didn’t say that she was promoted or given jobs. You SAID: ” it was a stroke of genius to get a Filipino-American to argue for…”
That’s a denial of agency. She didn’t act; we acted, when we got her to do our bidding. She didn’t have a stroke of genius; we had a stroke of genius. And so on.
Even when you backpedal and say that she does have agency, you cast it explicitly in terms of her whoring for someone else’s agenda: “She is not dumb and is totally willing to play the token for the cold, hard cash.” Why not say that “she is not dumb and is totally willing to work with people she agrees with in order to advance her agenda”?
Because - again - its impossible that she could actually believe what she says, and be saying it because she believes it to be important.
This comment was written by Robert.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 9:53 am
Streeeeeeeetch harder, Robert. If someone I knew hired someone to do a job, and I said, “Who’s that new person you got to do X job for you?”, would you really say that I’m denying that new employee has agency?
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 9:55 am
Thanks, Q. I was beginning to feel rather alone here.
And, no, bellatrys, I don’t think that insults based purely upon a possession of female body parts makes for legit criticism or even very funny insults. Strictly speaking, it’s Ann Coulter’s Barbie-Doll-On-Speed persona that keeps her in the spotlight and the conservative yutzes panting and buying. I’m sure that there are any number of Rigthie females out there who could rail at liberal “traitors” and what not just as well, if not better, than Coulter. However, they probably have the misfortune to be short or over forty. Perhaps they are “cursed” with thick glasses, big noses or big butts. In other words, they are “cursed” with looking more like me or some other random woman riding the bus to work than they do like a hyperactive supermodel. Male pundits can get away with not resembling movie stars or sex godesses as they rocket to fame. Female pundits can’t.
Look, I’ll cop to using gender-based insults from time to time, but I don’t think that they represent my better side. I would try like the blazes to keep them out of any critique of a Right-winger meant for publishing. This has less to do with good manners or fear of looking mean than with a desire to keep the main issues being discussed front and center.
This comment was written by alsis39.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 10:13 am
Jake Squid:
If you think that liberals don’t use the term “race traitor,” you haven’t looked very hard. Try reading up on what some liberals say about Clarence Thomas. For example, Manning Marable explicitly says that Thomas (and other conservative blacks) are race traitors. So does a book edited by two Georgetown professors. Use Google, and you’ll find plenty more references. (Such as this Margaret Cho article about none other than Michelle Malkin, or this article about Condi Rice.)
Amanda — you seem to be smart enough to understand what “has no agency” means. It means that when you describe Malkin by saying that “the right chose her specifically for her race and sex,” and that “it was a stroke of genius to get a Filipino-American to argue for the internment of the Japanese,” you are describing a situation that does not exist: Some (unnamed) people on “the right” decided that a book needed to be written on Japanese internment, looked out over the field of possible candidates to accept such an assignment, and then “got” Malkin to write the book. Not only does that situation not exist in the first place, it denies Malkin agency, i.e., it assumes that she is an empty vessel, a tabula rasa, with no ideas of her own, just sitting around waiting for her next assignment from her controllers.
At least give her the credit of coming up with stupid ideas on her own.
I had said,
Lindsay responds:
So he built a name pseudonymously? That is completely irrelevant. The point was, you said that Malkin must be trading on her race/sex because there is no other explanation for her popularity (because she can’t write or think). I wasn’t trying to come up with a counter-example of a liberal who is also trading on race/sex. That would be a tu quoque fallacy (remember your philosophy!). Instead, my point was that being able to write/think are not the only qualities that make a blogger popular. Indeed, when I look at Atrios, Daily Kos, and Instapundit, I think that writing/thinking are completely pointless when it comes to building a successful blog. What matters is whether the blogger posts about timely topics incessantly and around the clock, along with occasional grunts that satisfy the partisan instincts of a particular set of readers. That’s all it takes: No heavy thinking or eloquent writing necessary.
Thus, Malkin’s success might also be explained by the fact that she blogs a lot, and does so with comments that satisfy partisan readers.
This comment was written by Niels Jackson.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 10:14 am
Um, why does the blockquote function turn text bold at random intervals?
This comment was written by Niels Jackson.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 10:34 am
Niels: You need to put an empty line both before and after the blockquote function, or it turns the rest of the comment into bold. Amp explained it once.
About this Michelle Malkin business… Well, she writes fairly decently (that is, technically decently, no comment on human decency) and is probably quite intelligent. However, it seems pretty obvious that if someone looking like Archie Bunker would have written “In Defense of Internment” the book wouldn’t have the extra (fake, as she is Filipino, check what nolo said) credibility that it has now, her being Asian(Filipino)-American, thus “the same race” as American(Japanese)-Americans (and thus discrediting Asian-Americans who criticize internment as being part of “special interest” and partisan politics). Of course conservatives that have edited/distributed/marketed her book know this, and intend to take every advantage of the fact (they finally get to call their opponents racists too).
Her looks should be irrelevant to liberals and conservatives both.
This comment was written by Tuomas.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 11:34 am
No, liberals don’t use words like “race traitor.” They say “oreo,” “Uncle Tom,” “banana,” “coconut,” and other code words that mean the exact same thing as “race traitor”, so they can look innocent when they’re called on it.
This comment was written by M. Scott Eiland.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 12:09 pm
Amanda, you write:
and
You keep using phrases like “the right chose her specifically” and “they actively seek out women”. Who are ‘the right’ and ‘they’? Do you really believe there is some sort of shadowy and powerful cabal on ‘the right’ which actively seeks out weak and submissive minorities whose minds can be captured and manipulated for their evil masters? This seems similar to the problem hilzoy talked about at ObsidianWings with her article Who, Exactly, Is This “Left” About Which I Hear Such Strange And Dreadful Things?
This comment was written by Sebastian Holsclaw.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 12:12 pm
Do you really believe there is some sort of shadowy and powerful cabal on ‘the right’ which actively seeks out weak and submissive minorities whose minds can be captured and manipulated for their evil masters?
We prefer “vast” to “shadowy”.
This comment was written by Robert.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 1:31 pm
I’m not going to put words into Amanda’s mouth, but this is how I would address the question were it asked of me.
Leftwing bloggers have charged that Malkin is not the sole author of her blog, and by extension she may not be the sole author of her books. This would suggest that she is partially a sock puppet for some individual or group of individuals pushing an anti-liberal agenda.
This isn’t a charge of a vast rightwing conspiracy. Just a small and sloppy one:
Ghost Blogging?
This comment was written by Ryan.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 1:32 pm
Jake Squid…while the term “race traitor” may initially have been used by white power groups, Malkin has been accused by those on the left of being “a traitor to her race”…in other words a race traitor. Therefore your argument falls flat.
This comment was written by Eve.Amanda, apparently you believe that the only way a conservative non-white woman can get anywhere is if she is “chosen”. That sounds very prejudicial. And perhaps its because your head is buried in the sand, but have you ever noticed the way “liberals” or “the left” or Democrats also trot out their minorities to say “Hey look we have some blacks and a couple of Latinos, look how progressive we are!”
To assume a priori that a non-white minority can only be liberal and if they’re conservative then its some sort of conspiracy is simply racist…not all minorities agree with the White Liberal Establishment, as much as you want to pretend they do. In fact, the black community on a whole tends to be more socially conservative; just check out opinion polls on issues such as homosexuality and gay rights, you will find that a majority of blacks agree with social conservatives when it comes to that (indeed, the anti-gay marriage bill recenly passed in Oregon had an equal number of black and white voters voting “aye”).
I also tire of the liberal portrayal of all non-white minorities as victims in need of assistance from progressive white liberals. That view itself is simplistic and a touch racist because it presumes that minorities cant do anything for themselves unless they are “helped”. If we look at the examples set by Asian Americans, including Southwest Asians such as Indians, we see that it is possible to advance in this country without white liberal poseurs pretending to be your friend to assuage their own sense of guilt. This is especially pertinent since affirmative action policies routinely discriminate against high-achieving Asians in favor of low-scoring blacks or Latinos. That blacks and Latinos are the favored subjects of progressive policies and yet as a demographic consistently score lower or achieve less than their white and Asian counterparts says volumes about how “helpful” such “progressive” policies and attitudes have been.
For progressive liberals to be so harsh to a minority woman who disagrees with their prescrptives for “improving” the race indicates more about their own racist and patronizing beliefs than it does about Ms. Malkin.
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August 8th, 2005 at 2:29 pm
Ryan:
Leftwing bloggers have charged that Malkin is not the sole author of her blog, and by extension she may not be the sole author of her books.
On what evidence have they made that charge? The mere fact that Malkin is prolific? Why are they picking a minority woman against whom to make that charge, as opposed to any number of other bloggers that I could name.
This would suggest that she is partially a sock puppet for some individual or group of individuals pushing an anti-liberal agenda.
The link that you posted merely speculated that Malkin’s husband might help her out on the blog. Um, ok. So that makes Malkin a “sock puppet”? How does that figure?
This comment was written by Niels Jackson.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 2:44 pm
Niels,
There’s no reason to come after me. I was just responding to a question posed by Sebastian above.
Why are they picking a minority woman against whom to make that charge, as opposed to any number of other bloggers…?
I’m not sure I understand this question. It seems to suppose that race has something to do with the motives. Auguste, the main blogger at Malkin(s)Watch, uncovered some evidence on the blogger he chose to follow. He’s explained in the past that Malkin just happened to be the topic he chose to write on when he decided to jump into the blogging game.
As for your conclusion that this is all mere speculation, I believe it is Auguste who has put his reputation on the line to make these charges. No one has been able to refute him, and your response to the charges is identical to all of Malkin’s apologists - totally without substance.
This comment was written by Ryan.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 3:50 pm
Tuomas wrote:
They should be, but as Pundit-land is at least as much about show biz as it is about politics, I see no reason to pretend that looks are irrelevant. The people running Pundit-land and the rest of the media certainly don’t find looks irrelevant, however much they might claim innocence if pressed on the issue.
This comment was written by alsis39.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 4:09 pm
Amanda, apparently you believe that the only way a conservative non-white woman can get anywhere is if she is “chosen”.
Actually, I think every conservative who has her support and funding is “chosen”, regardless of his/her color or sex. Someone chose to let Ben Shapiro and Mike Adams publish at Townhall. They’re “chosen”.
Have any of you ever had support or a job or anything? Then clearly you have no agency.
It’s cute, really. But Malkin is an ugly racist and you can’t use her race to deflect criticism from her as much as you’d like.
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 4:11 pm
When it comes to defining a woman as being a sum of her body parts, well, liberals and conservatives can be equally good at doing that. Sexism is not exclusively a conservative, or liberal vice. And a woman, who can’t walk down a city street without some man yelling “nice tits” or “show me some”, it’s just piles more sexism into the day to read this crap.
I’m not saying that in defense of what Malkin has done, said or written, and I’m not qualified as I’m not familiar with her product to enter into that discussion.
I just think that maybe, people could just criticize words, and actions of her aand other women, and not bring female body parts into it. When I see someone saying or writing if it weren’t for her tits/breats, whatever, I just don’t take them seriously as anything but yet another sexist leftist fighting sexism, maybe at large, but not inside his own head.
This comment was written by Radfem.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
No one has been able to refute him?
Well, what is it supposed to take to “refute” him? A 24-hour-live-video-feed of Malkin actually typing out all of her blog posts? Come on. It’s enough to say that all Auguste has in the first place is “speculation.”
No, I take it back. Even if what Auguste speculates about is true — i.e., that Malkin’s husband helps her out — that’s no reason for you or anyone else to label Malkin a “sock puppet for some individual or group of individuals pushing an anti-liberal agenda.” Even if Malkin’s husband helps her, why are you assuming that he’s forcing his ideas on her rather than vice versa? Quite an anti-female assumption to be making here.
This comment was written by Niels Jackson.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Why not say if she were not an attractive woman(as alsis said earlier) so that at least she would be defined as a person and not a body part(s)?
This comment was written by Radfem.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 4:16 pm
Amanda —
I guess you are silently backing away from your spurious and mean-spirited accusation that “it was a stroke of genius to get a Filipino-American to argue for the internment of the Japanese,” as if 1) someone out there (not Malkin) decided to have someone write such a book, (2) picked Malkin, and (3) then force-fed Malkin the words to say.
Why bring in the subtly racist and anti-feminist assumption that minority women can’t have ideas of their own, and that if they say something stupid, it’s because some conspiratorial force told them what to say?
This comment was written by Niels Jackson.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 4:16 pm
Heh–if I said that Ben Shapiro was chosen to write a book condemning young people because he’s a young person, I doubt you guys would be all puffed up with fake outrage at my secret youth hatred.
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 4:19 pm
I never said they forced the words. How can you people not understand the difference between having a check waved under your nose and physical force? She chose to be a racist twit and she’s made out handsomely. But yes, I don’t doubt there’s “guidance” for young conservatives into writing on topics that older white men can’t get away with writing about.
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 4:21 pm
But of course you’re all right. Because Malkin is a woman and racial minority, I should assume she sprung fully formed from the head of Richard Scaife and was never ever guided into writing on certain topics by people with ulterior motives.
Also, when I fart it smells like roses and diamonds pop out.
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 4:25 pm
No, you should assume that she says what is in her own mind, and then address her arguments on their own merits (if you’re going to address her at all). Is that so hard?
This comment was written by Niels Jackson.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 4:27 pm
Ampersand–
I certainly didn’t intend to start a flame war!
As I said, it is getting phenononally frustrating to watch the racial/sexual aspects of this discussion get infinitely circular. For whatever reason, nobody seems convinced that I cannot stand Malkin or her ideology, but merely don’t think she should be subjected to crude taunts based on her sex. Instead, we’re grouping the two distinct types of criticisms of Malkin–Malkin is a conservative hack versus Malkin’s success is entirely attributable to her “tits.” I subscribe to the former, but not the latter.
Note the conflation. I don’t ever protest Amanda’s criticisms of Malkin per se (how could I, I agree with them!). I protest the specific gender/race-linked criticism. The racism accusation kicks in insofar as Amanda cannot even conceive that Malkin might be considered persuasive by the type of reader already suceptible to her ideological bent. So my “read this slowly” would be that Malkin’s race (like anybody’s race) is a shield against criticizing her on account of her race. If Eric Muller wants to KO her on arguments, I’ll be cheering with all the rest.
Put another way, for a particular branch of the conservative blogosphere, the way you become successful is by engaging in crude polemics and shoddy reasoning in favor of a set ideology. When white male bloggers do it and are “successful,” nobody thinks its because of their race. When Malkin does it, it’s immediately assumed that it is her race that is the cause, despite the fact that by the “objective” yardstick (good at shoddy polemics), Malkin is indeed quite talented.
In other words, the very stereotype that supporters of Aff Action (like me, contra Amanda’s insinuation (”It’ s funny to me that conservative [sic] rail against affirmative action…”)) desparately try and combat–white as the norm, minorities as deviant (unless they act like we expect minorities to act).
In this discussion, Ms. Malkin has gotten entirely “raced” (”sexed”?). Her views have gotten tied up wholly into her minority status. This isn’t to say I don’t think that status is relevant–I think it is on several levels, both as a standpoint issue for minorities as a whole and as one for minority conservative specifically. But the race/sex issues have become indivorcable from the ideological ones–it’s become impossible to oppose the conservative without opposing the Filipino Woman (which then in turn makes a race a proxy for political ideology, with both sides saying the other is illegitimately using (hiding behind/attacking) her race, the objective being to prove the other side is racist. This presumably is why Jake Squid thinks I’m a conservative, when I’ve tried to stress that I’m a liberal who subscribes to Critical Race Theory (and who just happens to take all of its conclusions about how we race people seriously)). The implication of some of the commenters here is that Malkin is popular because she is deviant from the stock minority. She’s the conservative (read: odd) minority, as opposed to just a plain old “normal” (read: liberal) minority. This is the context of the “race traitor” comment (which may have been a bit overheated, I was frustrated)–Amanda’s argument necessarily is premised on Malkin’s view somehow not being “authentically” minority (even her view is authentic insofar as she geniunely believes it, its still somehow deficient in that it is irrepresentative of what a minority “should” believe–otherwise, conservatives would have no reason to trumpet it!), her minority status just a facade so that conservatives can pretend to be tolerant. If her view isn’t “authentic” (indeed, standing in direct challenge to the “authentic” view), though, what is it?
This is what I’ve been writing about on my own blog–the parallels between the experience of minorities in general and minority conservatives in specific. Both are typecast and are bitterly attacked when they stray from their roles. As Professor Bell notes, to the right, a minority who speaks out against racism is presumed to be biased, gunning for her selfish interests, and otherwise (as a default rule) not an objective witness. A minority who speaks from a traditional conservative view, by contrast, gets “enhanced standing” as a rebel, someone who looks past her own group politics, etc (this is the stance Amanda and others are criticizing). However, what’s being missed here is that liberals do the exact same thing, but reversed. Minorities who speak against racism (or take left views generally) are assumed to have the proper “standing,” they’re “from the bottom,” “experienced,” etc., and thus they get “enhanced standing.” Minority conservatives, by contrast, are assumed to be bought and paid for, speaking from an “impaired consciousness” (MacKinnon’s term), or at best useful dupes who’d otherwise be totally obscure. The impact is the same–minorities who agree with us are the only ones who possess merit. Those who don’t are commie radicals (to conservatives)/uncle toms (to liberals).
So if I agree that many conservatives do grant enhanced standing (with the corresponding subordination of liberal minorities) to minority conservatives, AND I believe that liberals do the reverse, why doth I protest so much? Simply put, with race politics as entangled as they are, I’m very reluctant to posit one side as entirely blameless and the other as demons (outside of particular policy positions–like Malkin on internment). It is not proven that Malkin would be a nobody if she wasn’t a Filipino woman (which of the bloggers in her ideological neighborhood are smarter? LGF? Hugh Hewitt?). Because of that, and mindful of the harsh legacy of sexist and racist discrimination levelled against all minorities by all of mainstream society, I will be prudent and refrain from automatically assuming that her tits are the root cause of her popularity.
Somehow, I don’t think that will stop the flame war though…sorry :-/
This comment was written by David Schraub.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 4:50 pm
David wrote:
That’s not what I said, David. I actually agree that crude taunts are stupid and undermine emphasis on the real issues/content of the woman’s work. At least radfem seems to grasp the distinction I was trying to make: It’s not at all enough to just have “tits.” You have to have a certain kind of “tits”, as well as a certain nose, legs, hair, age bracket, wardrobe, etc.
To not consider that as a factor makes no sense to me, especially on a feminist board.
If that was the approach Reconstruction had made, I would actually have agreed wholeheartedly with him.
This comment was written by alsis39.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 4:54 pm
Malkin is a twit. That’s in her own mind. However, unlike all the other racist twits out there, the majority of whom are white, she’s a handsomely paid racist twit. Which is the result of many factors, including the convienent factor that her race gives conservatives an opportunity to pretend any criticism of her is racism. This does not mean there aren’t lots of racist twits out there who are white and handsomely paid. The conservatives in this thread want one thing to preclude another and that’ s not going to happen.
Let’s be clear–Malkin chose to be a twit on her own, and her twit-ness is useful, and the fact that she is Asian-American makes her twit-ness all the more useful. None of these things makes the other things untrue.
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 4:54 pm
I’m confused–you weren’t the person my post was directed at. It was more to Amanda and a few others.
This comment was written by David Schraub.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 4:56 pm
For what it’s worth, I’ve never been a person to fling racist or sexist insults at Malkin, because I don’t care really what her race or sex is. Her twit-ness is the problem. But let’s not play pretend-conservatives-don’t-hire-tokens. That’s just silly talk.
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 5:12 pm
Well, you didn’t exempt me, David. So there really wasn’t any way for me to know. You said “nobody,” as opposed to “almost nobody” or, “nobody whose well-known in liberal blog-land.” :p Ah, never mind.
This comment was written by alsis39.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 5:16 pm
“That being said, though, anyone who’s got a sense of history might recognize that there’s nothing terribly “novel” about an ethnic Filipino having issues with the Japanese, especially relating to events in World War II. The Japanese occupation was brutal, bitterly resisted, and bitterly remembered as well. ”
This comment was written by BritGirlSF.Finally. It always amazes me that people discuss Malkin’s book all the time without acknowledging that the unpleasant history and lingering ill feelings between the Filipinos and the Japanese may have something to do with why Malkin decided to write her book. I know one middle aged Filipina woman who won’t even eat Japanese food and won’t let her grandkids watch anime because her hatred and distrust of Japan is still so strong. There’s a lot of bad blood there, and it dissapoints me that so few people on the left seem to be aware of the history that might be motivating Malkin.
I see a lot of both sexism and racism when the Left discusses Malkin. Her ideas in and of themselves are sufficiently obnoxious and idiotic to attack her on those grounds. Why the urge to go so quickly to the race and gender based insults?
So, the “tits” comment was way out of line. If anyone wants to make the comment that Malkin is promoted in part based on her gender it would make more sense to point out that her success is largely due to her being young and pretty (ie, a symptom of the way the media works in general).
However, I do think that the Right is PROMOTING her (as opposed to the idea that they somehow induced her to write a book in defense of the internment, when in fact I’m willing to bet that no inducement was needed - Malkin may be obnoxious, but she’s quite capable of being obnoxious all by herself with no assistance from anyone else) because they are counting on the inability of the american masses to tell the difference between a Filipina and a Japanese woman. They’re using Malkin’s book as a way to soften up the public so that they can push for removal of the civil rights of Muslims using much the same faulty logic that was used to justify the Japanese internment. So sure, Malkin’s being used, but it’s possible to point that out without describing her as some kind of a mindless fembot or resorting to sexist insults.
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August 8th, 2005 at 5:20 pm
Britgirl wrote:
My Jewish, Polish-born grandmother was the same way about Poland and the Gentile Poles, right up to the day of her death. :(
This comment was written by alsis39.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 5:23 pm
alsis39: I think we can all agree this thread is rapidly getting quite overheated. I’m being accused of being a conservative who loves Michelle Malkin, which is false. As a result, I got defensive and lashed out against “everybody” (or, since I was using negative terms, “nobody”). These things happen when emotions are running high–but its better to be specific than to group everyone together as an attacker.
So, bygones?
This comment was written by David Schraub.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 5:27 pm
Of course, David. Since I’m to the Left of most of the liberals here, I’m sure we can find something else to flame about in good time. ;)
As long as I’m on that subject, I never meant to imply that liberals and those further Left never partake of racism, sexism, homophobia, and the rest of the “-ism” salad bar. Plenty of threads here are testimony to that fact.
I’m not sure how I feel about Amanda’s assessment of Malkin as a token, because frankly I don’t keep up with the conservative wing enough to know if she’s literally the only Asian of any prominence there. Does anyone else know ?
This comment was written by alsis39.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 5:42 pm
I doubt that she’s all that rare, alsis. But my gut feeling is she’s a smart, smart person and is using the the fact that any and all criticism of her will be met with a swarm of conservatives who pretend they are suddenly concerned about racism and sexism, when of course they didn’t care enough about it to protest her apology of imprisoning innocent people and stripping them of their property. And of course, my supposed racism is far more vile than that of her buddies the Minutemen, who try to dress up what is essentially human-hunting as noble patriotism and yet tolerate the presence of neo-Nazis in their midst, people who, unlike the Japanese interned in camps, proudly align themselves with fascists who killed Americans.
This comment was written by Amanda.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 5:52 pm
That actually is worth saying too–the attack on Malkin is clearly not “worse” than her attack on Japanese Americans. There is a clear difference between a sexist insult and advocating the complete subjugation of an entire class of people.
But as I wrote in the title of my own blog post–I thought we were better than this? The mantra of liberalism shouldn’t be “meaningfully less racist than Michelle Malkin.” It should be “opposing racism: anywhere, anytime, towards anyone.”
This comment was written by David Schraub.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 6:26 pm
Conservative for a Day
I’m tired. Defending minority conservatives has drained a lot out of me. It’s a thankless job, for obvious reasons. Liberals aren’t happy because they don’t like being interrupted while flogging an easy target. Conservatives aren’t happy because m…
This comment was written by The Debate Link.Report this comment to the moderators
August 8th, 2005 at 6:26 pm
Niels -
You bring up a couple good points. Before giving me an inch in this argument you wrote: