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	<title>Comments on: Critique of &#8220;No Basis&#8221; Part One: Their Appalling Double-Standards</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/</link>
	<description>Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 13:07:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Asher - Dreams Into Lightning</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/#comment-99468</link>
		<dc:creator>Asher - Dreams Into Lightning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Mar 2006 19:47:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/#comment-99468</guid>
		<description>Amp, excellent job.  Looking forward to the rest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amp, excellent job.  Looking forward to the rest.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/#comment-99457</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Mar 2006 14:12:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Given that Lerner and Nagai (as well as Nock and Wilcox) appear to be social-scientists-for-hire when it comes to finding socially conservative outcomes, it seems all of their results are in doubt.  Bias is clearly a two-way street and there are obviously researchers who are biased on the other side, but we should at least try to be honest about the biases (and funding) of the researchers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given that Lerner and Nagai (as well as Nock and Wilcox) appear to be social-scientists-for-hire when it comes to finding socially conservative outcomes, it seems all of their results are in doubt.  Bias is clearly a two-way street and there are obviously researchers who are biased on the other side, but we should at least try to be honest about the biases (and funding) of the researchers.</p>
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		<title>By: I â™¥ Dr. Calvin</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/#comment-99286</link>
		<dc:creator>I â™¥ Dr. Calvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 20:40:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/#comment-99286</guid>
		<description>We all assume these guys are hypocritical douche-bags so forget the ad hominem rabble-rousing stuff and bring on the &lt;em&gt;real&lt;/em&gt; rebuttal! 

I look forward to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We all assume these guys are hypocritical douche-bags so forget the ad hominem rabble-rousing stuff and bring on the <em>real</em> rebuttal! </p>
<p>I look forward to it.</p>
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		<title>By: spit</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/#comment-99275</link>
		<dc:creator>spit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 19:37:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/#comment-99275</guid>
		<description>mangala -- Soc and psych stuff not being my particular realm other than a personal interest, I also wonder if the "snowballing" -- participants finding other participants -- would even present a clear problem in this sort of study. You'd be likely, I'd think, to get a subset of folks from similar socio-economic backgrounds and the like, and while this would certainly limit the &lt;i&gt;breadth&lt;/i&gt; of the picture you'd get, it would also mean that you've to some degree controlled for other factors than queerness that may be involved in family dynamics, right?

Not even to mention the number of studies or their convergence, which is certainly a big pointer to me that they're at least finding &lt;i&gt;something&lt;/i&gt; consistent.

Dunno, I'm merely a chem geek. People aren't quite like molecules, though the similarities are sometimes striking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mangala &#8212; Soc and psych stuff not being my particular realm other than a personal interest, I also wonder if the &#8220;snowballing&#8221; &#8212; participants finding other participants &#8212; would even present a clear problem in this sort of study. You&#8217;d be likely, I&#8217;d think, to get a subset of folks from similar socio-economic backgrounds and the like, and while this would certainly limit the <i>breadth</i> of the picture you&#8217;d get, it would also mean that you&#8217;ve to some degree controlled for other factors than queerness that may be involved in family dynamics, right?</p>
<p>Not even to mention the number of studies or their convergence, which is certainly a big pointer to me that they&#8217;re at least finding <i>something</i> consistent.</p>
<p>Dunno, I&#8217;m merely a chem geek. People aren&#8217;t quite like molecules, though the similarities are sometimes striking.</p>
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		<title>By: PDXNAG</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/#comment-99262</link>
		<dc:creator>PDXNAG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:48:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/#comment-99262</guid>
		<description>I am still waiting for the study that links male sterility to poor parenting skills, with, of course, a prerequisite finding that there is even a sufficient nexus to even examine the issue. And, the corollary argument that non-sterility is unassailably conclusive of quality parenting skills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am still waiting for the study that links male sterility to poor parenting skills, with, of course, a prerequisite finding that there is even a sufficient nexus to even examine the issue. And, the corollary argument that non-sterility is unassailably conclusive of quality parenting skills.</p>
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		<title>By: Lab Kat</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/#comment-99254</link>
		<dc:creator>Lab Kat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 15:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/#comment-99254</guid>
		<description>It's the difference between conducting an actual scientific study and one with a hidden agenda.

*shakes head*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s the difference between conducting an actual scientific study and one with a hidden agenda.</p>
<p>*shakes head*</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Jasper</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/#comment-99229</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Jasper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 04:25:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>One wonders how many actual same sex parents Lerner and Nagai bothered to get to know.

Research is important, but there's a technical term for a sociologist who thinks he or she can make judgements based on nothing more than data points.  It's called "fucking asshole".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One wonders how many actual same sex parents Lerner and Nagai bothered to get to know.</p>
<p>Research is important, but there&#8217;s a technical term for a sociologist who thinks he or she can make judgements based on nothing more than data points.  It&#8217;s called &#8220;fucking asshole&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Tariqat</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/#comment-99226</link>
		<dc:creator>Tariqat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 03:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Family diversity is not a problem for development, and here's why.&lt;/strong&gt;

I'd like to focus on a particular study that I think did have a good methodology - and so do the authors of the review paper I read for class - incidentally by one of the authors Lerner and Nagai (2001) criticize.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Family diversity is not a problem for development, and here&#8217;s why.</strong></p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to focus on a particular study that I think did have a good methodology - and so do the authors of the review paper I read for class - incidentally by one of the authors Lerner and Nagai (2001) criticize.</p>
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		<title>By: mangala</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/#comment-99213</link>
		<dc:creator>mangala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 01:29:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/#comment-99213</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;What is the general consensus in the scientific community regarding Lerner and Nagai's issues?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

As a student, I can't speak for the psychological community, but my development professors have thus far all agreed that the evidence shows that two parents are better than one, for a variety of reasons, when it comes to socialization, but the gender of the parents does not seem to matter.  My feeling would be that over 49 studies, a convergence of evidence pointing to the same results (outcomes for children of same-sex parents are generally the same as for children of heterosexual parents, and where there is a difference, it generally favours the children in same-sex-parent families), there are reasonable grounds for saying that there is no difference.  Of course, having just read an extremely up-to-date literature on the effects of family diversity which reached the same conclusion, I may be a bit biased myself.

I would also say that there are some cases where in order to get enough participants for a reasonable sample size, truly random polling may be impossible. For example, when I worked in a lab recruiting participants for research into early cognitive development, I worked from a list of new parents who'd submitted their names to be participants. The people who actually came in to participate were largely affluent and highly educated. This is a biased sample, but it was the most efficient use of limited resources (i.e. busy undergrad volunteers!). Other researchers in the lab had tried to use ads, but the response for recruiting parents with young children  was so poor that it wasn't worth the cost of putting them up. 

When you're trying to get participants from a relatively small group - such as gay parents - I would say that putting up ads or making random phone calls would be a highly inefficient way to recruit participants, so getting participants to suggest other participants seems reasonable. (And I doubt that most psychology labs maintain a list of gay parents to contact for research purposes...) This may not be  ideal, but this is why it's important that results be replicated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>What is the general consensus in the scientific community regarding Lerner and Nagai&#8217;s issues?</p></blockquote>
<p>As a student, I can&#8217;t speak for the psychological community, but my development professors have thus far all agreed that the evidence shows that two parents are better than one, for a variety of reasons, when it comes to socialization, but the gender of the parents does not seem to matter.  My feeling would be that over 49 studies, a convergence of evidence pointing to the same results (outcomes for children of same-sex parents are generally the same as for children of heterosexual parents, and where there is a difference, it generally favours the children in same-sex-parent families), there are reasonable grounds for saying that there is no difference.  Of course, having just read an extremely up-to-date literature on the effects of family diversity which reached the same conclusion, I may be a bit biased myself.</p>
<p>I would also say that there are some cases where in order to get enough participants for a reasonable sample size, truly random polling may be impossible. For example, when I worked in a lab recruiting participants for research into early cognitive development, I worked from a list of new parents who&#8217;d submitted their names to be participants. The people who actually came in to participate were largely affluent and highly educated. This is a biased sample, but it was the most efficient use of limited resources (i.e. busy undergrad volunteers!). Other researchers in the lab had tried to use ads, but the response for recruiting parents with young children  was so poor that it wasn&#8217;t worth the cost of putting them up. </p>
<p>When you&#8217;re trying to get participants from a relatively small group - such as gay parents - I would say that putting up ads or making random phone calls would be a highly inefficient way to recruit participants, so getting participants to suggest other participants seems reasonable. (And I doubt that most psychology labs maintain a list of gay parents to contact for research purposes&#8230;) This may not be  ideal, but this is why it&#8217;s important that results be replicated.</p>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/#comment-99195</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 22:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/#comment-99195</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;One way of answering this question is to see if Lerner and Nagai have held their own research to the rigorous standards they insist are mandatory in No Basis.&lt;/i&gt;

The point is not how Lerner and Nagai have conducted their own research.  The point is whether or not the issues they raise are valid regarding the studies they discuss.  What is the general consensus in the scientific community regarding Lerner and Nagai's issues?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>One way of answering this question is to see if Lerner and Nagai have held their own research to the rigorous standards they insist are mandatory in No Basis.</i></p>
<p>The point is not how Lerner and Nagai have conducted their own research.  The point is whether or not the issues they raise are valid regarding the studies they discuss.  What is the general consensus in the scientific community regarding Lerner and Nagai&#8217;s issues?</p>
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		<title>By: Mikhaela</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/#comment-99189</link>
		<dc:creator>Mikhaela</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 22:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/#comment-99189</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the excellent analysis of that bogus anti-gay parent crap, Amp! In a much less analytical vein, I did a cartoon on the tongue-in-cheek "no republican adoption" bill. I should probably note that I of course don't believe in any such law--anything that can help kids in foster care be adopted by good parents of any party or orientation is good by me.

http://tinyurl.com/ojmfx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the excellent analysis of that bogus anti-gay parent crap, Amp! In a much less analytical vein, I did a cartoon on the tongue-in-cheek &#8220;no republican adoption&#8221; bill. I should probably note that I of course don&#8217;t believe in any such law&#8211;anything that can help kids in foster care be adopted by good parents of any party or orientation is good by me.</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/ojmfx" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/ojmfx</a></p>
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		<title>By: Web Dictionary - review-Words/review-PukiWiki</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/#comment-268263</link>
		<dc:creator>Web Dictionary - review-Words/review-PukiWiki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/03/02/critique-of-no-basis-part-one-their-appalling-double-standards/#comment-268263</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt; which appeared in the New York Times,. The compact Frick show is sublime. An early French biographer, Laurent Matheron, writing about Goya during his twilight in exile, blew off the late work as ...Critique of ¡ÈNo Basis¡É Part One: Their Appalling Double-Standards [Alas, a blog] To answer that question, I'll quote from a review of Lerner and Nagai's book American Elites (the review was published in the prestigious American Journal of Sociology, September 1997):. The samples can only be described as conceptually ...&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%--> which appeared in the New York Times,. The compact Frick show is sublime. An early French biographer, Laurent Matheron, writing about Goya during his twilight in exile, blew off the late work as &#8230;Critique of ¡ÈNo Basis¡É Part One: Their Appalling Double-Standards [Alas, a blog] To answer that question, I&#8217;ll quote from a review of Lerner and Nagai&#8217;s book American Elites (the review was published in the prestigious American Journal of Sociology, September 1997):. The samples can only be described as conceptually &#8230;<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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