My children are 11, 7, and the baby will be 6 in another couple of months. The eldest two are girls and the youngest is a boy. They do on occasion ask for gendered toys, but the odd thing is my daughters are more likely to ask for Bionicle than my son. The girls don’t care much for Barbies, but they do have some dolls, and all the kids enjoyed playing with them when they were younger.

Legos are wonderful and we have quite a few of those for the kids, but mostly my children are into music, bikes, and books.

I think it’s both upbringing and outside experiences - which includes the larger culture. Some people are also more sensitive to social influences than others.

I know that my parents raised me much the same way you describe yourself as being raised, but because of things both unrelated to my gender (fairly ill as a young child - possibly my inherent personality as well) and related to my gender and how society tends to treat me because of it, I’m probably more fearful and cautious than you are.

I also know, though, that I’m still the one insisting to my female peers that it really isn’t that big of a deal for me to walk a few blocks alone at night.

Just out of curiousity - how old are your kids and have they ever asked for gendered products? (barbie, bionicle, etc?)

I’m not sure how to fix the problem on a large scale, but I’m doing it in my own small way. I’m raising my daughters to be confident and assertive, and my son to be respectful of everyone. We don’t have boys toys or girls toys…come to think of it we don’t have that many toys at all really. Mostly we have balls, board games, and books. Things that require cooperation, communication, and sharing. Education through play time. I wonder if my contribution will help in the long run though.

I was fortunate that my parents taught my sisters and me to be assertive and self-confident, and it appears that your parents have done the same with you. But that is not the case for many women, and I believe that for them, it is an ongoing process to go beyond the messages of caution and deference that they have heard all their lives. And that may be the other part of what you’re getting from some of the posts on this blog - many of us are working out how best to fit feminism into our presents and our pasts by sharing what it has been like for us.

Having said that, I was not socialized to be afraid of rape. My father taught me to defend myself from the bullies in the school (mostly girls). We discussed that my body was my property and I was the one that said yea or nay to any sex. But, I’m not afraid of dark parking lots. I travel lots by myself, I walk across the campus alone at night. I’m not afraid of being raped in those situations. I do not however drive my car through areas where I know that there is known drug and or gang activity. Not for fear of being raped, but the fear of being carjacked.

Am I so alone in this feeling of strength and power? Because reading these posts and threads, I get the impression that women all across the country are hiding in closets and only going out in groups. I don’t see that here where I live. I live in a medium sized city in Louisiana with a fairly high crime rate.

An old Italian nun is interviewed about WWII, and she talks about how one army after another - German, Italian, American - swept through the countryside where the convent was located: “and then-a the Germans-a come and they rape-a all of the nuns, except-a Sister Mathilda. Then-a the Germans, they retreat, and then the Americans come, and they rape-a all the nuns, except-a Sister Mathilda. And then…” etc., etc., etc. Interviewer: “That’s incredible. All these different armies - why didn’t they rape Sister Mathilda?” Nun: “Sister Mathilda doesn’t like-a that sort of thing.”

Is this any funnier or more defensible than the “raped twice” joke?

Including me? Really? I never posted on either of the two previous threads discussing Nick Kiddle’s experience.

I assume you are actually referring to the post about McDonald’s. Can you explain to me what I said that was disparaging about the victim? My point was that the entire system had apparently convinced her that she had no choice but to submit, either because authority must be submitted to, or because McDonald’s would fire her if she didn’t. As long as we allow the system to convince people of this, we are making it easier for people to victimize other people.

But, since you either missed it the first time or chose to ignore it, I’m going to reiterate my point: Rape cannot be seen as a “real” crime if we don’t understand what rape really is in the first place.

This is a distortion. The issue being discussed on Nick’s personal story is whether or not her behavior should be considered dangerous and foolish and whether or not it should be discouraged. It had nothing to do with whether or not what the man was trying to do should be considered a crime; everyone seemed to agree that it should.

You may argue that those who disparaged Nick’s behavior were blaming the victim or that their criticisms were unwarranted, but do not accuse them of making arguments that they were not making.

I’m just going on the description here, though. Timing, context and delivery may argue for a different meaning.

Where was the humor?

Stranger rape, maybe (although the turnout on the thread with Nick’s personal story, as well as the continuing prevalence to blame the victim in court cases despite it being illegal, speaks otherwise).

The most common rapes, however, are not taken nearly as seriously as they should be. Acquaintance rape, for instance.. Or spousal/date rape. Heck, the very idea of rape is not taken seriously, seeing as it’s common to throw around the word “rape” as if it’s an appropriate substitution for other words (ex. “oh, man, I just got raped by Pikachu in Smash Bros!”).

Boys aren’t taught to hear it when girls say “no”. Girls are taught to fear going anywhere alone - walking, driving, etc. It’s common to slut shame, or to ask what a woman was wearing if she got assaulted, or to bring up her personal history - as if consenting to sex in one situation means that she consents to it in all situations.

Rape cannot be seen as a “real” crime if we don’t understand what rape really is in the first place.

Brett - On the contrary. Most jokes are a way of belittling the “butt” of the joke, whether it’s about Aggies, lawyers - or women. So, the unpoken assumption is that it’s “okay” to tell a joke about Aggies because “everyone knows” they’re stupid. Similarly, it’s “okay” to make lawyer jokes because “everyone knows” that they’re scum-sucking bottom feeders. (Apologies to any Aggies or lawyers reading this. If you can’t tell, I don’t approve of these jokes.)

By this thinking, it’s “okay” to tell jokes about women being raped because “everyone knows” that they “really want it” or that it’s “no big deal” or there’s “nothing we can do about it”. And thus, tacit approval for regarding women as “less” and rape as “insignificant” is perpetuated.

Words *matter*. If they didn’t, African-Americans wouldn’t object to being called “nigger”, or whites to being called “honky”. Words convey our beliefs, and teach the next generation. In the guise of jokes, the wrong words perpetuate sterotypes that should be abolished, and teach the children to continue the culture - in this case, that it’s “okay to rape”. Just - no.