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	<title>Comments on: Climate Change Is Morally Repugnant</title>
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	<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/27/climate-change-is-morally-repugnant/</link>
	<description>Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/27/climate-change-is-morally-repugnant/#comment-165689</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jul 2006 17:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/27/climate-change-is-morally-repugnant/#comment-165689</guid>
		<description>Robert I can see your thinking but the way to prove your thesis is to tease out those methods that are green but don't support the other agendas.  For instance using green technology on existing industry where it benifts the industry as much as the environment.   
In most cases I believe youb will see the love affair is most passionate with those techniques that are most harmful to making a profit in a capatalist society.   Nuclear Power (when not regulated by nitwits or Anti-nuclear partisans).  Look for the economic impact related to the method chosen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert I can see your thinking but the way to prove your thesis is to tease out those methods that are green but don&#8217;t support the other agendas.  For instance using green technology on existing industry where it benifts the industry as much as the environment.<br />
In most cases I believe youb will see the love affair is most passionate with those techniques that are most harmful to making a profit in a capatalist society.   Nuclear Power (when not regulated by nitwits or Anti-nuclear partisans).  Look for the economic impact related to the method chosen.</p>
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		<title>By: Arwen</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/27/climate-change-is-morally-repugnant/#comment-165507</link>
		<dc:creator>Arwen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jul 2006 07:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/27/climate-change-is-morally-repugnant/#comment-165507</guid>
		<description>All you need for moral repugnance is a grabby hook.

Starving polar bears have changed some minds that were otherwise occupied. I was on a bus yesterday and heard the kids a chattering about how "gross" those "flabby bastards" were to let the polar bears starve. I'm a huge eavesdropper. My sense, perhaps unfair, of these particular teenagers was that caring one way or the other was a relatively new experience.

Anyway, I'd have to disagree with you, Richard. I decide with simple risk analysis. I have absolutely no other reason to want us to move to greener technologies other than climate change:

If the (vast majority) of scientists are right, but we do nothing, then my kids will live in a hot, fried world where biodiversity is compromised and my grandchildren will be facing an uphill battle with the survival of the fittest.
If the (vast majority) of scientists are wrong, but we do everything in our power to reduce CO2 anyway, then all we've done is switched economic drivers. Maybe even out of the Mid-East. But I don't really give a r*t's ass.

Frankly, the fact that nations change economic engines is something we've done historically with discomfort, but relative aplomb. We need farmers to feed us all, and shelter makers, and everything above and beyond that is detail that we switch around through culture and time. So I have no doubt we have the ability to cope with economic readjustment.

On the other hand, if our food sources are compromised, we're dead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All you need for moral repugnance is a grabby hook.</p>
<p>Starving polar bears have changed some minds that were otherwise occupied. I was on a bus yesterday and heard the kids a chattering about how &#8220;gross&#8221; those &#8220;flabby bastards&#8221; were to let the polar bears starve. I&#8217;m a huge eavesdropper. My sense, perhaps unfair, of these particular teenagers was that caring one way or the other was a relatively new experience.</p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;d have to disagree with you, Richard. I decide with simple risk analysis. I have absolutely no other reason to want us to move to greener technologies other than climate change:</p>
<p>If the (vast majority) of scientists are right, but we do nothing, then my kids will live in a hot, fried world where biodiversity is compromised and my grandchildren will be facing an uphill battle with the survival of the fittest.<br />
If the (vast majority) of scientists are wrong, but we do everything in our power to reduce CO2 anyway, then all we&#8217;ve done is switched economic drivers. Maybe even out of the Mid-East. But I don&#8217;t really give a r*t&#8217;s ass.</p>
<p>Frankly, the fact that nations change economic engines is something we&#8217;ve done historically with discomfort, but relative aplomb. We need farmers to feed us all, and shelter makers, and everything above and beyond that is detail that we switch around through culture and time. So I have no doubt we have the ability to cope with economic readjustment.</p>
<p>On the other hand, if our food sources are compromised, we&#8217;re dead.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/27/climate-change-is-morally-repugnant/#comment-164496</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 20:06:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/27/climate-change-is-morally-repugnant/#comment-164496</guid>
		<description>Robert,

I think Stentor's theory is much more useful than your's for explaining climate change theory preference, although I think for many people the moral repugnance comes from the potential degree of harm, rather than a hatred of modern industrial society per se (I don't think Al Gore hates modern industrial society). While it is true that many people attempt to piggy back their own societal preferences on to whatever they advocate for, the steps necessary to hugely ameliorate climate change are not ones that will bring about a eco-socialist utopia (and it is hard to argue that Chancellor Merkel is going to continue the Germany policies to reduce CO2 output because she hopes for a eco-socialist utopia).

If Gore had not been a huge supporter of Kyoto (fighting hard to water it down enough that he thought there was any chance of it being ratified in the US, more fool him), he would probably be president now  (or more likely have lost the 2004 election, after having been blamed for not preventing 9/11). Furthermore, his change in emphasis from Bushian malignance and incompetence to climate change is probaly less likely to get him into office, or keep him politically significant. Had he gone directly from failed presidential candidate to climate change advocate, his political visibility would be much less than it is today. I would guess that he is actually spending political capital on climate change issues.

So what does Stentor's theory say about your side (and why am I unsurprised you are a climate change sceptic)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert,</p>
<p>I think Stentor&#8217;s theory is much more useful than your&#8217;s for explaining climate change theory preference, although I think for many people the moral repugnance comes from the potential degree of harm, rather than a hatred of modern industrial society per se (I don&#8217;t think Al Gore hates modern industrial society). While it is true that many people attempt to piggy back their own societal preferences on to whatever they advocate for, the steps necessary to hugely ameliorate climate change are not ones that will bring about a eco-socialist utopia (and it is hard to argue that Chancellor Merkel is going to continue the Germany policies to reduce CO2 output because she hopes for a eco-socialist utopia).</p>
<p>If Gore had not been a huge supporter of Kyoto (fighting hard to water it down enough that he thought there was any chance of it being ratified in the US, more fool him), he would probably be president now  (or more likely have lost the 2004 election, after having been blamed for not preventing 9/11). Furthermore, his change in emphasis from Bushian malignance and incompetence to climate change is probaly less likely to get him into office, or keep him politically significant. Had he gone directly from failed presidential candidate to climate change advocate, his political visibility would be much less than it is today. I would guess that he is actually spending political capital on climate change issues.</p>
<p>So what does Stentor&#8217;s theory say about your side (and why am I unsurprised you are a climate change sceptic)?</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/27/climate-change-is-morally-repugnant/#comment-164425</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/27/climate-change-is-morally-repugnant/#comment-164425</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I guess that's not my best writing ever. (Note to self: coffee first.)

We don't need a new theory to explain the actions of people who believe in a climate change crisis. Their actions are easily understood because they have something to gain if their view becomes prevalent. Al Gore gets to be President (or at least gets to be an influential person). Greens get to have a more eco-socialist economy. And so forth.

Whereas this theory does give us something new vis a vis people who are climate change skeptics (hey, that's me).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I guess that&#8217;s not my best writing ever. (Note to self: coffee first.)</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t need a new theory to explain the actions of people who believe in a climate change crisis. Their actions are easily understood because they have something to gain if their view becomes prevalent. Al Gore gets to be President (or at least gets to be an influential person). Greens get to have a more eco-socialist economy. And so forth.</p>
<p>Whereas this theory does give us something new vis a vis people who are climate change skeptics (hey, that&#8217;s me).</p>
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		<title>By: Q Grrl</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/27/climate-change-is-morally-repugnant/#comment-164417</link>
		<dc:creator>Q Grrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/27/climate-change-is-morally-repugnant/#comment-164417</guid>
		<description>I actually think I agree with you Robert; but I had to re-read your posts a couple of times.  Can you rephrase?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually think I agree with you Robert; but I had to re-read your posts a couple of times.  Can you rephrase?</p>
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		<title>By: Jake Squid</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/27/climate-change-is-morally-repugnant/#comment-164389</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake Squid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/27/climate-change-is-morally-repugnant/#comment-164389</guid>
		<description>Robert, chicken or egg?  Plus you can make the same statement for climate change deniers.  Essentially, that is a meaningless statement.  And that is aside from whether or not it is actually true and ignores the fact that there is a preponderance of evidence regarding climate change that has overwhelming support from the scientific community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert, chicken or egg?  Plus you can make the same statement for climate change deniers.  Essentially, that is a meaningless statement.  And that is aside from whether or not it is actually true and ignores the fact that there is a preponderance of evidence regarding climate change that has overwhelming support from the scientific community.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/27/climate-change-is-morally-repugnant/#comment-164384</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:48:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/27/climate-change-is-morally-repugnant/#comment-164384</guid>
		<description>The actions of the people who are in arms about climate change can be explained outside of the thesis. Everyone I've ever heard evangelizing on climate change issues has another agenda which would potentially be advanced by an acceptance of what climate change believers say is true (usually some economic policy or other).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The actions of the people who are in arms about climate change can be explained outside of the thesis. Everyone I&#8217;ve ever heard evangelizing on climate change issues has another agenda which would potentially be advanced by an acceptance of what climate change believers say is true (usually some economic policy or other).</p>
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		<title>By: Q Grrl</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/27/climate-change-is-morally-repugnant/#comment-164357</link>
		<dc:creator>Q Grrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/27/climate-change-is-morally-repugnant/#comment-164357</guid>
		<description>Way to introduce moralism into the issue!  I'm sure you missed the irony of the energy consumption you used to type, post, and maintain your screed.

You shameless immoral slug you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Way to introduce moralism into the issue!  I&#8217;m sure you missed the irony of the energy consumption you used to type, post, and maintain your screed.</p>
<p>You shameless immoral slug you!</p>
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		<title>By: feminist blogs</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/27/climate-change-is-morally-repugnant/#comment-268324</link>
		<dc:creator>feminist blogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/07/27/climate-change-is-morally-repugnant/#comment-268324</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;by Daniel Gilbert about climate change. Gilbert argues that people aren’t concerned about climate change, because people all have certain evolved cognitive biases. The problem is that it’s not “people” who are unconcerned about climate […]  Continue reading at Alas, a blog …    posted 5:33 am at Alas, a blog &lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%-->by Daniel Gilbert about climate change. Gilbert argues that people aren’t concerned about climate change, because people all have certain evolved cognitive biases. The problem is that it’s not “people” who are unconcerned about climate […]  Continue reading at Alas, a blog …    posted 5:33 am at Alas, a blog <!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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