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	<title>Comments on: Rolling Stone Article: Was the 2004 Election Stolen?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/06/02/rolling-stone-article-was-the-2004-election-stolen/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/06/02/rolling-stone-article-was-the-2004-election-stolen/</link>
	<description>Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 00:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: ANono</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/06/02/rolling-stone-article-was-the-2004-election-stolen/#comment-131292</link>
		<dc:creator>ANono</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jun 2006 18:30:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/06/02/rolling-stone-article-was-the-2004-election-stolen/#comment-131292</guid>
		<description>There's a Salon article that refutes the Kennedy article, including one of the points discussed above (i.e., the article's theory that Democrats were less likely to talk to pollsters than Republicans).  The article is here: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/06/03/kennedy/index_np.html

Sample from the intro: "If you do read Kennedy's article, be prepared to machete your way through numerous errors of interpretation and his deliberate omission of key bits of data."

Also, Amp: Can you clear this up?  You refer to "complaints about Republican Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell, who used his position to try and prevent Democratic voters from voting. Here's an example cited in both articles (the quote is from the MJ article):"

Then you cite this example: "Take provisional ballots, which by law must be offered to any voter turned away at the polls (say, because the voter's name doesn't appear on registration rolls). Blackwell directed that a provisional ballot would count only if cast in the proper precinct...not just the proper county, as before."


OK, that rule might be too strict.  But who says that this had the effect (whether deliberate or unintentional) of "prevent[ing] Democratic voters from voting"?  Are Democratic voters especially likely to vote in the wrong precinct?  Does Kennedy present any evidence whatsoever that this measure had any effect on Democrats as opposed to Republican voters?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a Salon article that refutes the Kennedy article, including one of the points discussed above (i.e., the article&#8217;s theory that Democrats were less likely to talk to pollsters than Republicans).  The article is here: <a href="http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/06/03/kennedy/index_np.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/06/03/kennedy/index_np.html</a></p>
<p>Sample from the intro: &#8220;If you do read Kennedy&#8217;s article, be prepared to machete your way through numerous errors of interpretation and his deliberate omission of key bits of data.&#8221;</p>
<p>Also, Amp: Can you clear this up?  You refer to &#8220;complaints about Republican Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell, who used his position to try and prevent Democratic voters from voting. Here&#8217;s an example cited in both articles (the quote is from the MJ article):&#8221;</p>
<p>Then you cite this example: &#8220;Take provisional ballots, which by law must be offered to any voter turned away at the polls (say, because the voter&#8217;s name doesn&#8217;t appear on registration rolls). Blackwell directed that a provisional ballot would count only if cast in the proper precinct&#8230;not just the proper county, as before.&#8221;</p>
<p>OK, that rule might be too strict.  But who says that this had the effect (whether deliberate or unintentional) of &#8220;prevent[ing] Democratic voters from voting&#8221;?  Are Democratic voters especially likely to vote in the wrong precinct?  Does Kennedy present any evidence whatsoever that this measure had any effect on Democrats as opposed to Republican voters?</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/06/02/rolling-stone-article-was-the-2004-election-stolen/#comment-126282</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jun 2006 03:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/06/02/rolling-stone-article-was-the-2004-election-stolen/#comment-126282</guid>
		<description>Amp, this guy is on to the secret of blogging for billions! 

We have to take him out.

I'll alert our allies at Diebold.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amp, this guy is on to the secret of blogging for billions! </p>
<p>We have to take him out.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll alert our allies at Diebold.</p>
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		<title>By: Ampersand</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/06/02/rolling-stone-article-was-the-2004-election-stolen/#comment-126141</link>
		<dc:creator>Ampersand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jun 2006 03:28:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/06/02/rolling-stone-article-was-the-2004-election-stolen/#comment-126141</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Dude, this is weak. The Rolling Stone article totally puts to bed all this junk. So what if some damn Democrats are in on the conspiracy? It's still a freakin' conspiracy! Let's not be stupid and realize that the only way to clean up this mess is to demand change, from every level of society. And that includes well paid bloggers like yourself using this platform to spread the truth about the criminals presently squatting in the White House.

Please, for the love of God, tell everyone you know that this is proof, that Bush and his cronies have got to go! &lt;/blockquote&gt;

You know, the thing I most disagree with is "well paid." Where are you getting &lt;em&gt;that &lt;/em&gt;from?

As for the rest, I agree that bloggers can contribute by spreading the truth. However, regarding the specific question of if the 2004 election was stolen, the truth is I don't know what the truth is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Dude, this is weak. The Rolling Stone article totally puts to bed all this junk. So what if some damn Democrats are in on the conspiracy? It&#8217;s still a freakin&#8217; conspiracy! Let&#8217;s not be stupid and realize that the only way to clean up this mess is to demand change, from every level of society. And that includes well paid bloggers like yourself using this platform to spread the truth about the criminals presently squatting in the White House.</p>
<p>Please, for the love of God, tell everyone you know that this is proof, that Bush and his cronies have got to go! </p></blockquote>
<p>You know, the thing I most disagree with is &#8220;well paid.&#8221; Where are you getting <em>that </em>from?</p>
<p>As for the rest, I agree that bloggers can contribute by spreading the truth. However, regarding the specific question of if the 2004 election was stolen, the truth is I don&#8217;t know what the truth is.</p>
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		<title>By: Tahoma Activist</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/06/02/rolling-stone-article-was-the-2004-election-stolen/#comment-125898</link>
		<dc:creator>Tahoma Activist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jun 2006 00:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/06/02/rolling-stone-article-was-the-2004-election-stolen/#comment-125898</guid>
		<description>Dude, this is weak.  The Rolling Stone article totally puts to bed all this junk.  So what if some damn Democrats are in on the conspiracy?  It's still a freakin' conspiracy!  Let's not be stupid and realize that the only way to clean up this mess is to demand change, from every level of society.  And that includes well paid bloggers like yourself using this platform to spread the truth about the criminals presently squatting in the White House.

Please, for the love of God, tell everyone you know that this is proof, that Bush and his cronies have got to go!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dude, this is weak.  The Rolling Stone article totally puts to bed all this junk.  So what if some damn Democrats are in on the conspiracy?  It&#8217;s still a freakin&#8217; conspiracy!  Let&#8217;s not be stupid and realize that the only way to clean up this mess is to demand change, from every level of society.  And that includes well paid bloggers like yourself using this platform to spread the truth about the criminals presently squatting in the White House.</p>
<p>Please, for the love of God, tell everyone you know that this is proof, that Bush and his cronies have got to go!</p>
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		<title>By: Kiki</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/06/02/rolling-stone-article-was-the-2004-election-stolen/#comment-125868</link>
		<dc:creator>Kiki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jun 2006 22:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/06/02/rolling-stone-article-was-the-2004-election-stolen/#comment-125868</guid>
		<description>I find it astounding that it is or has ever been legal for the individual in charge of running  election processes not only to be formally affiliated with one or the other party but to actually be chairing the campaign of one of the candidates!!!!  How is this even possible?

I read in the "official" blog discussion of the RFK article linked from it that Blackwell is stalwartly refusing to step down from his position of chairing the elections even while he himself is running for Governor of the state of Ohio. Is this true? And if so, how on EARTH is it possible in a democracy for someone to chair an election when he himself is running in it?  Please enlighten an ignorant Canadian on the miracle of the US electoral system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it astounding that it is or has ever been legal for the individual in charge of running  election processes not only to be formally affiliated with one or the other party but to actually be chairing the campaign of one of the candidates!!!!  How is this even possible?</p>
<p>I read in the &#8220;official&#8221; blog discussion of the RFK article linked from it that Blackwell is stalwartly refusing to step down from his position of chairing the elections even while he himself is running for Governor of the state of Ohio. Is this true? And if so, how on EARTH is it possible in a democracy for someone to chair an election when he himself is running in it?  Please enlighten an ignorant Canadian on the miracle of the US electoral system.</p>
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		<title>By: wookie</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/06/02/rolling-stone-article-was-the-2004-election-stolen/#comment-125812</link>
		<dc:creator>wookie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jun 2006 19:46:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/06/02/rolling-stone-article-was-the-2004-election-stolen/#comment-125812</guid>
		<description>Can't we revert back to some kind of physical competition, like wild boar-wrestling, knife-fighting or something?  It seems it'd be a whole lot less complicated than "democracy".

I suppose to be fair we should have an intellectual and social part to the competiton, like making both contestants write a history essay, complete a entry level college mathematics exam, and review their social volunteering, donation and voting policies on domestic issues.

I am kidding, but only partially.  Wouldn't Captain James T. Kirk make a better president?  He can orate, make gunpowder from his surroudings, and kissed a black woman on TV, in an era that it was rather scandalous to do so.  I see this as an improvement over the previous election.

James T. Kirk for President!  Heck, Voldemort for President (credit to goats.com)!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can&#8217;t we revert back to some kind of physical competition, like wild boar-wrestling, knife-fighting or something?  It seems it&#8217;d be a whole lot less complicated than &#8220;democracy&#8221;.</p>
<p>I suppose to be fair we should have an intellectual and social part to the competiton, like making both contestants write a history essay, complete a entry level college mathematics exam, and review their social volunteering, donation and voting policies on domestic issues.</p>
<p>I am kidding, but only partially.  Wouldn&#8217;t Captain James T. Kirk make a better president?  He can orate, make gunpowder from his surroudings, and kissed a black woman on TV, in an era that it was rather scandalous to do so.  I see this as an improvement over the previous election.</p>
<p>James T. Kirk for President!  Heck, Voldemort for President (credit to <a href="http://goats.com" title="http://goats.com">goats.com</a>)!</p>
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		<title>By: Queer Dewd Formerly Known As ( )</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/06/02/rolling-stone-article-was-the-2004-election-stolen/#comment-264997</link>
		<dc:creator>Queer Dewd Formerly Known As ( )</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/06/02/rolling-stone-article-was-the-2004-election-stolen/#comment-264997</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt; Salon has an article up about the 2004 elections and Rober Kennedy’s argument that they were stolen. Ampersand also has anextensive post on the topic covering both sides. I agree with Amp when he says in comments that, to paraphrase, all he knows about the issue is that he doesn’t know if they were stolen or not. Was the 2004 election stolen? No.&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%--> Salon has an article up about the 2004 elections and Rober Kennedy’s argument that they were stolen. Ampersand also has anextensive post on the topic covering both sides. I agree with Amp when he says in comments that, to paraphrase, all he knows about the issue is that he doesn’t know if they were stolen or not. Was the 2004 election stolen? No.<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: feminist blogs</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/06/02/rolling-stone-article-was-the-2004-election-stolen/#comment-264998</link>
		<dc:creator>feminist blogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/06/02/rolling-stone-article-was-the-2004-election-stolen/#comment-264998</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;t for Republican dirty tricks (mostly aimed at preventing Black voters from voting) and other forms of cheating, John Kerry would have won Ohio in 2004 and thus, won the Presidential election - is sure refresh the rage a lot of lefites […]Continue reading at Alas, a blog … posted 3:28 pm at Alas, a blog&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%-->t for Republican dirty tricks (mostly aimed at preventing Black voters from voting) and other forms of cheating, John Kerry would have won Ohio in 2004 and thus, won the Presidential election - is sure refresh the rage a lot of lefites […]Continue reading at Alas, a blog … posted 3:28 pm at Alas, a blog<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: FeministBlogosphere</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/06/02/rolling-stone-article-was-the-2004-election-stolen/#comment-264999</link>
		<dc:creator>FeministBlogosphere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/06/02/rolling-stone-article-was-the-2004-election-stolen/#comment-264999</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;06/02 Anti Affirmative Action Cartoon On This Week’s New Yorker 06/02Rolling Stone Article: Was the 2004 Election Stolen?&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%-->06/02 Anti Affirmative Action Cartoon On This Week’s New Yorker 06/02Rolling Stone Article: Was the 2004 Election Stolen?<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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