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	<title>Comments on: The IWF Attack On Rape Statistics</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/</link>
	<description>Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Alas, a blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; NVAW Survey: Methodological Problems With The Question About Attempted Rape</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-292619</link>
		<dc:creator>Alas, a blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; NVAW Survey: Methodological Problems With The Question About Attempted Rape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 03:09:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-292619</guid>
		<description>[...] Sailorman says that the attempted rape question is too broadly worded, and will thus lead to false positives. His concern is reasonable on its face. However, in practice broadly-worded questions on rape prevalence surveys don&#8217;t lead to a significant number of false positives. For example, Mary Koss&#8217; famous rape prevalence study included a question about alcohol usage which was worded too broadly,4 causing many critics to claim that Koss&#8217; results exaggerated the prevalence of rape. However, a later study by Martin Schwartz and Molly Leggett5 tested the question empirically, repeating Koss&#8217; research with but replacing Koss&#8217; original question about alcohol and rape with a much more specifically worded question. What they found is that making the question more specific did not alter the survey&#8217;s results. (I discuss Schwartz and Leggett&#8217;s study in more detail in this post.) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Sailorman says that the attempted rape question is too broadly worded, and will thus lead to false positives. His concern is reasonable on its face. However, in practice broadly-worded questions on rape prevalence surveys don&#8217;t lead to a significant number of false positives. For example, Mary Koss&#8217; famous rape prevalence study included a question about alcohol usage which was worded too broadly,4 causing many critics to claim that Koss&#8217; results exaggerated the prevalence of rape. However, a later study by Martin Schwartz and Molly Leggett5 tested the question empirically, repeating Koss&#8217; research with but replacing Koss&#8217; original question about alcohol and rape with a much more specifically worded question. What they found is that making the question more specific did not alter the survey&#8217;s results. (I discuss Schwartz and Leggett&#8217;s study in more detail in this post.) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Alas, a blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Ampersand&#8217;s 10 Best Of 2006</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-227303</link>
		<dc:creator>Alas, a blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Ampersand&#8217;s 10 Best Of 2006</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jan 2007 08:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-227303</guid>
		<description>[...] The IWF Attack On Rape Statistics. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The IWF Attack On Rape Statistics. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ismone</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-111632</link>
		<dc:creator>Ismone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 May 2006 22:56:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-111632</guid>
		<description>Amp,

Great post.  I hadn't heard that question defended before (it always gave me pause, and I read Hoff Summers' book)--and your answer makes a lot of sense.  I hadn't even thought about validity testing.

It's also interesting that these antifeminists don't come up with any stats. about how many women are really raped, or have any terminal point.  Even if they could show that not all 15% that Mary Koss reported really were raped, who cares?  So, an inflated number means we should what?  Especially considering the fact that you pointed out--studies with (by their lights) better methodology have found the same result.

The good old red herring defense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amp,</p>
<p>Great post.  I hadn&#8217;t heard that question defended before (it always gave me pause, and I read Hoff Summers&#8217; book)&#8211;and your answer makes a lot of sense.  I hadn&#8217;t even thought about validity testing.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also interesting that these antifeminists don&#8217;t come up with any stats. about how many women are really raped, or have any terminal point.  Even if they could show that not all 15% that Mary Koss reported really were raped, who cares?  So, an inflated number means we should what?  Especially considering the fact that you pointed out&#8211;studies with (by their lights) better methodology have found the same result.</p>
<p>The good old red herring defense.</p>
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		<title>By: Polymath</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-111353</link>
		<dc:creator>Polymath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 May 2006 05:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-111353</guid>
		<description>another important reason not to rely on self-reporting that "it was definitely rape" is that the standards of "what is rape" is (and ought to be) a legal one, not a subjective one.  in fact, experiencing or witnessing abuse as a child is very likely to skew anyone's "was that rape?"-detector.  the tragedy of abusive families (beyond the suffering of the family members, of course) is exactly that:  it makes the victims unable to discern future abusive situations from acceptable situations ("violence against me is normal because that's how it was growing up").

if answering "yes" to Koss's questions has a high correlation to having experienced legally defined rape (which amp is arguing it does), then the answer to "was it definitely rape?" is irrelevant, and any criticisms based on the answer to that question can't hold up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>another important reason not to rely on self-reporting that &#8220;it was definitely rape&#8221; is that the standards of &#8220;what is rape&#8221; is (and ought to be) a legal one, not a subjective one.  in fact, experiencing or witnessing abuse as a child is very likely to skew anyone&#8217;s &#8220;was that rape?&#8221;-detector.  the tragedy of abusive families (beyond the suffering of the family members, of course) is exactly that:  it makes the victims unable to discern future abusive situations from acceptable situations (&#8221;violence against me is normal because that&#8217;s how it was growing up&#8221;).</p>
<p>if answering &#8220;yes&#8221; to Koss&#8217;s questions has a high correlation to having experienced legally defined rape (which amp is arguing it does), then the answer to &#8220;was it definitely rape?&#8221; is irrelevant, and any criticisms based on the answer to that question can&#8217;t hold up.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-111319</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 May 2006 00:22:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-111319</guid>
		<description>In a class I taught this semester we discussed when unwanted sex becomes rape.  The main text used for discussion was a truly excellent paper by Sarah Conly- "Seduction, Rape, and Coercion", from the journal _Ethics_ in 2004.  It's well worth reading.  What was especially interesting to me, though, was that of the students who wrote papers on the subject, the men were much more sympathetic to a strict standard not only for what counts, legally, as rape but what sorts of behavior, while not being rape, is seriously morally wrong.  It was a small group of students, but still it was a weird experience.  (Let me recommend Conly's paper one more time.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a class I taught this semester we discussed when unwanted sex becomes rape.  The main text used for discussion was a truly excellent paper by Sarah Conly- &#8220;Seduction, Rape, and Coercion&#8221;, from the journal _Ethics_ in 2004.  It&#8217;s well worth reading.  What was especially interesting to me, though, was that of the students who wrote papers on the subject, the men were much more sympathetic to a strict standard not only for what counts, legally, as rape but what sorts of behavior, while not being rape, is seriously morally wrong.  It was a small group of students, but still it was a weird experience.  (Let me recommend Conly&#8217;s paper one more time.)</p>
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		<title>By: Lindsay Beyerstein</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-111317</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindsay Beyerstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 May 2006 00:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-111317</guid>
		<description>Thank you for an excellent post, Amp.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for an excellent post, Amp.</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel S.</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-111228</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 May 2006 18:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-111228</guid>
		<description>Yeah, a favorite rape prevalance survey. LOL!! I don't know what that says about you Amp. LOL!!

One of the interesting findings is how many of the women didn't think it was rape.....When I tell my students about the questions they usally laugh, but they don't realize that you can't ask women if they were raped and capture many of the rapes out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, a favorite rape prevalance survey. LOL!! I don&#8217;t know what that says about you Amp. LOL!!</p>
<p>One of the interesting findings is how many of the women didn&#8217;t think it was rape&#8230;..When I tell my students about the questions they usally laugh, but they don&#8217;t realize that you can&#8217;t ask women if they were raped and capture many of the rapes out there.</p>
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		<title>By: Sheelzebub</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-111226</link>
		<dc:creator>Sheelzebub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 May 2006 17:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-111226</guid>
		<description>These anti-feminists love to beat dead horses, don't they?  Or maybe it's just their attempt to establish falsehoods as conventional wisdom--repeat KOSS IS WRONG! WRONG! WRONG I TELL YOU! enough times, and people will start to believe it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These anti-feminists love to beat dead horses, don&#8217;t they?  Or maybe it&#8217;s just their attempt to establish falsehoods as conventional wisdom&#8211;repeat KOSS IS WRONG! WRONG! WRONG I TELL YOU! enough times, and people will start to believe it.</p>
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		<title>By: Ampersand</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-111223</link>
		<dc:creator>Ampersand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 May 2006 17:45:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-111223</guid>
		<description>That one's my favorite, Rachel.  (Yes, I have a favorite rape prevalence survey.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That one&#8217;s my favorite, Rachel.  (Yes, I have a favorite rape prevalence survey.)</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel S.</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-111215</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 May 2006 17:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-111215</guid>
		<description>I would highly reccomend looking &lt;a href="http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/182369.pdf#search='National%20College%20Women%20Victims%20Survey'" rel="nofollow"&gt; this survey&lt;/a&gt; from 2000.  It has relatively similar findings.  It is the basis for my rape lactures in my classes.

There is some very finding things, especially when you look at the methodology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would highly reccomend looking <a href="http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/182369.pdf#search='National%20College%20Women%20Victims%20Survey'" rel="nofollow"> this survey</a> from 2000.  It has relatively similar findings.  It is the basis for my rape lactures in my classes.</p>
<p>There is some very finding things, especially when you look at the methodology.</p>
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		<title>By: F-Words</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-271354</link>
		<dc:creator>F-Words</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-271354</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;Why would someone not consider this rape? How could I, a person who's called herself a feminist since grade school, not recognize the classic date rape scenario? I'm not the only one who has had this problem in the aftermath of rape. Consider this discussion of a survey of college students at Alas. The survey says that of college-aged women who had been forced to have sex, only 23% said that it was "definitely rape."  A while back, Happy Feminist had a great post&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%-->Why would someone not consider this rape? How could I, a person who&#8217;s called herself a feminist since grade school, not recognize the classic date rape scenario? I&#8217;m not the only one who has had this problem in the aftermath of rape. Consider this discussion of a survey of college students at Alas. The survey says that of college-aged women who had been forced to have sex, only 23% said that it was &#8220;definitely rape.&#8221;  A while back, Happy Feminist had a great post<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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		<title>By:  PunkAssBlog.com</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-262670</link>
		<dc:creator> PunkAssBlog.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-262670</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;nutjobs have been working overtime to marginalize: 1 in 5 people taking this survey admitted to trying to use alcohol or the mary jane to coerce someone into fucking. Nobody talks about the issue of rape statistics better than Ampersand at Alas, andyesterday he had a fantastic post continuing his defense of Mary Koss’ findings. The National Review tried to hate on her determination that 27% of women were victims of rape or attempted rape by picking on one of her 3 questions used in the survey&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%-->nutjobs have been working overtime to marginalize: 1 in 5 people taking this survey admitted to trying to use alcohol or the mary jane to coerce someone into fucking. Nobody talks about the issue of rape statistics better than Ampersand at Alas, andyesterday he had a fantastic post continuing his defense of Mary Koss’ findings. The National Review tried to hate on her determination that 27% of women were victims of rape or attempted rape by picking on one of her 3 questions used in the survey<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Majikthise</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-262671</link>
		<dc:creator>Majikthise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-262671</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt; Antheia of Mad Melancholic Feminista.Amp of Alas a Blog. Posted by Lindsay Beyerstein at 07:58 PM in Gender issues, Law, Medicine , Politics &#124; Permalink &#124; Comments (0) &#124; TrackBack (0)&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%--> Antheia of Mad Melancholic Feminista.Amp of Alas a Blog. Posted by Lindsay Beyerstein at 07:58 PM in Gender issues, Law, Medicine , Politics | Permalink | Comments (0) | TrackBack (0)<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: feminist blogs</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-262672</link>
		<dc:creator>feminist blogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-262672</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt; groundbreaking study of rape prevalence. Lukas’ target is Koss’ finding that 1 in 4 college women has experienced either rape or attempted rape since age 14. The one-in-four statistic… was derived from a survey of 3,000 college […]Continue reading at Alas, a blog … posted 10:24 am at Alas, a blog&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%--> groundbreaking study of rape prevalence. Lukas’ target is Koss’ finding that 1 in 4 college women has experienced either rape or attempted rape since age 14. The one-in-four statistic… was derived from a survey of 3,000 college […]Continue reading at Alas, a blog … posted 10:24 am at Alas, a blog<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: FeministBlogosphere</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-262673</link>
		<dc:creator>FeministBlogosphere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/03/the-iwf-attack-on-rape-statistics/#comment-262673</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;05/03The IWF Attack On Rape Statistics&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%-->05/03The IWF Attack On Rape Statistics<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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