No matter what some people might think, it is totally worth coming to work each day when just one child is happy to see me!!

No offense taken. See my coming-out post here.

btw, jes - it’s nice to see you let your radfem hair down outside of ObWi (assuming your hair is long enough to ‘let down’, of course. )
:-)

Jaketk, that’s such a twisted distortion of what I said that I can’t say I like you at all - nor can I respect you, which to my mind is more important. I pointed out the overwhelming statistics: the vast majority of rapists are men.

You owe me an apology for attacking me for calling Gwallan on his crap.

Oh no, by all means, please keep doing what you are doing. It’s not like by ignoring male victims and female perps that abuse would actually continue or anything. I would not want you to lower your standards to deal with male victi”“excuse me, potential sex offenders. Please leave all male “victims” to groups like Male Survivor.

Why did you put the word victims in scare-quotes? Explain it to me, please. Are you saying that you don’t think a 13 year old boy raped by a 40-something woman (which is where your link led) is a victim?

Did you even read the moderation policies, Jaketk?

I’m also appalled by your “logic,” here. Are you saying Jesu, or anyone else, is obligated to focus on male victims? What about people who focus on male victims - are they obligated to focus on female victims? Can you show me a single example of when you’ve criticized someone on SYG for talking about male but not female victims?

There’s nothing wrong with Jesu deciding to focus his attentions on female victims. Nor is there anything wrong with you deciding to focus your attention on male victims. The world’s a big place with a lot of problems; it is unreasonable to expect everyone to focus on every problem at once. To the contrary, I think there’s an obvious benefit to people choosing to specialize.

Simply put, you just said a murder was just committed. You don’t know who the victim was. You don’t have the body.In fact, you can’t even prove the person was murdered. But, you DO know who did it. Does that honestly make sense to you?

The overwhelming majority of social science evidence and criminology data agrees with Jesu: the vast, overwhelming majority of rapists are male. Gwallan has offered nothing except wild speculation to suggest that things might be otherwise.

Can I absolutely prove that every bit of data on rape that exists isn’t wrong by such a massive scale as to render the single most certain finding wrong? No, I can’t absolutely prove it. I also can’t absolutely prove there aren’t blue elephant gnomes who live in the center of the Earth creating the magnetic field by pedeling on stationary bikes, who use the advanced magic contained in their trunks to remain undetected.

There is always room for doubt, in theory. But in some cases the doubt is so tiny, and the evidence so overwhelming, that worrying about the doubt seems pointless. The question of if men perpetuate the majority of rapes is such a case.

He never mentioned ANY specifics about his rape outside of being eight years old, so why are you attacking him for it?

Because he accused Jesu of calling him a liar. He attacked Jesu first, on this issue; and since even you admit Jesu had no possible way of knowing the specifics, Jesu quite understandably felt this was unfair.

For instance, let’s say Joe’s father is a doctor, but Joe hasn’t told anyone this fact. Here’s how the dialog on this thread just went:

SALLY: I don’t know anyone whose father is a doctor.

JOE: So you’re calling me a liar.

SALLY: Joe, in this entire thread, you’ve never once said your father is a doctor. Newsflash: Not everything is about you.

JAKE: Sally, you owe Joe an apology for attacking him for speaking about his father being a doctor.

First of all, it’s obvlous that it was unfair for Joe to leap to the conclusion that Sally was calling him a liar, or that Sally was even talking about him at all.

Secondly, it’s even more unfair for Jake to claim that Sally criticized Joe just because Joe said his dad is a doc. That’s NOT what Sally criticized Joe for. Joe was criticized for unfairly expecting Sally to know what Joe hasn’t said, and for taking something as a personal insult that clearly was no such thing.

Back to this reality (probably you’ve seen through my cunning code by now anyway).

Yes, Jesu was a bit rude, but after being unjustly accused by Gwallan that’s understandable.

So, Jaketk, I think you’re the one who owes Jesu an apology, for claiming that he had criticized Gwallan for mentioning his rape, when Jesu did no such thing. From now on please try harder not to lie about what other posters say.

And Gwallan, I’d like you to acknowlege that there’s no way we can be fairly be expected to know anything about your life you haven’t actually told us. And that accusing Jesu of calling you a liar wasn’t fair, under the circumstances.

The fact remains, you owe Gwallan an apology for attacking him for speaking about his rape at the hands of a woman. You did not launch into any of the women who mentioned their experiences. Regardless of your opinion about female perps actually exist, whether it is wrong, immoral, really that bad or a real problem, you still owe the man an apology.

Gwallan, in this entire thread, you’ve never once asserted that you were molested by a strange woman on public transport. This comment of yours strikes me as more of your predictable arrogance: it’s got to be all about you. Well, mostly, it’s not.

He never mentioned ANY specifics about his rape outside of being eight years old, so why are you attacking him for it? Why not ask him what happened instead of calling him arrogant?

Here, let’s try this. Gwallan, were you raped while using public tranportation?

When we have exhausted that to our feminist satisfaction, then we’ll move on.

Oh no, by all means, please keep doing what you are doing. It’s not like by ignoring male victims and female perps that abuse would actually continue or anything. I would not want you to lower your standards to deal with male victi–excuse me, potential sex offenders. Please leave all male “victims” to groups like Male Survivor.

Simply put, you are afraid* to say what we do know: that while we may not be certain how many rapes go unreported, nor be absolutely certain how many men who are raped fail to report their attacker, we do know that the vast majority of rapists are men.

And for some reason, we can also say for sure that you are unwilling to let male violence against women - rape and assault - be discussed, without disrupting the discussion, even though you have no new data to offer to justify your disruption.

*or unwilling

I mean, look, the you can argue that our methodology in measuring rape is faulty, and use that to say that it’s possible that there are more rapes than we believe, but you can’t use that to argue that magic unicorns live in your bellybutton.

And what exactly do magic unicorns have to do with statistics?

I’m not arguing against the proposition that our percentages of male/female stranger/aquaintance rape are off. I think they probably are. I’m arguing against your implied proposition that the large majority of rapes are not male on female. Keep in mind that even if female on male rapes are underreported by a 500% margin, that still would leave men with a huge majority . . . and it’s very very unlikely that they’re underreported by that much.

But you just admitted that it is possible that your statistics are off. So what exactly are you basing your assumption that the vast majority of rapes would be against women on? I have no problem stating that the majority of statistics, largely based on reported incidents, say that women are the majority of victims. I also have no problem stating that I do not believe we know just how many rapes occur, who does them, or who the victims are. Simply put, I am not afraid to say “I don’t know.” We do not know because most professionals state that most victims, particularly male victims, DO NOT report their assaults. That would include the police and also confidential studies.

Samuel must’ve missed the memo that explained how often those PE teachers and soccer moms are either one-and-the-same or partnered with one another. Maybe it’s time I sent out another “chain” letter. :D

Regardless of your ideologies of equality or essentialism, juries have their own realities. As much as it would be nice to pretend a leftist never-never land that should treat heterosexual soccer moms exactly the same way it treats bull dyke PE teachers, NAMBLA members, or homosexual b-boys, it just ain’t gonna happen.

As an attorney, I help my clients deal with the reality of the world, not some leftie dreamland. If they don’t do what I tell them, they WILL get sued, and they WILL pay.

Hear, hear! Here, here! That is the best summation of the situation in oh so many threads here & why it is irrelevant. Thank you QGrrl.

Gwallen: why is it that women can’t simply, and directly, discuss how men harm women? Why is it that men balk at this? How difficult should it be for women, in a public forum, to discuss the harm that men perpetrate against women? Because that harm does happen. Everyday. It isn’t rare, or unusual, or even unheard of. We aren’t here to discuss female wrongdoing. If we wanted to do that here, we sure as hell would do so. If we wanted to talk about how women, like me, have been raped by other women, we sure as hell would do that too. But that’s not what we want to do. We have yet to exhaust the topic of how men hurt women and how that is a socially condoned and normative experience. When we have exhausted that to our feminist satisfaction, then we’ll move on.

Further, you can’t possibly expect to see any relevance between debating or defining a patriarchal rape culture and claims of “but women do it too!” Show me the connection. Show me how saying “but women do it too” is the moral, political, and theorectical equivalent of defining a patriarchal rape culture. Forget statistics; I want theory, real theory. Show me the relevance of women’s gender when she is the rapist. If you cannot do that, but instead continually throw out “but women do it too!” you have a very weak and immature argument. Better yet, show me the relevance of women’s gender vis-a-vis her sex, and then show me the relevance of women’s gender when she is the rapist vis-a-vis gender as a hierachical power structure. Better still, let me see that you understand gender as a political and social force before you bleep out “but women do it too!”

Then, and only then, can we even get to the meat on the bone. Until then, you’re politics are transparent.