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	<title>Comments on: What do her tits have to do with anything?</title>
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	<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/</link>
	<description>Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 18:38:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: The Liberal Avenger: Ghost blogging?</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-274215</link>
		<dc:creator>The Liberal Avenger: Ghost blogging?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 08:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] to generate that kind of crap?" This was the question Pepper asked in the comments for Auguste's Ghost Blogging post here. Pepper was, of course, talking about Michelle and Jesse Malkin's talking-point turd-polisherof a blog.*The answer is, apparently, yes. Yes, according to the independent sources Auguste had in his Rolodex before "Ghost Blogging" was posted and yes again, according to the new sources who have come forward since.According to one source:Jesse Malkin is the driving force behind Michelle. He is a control freak. Michelle is no innocent victim either. She chose to be with the guy, and apparently they have been successful as this wingnut juggernaut. She needs him as much as he needs her.It's a match made in heaven, perhaps. Or at Oberlin.*As opposed to my talking-point turd-polisher of a blog.III. So What Does it Matter? - AugusteThe most common question asked of me following this post goes a little something like this:Okay, let's say you're right. What difference does it make?That's a good question. First of all, as noted in this post by LA, I am right, as has been confirmed by sources who have come forward since the original post. I was cagy about some of the evidence I had for multiple reasons, none of which I'll go into here.Second, I am not attempting to destroy Michelle's career, nor am I foolish or crazy enough to believe that I could even if I wanted to. Worse has been done than anything I'm suggesting of Michelle by many people. That said, I'd like to suggest a few reasons why this might matter, if only a little.Disclosure: The Liberal Avenger and I had many discussions about this story prior to its publication, and some of these ideas more likely belong to him - he's already written about some of them in his comments section, as well.It's the lying. As I noted in my initial post, Michelle has gone out of her way to promote the idea that she is the sole proprieter of her blog. Perhaps her resolve slipped in recent days, for as LBC noted, the new Immigration Blog lists simply "Malkin" as a byline. It just seems that she's guilty of protesting too much in, without prompting, taking full credit for "her" output. Maybe it's just another right-wing lie, or maybe it's more significant.It's the scandal.Michelle has always been very hot on the idea that blogs are home to better reporting than the mainstream media. Well, one of Rick Bragg's biggest transgressions was allowing others to write stories under his byline. If Michelle were to admit that "Michelle Malkin" is a generic byline for both herself and Jesse, then fine. Except, of course...It's the persona.A quick glance through Technorati reveals, if one didn't know already, that Michelle is something of a right-wing darling. She's not the only one, on either side, either - this is the age of celebrity journalism. She's bright, photogenic, and talented, and, in my opinion, finds a much more forgiving audience because of it. While, as I noted in my original post and continue to state, I have no doubt that she is responsible for much of what appears under her name, the introduction of Jesse into the equation does tend to confuse the issue. This is not to say that opinions are more or less valid coming from a minority female than a white male, or vice versa, although I am sure that is what I will be accused of saying. Rather, it is a statement of fact that the public, en masse, often reacts this way. It seems more than possible that Jesse Malkin, a white male, producing anti-immigrant, racially focused writings, would only ever be a face in the crowd.It's the questions it raises. As LA notes:Has "Michelle" ever blogged or written about topics related to what Jesse was working on for the government at the think tank while Jesse was still connected with the think tank in any way?It's none of the above. At the bottom of all of this is, honestly, "I report - you decide." As I noted on LA's comments thread:I chose a topic for a blog...My topic happens to be one particular writer.Then I realized my topic is actually two particular writers, so I wrote that.Michelle/Jesse love, love, love the idea of bloggers replacing the MSM as the source of investigative reporting. This is just playing by their rules.IV. Me,me,me - Auguste (8/05 semi-followup)Far-right affirmative action hire who is so bigoted she'd arrest herself for trying to cross a border. Famously published a book praising internment of Japanese-Americans that was (a) incoherent and (b) probably not written by her. If she didn't have tits, she'd be stuck writing at Townhall.com.Hoo-doggie. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Mithras didn't quite expect the backlash he got from this post (not to say he's upset by it.) Interestingly, it wasn't until just this minute that I even realized that his original post was from a week ago today. Funny how, in a supposedly instantaneous medium such as the Internet, things can take as long as they sometimes do to get rolling.Case in point: The Liberal Avenger and I wrote our little "ghost blogging" series just over four months ago, and, as an indirect result of Mithras' "probably not written by her", it's just now starting to get the notice of indignant righties. Like some others, I'm not altogether happy with some of his verbiage. Regular readers (thanks guys!) know that I have gone on record as being against the all-too-common ad hominem attacks, not just because they're wrong but because they give the righties permission to be outraged rather than to respond. (I even got in trouble with Atriots/Eschatonians over it, which nobody enjoys.)"Ghost Blogging" was not an ad hominem attack. It was a confidentially sourced series written by nonjournalists (me, and the Liberal Avenger) reporting facts. It was not embarked upon because she is a woman, or a minority, or a minority woman, as some commenters at Volokh, Alas, a Blog, and probably others, would have it. It is true that I remarked upon the ramifications of a minority woman serving as at least a partial front for xenophobic opinions held by her white husband. But I also said "Don't misunderstand; Michelle is clearly very capable - she wouldn't be able to handle the media as well as she does if she weren't - and certainly is responsible for much of what is written in her name."Here's a reprint of a comment I wrote defending myself at Volokh:Well, I didn't come here to get into a rehash of a 4-month-old short post series, but perhaps I misspoke if I led you to believe I was talking about 'secret information.' What I really meant was sources who prefer not to be identified who informed me about, for example, her post of Sept. 8th which was posted while she was on a plane to Berkeley for a speech; pointed out that she posted within minutes of another talk; that "Michelle's" most in-depth posts are often about health care, Jesse's particular area of professional experience; that Jesse has at least once defended something "Michelle" wrote by writing a defensive e-mail to a critic - without her knowledge; that, yes, the royal we has been problematic; that her output is amazing for someone who has repeatedly claimed that she has no help whatsoever; what the topic of her next book would be four months before it was announced; that "Jesse Malkin is the driving force behind Michelle. He is a control freak. Michelle is no innocent victim either. She chose to be with the guy, and apparently they have been successful as this wingnut juggernaut. She needs him as much as he needs her"...all of which were mentioned in my posts - and the Liberal Avenger's - of the time.This surely sounds defensive, and it probably is. But whatever. Unlike (the) Malkin(s), I don't generally consider myself part of some "new media." I also am not trained, nor do I plan to be, in the proper crediting and/or protocol regarding confidential sources.That's okay, though, because I'm pretty sure I could open my entire e-mail account for examination and it still wouldn't end this discussion. Hope you all come and visit my blog again.----------------------[Bloggers! Please add a link to this post to your site. It infuriates a certain pair of rightwing blogosphere nutjobs...] [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] to generate that kind of crap?&#8221; This was the question Pepper asked in the comments for Auguste&#8217;s Ghost Blogging post here. Pepper was, of course, talking about Michelle and Jesse Malkin&#8217;s talking-point turd-polisherof a blog.*The answer is, apparently, yes. Yes, according to the independent sources Auguste had in his Rolodex before &#8220;Ghost Blogging&#8221; was posted and yes again, according to the new sources who have come forward since.According to one source:Jesse Malkin is the driving force behind Michelle. He is a control freak. Michelle is no innocent victim either. She chose to be with the guy, and apparently they have been successful as this wingnut juggernaut. She needs him as much as he needs her.It&#8217;s a match made in heaven, perhaps. Or at Oberlin.*As opposed to my talking-point turd-polisher of a blog.III. So What Does it Matter? - AugusteThe most common question asked of me following this post goes a little something like this:Okay, let&#8217;s say you&#8217;re right. What difference does it make?That&#8217;s a good question. First of all, as noted in this post by LA, I am right, as has been confirmed by sources who have come forward since the original post. I was cagy about some of the evidence I had for multiple reasons, none of which I&#8217;ll go into here.Second, I am not attempting to destroy Michelle&#8217;s career, nor am I foolish or crazy enough to believe that I could even if I wanted to. Worse has been done than anything I&#8217;m suggesting of Michelle by many people. That said, I&#8217;d like to suggest a few reasons why this might matter, if only a little.Disclosure: The Liberal Avenger and I had many discussions about this story prior to its publication, and some of these ideas more likely belong to him - he&#8217;s already written about some of them in his comments section, as well.It&#8217;s the lying. As I noted in my initial post, Michelle has gone out of her way to promote the idea that she is the sole proprieter of her blog. Perhaps her resolve slipped in recent days, for as LBC noted, the new Immigration Blog lists simply &#8220;Malkin&#8221; as a byline. It just seems that she&#8217;s guilty of protesting too much in, without prompting, taking full credit for &#8220;her&#8221; output. Maybe it&#8217;s just another right-wing lie, or maybe it&#8217;s more significant.It&#8217;s the scandal.Michelle has always been very hot on the idea that blogs are home to better reporting than the mainstream media. Well, one of Rick Bragg&#8217;s biggest transgressions was allowing others to write stories under his byline. If Michelle were to admit that &#8220;Michelle Malkin&#8221; is a generic byline for both herself and Jesse, then fine. Except, of course&#8230;It&#8217;s the persona.A quick glance through Technorati reveals, if one didn&#8217;t know already, that Michelle is something of a right-wing darling. She&#8217;s not the only one, on either side, either - this is the age of celebrity journalism. She&#8217;s bright, photogenic, and talented, and, in my opinion, finds a much more forgiving audience because of it. While, as I noted in my original post and continue to state, I have no doubt that she is responsible for much of what appears under her name, the introduction of Jesse into the equation does tend to confuse the issue. This is not to say that opinions are more or less valid coming from a minority female than a white male, or vice versa, although I am sure that is what I will be accused of saying. Rather, it is a statement of fact that the public, en masse, often reacts this way. It seems more than possible that Jesse Malkin, a white male, producing anti-immigrant, racially focused writings, would only ever be a face in the crowd.It&#8217;s the questions it raises. As LA notes:Has &#8220;Michelle&#8221; ever blogged or written about topics related to what Jesse was working on for the government at the think tank while Jesse was still connected with the think tank in any way?It&#8217;s none of the above. At the bottom of all of this is, honestly, &#8220;I report - you decide.&#8221; As I noted on LA&#8217;s comments thread:I chose a topic for a blog&#8230;My topic happens to be one particular writer.Then I realized my topic is actually two particular writers, so I wrote that.Michelle/Jesse love, love, love the idea of bloggers replacing the MSM as the source of investigative reporting. This is just playing by their rules.IV. Me,me,me - Auguste (8/05 semi-followup)Far-right affirmative action hire who is so bigoted she&#8217;d arrest herself for trying to cross a border. Famously published a book praising internment of Japanese-Americans that was (a) incoherent and (b) probably not written by her. If she didn&#8217;t have tits, she&#8217;d be stuck writing at <a href="http://Townhall.com" title="http://Townhall.com">Townhall.com</a>.Hoo-doggie. I&#8217;m going to go out on a limb and say that Mithras didn&#8217;t quite expect the backlash he got from this post (not to say he&#8217;s upset by it.) Interestingly, it wasn&#8217;t until just this minute that I even realized that his original post was from a week ago today. Funny how, in a supposedly instantaneous medium such as the Internet, things can take as long as they sometimes do to get rolling.Case in point: The Liberal Avenger and I wrote our little &#8220;ghost blogging&#8221; series just over four months ago, and, as an indirect result of Mithras&#8217; &#8220;probably not written by her&#8221;, it&#8217;s just now starting to get the notice of indignant righties. Like some others, I&#8217;m not altogether happy with some of his verbiage. Regular readers (thanks guys!) know that I have gone on record as being against the all-too-common ad hominem attacks, not just because they&#8217;re wrong but because they give the righties permission to be outraged rather than to respond. (I even got in trouble with Atriots/Eschatonians over it, which nobody enjoys.)&#8221;Ghost Blogging&#8221; was not an ad hominem attack. It was a confidentially sourced series written by nonjournalists (me, and the Liberal Avenger) reporting facts. It was not embarked upon because she is a woman, or a minority, or a minority woman, as some commenters at Volokh, Alas, a Blog, and probably others, would have it. It is true that I remarked upon the ramifications of a minority woman serving as at least a partial front for xenophobic opinions held by her white husband. But I also said &#8220;Don&#8217;t misunderstand; Michelle is clearly very capable - she wouldn&#8217;t be able to handle the media as well as she does if she weren&#8217;t - and certainly is responsible for much of what is written in her name.&#8221;Here&#8217;s a reprint of a comment I wrote defending myself at Volokh:Well, I didn&#8217;t come here to get into a rehash of a 4-month-old short post series, but perhaps I misspoke if I led you to believe I was talking about &#8217;secret information.&#8217; What I really meant was sources who prefer not to be identified who informed me about, for example, her post of Sept. 8th which was posted while she was on a plane to Berkeley for a speech; pointed out that she posted within minutes of another talk; that &#8220;Michelle&#8217;s&#8221; most in-depth posts are often about health care, Jesse&#8217;s particular area of professional experience; that Jesse has at least once defended something &#8220;Michelle&#8221; wrote by writing a defensive e-mail to a critic - without her knowledge; that, yes, the royal we has been problematic; that her output is amazing for someone who has repeatedly claimed that she has no help whatsoever; what the topic of her next book would be four months before it was announced; that &#8220;Jesse Malkin is the driving force behind Michelle. He is a control freak. Michelle is no innocent victim either. She chose to be with the guy, and apparently they have been successful as this wingnut juggernaut. She needs him as much as he needs her&#8221;&#8230;all of which were mentioned in my posts - and the Liberal Avenger&#8217;s - of the time.This surely sounds defensive, and it probably is. But whatever. Unlike (the) Malkin(s), I don&#8217;t generally consider myself part of some &#8220;new media.&#8221; I also am not trained, nor do I plan to be, in the proper crediting and/or protocol regarding confidential sources.That&#8217;s okay, though, because I&#8217;m pretty sure I could open my entire e-mail account for examination and it still wouldn&#8217;t end this discussion. Hope you all come and visit my blog again.&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-[Bloggers! Please add a link to this post to your site. It infuriates a certain pair of rightwing blogosphere nutjobs...] [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: alsis39</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-56503</link>
		<dc:creator>alsis39</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Aug 2005 05:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-56503</guid>
		<description>[sarcasm:]

Well, I guess that puts my worries to bed once and for all.  Thanks, S !

[/sarcasm]

Radfem, they just hated Ann cuz' she's beautiful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[sarcasm:]</p>
<p>Well, I guess that puts my worries to bed once and for all.  Thanks, S !</p>
<p>[/sarcasm]</p>
<p>Radfem, they just hated Ann cuz&#8217; she&#8217;s beautiful.</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian Holsclaw</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-56403</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian Holsclaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-56403</guid>
		<description>"What I don't get is the idea that somehow she'd be the only Asian in the entire U.S. to have been good enough to compete at the top tier of a White-male-dominated profession. "

Connie Chung does fairly well.  I know that I don't even watch TV news.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What I don&#8217;t get is the idea that somehow she&#8217;d be the only Asian in the entire U.S. to have been good enough to compete at the top tier of a White-male-dominated profession. &#8221;</p>
<p>Connie Chung does fairly well.  I know that I don&#8217;t even watch TV news.</p>
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		<title>By: No Tickling!</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-56382</link>
		<dc:creator>No Tickling!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-56382</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Under the Rock&lt;/strong&gt;

Granted, Katherine Harris is making her femininity an issue when she stands at a Â¾ view to the camera and thrusts her breasts out, and it's great to examine how she's using it and what kind of an atavistic role</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Under the Rock</strong></p>
<p>Granted, Katherine Harris is making her femininity an issue when she stands at a Â¾ view to the camera and thrusts her breasts out, and it&#8217;s great to examine how she&#8217;s using it and what kind of an atavistic role</p>
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		<title>By: Radfem</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-56136</link>
		<dc:creator>Radfem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-56136</guid>
		<description>alsis, dooooon't take away the clooosest thing our newspaper has to a leeeefist nooooow! 

**the only positive thing was that they did "recycle" out Ann Coulter**</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>alsis, dooooon&#8217;t take away the clooosest thing our newspaper has to a leeeefist nooooow! </p>
<p>**the only positive thing was that they did &#8220;recycle&#8221; out Ann Coulter**</p>
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		<title>By: alsis39</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-56044</link>
		<dc:creator>alsis39</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-56044</guid>
		<description>Ripley, I know that &lt;i&gt;No Name&lt;/i&gt; was included in the collection.  Not sure whether it's the one where I saw that particular comment, however.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ripley, I know that <i>No Name</i> was included in the collection.  Not sure whether it&#8217;s the one where I saw that particular comment, however.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Ripley</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55978</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Ripley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2005 03:28:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55978</guid>
		<description>The James Baldwin book is probably &lt;i&gt;No Name in the Street&lt;/i&gt;.  A classic, underrated in part because it was radical enough to make liberals rather uncomfortable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The James Baldwin book is probably <i>No Name in the Street</i>.  A classic, underrated in part because it was radical enough to make liberals rather uncomfortable.</p>
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		<title>By: alsis39</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55958</link>
		<dc:creator>alsis39</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2005 01:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55958</guid>
		<description>Maureen Dowd is a Lefty in the same way that Tony Roma's[tm] is a BBQ shack. :p</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maureen Dowd is a Lefty in the same way that Tony Roma&#8217;s[tm] is a BBQ shack. :p</p>
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		<title>By: Radfem</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55957</link>
		<dc:creator>Radfem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2005 01:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55957</guid>
		<description>A big Doh!, too, because I looked up Malkin and realized after seeing her picture that she's one of the "new wave" columnists in our daily newspaper(which has got to be one of the most right-wing dailies in the country right now) op-ed section which I've been boycotting since the most leftist columnist who survived the purge(goodbye Scheer, Goodman and Page), was Maureen Dowd....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A big Doh!, too, because I looked up Malkin and realized after seeing her picture that she&#8217;s one of the &#8220;new wave&#8221; columnists in our daily newspaper(which has got to be one of the most right-wing dailies in the country right now) op-ed section which I&#8217;ve been boycotting since the most leftist columnist who survived the purge(goodbye Scheer, Goodman and Page), was Maureen Dowd&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Radfem</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55956</link>
		<dc:creator>Radfem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2005 01:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55956</guid>
		<description>"Democrats run the newsrooms." 

No, they don't. Although one oft-quoted study found that print journalists are more likely to pick opinions on various issues more aligned with liberal thought, the publishers who own most of the publications they right for are political conversatives. And if you don't think that higher management and publishers influence content of a news reporters writing, then you haven't worked in journalism, or haven't very long. 

There's glass ceilings in journalism like anything else for men of color and women, including Asian-American women. Conservative, Liberal, racial discrimination still exists in the workplace. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Democrats run the newsrooms.&#8221; </p>
<p>No, they don&#8217;t. Although one oft-quoted study found that print journalists are more likely to pick opinions on various issues more aligned with liberal thought, the publishers who own most of the publications they right for are political conversatives. And if you don&#8217;t think that higher management and publishers influence content of a news reporters writing, then you haven&#8217;t worked in journalism, or haven&#8217;t very long. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s glass ceilings in journalism like anything else for men of color and women, including Asian-American women. Conservative, Liberal, racial discrimination still exists in the workplace.</p>
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		<title>By: alsis39</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55950</link>
		<dc:creator>alsis39</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2005 00:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55950</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The "work hard and go to college" structure?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

[rolleyes]

Forget it, Robert.  I don't know why I even bothered to assume that you could for once conduct an exchange without playing your usual games of disingenuous bait-and-switch.  But we're not here for genuine exchange, of course.  We're here so you can have something to poke with a stick for your own amusement.   What was I thinking ?

Show's over, Folks.  Move along.  Nothing to see, etc...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The &#8220;work hard and go to college&#8221; structure?</p></blockquote>
<p>[rolleyes]</p>
<p>Forget it, Robert.  I don&#8217;t know why I even bothered to assume that you could for once conduct an exchange without playing your usual games of disingenuous bait-and-switch.  But we&#8217;re not here for genuine exchange, of course.  We&#8217;re here so you can have something to poke with a stick for your own amusement.   What was I thinking ?</p>
<p>Show&#8217;s over, Folks.  Move along.  Nothing to see, etc&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55949</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2005 00:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55949</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;you're contradicting your own point by simultaneously describing the structure that helped put Malkin in the public eye&lt;/i&gt;

The "work hard and go to college" structure?  

As for why there aren't many top-tier Asian journalists, beats me.  Democrats run the newsrooms; maybe they hate Asians.  On my side of the ideological fence, there doesn't appear to be any particular bias against them; Ramesh Ponnuru, Malkin, Dinesh D'Souza, and so forth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>you&#8217;re contradicting your own point by simultaneously describing the structure that helped put Malkin in the public eye</i></p>
<p>The &#8220;work hard and go to college&#8221; structure?  </p>
<p>As for why there aren&#8217;t many top-tier Asian journalists, beats me.  Democrats run the newsrooms; maybe they hate Asians.  On my side of the ideological fence, there doesn&#8217;t appear to be any particular bias against them; Ramesh Ponnuru, Malkin, Dinesh D&#8217;Souza, and so forth.</p>
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		<title>By: alsis39</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55942</link>
		<dc:creator>alsis39</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2005 23:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55942</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;What "race" do you believe Malkin to be the sole exemplar of?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Robert, this thread is as close to us having a real discussion as I can recall in the entire history of this blog.  Please don't fuck it up by being willfully dense.  You've read the thread.  Don't be obtuse.  It just misdirects the conversation.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Who "elevated" her? From what I can see, she worked hard in high school to get the credentials that won her a place at a prestigious college. She worked hard at that college which bought her the chops to get a job at two metropolitan papers. She worked hard at the papers, which won her an audience in the community and the respect of her peers. That opened the door for her to get in at a prestigious think tank, where pundit-wannabes often spend a year or so burnishing their credentials. She did all of this while also being a wife and mother. (Well, not the high school and college part.)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That's all well and good.  What I don't get is the idea that somehow she'd be the only Asian in the entire U.S. to have been good enough to compete at the top tier of a White-male-dominated profession.  I don't consider that a Lefty "fetish," since you'll find similar tokenism throughout the political world in one form or another.  

Robert, you can try to dismiss what I'm asking by trotting out terms like "cabal" and "conspiracy," but you're contradicting your own point by simultaneously describing the structure that helped put Malkin in the public eye and then denying it exists.  Honestly, that's just weird.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>What &#8220;race&#8221; do you believe Malkin to be the sole exemplar of?</p></blockquote>
<p>Robert, this thread is as close to us having a real discussion as I can recall in the entire history of this blog.  Please don&#8217;t fuck it up by being willfully dense.  You&#8217;ve read the thread.  Don&#8217;t be obtuse.  It just misdirects the conversation.</p>
<blockquote><p>Who &#8220;elevated&#8221; her? From what I can see, she worked hard in high school to get the credentials that won her a place at a prestigious college. She worked hard at that college which bought her the chops to get a job at two metropolitan papers. She worked hard at the papers, which won her an audience in the community and the respect of her peers. That opened the door for her to get in at a prestigious think tank, where pundit-wannabes often spend a year or so burnishing their credentials. She did all of this while also being a wife and mother. (Well, not the high school and college part.)</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s all well and good.  What I don&#8217;t get is the idea that somehow she&#8217;d be the only Asian in the entire U.S. to have been good enough to compete at the top tier of a White-male-dominated profession.  I don&#8217;t consider that a Lefty &#8220;fetish,&#8221; since you&#8217;ll find similar tokenism throughout the political world in one form or another.  </p>
<p>Robert, you can try to dismiss what I&#8217;m asking by trotting out terms like &#8220;cabal&#8221; and &#8220;conspiracy,&#8221; but you&#8217;re contradicting your own point by simultaneously describing the structure that helped put Malkin in the public eye and then denying it exists.  Honestly, that&#8217;s just weird.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55940</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2005 23:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55940</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It's kind of tough, to my mind, to avoid charges of tokenism when you elevate one member amongst millions of a single race to the top tier of your profession.&lt;/i&gt;

What "race" do you believe Malkin to be the sole exemplar of?

Who "elevated" her?  From what I can see, she worked hard in high school to get the credentials that won her a place at a prestigious college.  She worked hard at that college which bought her the chops to get a  job at two metropolitan papers. She worked hard at the papers, which won her an audience in the community and the respect of her peers.  That opened the door for her to get in at a prestigious think tank, where pundit-wannabes often spend a year or so burnishing their credentials.  She did all of this while also being a wife and mother.  (Well, not the high school and college part.)

She spent 15 years becoming an overnight success.  I don't see a whole lot of elevating.  Perhaps you do.

&lt;i&gt;Did Malkin "win" as one wins a lottery ticket or did she "win" as one wins a marathon ? Who passed out the awards ? And if the awarders are largely White men, why should they get to be the only ones to bandy about terms like racism when it comes to their opponents ?&lt;/i&gt;

She "won" by writing stuff that people want to read, that is informative, thought-provoking, or what have you. 

The bizarre worldview where a cabal of white men decide who's going to be successful had a glimmer of truth, in the days when citizen media meant whatever the paperboy chose to yell.  Michelle Malkin got 80,000 daily readers pretty much the minute she opened her blog. The Ivory Tower Of Power Conspiracy doesn't have that many members.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It&#8217;s kind of tough, to my mind, to avoid charges of tokenism when you elevate one member amongst millions of a single race to the top tier of your profession.</i></p>
<p>What &#8220;race&#8221; do you believe Malkin to be the sole exemplar of?</p>
<p>Who &#8220;elevated&#8221; her?  From what I can see, she worked hard in high school to get the credentials that won her a place at a prestigious college.  She worked hard at that college which bought her the chops to get a  job at two metropolitan papers. She worked hard at the papers, which won her an audience in the community and the respect of her peers.  That opened the door for her to get in at a prestigious think tank, where pundit-wannabes often spend a year or so burnishing their credentials.  She did all of this while also being a wife and mother.  (Well, not the high school and college part.)</p>
<p>She spent 15 years becoming an overnight success.  I don&#8217;t see a whole lot of elevating.  Perhaps you do.</p>
<p><i>Did Malkin &#8220;win&#8221; as one wins a lottery ticket or did she &#8220;win&#8221; as one wins a marathon ? Who passed out the awards ? And if the awarders are largely White men, why should they get to be the only ones to bandy about terms like racism when it comes to their opponents ?</i></p>
<p>She &#8220;won&#8221; by writing stuff that people want to read, that is informative, thought-provoking, or what have you. </p>
<p>The bizarre worldview where a cabal of white men decide who&#8217;s going to be successful had a glimmer of truth, in the days when citizen media meant whatever the paperboy chose to yell.  Michelle Malkin got 80,000 daily readers pretty much the minute she opened her blog. The Ivory Tower Of Power Conspiracy doesn&#8217;t have that many members.</p>
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		<title>By: alsis39</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55939</link>
		<dc:creator>alsis39</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2005 23:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55939</guid>
		<description>Neither did Robert.  I just assumed he meant the audiences for shows, political writings, and blogs.  But those audiences don't just wander out into some idealogical equivalent of a highly diverse, untrafficked ecosystem to find everything in that forrest to be  equally visible and accessable, do they ?

Sebastian, are there not foundations that exclusively cultivate conservative voices ?  Think tanks ?  Politicians ?  Publishers ?  Blogs ?  As I tried to say a couple of times before, politics isn't all that different from show biz in the sense that it's marketed like a product.  Someone, or several someones, are doing the marketing and laying out the money for it, in hopes of getting both tangible and intangible returns.  Despite Robert's jokes, that's not a wild-eyed conspiracy theory.  It's the market.  You know, the one that conservatives so often talk about as the be-all and end-all of human existence.  The one that you say is inherently "free" and that I say is exactly the opposite of "free."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neither did Robert.  I just assumed he meant the audiences for shows, political writings, and blogs.  But those audiences don&#8217;t just wander out into some idealogical equivalent of a highly diverse, untrafficked ecosystem to find everything in that forrest to be  equally visible and accessable, do they ?</p>
<p>Sebastian, are there not foundations that exclusively cultivate conservative voices ?  Think tanks ?  Politicians ?  Publishers ?  Blogs ?  As I tried to say a couple of times before, politics isn&#8217;t all that different from show biz in the sense that it&#8217;s marketed like a product.  Someone, or several someones, are doing the marketing and laying out the money for it, in hopes of getting both tangible and intangible returns.  Despite Robert&#8217;s jokes, that&#8217;s not a wild-eyed conspiracy theory.  It&#8217;s the market.  You know, the one that conservatives so often talk about as the be-all and end-all of human existence.  The one that you say is inherently &#8220;free&#8221; and that I say is exactly the opposite of &#8220;free.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian Holsclaw</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55935</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian Holsclaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2005 23:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55935</guid>
		<description>" don't see why conservatives should have it both ways, Robert. It's kind of tough, to my mind, to avoid charges of tokenism when you elevate one member amongst millions of a single race to the top tier of your profession."

The problem is you use 'elevate' but do not identify who you believe is doing the 'elevating'.  Who are these 'conservatives' who want to have it both ways.  We need to names here.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; don&#8217;t see why conservatives should have it both ways, Robert. It&#8217;s kind of tough, to my mind, to avoid charges of tokenism when you elevate one member amongst millions of a single race to the top tier of your profession.&#8221;</p>
<p>The problem is you use &#8216;elevate&#8217; but do not identify who you believe is doing the &#8216;elevating&#8217;.  Who are these &#8216;conservatives&#8217; who want to have it both ways.  We need to names here.  :)</p>
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		<title>By: alsis39</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55931</link>
		<dc:creator>alsis39</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2005 23:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55931</guid>
		<description>I don't see why conservatives should have it both ways, Robert.  It's kind of tough, to my mind, to avoid charges of tokenism when you elevate one member amongst millions of a single race to the top tier of your profession.  It may not be your intent to have that one person as a universal spokesperson, but it ends up being an easy trap to fall into.  

&lt;blockquote&gt;As many as win themselves an audience.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I'm confused.  Did Malkin "win" as one wins a lottery ticket or did she "win" as one wins a marathon ?  Who passed out the awards ?  And if the awarders are largely White men, why should they get to be the only ones to bandy about terms like racism when it comes to their opponents ?

Hey, enjoy your stand-up act, but I was actually quite serious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see why conservatives should have it both ways, Robert.  It&#8217;s kind of tough, to my mind, to avoid charges of tokenism when you elevate one member amongst millions of a single race to the top tier of your profession.  It may not be your intent to have that one person as a universal spokesperson, but it ends up being an easy trap to fall into.  </p>
<blockquote><p>As many as win themselves an audience.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m confused.  Did Malkin &#8220;win&#8221; as one wins a lottery ticket or did she &#8220;win&#8221; as one wins a marathon ?  Who passed out the awards ?  And if the awarders are largely White men, why should they get to be the only ones to bandy about terms like racism when it comes to their opponents ?</p>
<p>Hey, enjoy your stand-up act, but I was actually quite serious.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55924</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2005 22:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55924</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Frankly, if conservatives are sincere about not wanting Asian voices to be perceived as some kind of monolith...&lt;/i&gt;

Conservatives, generally, don't care about the question.  Worrying about whether the People's Committee has the proper number of ambidextrous Wiccan socialist lesbians of color is a leftist fetish.  (Rightist fetishes involve Ann Coulter, a copy of Tip O'Neill's book about black dysfunction in the inner city, and creamy brown gravy.  Lots and lots of warm, sensuous gravy.)

&lt;i&gt;If there's room at the top for all those White guys, isn't there also room for more than one Asian ?&lt;/i&gt;

As many as win themselves an audience.  Or, &lt;i&gt;pace&lt;/i&gt; Amanda, as many as we choose to grant audiences to.  (I know I have a spare audience around here somewhere; maybe if you get around to starting that blog and promise to write about how feminism is eeeevil, I'll assign it to you.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Frankly, if conservatives are sincere about not wanting Asian voices to be perceived as some kind of monolith&#8230;</i></p>
<p>Conservatives, generally, don&#8217;t care about the question.  Worrying about whether the People&#8217;s Committee has the proper number of ambidextrous Wiccan socialist lesbians of color is a leftist fetish.  (Rightist fetishes involve Ann Coulter, a copy of Tip O&#8217;Neill&#8217;s book about black dysfunction in the inner city, and creamy brown gravy.  Lots and lots of warm, sensuous gravy.)</p>
<p><i>If there&#8217;s room at the top for all those White guys, isn&#8217;t there also room for more than one Asian ?</i></p>
<p>As many as win themselves an audience.  Or, <i>pace</i> Amanda, as many as we choose to grant audiences to.  (I know I have a spare audience around here somewhere; maybe if you get around to starting that blog and promise to write about how feminism is eeeevil, I&#8217;ll assign it to you.)</p>
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		<title>By: alsis39</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55919</link>
		<dc:creator>alsis39</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2005 22:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55919</guid>
		<description>I am still intrigued with the question of whether Malkin is the token Asian in Conservative-land.  Frankly, if conservatives are sincere about not wanting Asian voices to be perceived as some kind of monolith, with liberal (or liberal-sympathetic) voices as the supposed default, they ought to be asking themselves that, too.  If there's room at the top for all those White guys, isn't there also room for more than one Asian ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am still intrigued with the question of whether Malkin is the token Asian in Conservative-land.  Frankly, if conservatives are sincere about not wanting Asian voices to be perceived as some kind of monolith, with liberal (or liberal-sympathetic) voices as the supposed default, they ought to be asking themselves that, too.  If there&#8217;s room at the top for all those White guys, isn&#8217;t there also room for more than one Asian ?</p>
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		<title>By: BritGirlSF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55914</link>
		<dc:creator>BritGirlSF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2005 21:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/08/07/what-do-her-tits-have-to-do-with-anything/#comment-55914</guid>
		<description>Nolo, your point was perfectly clear to everyone except Robert, and entirely worth making in order to demonstrate the absurdity of viewing "Asian" as a homogenous identity. Frankly in many ways the Phillipines has more shared history and cultural links with Spain than it does with, for example, Japan, just to demonstrate how silly it is to view Asia as some kind of monolithic entity. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nolo, your point was perfectly clear to everyone except Robert, and entirely worth making in order to demonstrate the absurdity of viewing &#8220;Asian&#8221; as a homogenous identity. Frankly in many ways the Phillipines has more shared history and cultural links with Spain than it does with, for example, Japan, just to demonstrate how silly it is to view Asia as some kind of monolithic entity.</p>
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