Comments on: Ruth Rosen: The Hidden War On Women In Iraq http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/14/ruth-rosen-the-hidden-war-on-women-in-iraq/ Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about. Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:25:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: me http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/14/ruth-rosen-the-hidden-war-on-women-in-iraq/#comment-157314 me Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:02:12 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/14/ruth-rosen-the-hidden-war-on-women-in-iraq/#comment-157314 If this is deleted, so be it. A rapist is a rapist is a rapist. If there is an American soldier raping innocent Iraqis (and I do not doubt this story), then that is an American who will continue to find excuses to rape once he returns home. For a group of young American men to plan and carry out a rape party with military precision gives me the absolute creeps. I'm not looking forward to having these particular soldiers return home to American soil. Best thing for all concerned if they return in bodybags. If this is deleted, so be it.

A rapist is a rapist is a rapist. If there is an American soldier raping innocent Iraqis (and I do not doubt this story), then that is an American who will continue to find excuses to rape once he returns home.

For a group of young American men to plan and carry out a rape party with military precision gives me the absolute creeps.

I’m not looking forward to having these particular soldiers return home to American soil. Best thing for all concerned if they return in bodybags.

]]> By: Heart http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/14/ruth-rosen-the-hidden-war-on-women-in-iraq/#comment-155438 Heart Mon, 17 Jul 2006 02:25:13 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/14/ruth-rosen-the-hidden-war-on-women-in-iraq/#comment-155438 You're in my head, ginmar, that's just what I've been thinking about today. I was looking at that photo of Iraqi women soldiers that I posted to my website and thinking to myself, is there some good <i>reason</i> this kind of photo barely ever made it, or makes it, into Western media and all we ever see, if that's the only place we look, is veiled women? Even the photo of the Kurd woman holding a gun and smoking a cigarette: we don't see that kind of photo of Iraqi women. They have to be othered into oblivion to justify what the hell we're doing over there, made to be Not. Like. Us. and therefore deserving of whatever happens to them. Heart You’re in my head, ginmar, that’s just what I’ve been thinking about today. I was looking at that photo of Iraqi women soldiers that I posted to my website and thinking to myself, is there some good reason this kind of photo barely ever made it, or makes it, into Western media and all we ever see, if that’s the only place we look, is veiled women? Even the photo of the Kurd woman holding a gun and smoking a cigarette: we don’t see that kind of photo of Iraqi women. They have to be othered into oblivion to justify what the hell we’re doing over there, made to be Not. Like. Us. and therefore deserving of whatever happens to them.

Heart

]]> By: ginmar http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/14/ruth-rosen-the-hidden-war-on-women-in-iraq/#comment-155339 ginmar Mon, 17 Jul 2006 00:26:36 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/14/ruth-rosen-the-hidden-war-on-women-in-iraq/#comment-155339 I keep running into the most awful justifications for the war in Iraq that are based on willfull ignorance. I've had people tell me that it was just awful for Iraqi women before hand, but <i>now</i> it's better. They have to believe that, or they're assholes. Unfortunately, well, they're assholes. These women didn't wear veils, worked alongside men, and enjoyed public life. Now they simply don't. And it's our fault. I keep running into the most awful justifications for the war in Iraq that are based on willfull ignorance. I’ve had people tell me that it was just awful for Iraqi women before hand, but now it’s better. They have to believe that, or they’re assholes. Unfortunately, well, they’re assholes. These women didn’t wear veils, worked alongside men, and enjoyed public life. Now they simply don’t. And it’s our fault.

]]> By: belledame222 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/14/ruth-rosen-the-hidden-war-on-women-in-iraq/#comment-154226 belledame222 Sun, 16 Jul 2006 03:34:01 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/14/ruth-rosen-the-hidden-war-on-women-in-iraq/#comment-154226 *deep sigh* I wonder how many American women who think this was such a great, liberating thing for those poor suffering (exotic, Other) Iraqi women know anything about this? or if they've ever considered how they'd like it if they were "liberated" through bombs and gunfire and chaos and wounded and killed loved ones, and then in the aftermath the Christian fundamentalists started going around harassing/threatening/hurting anyone wearing pants, revealing clothing, "living in sin," out alone after dark (or at all)... but hey. "It can't happen here." *deep sigh*

I wonder how many American women who think this was such a great, liberating thing for those poor suffering (exotic, Other) Iraqi women know anything about this?

or if they’ve ever considered how they’d like it if they were “liberated” through bombs and gunfire and chaos and wounded and killed loved ones, and then in the aftermath the Christian fundamentalists started going around harassing/threatening/hurting anyone wearing pants, revealing clothing, “living in sin,” out alone after dark (or at all)…

but hey. “It can’t happen here.”

]]> By: ginmar http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/14/ruth-rosen-the-hidden-war-on-women-in-iraq/#comment-153756 ginmar Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:16:08 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/14/ruth-rosen-the-hidden-war-on-women-in-iraq/#comment-153756 oh, I don't believe for one moment the rape and murder was planned. Not for one second. I believe that everybody looked the other way and then tried to cover it up and minimize it, though. The fact is, we got lectures about how upholding human rights of the Iraqis, and these guys violated it the first day they harassed that girl. Their other soldiers didn't care enough to report it or faced either an indifferent or hostile command. But the actual crime was not planned by the army. Please don't go there. It's like saying Bush was behind 9/11. oh, I don’t believe for one moment the rape and murder was planned. Not for one second. I believe that everybody looked the other way and then tried to cover it up and minimize it, though. The fact is, we got lectures about how upholding human rights of the Iraqis, and these guys violated it the first day they harassed that girl. Their other soldiers didn’t care enough to report it or faced either an indifferent or hostile command. But the actual crime was not planned by the army. Please don’t go there. It’s like saying Bush was behind 9/11.

]]> By: Heart http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/14/ruth-rosen-the-hidden-war-on-women-in-iraq/#comment-153719 Heart Sat, 15 Jul 2006 17:37:24 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/14/ruth-rosen-the-hidden-war-on-women-in-iraq/#comment-153719 ginmar, all of the neighbors of this family knew what had happened. They saw the soldiers storm the place, then a few hours later a bunch more soldiers came, cordoned the place off, and announced that this was the work of Sunni insurgents because the family was Shi'ah. Neighbors, again, knew this was wrong, because they knew the family was Sunni and highly-respected in the Sunni community. In the interviews with neighbors and others that I read, or the reports in blogs and articles from Iraq and the Middle East, the neighbors were afraid to say anything about this to anybody-- understandably so. There they were, being "guarded" by the perps! To them it looked like something the U.S. planned, carried out and covered up. Some have speculated that this was a psy-op, planned by military leaders ahead of time, and honestly, that's what it <i>does</i> look like. This happened back in March. Jeremy Green was sent home three weeks before the news of the rape broke, described as a danger to civilians. Then the two Americans were killed and mutilated, and finally then two guys who knew about it talked to a counselor. If they had never talked to the counselor, probably nobody would have ever paid any attention to this-- it would have been dismissed as the work of "insurgents," which was the official story, even though all of the neighbors knew that wasn't true. But what are you going to do when you are surrounded by American military with guns, behaving as they have been behaving? Who are you going to report this to? The one courageous neighbor who gave the eyewitness testimony, really did try to get the word out. Here is his eyewitness testimony: <i>After three hours the [American] occupation troops surrounded the house and told the people of the area that the family had been killed by terrorists because they were Shi’ah. Nobody in town believed that story because Abu ‘Abir was known as one of the best people of the city, one of the noblest, and no Shi’i, but a Sunni monotheist.<b> Everyone doubted their story and so after the sunset prayers the occupation troops took the four bodies away to the American base. Then the next day they handed them over to the al-Mahmudiyah government hospital and told the hospital administration that terrorists had killed the family. That morning I went with relatives of the deceased to the hospital. We received the bodies and buried them, may God have mercy on them.</b>” The neighbor went on: <b>“Then we decided that we must not be silent so we asked the mujahideen to respond as quickly as possible. </b>They responded with 30 attacks on the occupation in two days, bringing down more than 40 American soldiers. But our blood was still not cooled, so <b>we decided to go to al-’Arabiyah satellite TV to tell them the story since it is a station that broadcasts in Iraq. But al-’Arabiyah paid no attention to us and said we were liars. They told us that their policy was to rely on official announcements issued by the American army</b>, and that they were not able to get into a story over which they had no power. <b>This was told to us by the al-’Arabiyah correspondent Ahmad as-Salih. So we went to local newspapers and they slammed the doors in our faces because we are Sunnis and the rape victim was a Sunni girl. But the Resistance fighters told us that God does not allow the blood of any Muslim to be lost, and they told us to patiently persevere and we would see such a punishment for the blood of ‘Abir and her family, for the violation of the honor of our sister, a punishment that would make people’s hair stand on end </b></i> It just looks to me like it is possible this was planned, ordered, and covered up. And those involved could so get away with this, because they control the local television stations, they cannot be criminally prosecuted, they have ALL of the power. ALL. Some have said the mutliation murders of U.S. troops were not really in retaliation, but I think they were, based on the last sentence of the neighbor's account. This happened, it looks like to me it was covered up, the news media wouldn't report it, so insurgents dealt with the situation. Only then did the two troops talk to the counselors, only then was Green sent home. Heart ginmar, all of the neighbors of this family knew what had happened. They saw the soldiers storm the place, then a few hours later a bunch more soldiers came, cordoned the place off, and announced that this was the work of Sunni insurgents because the family was Shi’ah. Neighbors, again, knew this was wrong, because they knew the family was Sunni and highly-respected in the Sunni community. In the interviews with neighbors and others that I read, or the reports in blogs and articles from Iraq and the Middle East, the neighbors were afraid to say anything about this to anybody– understandably so. There they were, being “guarded” by the perps! To them it looked like something the U.S. planned, carried out and covered up. Some have speculated that this was a psy-op, planned by military leaders ahead of time, and honestly, that’s what it does look like. This happened back in March. Jeremy Green was sent home three weeks before the news of the rape broke, described as a danger to civilians. Then the two Americans were killed and mutilated, and finally then two guys who knew about it talked to a counselor. If they had never talked to the counselor, probably nobody would have ever paid any attention to this– it would have been dismissed as the work of “insurgents,” which was the official story, even though all of the neighbors knew that wasn’t true. But what are you going to do when you are surrounded by American military with guns, behaving as they have been behaving? Who are you going to report this to?

The one courageous neighbor who gave the eyewitness testimony, really did try to get the word out. Here is his eyewitness testimony:

After three hours the [American] occupation troops surrounded the house and told the people of the area that the family had been killed by terrorists because they were Shi’ah. Nobody in town believed that story because Abu ‘Abir was known as one of the best people of the city, one of the noblest, and no Shi’i, but a Sunni monotheist. Everyone doubted their story and so after the sunset prayers the occupation troops took the four bodies away to the American base. Then the next day they handed them over to the al-Mahmudiyah government hospital and told the hospital administration that terrorists had killed the family. That morning I went with relatives of the deceased to the hospital. We received the bodies and buried them, may God have mercy on them.”

The neighbor went on: “Then we decided that we must not be silent so we asked the mujahideen to respond as quickly as possible. They responded with 30 attacks on the occupation in two days, bringing down more than 40 American soldiers. But our blood was still not cooled, so we decided to go to al-’Arabiyah satellite TV to tell them the story since it is a station that broadcasts in Iraq. But al-’Arabiyah paid no attention to us and said we were liars. They told us that their policy was to rely on official announcements issued by the American army, and that they were not able to get into a story over which they had no power. This was told to us by the al-’Arabiyah correspondent Ahmad as-Salih. So we went to local newspapers and they slammed the doors in our faces because we are Sunnis and the rape victim was a Sunni girl. But the Resistance fighters told us that God does not allow the blood of any Muslim to be lost, and they told us to patiently persevere and we would see such a punishment for the blood of ‘Abir and her family, for the violation of the honor of our sister, a punishment that would make people’s hair stand on end

It just looks to me like it is possible this was planned, ordered, and covered up. And those involved could so get away with this, because they control the local television stations, they cannot be criminally prosecuted, they have ALL of the power. ALL. Some have said the mutliation murders of U.S. troops were not really in retaliation, but I think they were, based on the last sentence of the neighbor’s account. This happened, it looks like to me it was covered up, the news media wouldn’t report it, so insurgents dealt with the situation. Only then did the two troops talk to the counselors, only then was Green sent home.

Heart

]]> By: ginmar http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/14/ruth-rosen-the-hidden-war-on-women-in-iraq/#comment-153684 ginmar Sat, 15 Jul 2006 16:34:57 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/14/ruth-rosen-the-hidden-war-on-women-in-iraq/#comment-153684 You know, if we were doing anything effective over there, we should have known about this crime, or we should have known about these guys planning this. The insurgents should not have known before we did. That's just a commentary on how badly-executed this has been. These guys should not have been allowed to so much as harass her for one day. That's what I cadn't get over. It shouldn't have even gotten that far! You know, if we were doing anything effective over there, we should have known about this crime, or we should have known about these guys planning this. The insurgents should not have known before we did. That’s just a commentary on how badly-executed this has been.

These guys should not have been allowed to so much as harass her for one day. That’s what I cadn’t get over. It shouldn’t have even gotten that far!

]]> By: Women's Space/The Margins http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/14/ruth-rosen-the-hidden-war-on-women-in-iraq/#comment-153678 Women's Space/The Margins Sat, 15 Jul 2006 16:26:28 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/14/ruth-rosen-the-hidden-war-on-women-in-iraq/#comment-153678 <strong>As With ‘Abir Hamzah, So With Iraq</strong> Abeer’s rape and murder mirrors the fate of the nation of her birth. Her attackers stalked her, watching her house for a week before launching their offensive. In the minds of many, this is synonymous with preparations for the invasion of Iraq it... As With ‘Abir Hamzah, So With Iraq

Abeer’s rape and murder mirrors the fate of the nation of her birth. Her attackers stalked her, watching her house for a week before launching their offensive. In the minds of many, this is synonymous with preparations for the invasion of Iraq it…

]]> By: Tennessee Guerilla Women http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/14/ruth-rosen-the-hidden-war-on-women-in-iraq/#comment-270480 Tennessee Guerilla Women Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/14/ruth-rosen-the-hidden-war-on-women-in-iraq/#comment-270480 <!--%kramer-pre%-->From the sound of it, Kleinheider may well have his own love affair with the Confederacy, but that's another post. And speaking of shrill women, don't forget that August 26th is Equality Day. Finally, Ampersand gets to have the last word on shrill: "Why does anyone with a working brain think “shrill” is a legitimate critique of anything?" Feminism Gender Politics George Allen Race Republicans Racism News<!--%kramer-post%--> From the sound of it, Kleinheider may well have his own love affair with the Confederacy, but that’s another post. And speaking of shrill women, don’t forget that August 26th is Equality Day. Finally, Ampersand gets to have the last word on shrill: “Why does anyone with a working brain think “shrill” is a legitimate critique of anything?” Feminism Gender Politics George Allen Race Republicans Racism News

]]> By: IrrationalPoint's Soapbox http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/14/ruth-rosen-the-hidden-war-on-women-in-iraq/#comment-270481 IrrationalPoint's Soapbox Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/14/ruth-rosen-the-hidden-war-on-women-in-iraq/#comment-270481 <!--%kramer-pre%-->about what that means. Safety is also a human right. What has the invasion improved for Iraqi people? What is the continuing presence of the troops doing in Iraq? It's so easy for me to spout my regrets. I'm not being bombed or shot at, after all. Amp asks where pro-war Americans are honestly addressing the living conditions for Iraqi civilians. This is the best I can do. --IP Technorati tag: Iraq <!--%kramer-post%--> about what that means. Safety is also a human right. What has the invasion improved for Iraqi people? What is the continuing presence of the troops doing in Iraq? It’s so easy for me to spout my regrets. I’m not being bombed or shot at, after all. Amp asks where pro-war Americans are honestly addressing the living conditions for Iraqi civilians. This is the best I can do. –IP Technorati tag: Iraq

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