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	<title>Comments on: Claim That Duke Rape Victim Said She Was Raped By 20 Men Appears To Be Nonsense</title>
	<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/</link>
	<description>Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Alas, a blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Duke Case: Nifong&#8217;s Trial Has Begun</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-296082</link>
		<dc:creator>Alas, a blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Duke Case: Nifong&#8217;s Trial Has Begun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 20:46:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-296082</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8220;she claimed to have been raped by 20 men&#8221; claim is complete bullshit, and Jean shouldn&#8217;t be using it. That Mary Doe ever claimed that &#8220;20 men&#8221; raped [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] &#8220;she claimed to have been raped by 20 men&#8221; claim is complete bullshit, and Jean shouldn&#8217;t be using it. That Mary Doe ever claimed that &#8220;20 men&#8221; raped [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Alas, a blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Duke Case: Were I On The Jury, I&#8217;d Vote &#8220;Not Guilty&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-199916</link>
		<dc:creator>Alas, a blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Duke Case: Were I On The Jury, I&#8217;d Vote &#8220;Not Guilty&#8221;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Nov 2006 09:14:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-199916</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;ve said a few times in the past that although I think Mary Doe was raped at that party, I also recognize that I could be mistaken about that. And I continue to believe that many of the arguments supporting the &#8220;Mary Doe is a liar&#8221; case - that her initial statements to police were jumbled and incoherent, that she&#8217;s a stripper, and that she also reported being gang-raped many years ago, for three examples - are not only garbage, but are based in dangerous, harmful myths about rape. All of these complaints are variations of The Myth Of The Platonic Rape Victim - the idea we should imagine a perfect rape victim, and then ask if the complainant&#8217;s behavior and statements match what our imaginary perfect rape victim would have done and said. The Platonic Rape Victim&#8217;s statements are never incoherent, contradictory or inaccurate; the Platonic Rape Victim is not raped twice in one lifetime; the Platonic Rape Victim is certainly not a stripper! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] I&#8217;ve said a few times in the past that although I think Mary Doe was raped at that party, I also recognize that I could be mistaken about that. And I continue to believe that many of the arguments supporting the &#8220;Mary Doe is a liar&#8221; case - that her initial statements to police were jumbled and incoherent, that she&#8217;s a stripper, and that she also reported being gang-raped many years ago, for three examples - are not only garbage, but are based in dangerous, harmful myths about rape. All of these complaints are variations of The Myth Of The Platonic Rape Victim - the idea we should imagine a perfect rape victim, and then ask if the complainant&#8217;s behavior and statements match what our imaginary perfect rape victim would have done and said. The Platonic Rape Victim&#8217;s statements are never incoherent, contradictory or inaccurate; the Platonic Rape Victim is not raped twice in one lifetime; the Platonic Rape Victim is certainly not a stripper! [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: ginmar</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112579</link>
		<dc:creator>ginmar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 May 2006 20:24:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112579</guid>
		<description>What gets me is that if she were a man, she'd be a hero.  She's a plucky poor single mother, doing whatever it takes to support her kids.....if she were a single father,  she'd be canonized.   Imagine a plucky single dad who got attacked by rich white boys while working a hard and dangerous job to support his kid?  That incident in her past would just  an example of high-spirited hijnks. If our single dad had been raped as a fourteen-year-old, his stance now would be a sign of bravery. Just because she's a woman, it's seen as a sign of mendacity. Women lie: all women lie.   They are guilty till proven innocent, and even then, well, they still don't deserve to ruin a man's life.  She asked for it.  Men, of course, never ask for it. 

  If she were a guy, she'd be a hero in this scenario.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What gets me is that if she were a man, she&#8217;d be a hero.  She&#8217;s a plucky poor single mother, doing whatever it takes to support her kids&#8230;..if she were a single father,  she&#8217;d be canonized.   Imagine a plucky single dad who got attacked by rich white boys while working a hard and dangerous job to support his kid?  That incident in her past would just  an example of high-spirited hijnks. If our single dad had been raped as a fourteen-year-old, his stance now would be a sign of bravery. Just because she&#8217;s a woman, it&#8217;s seen as a sign of mendacity. Women lie: all women lie.   They are guilty till proven innocent, and even then, well, they still don&#8217;t deserve to ruin a man&#8217;s life.  She asked for it.  Men, of course, never ask for it. </p>
<p>  If she were a guy, she&#8217;d be a hero in this scenario.</p>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112573</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 May 2006 19:36:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112573</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The State Bureau of Investigation did an initial round of DNA testing in the lacrosse case. But according to defense attorneys, the SBI found no DNA from the 46 lacrosse players in or on the dancer's body, on her clothing and belongings or under her fingernails.  But Nifong decided to hire a private laboratory to do additional testing. He has said he expects a final report from that lab by Monday.&lt;/i&gt;

The State lab found nothing, but a private lab did?  If I'm a taxpayer in the State of Georgia, I'm wondering what I'm paying for.

I wonder what inspired AG Nifong to hire a private lab after the State lab came up blank?  What does he know about the State lab?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The State Bureau of Investigation did an initial round of DNA testing in the lacrosse case. But according to defense attorneys, the SBI found no DNA from the 46 lacrosse players in or on the dancer&#8217;s body, on her clothing and belongings or under her fingernails.  But Nifong decided to hire a private laboratory to do additional testing. He has said he expects a final report from that lab by Monday.</i></p>
<p>The State lab found nothing, but a private lab did?  If I&#8217;m a taxpayer in the State of Georgia, I&#8217;m wondering what I&#8217;m paying for.</p>
<p>I wonder what inspired AG Nifong to hire a private lab after the State lab came up blank?  What does he know about the State lab?</p>
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		<title>By: April</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112469</link>
		<dc:creator>April</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 23:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112469</guid>
		<description>It's a war between the liberals and the conservatives.  It is a shame that liberals are on the side of this woman, and that conservatives are not.  Both sides should be advocating for this woman.  There must have been proof that she had been raped.  Semen or bruises, etc.  I remember reading about a fingernail, etc.  The truth will come out loud and clear, but I do not think that the WASP conservatives will want to hear or see it.  Shoot, they can't even handle it now.  Being quiet and just letting this woman suffer, and using the good ol' "blame the victim" tactic always seems to be viable with black women.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a war between the liberals and the conservatives.  It is a shame that liberals are on the side of this woman, and that conservatives are not.  Both sides should be advocating for this woman.  There must have been proof that she had been raped.  Semen or bruises, etc.  I remember reading about a fingernail, etc.  The truth will come out loud and clear, but I do not think that the WASP conservatives will want to hear or see it.  Shoot, they can&#8217;t even handle it now.  Being quiet and just letting this woman suffer, and using the good ol&#8217; &#8220;blame the victim&#8221; tactic always seems to be viable with black women.</p>
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		<title>By: Gina</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112414</link>
		<dc:creator>Gina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 18:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112414</guid>
		<description>First DNA link possible in lacrosse case      
 
 
By John Stevenson : The Herald-Sun

May 11, 2006 : 12:20 am ET 

DURHAM -- Tissue found under the fingernail of an exotic dancer who claimed she was raped at a Duke University lacrosse party may match a player who was there, several well-placed sources said Wednesday. 

Analyzing the tissue, scientists concluded it came from the same genetic pool and was "consistent" with the bodily makeup of one of 46 lacrosse players who gave DNA samples for testing, the sources said. 

At the same time, scientists ruled out a possible match with any of the other 45 students, according to the sources. 

If accurate, the fingernail tissue match would offer the first DNA evidence potentially linking the dancer and an alleged attacker. 

But because a complete DNA pattern was not obtained from the tissue, it was not possible to match it with the nearly 100 percent certainty that DNA results usually offer, the sources added. 

The dancer told police she clawed at three attackers as they raped and sodomized her for 30 minutes during the March 13-14 lacrosse house party at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd. 

Police later recovered several stick-on acrylic fingernails from a trashcan, and the tissue in question was found under one of those nails, the sources said. 

District Attorney Mike Nifong was said to be away from his office all day Wednesday and could not be reached for comment. 

The State Bureau of Investigation did an initial round of DNA testing in the lacrosse case. But according to defense attorneys, the SBI found no DNA from the 46 lacrosse players in or on the dancer's body, on her clothing and belongings or under her fingernails. 

But Nifong decided to hire a private laboratory to do additional testing. He has said he expects a final report from that lab by Monday. 

A DNA expert said Wednesday that one way a DNA report sometimes says DNA is "consistent" with a particular person is when there's a partial DNA profile of fewer than all 13 genetic markers commonly used in testing kits. 

In that case, the number of markers available determines the reliability of the match, said Theodore D. Kessis, owner of Applied DNA Resources in Columbus, Ohio. 

"It really depends then upon how partial is that profile," he said in a telephone interview. "A lot of people are of the opinion, including myself, that if it's supposed to test for 13, it should get 13, and something less than 13 is starting to hinge on the reliability of the result. 

"When you get down into the two or three partial match, you get numbers that might be 1 in 6, it might be 1 in 10, so what happens then is the question of what's the probative value of the report. ... People play the lottery on worse odds." 

So far, two lacrosse players have been indicted on rape charges: Duke sophomores Reade Seligmann and Collin Finnerty. 

The alleged victim reportedly picked those two out of a photo lineup and identified them with what she claimed was 100 percent certainty. 

Nifong said earlier he was pursuing the possibility of another indictment, although reports indicated the dancer was able to identify a third person with only 90 percent certainty. WRAL-TV, citing a transcript of the photo identification session the dancer had with police, reported Wednesday that she indicated a fourth player also may have been involved in assaulting her. 

Tissue found under the dancer's fingernails was consistent with the third man's DNA pattern, sources told The Herald-Sun on Wednesday. 

In addition, the sources said a male pubic hair had been linked to the case. But because the hair lacked a root, no identifiable DNA was obtained from it, they said. The only thing that could be determined was that the hair came from a white man, the sources said. 

They did not pinpoint where the hair was found. But when police investigate rape cases, they normally comb through the alleged victim's pubic hair to determine whether male hairs are intermingled. 

On DNA from hair, Kessis agreed that a common method for extracting and analyzing DNA, called nuclear DNA, usually requires tissue from a hair root. Another method, however, called mitochondrial DNA, can obtain DNA from hair shafts through DNA sequencing. That method yields results that are "not quite as probative," with matching probabilities typically between 1 in 200 and 1 in 4,000 to 5,000. 

In another development Wednesday, defense attorney Bill Cotter obtained a monthlong postponement of Finnerty's preliminary appearance in Durham County Superior Court. The appearance had been scheduled for May 18. But Judge Ron Stephens granted a delay until the week of June 19. 

Cotter said he needed the delay because he had not yet received enough "discovery material" from the District Attorney's Office. 

Although the lawyer declined to be specific, such material normally includes things like police notes, medical reports and statements made to officers by victims and suspects. 

So far, Seligmann has not requested a postponement of his May 18 preliminary court appearance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First DNA link possible in lacrosse case      </p>
<p>By John Stevenson : The Herald-Sun</p>
<p>May 11, 2006 : 12:20 am ET </p>
<p>DURHAM &#8212; Tissue found under the fingernail of an exotic dancer who claimed she was raped at a Duke University lacrosse party may match a player who was there, several well-placed sources said Wednesday. </p>
<p>Analyzing the tissue, scientists concluded it came from the same genetic pool and was &#8220;consistent&#8221; with the bodily makeup of one of 46 lacrosse players who gave DNA samples for testing, the sources said. </p>
<p>At the same time, scientists ruled out a possible match with any of the other 45 students, according to the sources. </p>
<p>If accurate, the fingernail tissue match would offer the first DNA evidence potentially linking the dancer and an alleged attacker. </p>
<p>But because a complete DNA pattern was not obtained from the tissue, it was not possible to match it with the nearly 100 percent certainty that DNA results usually offer, the sources added. </p>
<p>The dancer told police she clawed at three attackers as they raped and sodomized her for 30 minutes during the March 13-14 lacrosse house party at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd. </p>
<p>Police later recovered several stick-on acrylic fingernails from a trashcan, and the tissue in question was found under one of those nails, the sources said. </p>
<p>District Attorney Mike Nifong was said to be away from his office all day Wednesday and could not be reached for comment. </p>
<p>The State Bureau of Investigation did an initial round of DNA testing in the lacrosse case. But according to defense attorneys, the SBI found no DNA from the 46 lacrosse players in or on the dancer&#8217;s body, on her clothing and belongings or under her fingernails. </p>
<p>But Nifong decided to hire a private laboratory to do additional testing. He has said he expects a final report from that lab by Monday. </p>
<p>A DNA expert said Wednesday that one way a DNA report sometimes says DNA is &#8220;consistent&#8221; with a particular person is when there&#8217;s a partial DNA profile of fewer than all 13 genetic markers commonly used in testing kits. </p>
<p>In that case, the number of markers available determines the reliability of the match, said Theodore D. Kessis, owner of Applied DNA Resources in Columbus, Ohio. </p>
<p>&#8220;It really depends then upon how partial is that profile,&#8221; he said in a telephone interview. &#8220;A lot of people are of the opinion, including myself, that if it&#8217;s supposed to test for 13, it should get 13, and something less than 13 is starting to hinge on the reliability of the result. </p>
<p>&#8220;When you get down into the two or three partial match, you get numbers that might be 1 in 6, it might be 1 in 10, so what happens then is the question of what&#8217;s the probative value of the report. &#8230; People play the lottery on worse odds.&#8221; </p>
<p>So far, two lacrosse players have been indicted on rape charges: Duke sophomores Reade Seligmann and Collin Finnerty. </p>
<p>The alleged victim reportedly picked those two out of a photo lineup and identified them with what she claimed was 100 percent certainty. </p>
<p>Nifong said earlier he was pursuing the possibility of another indictment, although reports indicated the dancer was able to identify a third person with only 90 percent certainty. WRAL-TV, citing a transcript of the photo identification session the dancer had with police, reported Wednesday that she indicated a fourth player also may have been involved in assaulting her. </p>
<p>Tissue found under the dancer&#8217;s fingernails was consistent with the third man&#8217;s DNA pattern, sources told The Herald-Sun on Wednesday. </p>
<p>In addition, the sources said a male pubic hair had been linked to the case. But because the hair lacked a root, no identifiable DNA was obtained from it, they said. The only thing that could be determined was that the hair came from a white man, the sources said. </p>
<p>They did not pinpoint where the hair was found. But when police investigate rape cases, they normally comb through the alleged victim&#8217;s pubic hair to determine whether male hairs are intermingled. </p>
<p>On DNA from hair, Kessis agreed that a common method for extracting and analyzing DNA, called nuclear DNA, usually requires tissue from a hair root. Another method, however, called mitochondrial DNA, can obtain DNA from hair shafts through DNA sequencing. That method yields results that are &#8220;not quite as probative,&#8221; with matching probabilities typically between 1 in 200 and 1 in 4,000 to 5,000. </p>
<p>In another development Wednesday, defense attorney Bill Cotter obtained a monthlong postponement of Finnerty&#8217;s preliminary appearance in Durham County Superior Court. The appearance had been scheduled for May 18. But Judge Ron Stephens granted a delay until the week of June 19. </p>
<p>Cotter said he needed the delay because he had not yet received enough &#8220;discovery material&#8221; from the District Attorney&#8217;s Office. </p>
<p>Although the lawyer declined to be specific, such material normally includes things like police notes, medical reports and statements made to officers by victims and suspects. </p>
<p>So far, Seligmann has not requested a postponement of his May 18 preliminary court appearance.</p>
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		<title>By: Q Grrl</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112408</link>
		<dc:creator>Q Grrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 17:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112408</guid>
		<description>See, here's a really, really good example of the only appropriate title for this story from:

http://www.wral.com/news/9189103/detail.html

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Officer's Eavesdropping May Be Basis Of Duke Police Report
Duke Officer Who Filed Report Did Not Talk To Alleged Victim



DURHAM, N.C. -- Durham's city manager says a Duke police report that downplayed the lacrosse gang-rape allegations stemmed from what an officer overheard on the phone.

&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You can get it all in there without casting aspersions -- even if those aspersions "help" others find the story later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See, here&#8217;s a really, really good example of the only appropriate title for this story from:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.wral.com/news/9189103/detail.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.wral.com/news/9189103/detail.html</a></p>
<blockquote><p>
Officer&#8217;s Eavesdropping May Be Basis Of Duke Police Report<br />
Duke Officer Who Filed Report Did Not Talk To Alleged Victim</p>
<p>DURHAM, N.C. &#8212; Durham&#8217;s city manager says a Duke police report that downplayed the lacrosse gang-rape allegations stemmed from what an officer overheard on the phone.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>You can get it all in there without casting aspersions &#8212; even if those aspersions &#8220;help&#8221; others find the story later.</p>
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		<title>By: belledame222</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112405</link>
		<dc:creator>belledame222</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 17:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112405</guid>
		<description>I am constantly amazed by just how much sentiment, covert *and* overt, I have seen that basically says that because the woman is/was in the sex industry, she must be lying like a rug.  I shouldn't be, I suppose.  It really does speak volumes about just how far we've really come wrt attitudes about sexuality.  

this is of course in addition to the she's-black-so-she's-lying, she's-a-woman-so-she's-lying, she's-poor-so-she's-lying...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am constantly amazed by just how much sentiment, covert *and* overt, I have seen that basically says that because the woman is/was in the sex industry, she must be lying like a rug.  I shouldn&#8217;t be, I suppose.  It really does speak volumes about just how far we&#8217;ve really come wrt attitudes about sexuality.  </p>
<p>this is of course in addition to the she&#8217;s-black-so-she&#8217;s-lying, she&#8217;s-a-woman-so-she&#8217;s-lying, she&#8217;s-poor-so-she&#8217;s-lying&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112391</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 16:16:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112391</guid>
		<description>Where's PO Masurek's report?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where&#8217;s PO Masurek&#8217;s report?</p>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112390</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 16:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112390</guid>
		<description>Is this report germane to the rape prosecution?  Presuming it's true (and I don't), would the fact that such a claim was made by the victim and then later modified by her be germane to the trial?

If it is, the bottom line is that this claim, second-hand though it is, is in an official police report.  So the defense is going to check it out.

In looking at the report, PO Masurek seems to have been at the ER, talked to the victim, and called LT Best, who then got the ball rolling with the Durham police.  PO Masurek would seem to be the source of the report of this claim.

Since a second-hand report of this claim did find it's way into a police report, it seems PO Day should be asked who said this.  If PO Day doesn't come up with a name, then the report is discredited.  If PO Day does come up with a name, whoever it would be (PO Masurek?) should be interviewed to see if he or she heard this from the victim directly, or if it was from someone else in the ER, and so on down the line.  If it's hearsay, it should be debunked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is this report germane to the rape prosecution?  Presuming it&#8217;s true (and I don&#8217;t), would the fact that such a claim was made by the victim and then later modified by her be germane to the trial?</p>
<p>If it is, the bottom line is that this claim, second-hand though it is, is in an official police report.  So the defense is going to check it out.</p>
<p>In looking at the report, PO Masurek seems to have been at the ER, talked to the victim, and called LT Best, who then got the ball rolling with the Durham police.  PO Masurek would seem to be the source of the report of this claim.</p>
<p>Since a second-hand report of this claim did find it&#8217;s way into a police report, it seems PO Day should be asked who said this.  If PO Day doesn&#8217;t come up with a name, then the report is discredited.  If PO Day does come up with a name, whoever it would be (PO Masurek?) should be interviewed to see if he or she heard this from the victim directly, or if it was from someone else in the ER, and so on down the line.  If it&#8217;s hearsay, it should be debunked.</p>
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		<title>By: pdf23ds</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112378</link>
		<dc:creator>pdf23ds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 14:31:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112378</guid>
		<description>From the sound of it, I wouldn't be surprised of the officer in question would back down about the report in question when asked about it.

Amp, your post was truncated about halfway through for some reason.

&lt;em&gt;[Yeesh! Fixed now. Thanks for letting me know. --Amp]&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the sound of it, I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised of the officer in question would back down about the report in question when asked about it.</p>
<p>Amp, your post was truncated about halfway through for some reason.</p>
<p><em>[Yeesh! Fixed now. Thanks for letting me know. &#8211;Amp]</em></p>
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		<title>By: Q Grrl</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112376</link>
		<dc:creator>Q Grrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 14:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112376</guid>
		<description>You have every right to snark Amp.  

I'm really upset about how this story has been framed -- and not just by you.  For me, it's one of those instances where the subtlety and pervasiveness of misogyny is so apparent to women, particularly rape victims, but is not apparent to most guys.  I don't know how to explain it well -- but I know it's there, my visceral reaction lets me know it's there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have every right to snark Amp.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m really upset about how this story has been framed &#8212; and not just by you.  For me, it&#8217;s one of those instances where the subtlety and pervasiveness of misogyny is so apparent to women, particularly rape victims, but is not apparent to most guys.  I don&#8217;t know how to explain it well &#8212; but I know it&#8217;s there, my visceral reaction lets me know it&#8217;s there.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaethe</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112370</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaethe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 13:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112370</guid>
		<description>Well done, Amp.  I like "Nonesense" in the head.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done, Amp.  I like &#8220;Nonesense&#8221; in the head.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112360</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 12:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112360</guid>
		<description>One correction to the first paragraph - it is a North Carolina Central University student.

&lt;em&gt;[Thanks! Correction made! --Amp]&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One correction to the first paragraph - it is a North Carolina Central University student.</p>
<p><em>[Thanks! Correction made! &#8211;Amp]</em></p>
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		<title>By: me</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112321</link>
		<dc:creator>me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 02:31:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112321</guid>
		<description>No jury will ever see this report offered as evidence; that was not the motivation for preparing it.

The motivation was to investigate how Duke's staff handled the information as it became available. Were the correct people in the chain timely notified, what information were they provided, and what actions did they then undertake?

What this document does for the defense is point their investigators in a particular direction and give them a focus for their interrogations (I mean, cross-examination) of Durham and Duke Police Officers.

Reconstructing that overheard conversation will not be a difficult task. Cops' movements are logged meticulously, so identifying the participants is as simple as opening a calendar.

Realize too, these are not merely witnesses, these are law enforcement officers. Their reports are even more sacrosanct than an accuser's allegation. If people start doubting the credibility of the Durham or Duke police in any way, that weakens the prosecution's case and strengthens the defense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No jury will ever see this report offered as evidence; that was not the motivation for preparing it.</p>
<p>The motivation was to investigate how Duke&#8217;s staff handled the information as it became available. Were the correct people in the chain timely notified, what information were they provided, and what actions did they then undertake?</p>
<p>What this document does for the defense is point their investigators in a particular direction and give them a focus for their interrogations (I mean, cross-examination) of Durham and Duke Police Officers.</p>
<p>Reconstructing that overheard conversation will not be a difficult task. Cops&#8217; movements are logged meticulously, so identifying the participants is as simple as opening a calendar.</p>
<p>Realize too, these are not merely witnesses, these are law enforcement officers. Their reports are even more sacrosanct than an accuser&#8217;s allegation. If people start doubting the credibility of the Durham or Duke police in any way, that weakens the prosecution&#8217;s case and strengthens the defense.</p>
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		<title>By: azbballfan</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112312</link>
		<dc:creator>azbballfan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 23:32:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112312</guid>
		<description>Personally I would have liked:

Duke Police Director makes lame attempt to cover his butt:  Administration tipped off team of police investigation.

or:

Ex Princeton University President proves unable to write a coherent sentence: High School English teacher commits suicide.

&lt;blockquote&gt;After the victim of the alleged assaults was taken to the Emergency Room of the Duke Hospital in the early morning hours of March 14, having earlier told Durham police that she was raped and sexually assaulted by approximately 20 white members of a Duke team (a charge later modified to allege an attack by three individuals in a bathroom), the official report of the Duke Police Department was submitted and reviewed by the Duke Police Director, Robert Dean, at 7:30 a.m. on March 14.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally I would have liked:</p>
<p>Duke Police Director makes lame attempt to cover his butt:  Administration tipped off team of police investigation.</p>
<p>or:</p>
<p>Ex Princeton University President proves unable to write a coherent sentence: High School English teacher commits suicide.</p>
<blockquote><p>After the victim of the alleged assaults was taken to the Emergency Room of the Duke Hospital in the early morning hours of March 14, having earlier told Durham police that she was raped and sexually assaulted by approximately 20 white members of a Duke team (a charge later modified to allege an attack by three individuals in a bathroom), the official report of the Duke Police Department was submitted and reviewed by the Duke Police Director, Robert Dean, at 7:30 a.m. on March 14.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Abyss2hope</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112311</link>
		<dc:creator>Abyss2hope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 23:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112311</guid>
		<description>I posted &lt;a href="http://abyss2hope.blogspot.com/2006/05/report-durham-police-downplayed-duke.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;my reaction to the May 4 report&lt;/a&gt; on my blog  but since then I've been surprised at how quickly those who buy into the defense spin are making the same mistake that the Duke leadership made and taking unsubstantiated opinions as fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted <a href="http://abyss2hope.blogspot.com/2006/05/report-durham-police-downplayed-duke.html" rel="nofollow">my reaction to the May 4 report</a> on my blog  but since then I&#8217;ve been surprised at how quickly those who buy into the defense spin are making the same mistake that the Duke leadership made and taking unsubstantiated opinions as fact.</p>
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		<title>By: midwesterntransport</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112307</link>
		<dc:creator>midwesterntransport</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 22:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112307</guid>
		<description>right on, amp.  the platonic rape victim fallacy is an excellent concept to describe the way that the burden of proof is often placed in the lap of people who have been deeply traumatized and who are expected behave like perfect angels.  if the survivor is a sex worker, or has substance issues, or is poor, or is...you know...HUMAN, they are assumed to be lying.

most sexual assaults/rapes occur between people who know each other, and often the perpetrator has far more social status than the survivor.

i've been trying to avoid most media representations of this case, and most blog postings about it because the comments sections reveal some really jacked individuals saying some deeply hurtful and offensive things.  but i appreciated your thoughts on the report.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>right on, amp.  the platonic rape victim fallacy is an excellent concept to describe the way that the burden of proof is often placed in the lap of people who have been deeply traumatized and who are expected behave like perfect angels.  if the survivor is a sex worker, or has substance issues, or is poor, or is&#8230;you know&#8230;HUMAN, they are assumed to be lying.</p>
<p>most sexual assaults/rapes occur between people who know each other, and often the perpetrator has far more social status than the survivor.</p>
<p>i&#8217;ve been trying to avoid most media representations of this case, and most blog postings about it because the comments sections reveal some really jacked individuals saying some deeply hurtful and offensive things.  but i appreciated your thoughts on the report.</p>
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		<title>By: Ampersand</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112305</link>
		<dc:creator>Ampersand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 21:46:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112305</guid>
		<description>Gee, thanks for the benefit of the doubt.

The title is badly thought out. My thought was that I wanted to put the phrases "duke rape" and "20 men" into the same blog title, so that people searching for info on this story will be able to find this blog entry. I also thought that the title, taken as a whole, implied that Mary Doe didn't lie. Obviously, that wasn't clear enough, considering how badly you misread it.

Keep in mind that for me, a lot of the purpose of "Alas" is to be a resource for feminists googling for evidence and arguments about these issues. The idea isn't to get your attention, Q Grrl, but to get Google's attention.

On the other hand, although I think you badly misread me (and in an unkind way), you have a legitimate point about the title of this post. I'll change the title to something that can't be misread.

&lt;em&gt;[Edited by Amp an hour later to remove excess snark. Sorry about that, Q Grrl.]&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gee, thanks for the benefit of the doubt.</p>
<p>The title is badly thought out. My thought was that I wanted to put the phrases &#8220;duke rape&#8221; and &#8220;20 men&#8221; into the same blog title, so that people searching for info on this story will be able to find this blog entry. I also thought that the title, taken as a whole, implied that Mary Doe didn&#8217;t lie. Obviously, that wasn&#8217;t clear enough, considering how badly you misread it.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that for me, a lot of the purpose of &#8220;Alas&#8221; is to be a resource for feminists googling for evidence and arguments about these issues. The idea isn&#8217;t to get your attention, Q Grrl, but to get Google&#8217;s attention.</p>
<p>On the other hand, although I think you badly misread me (and in an unkind way), you have a legitimate point about the title of this post. I&#8217;ll change the title to something that can&#8217;t be misread.</p>
<p><em>[Edited by Amp an hour later to remove excess snark. Sorry about that, Q Grrl.]</em></p>
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		<title>By: Q Grrl</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112302</link>
		<dc:creator>Q Grrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 21:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/05/10/duke-rape-victim-originally-said-she-was-raped-by-20-men-or-did-she/#comment-112302</guid>
		<description>ah, even you managed to do it too...  

Why aren't the captions about this story :   Durham Police may have misled Duke officials.

That's the gist of the story.  Why is even the best of intentions (Amp's) leading with the possibility that the woman lied?

Or maybe it's all for the titilation...  Tell me that's not what you were going for Amp?  To smear this woman's image just the teensiest bit to get people to read your thoughts?  Tell me why, after writing all that you did, you opened with the hook that this woman might be lying.  We're intelligent and curious people Amp.  You don't have to cast aspersions, not matter how eye catching, to get our attention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ah, even you managed to do it too&#8230;  </p>
<p>Why aren&#8217;t the captions about this story :   Durham Police may have misled Duke officials.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the gist of the story.  Why is even the best of intentions (Amp&#8217;s) leading with the possibility that the woman lied?</p>
<p>Or maybe it&#8217;s all for the titilation&#8230;  Tell me that&#8217;s not what you were going for Amp?  To smear this woman&#8217;s image just the teensiest bit to get people to read your thoughts?  Tell me why, after writing all that you did, you opened with the hook that this woman might be lying.  We&#8217;re intelligent and curious people Amp.  You don&#8217;t have to cast aspersions, not matter how eye catching, to get our attention.</p>
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