Oooooh, I LIKE that one! Amp, I think that’s the answer you were looking for as to how to let girls be princesses yet still accept traits within themselves that society sees as “male!” Since around puberty the way preteens & teens classify, critique, accept, & reject people of the opposite sex makes a louder statement to their peers than the way they classify, critique, accept, & reject people of the same sex (after all, heterodating is “IMPORTANT!”), I’d put this idea at the top of my list.

Amen.

dude. seriously, did he SAY anything about porn? at all?

“Purge your male-supremacist mindset!”

yes indeedy. i recommend Clorox.

anyway, what everyone else said wrt: don’t sweat it.

My mom deliberately did not want to dress me in pink, painted my first childhood room yellow (it was the seventies, bless her). first chance i got i demanded a PINK room (when we moved), and i went through a period of only wanting to wear skirts.

this is not a phase that has particularly lasted into my adulthood, i will report.

My partner and I strongly believe in the value of gender neutral child rearing, feminism, social justice so on and so forth, but feel isolated in our beliefs here. So here’s the rub. How does one foster the social enforcement of these values, especially a strong feminist perspective, in a child when the surrounding culture is grossly sexist and racist?

Suggestions or thoughts anyone…please??

As a parent of a six-year-old boy, I’m coming from a slightly different angle, but, well, yeah. Pretty princess dresses *are* cool. Hot pink and purple and glitter *are* attractive, and decorating yourself -nail polish, jewel stickers, make-up - can be thrilling. Even when I was a kid boys had opportunities to play dress up, and even within the roles acceptable for their gender there was lots of room for exploration (pirates and indians in particular allowed for a certain degree of flamboyance and self-decoration; cowboys, not so much). Still, as a girl, I knew I had the good stuff with the sequined swirl skirts and old velvet ladies’ hats and gloves and beaded shawls….

I’ve stocked my son’s dress-ups basket with some big squares of satin fabric that can be capes for superheroes, wizards, or knights; they’ve been turned into dresses and skirts and magical doorways and baby slings as well. Temp tatoos and face paint are totally acceptable for boys to play with now (at least where I live) so that kind of play seems less gender-oriented than I remember as a kid. (It’s not even as kid-oriented these days - adults having elaborate Halloween costumes, for example.)

Everyday clothes are a bit more problematic. With the excecption of a single token Spiderman shirt, we don’t get “licensed character” clothing at all, leaving us with a choice of quasi-military (tanks! guns! camo prints!), he-man sports (football!), or ugly (orange! orange! orange!). Well, I’m exaggerating a bit, but finding fun everyday clothes for a little boy is hard, especially if his favorite color is pink. (And yes, I realize this is entirely *my* hangup, not his; he’s be happy to wear a pink sequined Disney Princess tee shirt to school, but even in our rather progressive community I think that would get him in trouble socially with the other kids.)

Well, what I *really* wanted to comment on.

I’ve been thinking lately about the implications of our natural inclination, when a group of kids needs to be divided arbitrarily, to do it along the gender line. For example, in kindergarten, boys have show-and-tell one week, girls the next. In swim class, when the instructor wanted to do a competition he divides the class into boys vs. girls. When two lines need to be formed - boys in one line, girls in the other. (And I’m not even getting into the restroom issue!).

Why does this bother me? I know there are bigger issues out there, but I can’t help but think about how, aside from any differing expectations for behaviour or ability from the two groups (which in the examples above were manifestly *not* the reason for the division)- the simple act of defining the two groups by gender has an effect on the children’s perception of themselves and of others. Maybe.

Anyway, last year when my son realized that he wouldn’t get to go to a birthday party for a classmate because she was only inviting the girls he was a bit upset. As a parent, I see the wisdom of limiting the guest list, but it was hard to explain the “girls not boys” part to a child who has always had very close friends of both genders. He just felt left out, period.

As a matter of school policy, party invitations can be distributed at school only if everyone in the class is invited *or* if the invitations go out to just all the girls or just all the boys… the idea that no one feels left out, and I think it is a wise policy, but the underlying assumption that the boys will be necessarily better friends with boys, and girls with girls, and that it is ok to exclude the others based on the gender, well, it does bother me somewhere deep down.

It’s not an issue of fairness, more one of perception. But still.

I’ve watched my step-daughter go through wearing ONLY pink or dresses, preferably both, and resisting pants with alarming vehemence in 2 degree weather, to refusing to wear a dress under any circumstances, and wearing almost exclusively BLUE (rejecting pink with as much energy as she formerly sought it) to wearing clothes that I thought were entirely too sexy for an 11 year old, to wearing clothes that I think belong in PE locker rooms, but not in restaurants (sweats etc.).

They try different things. This is a good thing. It lets them learn their OWN styles.
Don’t spend so much energy making sure they’re not gender stereotyped that they can’t be themselves.

Vivi Bene, Ridi spesso, e` Ama Molto!

(Live well, laugh often, and love much)

I don’t see girls being complimented for being strong and smart as often as boys are.

Sailorman, a bit of background on why I said that you should praise them for their abilities more than behaviour. Growing up, my father always praised me for working hard whenever I achieved something. All through school I had a very low opinion of my intelligence even though I was almost always topping my class. It was only much later, during my Ph.D. in fact, that I learned to have confidence in my *abilities*, rather than just attributing my success to *effort*.

I see the same thing happening with my niece. She has a genius level IQ and is extremely talented, but all the praise she gets from her parents is for being a teacher’s pet, for being such a “good girl”. I hope it doesn’t undermine her confidence in her abilities.

It is very nice to have the small bits of practical information, like “don’t sweat the pink tutus,” as well as the longer bits of more existential information. Before, I had felt like everything I was reading was either all about the theory (but didn’t answer the question “what about the tutus?”) or was all about the evils of television without touching on any theoretical stuff. This thread is a great mix.

I appreciate all the responses. I’ll probably try to summarize what I’m getting out of this in a future post on my blog, and will link a followup to Amp if he’s interested.

I disagree with Kali in #30. I think children should be loved as who they are, but should be praised for what they do. This is one of the big differences between the compliments boys and girls get; boys are complimented for their achievements (doing, learning) while girls are complimented for their endowments (pretty, strong, smart). Learning that what you do–not what you have and can’t change–matters to people gives children much better self-image.

I am a very strong feminist and I have been calling myself that since the 8th grade. I’ve BEEN a feminist since the 4th grade when I understood my personal stance on abortion. I did all this while growing up with possibly the most male chauvenistic/misogynistic father one can have. In my house, “traditional” gender roles were dominant. My mom always worked, but she also did the 2nd and 3rd shift. The big question as soon as she got home from work was, “what will I make for dinner to feed your father.” I played dress up and house (I used to stuff baby blankets up my shirt to pretend I was pregnant and then have the baby and play mommy), I had tons of Barbie stuff… I had all the wrong home influences in some ways, and I still turned out ok. I guess my main point is, don’t sweat the small stuff.

Some practical advice:
1) Encourage your children to be outspoken, and self assurred. My mom ALWAYS listened to us as thought what we had to say was important. She never patronized me or made me feel like I didn’t know what I was talking about because I was a kid. As a result, I once told my principal how he could better deal with snow removal and the waiting for buses in the afternoon at school. I was 6 years old, spoke directly to him about the mounds of snow that the plow would dump onto the space between the sidewalk and driveway of the schoolyard and how it didn’t make any sense to plow it if we all had to trek through a 3 foot mound to get TO the bus. The next day, there was shoveled cuts in the mounds of snow. I didn’t think twice about being intimidated by a grown up/person in authority and that is because my mother always listened to what I had to say. She loved to tell that story about how her 6 year old baby walked right up to the principal of the school and told him what to do and he did it.

2) Make certain your daughters have lots of different female role models in their lives (and I agree with Amp about being certain to say it’s ok to be around “feminine” men too). My mom was a dietician in a Catholic Hospital at a time when the nuns ran everything. She worked in an environment that was almost all women, and ALL of the authority figures at work were women. She frequently brought us to things like the Holiday parties and summer ice cream socials, we were used to seeing women in power - that was normal to us, and my mom always swore that was the reason she had 4 such strong, independent daughters.

3) I actually don’t think it’s necessary to cut kids off from the gender toxicity in the world. I almost think you might be doing them more harm, since when they hit reality they won’t have any way to deal with it. I agree with the other posters about letting kids play dress up and be frilly, nothing wrong with being feminine, particularly at younger ages when they are just exploring. Sure expose your kids to all kinds of things, encourage activities, etc, but I really think the most critical time in a girl’s development is middle school and early high school. This is a time when you should be talking with your kids about what’s wrong with barbie, why it’s not ok for the skinny quiet guy in class to get picked on etc. parents have NO idea what goes on in middle school. Now is the time to watch the crappy lifetime movies with woman as victim motifs about rape and domestic violence etc and talk about what’s wrong with it and what’s good about the movies. NEVER underestimate the amount your kids understand. Parents are totally clueless about the crap that happens in middle schools (even nice, upper middle class suburbs with great school systems) I had borderline eating disorders (no surprise), knew at least 2 girls who had attempted suicide (sorta) more than once and who definitely employed cutting and other self depracating behaviors, girls who were sexually active and abused by boyfriends, etc. No one’s parents knew, and I never thought to go to my mom with any of it. I think if you are dialoging with your 13 year old about real world issues they might be more likely to come to you with some of the real life problems they are involved in. Never treat them like they are JUST 13, they need to feel respected and as though what they think about the world matters. I can’t tell you how critical that is. I also highly reccommend getting them involved in some sort of community action. This is a time when they first discover the world around them and that it’s kind of a shithole sometimes, give them a way to feel like they CAN make a difference. recycling clubs, volunteering at a homeless shelter, etc.

4) If your kids are into fairytales, buy If I Were in Charge of the World and Other Worries by Judith Viorst (The author of Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day, another must have). It’s a great little collection of childrens poems and it has some of the best alternate fairy tale poems I’ve ever read to this day… as in the little Mermaid who basically realizes she got screwed and the prince is living with the witch, and that sucks and she should have worried less about changing herself to please him and more about being who she was, just go buy it right now. I still have it and read it myself…

READ WHAT YOUR CHILDREN READ - obviously, you do that when they are young, but this is CRITICAL when they are pre-teen/young adult… GREAT authors include: Judy Blume, Roald Dahl, the person who wrote the Anastasia Krupnik series (those are AMAZING little feminist books)… Madeline L’Engle, I’m sure there are more, but I can’t stress to enough to READ WHAT THEY READ, you gotta have a way in.

I’m actually not anti TV. I’m kinda a TV junkie in fact. I’m trying to make sure my kid doesn’t watch as MUCH TV as I do, but I really think TV can be a GREAT learning opportunity. yes it’s an escape etc etc, but if you teach your children to watch TV with a critical gaze there is a LOT to be learned. When they are young, it’s probably not as big of a deal, but as they hit pre-teen and teen years they will be weird if they don’t know what’s on TV and when they go to friend’s houses to watch it I think they’ll be at a disadvantage because they won’t have any background from YOU on the shows. I watched TV with my mom all the time and we’d talk about the shows and I honestly think she taught me how to watch critically as well as for enjoyment and I think that’s an important life skill.

Oh and about magazines. Highlights is great for little kids, but when I was in oh, 5th or 6th grade my mom got me a subscription to Zillions which is the kids counterpart to consumer reports. It’s a magazine written by kids about kids for kids and it was great. It’s probably too consumeristic in a lot of ways and encourages little capitalists, so I’m sure it has its downfalls, but it was not about fashion or boys or make-up, it was a gender neutral mag and taught skills on how to save money and advice on how to make money (successful lemonade stands, etc), reviewed kid products, etc. It was fun to get mail and have something that wasn’t condescending to me. NEVER EVER let your kids read YM or Seventeen… I wrote a paper in college about how teen girl mags basically prepared women to be porn stars and objects. Yuck.

I guess that’s it for now. Like I said, the important thing is not to sweat the small stuff. Allow your kids to be who they are, but most importantly KNOW who they are. If you make an investment in listening to your daughters and they feel respected by you, I think you will have an impact on their self assurance that will inevitably lead to feminist tendencies. Speak openly and honestly with your children about the world and its inequities and encourage them to communicate back, either with you or at school, and provide them with an outlet for action and I don’t think you’ll have any problems.

There are lots of things that you can try to avoid when it comes to robbing women of their agency. Like Disney, for example (classic example=The Little Mermaid who gives up her voice to be with a man. No woman should ever have to give up her voice for anything and any man should cherish any woman’s voice). Avoiding things is just going to make your daughter curious about them so it makes more sense to me to explain to her (in words that she understands) why you don’t like whatever it is. Communicating your distaste will make her think about it; forbidding her from it will draw her into it. Trust me - the things I did the most and for the longest were the ones my parents forbid me to do. I wanted to understand why.

IMHO, teaching your child critical thinking is the most important thing. It’s fine to say “let her have choices”, but without critical thinking skills, those choices will be more likely peer-influenced. It’s not necessarily a problem if a girl wants to be a cheerleader, but it is a problem if it’s because she’s completely buying into a harmful mythos about gender roles. If she’s been taught to question things, the latter situation is a lot less likely. And if she is buying into the mythos, there’s still the hope of helping her to see its pitfalls without necessarily forbidding the cheerleading.

I’ve tried to teach a questioning attitude for everything. Some boys at daycare told my daughter that girls couldn’t like the color red (???), and I made it very clear that any child can like any color, including boys liking pink. (I later found a little note in red crayon that said “for boys”. She told me it was because of what those boys said - her first little feminist act!)

And we constantly criticize TV shows and commercials. Not in a “let’s have a serious discussion” didactic way, but in a snarky comments way, which is far more fun. At 7 years old, she’s starting to imitate this behavior and it’s awesome. ;o)

Finally, I second the “wrestling” thing, but wanted to stress that mom as well as dad can be involved! My daughter and I sometimes “play fight” and by doing so she learns to be aggressive without really hurting me. It provides her a sense of control over aggressive feelings but not suppression. I think the suppression causes women to not be aggressive even when the situation calls for it, but it’s hard to overcome because you may feel that you can’t control that emotion. If only Dad does this kind of thing with his daughter, then aggression seems OK for girls, boys and men, but NOT for women. Oh, and it seemed to be a a good way for her to vent during the whole “Electra complex” stage. :o)

I wonder if one of the biggest lessons we need to teach our girls is how to deal with criticism and find your own community? After all, isn’t that the big punishment our world wields against women — isolation, rejection? (”You’ll never get married if you keep this up.”)