Comments on: Counterpoint: In Defense of “Garden State” http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/02/counterpoint-in-defense-of-garden-state/ Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about. Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:46:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: EL http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/02/counterpoint-in-defense-of-garden-state/#comment-190249 EL Tue, 03 Oct 2006 12:10:54 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/02/counterpoint-in-defense-of-garden-state/#comment-190249 Wow, it's an honor to get so much attention. :) I hadn't thought about the Mo Movie Measure on this one, but, hey, a hamster counts! Wow, it’s an honor to get so much attention. :)

I hadn’t thought about the Mo Movie Measure on this one, but, hey, a hamster counts!

]]> By: Daran http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/02/counterpoint-in-defense-of-garden-state/#comment-190124 Daran Tue, 03 Oct 2006 00:56:55 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/02/counterpoint-in-defense-of-garden-state/#comment-190124 A hamster isn't a man (but does her mother have a name?) I agree that you shouldn't change the name of the measure. As for the requirement that the characters be named, how much difference would that make? And just what is a <i>vagina ex machina</i> when its at home? It sounds like a <a href="http://www.fleshlite.com/" rel="nofollow">Fleshlite</a>. A hamster isn’t a man (but does her mother have a name?)

I agree that you shouldn’t change the name of the measure. As for the requirement that the characters be named, how much difference would that make?

And just what is a vagina ex machina when its at home? It sounds like a Fleshlite.

]]> By: Sage http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/02/counterpoint-in-defense-of-garden-state/#comment-190117 Sage Tue, 03 Oct 2006 00:33:15 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/02/counterpoint-in-defense-of-garden-state/#comment-190117 On manipulative music - I think <i>Garden State</i> does a good job with the tunes, but I understand the earlier post about using music in lieu of character development or more complex ways to further the plot. Personally, this will make some enraged, but I hated <i>Lost in Translation</i>. I did laundry and read the paper while I watched, it was so boring. I didn't give a hoot about either self-absorbed character. But at the end, when they're in the street and the music swells, I got all teary-eyed. <i>That's</i> music manipulation. I think the girl-guy match-up actually worked really well. They were both a bit broken and helped one another through their struggles. The thing that bugs me about <i>Garden State</i> though is the idea that a guy can be a regular consumer of a daily handful of anti-psychotic meds, then go off them all at once with no adverse effects. Ya, that's believable. On manipulative music - I think Garden State does a good job with the tunes, but I understand the earlier post about using music in lieu of character development or more complex ways to further the plot. Personally, this will make some enraged, but I hated Lost in Translation. I did laundry and read the paper while I watched, it was so boring. I didn’t give a hoot about either self-absorbed character. But at the end, when they’re in the street and the music swells, I got all teary-eyed. That’s music manipulation.

I think the girl-guy match-up actually worked really well. They were both a bit broken and helped one another through their struggles. The thing that bugs me about Garden State though is the idea that a guy can be a regular consumer of a daily handful of anti-psychotic meds, then go off them all at once with no adverse effects. Ya, that’s believable.

]]> By: BStu http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/02/counterpoint-in-defense-of-garden-state/#comment-190110 BStu Tue, 03 Oct 2006 00:01:07 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/02/counterpoint-in-defense-of-garden-state/#comment-190110 I just watched "Garden State" for the first time a few months ago, and I have to agree with El's characterization. She is definetly portrayed as being measurably "off". Nevertheless, I would arguee that this is an adjustment to the "Vagina deus Machina" prototype and not refutation of it. For THIS film, the perfect girl would be a bit of a mess. This just maintains her equillibrium with the male character status. Still (just so I can flip-flop yet again in a single paragraph), I don't think one can disqualify her as a potential protagonist in this story. Many films have far more obvious VdM's than Garden State. I think it would be foolish to suggest that Braff's character isn't the primary protaganist, but Portman's character is hardly a passive observer, either. I just watched “Garden State” for the first time a few months ago, and I have to agree with El’s characterization. She is definetly portrayed as being measurably “off”. Nevertheless, I would arguee that this is an adjustment to the “Vagina deus Machina” prototype and not refutation of it. For THIS film, the perfect girl would be a bit of a mess. This just maintains her equillibrium with the male character status. Still (just so I can flip-flop yet again in a single paragraph), I don’t think one can disqualify her as a potential protagonist in this story. Many films have far more obvious VdM’s than Garden State. I think it would be foolish to suggest that Braff’s character isn’t the primary protaganist, but Portman’s character is hardly a passive observer, either.

]]> By: Decnavda http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/02/counterpoint-in-defense-of-garden-state/#comment-190099 Decnavda Mon, 02 Oct 2006 23:01:44 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/02/counterpoint-in-defense-of-garden-state/#comment-190099 OK, if you NEED to change the name of the Mo Movie Measure, & I'm not sure you do, come up with something else. Reading the update on the original MMM post, Alison Bechdel is quoted as stating that she "stole" it from a friend, Liz Wallace, whom she credited by sticking her name in a movie marque in the strip. You could name it after Wallace, but she is unlikely to be famous enough for people to get the reference. The Dykes Movie Test might have other connotations, as might the Aliens Movie Test. ("Aliens" was mentioned in the strip as the only recent movie to pass the test: The two women talked about the monster.) Plus, I think requiring that the two women have names is a good addition to keep. Fankly, I vote for sticking with the Mo Movie Measure misnomer. OK, if you NEED to change the name of the Mo Movie Measure, & I’m not sure you do, come up with something else. Reading the update on the original MMM post, Alison Bechdel is quoted as stating that she “stole” it from a friend, Liz Wallace, whom she credited by sticking her name in a movie marque in the strip. You could name it after Wallace, but she is unlikely to be famous enough for people to get the reference. The Dykes Movie Test might have other connotations, as might the Aliens Movie Test. (”Aliens” was mentioned in the strip as the only recent movie to pass the test: The two women talked about the monster.) Plus, I think requiring that the two women have names is a good addition to keep. Fankly, I vote for sticking with the Mo Movie Measure misnomer.

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