Comments on: Grey’s Anatomy vs. Scrubs*: Or the Limits of Representation http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/ Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about. Fri, 09 Jan 2009 20:36:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Sailorman http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-191063 Sailorman Fri, 06 Oct 2006 16:11:48 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-191063 You may be interested in this blog link, which discussed the data behind the phenomenon: http://www.freakonomics.com/blog/2006/10/05/black-and-white-tv/ You may be interested in this blog link, which discussed the data behind the phenomenon:
http://www.freakonomics.com/blog/2006/10/05/black-and-white-tv/

]]> By: debbie http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190823 debbie Thu, 05 Oct 2006 17:45:56 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190823 Good for Shonda Rhimes for succeeding. It doesn't mean the system isn't overwhelmingly stacked against women of colour. Her success should be seen for what it is - an anomaly, as opposed to being used as proof that anyone can do it if they're willing to work hard enough. It just isn't true. That doesn't mean that there aren't people who manage to do it through some combination of intelligence, talent, connections, and luck. And I agree with Blue - I think that the diversity of the cast is indicative of why we need more people from oppressed and marginalized groups in the highest levels of all professions. It is a vast improvement over the whiteness of most television shows, particularly medical dramas. But I think that in some ways, we can see the real limits of representation in this example, as Maia discusses in her post. Good for Shonda Rhimes for succeeding. It doesn’t mean the system isn’t overwhelmingly stacked against women of colour. Her success should be seen for what it is - an anomaly, as opposed to being used as proof that anyone can do it if they’re willing to work hard enough. It just isn’t true. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t people who manage to do it through some combination of intelligence, talent, connections, and luck.
And I agree with Blue - I think that the diversity of the cast is indicative of why we need more people from oppressed and marginalized groups in the highest levels of all professions. It is a vast improvement over the whiteness of most television shows, particularly medical dramas. But I think that in some ways, we can see the real limits of representation in this example, as Maia discusses in her post.

]]> By: Blue http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190693 Blue Thu, 05 Oct 2006 04:22:44 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190693 <i>As one of very few African-American women to create and run a show for one of the major four networks (I can only think of one other, actually) she’s broken through a significant barrier and did so (from everything I’ve seen) on the merits of her own creativity.</i> It's no coincidence that her cast looks more like America than the average drama either. To me, it's an obvious example of why people from all sorts of groups need access to the highest levels of all professions -- a person of color is the only one who will <i>really</i> make representing more people of color a priority in primetime network tv. As one of very few African-American women to create and run a show for one of the major four networks (I can only think of one other, actually) she’s broken through a significant barrier and did so (from everything I’ve seen) on the merits of her own creativity.

It’s no coincidence that her cast looks more like America than the average drama either. To me, it’s an obvious example of why people from all sorts of groups need access to the highest levels of all professions — a person of color is the only one who will really make representing more people of color a priority in primetime network tv.

]]> By: Sebastian Holsclaw http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190652 Sebastian Holsclaw Wed, 04 Oct 2006 23:40:25 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190652 (Season 2 Spoiler Alert) I think one of the truly interesting things about the show is that has been designed for us to really root for Addison. When first introduced, we thought her character-line would follow the familiar arc--she would be the nasty wife that Mr. Dr. Sheppard had to get away from to get together as the main-character love interest. But pretty quickly we came to like her--maybe even more than Merideth. Rooting for the main character's love interest to stay with his wife? That actually is daring television in the modern era. (Season 2 Spoiler Alert)

I think one of the truly interesting things about the show is that has been designed for us to really root for Addison. When first introduced, we thought her character-line would follow the familiar arc–she would be the nasty wife that Mr. Dr. Sheppard had to get away from to get together as the main-character love interest. But pretty quickly we came to like her–maybe even more than Merideth. Rooting for the main character’s love interest to stay with his wife? That actually is daring television in the modern era.

]]> By: novathecat http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190648 novathecat Wed, 04 Oct 2006 23:06:17 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190648 I personally can't stand Grey's Anatomy. I 've worked in different hospitals over 15 years and there is no where the level of sleeping around that occurs on that show. Not to mention, the main character who sleeps with the attending would have fired by the 3rd or 4th episode in the real world (and the male attending goes his merry way). It seems that all those residents do is screw each other and save lives in between trysts. Have they started boinking the patients yet? Blechh! I personally can’t stand Grey’s Anatomy. I ‘ve worked in different hospitals over 15 years and there is no where the level of sleeping around that occurs on that show. Not to mention, the main character who sleeps with the attending would have fired by the 3rd or 4th episode in the real world (and the male attending goes his merry way). It seems that all those residents do is screw each other and save lives in between trysts. Have they started boinking the patients yet? Blechh!

]]> By: Tara http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190611 Tara Wed, 04 Oct 2006 19:56:32 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190611 I'm also in the boat of being SO frustrated by Meredith's behavior and nonetheless hooked on GA. I think it's the fact that (even Meredith, at least in season 1) most of the female characters act like and are allowed to be real people, not always lovable. I love that Addison Sheppard is also a character that we like and respect. I’m also in the boat of being SO frustrated by Meredith’s behavior and nonetheless hooked on GA. I think it’s the fact that (even Meredith, at least in season 1) most of the female characters act like and are allowed to be real people, not always lovable. I love that Addison Sheppard is also a character that we like and respect.

]]> By: Dreama http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190607 Dreama Wed, 04 Oct 2006 19:37:19 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190607 I've always thought that the "anyone can succeed" ideal present in Grey's Anatomy is rather obviously attributable to Shonda Rhimes being a fairly good example of that ideal in real life. As one of very few African-American women to create and run a show for one of the major four networks (I can only think of one other, actually) she's broken through a significant barrier and did so (from everything I've seen) on the merits of her own creativity. If she can break into the predominantly white male world of television creation, why can't Izzie Stephens from the trailer park break into medicine? I’ve always thought that the “anyone can succeed” ideal present in Grey’s Anatomy is rather obviously attributable to Shonda Rhimes being a fairly good example of that ideal in real life. As one of very few African-American women to create and run a show for one of the major four networks (I can only think of one other, actually) she’s broken through a significant barrier and did so (from everything I’ve seen) on the merits of her own creativity. If she can break into the predominantly white male world of television creation, why can’t Izzie Stephens from the trailer park break into medicine?

]]> By: debbie http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190600 debbie Wed, 04 Oct 2006 18:58:43 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190600 I <i>hate</i> the attitude that tv shows are just/should be treated as mindless escapes from reality. The media and pop culture reflect reality (to an extent) and shape reality. In a cultural context that tries to tell us that if we haven't achieved the American Dream, it's because we're not trying hard enough, the kind of depictions on Grey's Anatomy are dangerous. I hate the attitude that tv shows are just/should be treated as mindless escapes from reality. The media and pop culture reflect reality (to an extent) and shape reality. In a cultural context that tries to tell us that if we haven’t achieved the American Dream, it’s because we’re not trying hard enough, the kind of depictions on Grey’s Anatomy are dangerous.

]]> By: Timewalker http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190585 Timewalker Wed, 04 Oct 2006 18:08:58 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190585 Agree w/ Jessica, Joss *did* explore those areas, most often once they got out of high school (with high school being that insular place where he explored popularity in all its evil forms). Unfortunately, the after high school seasons are seen by most early fans as the lesser episodes. Agree w/ Jessica,
Joss *did* explore those areas, most often once they got out of high school (with high school being that insular place where he explored popularity in all its evil forms). Unfortunately, the after high school seasons are seen by most early fans as the lesser episodes.

]]> By: Jessica Atreides http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190569 Jessica Atreides Wed, 04 Oct 2006 16:58:24 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190569 Carla attributed her lack of doctorness to a lack of money, not racism. The implication may still be there, though. J.D. came from a poor background, and he's no smarter than she is, yet--doctor. I see some examples of Buffy taking economic background into account when shaping its characters. The pressure of being a poor single "mom" AND the Slayer didn't help Buffy to be carefree and happy, which she wasn't from about the time her mother died onward. Xander largely repeated his parents' blue-collar existence. Cordelia treated everyone as inferiors until awhile after she lost her trust fund. And there's Faith. Carla attributed her lack of doctorness to a lack of money, not racism. The implication may still be there, though. J.D. came from a poor background, and he’s no smarter than she is, yet–doctor.

I see some examples of Buffy taking economic background into account when shaping its characters. The pressure of being a poor single “mom” AND the Slayer didn’t help Buffy to be carefree and happy, which she wasn’t from about the time her mother died onward. Xander largely repeated his parents’ blue-collar existence. Cordelia treated everyone as inferiors until awhile after she lost her trust fund. And there’s Faith.

]]> By: Angela http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190560 Angela Wed, 04 Oct 2006 16:44:48 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190560 Well I hate to admit that I watch Grey's Anatomy (never got into Scrubs). The characters are annoying, but they are so amusing. I'm particulary enjoying the guest appearance by Dianne Carroll as Mrs. Burke (Dr. Burke's mom). She's a sterling actor. Take Grey's Anatomy for what it is, mindless entertainment. I like tv shows that allow some escape from the real world. Every program doesn't have to be a depiction of reality. Well I hate to admit that I watch Grey’s Anatomy (never got into Scrubs). The characters are annoying, but they are so amusing. I’m particulary enjoying the guest appearance by Dianne Carroll as Mrs. Burke (Dr. Burke’s mom). She’s a sterling actor.

Take Grey’s Anatomy for what it is, mindless entertainment. I like tv shows that allow some escape from the real world. Every program doesn’t have to be a depiction of reality.

]]> By: Mike http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190525 Mike Wed, 04 Oct 2006 13:55:32 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190525 I grew up in a trailer park and am going to be a surgeon. Imagine that. I grew up in a trailer park and am going to be a surgeon.

Imagine that.

]]> By: debbie http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190518 debbie Wed, 04 Oct 2006 13:31:06 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190518 I also watch Grey's Anatomy on a regular basis, and I find the show very frustrating. I also hate most of the characters, particularly Meredith - I always end up ranting afterwards that she's so whiny and self-involved, and that I can't imagine why anyone would want to be with her, yet the whole show seems premised on her relationship with McDreamy. Of course, I understand exactly why Meredith is so desireable to all these men: she's stereotypically attractive, and despite being smart and ambitious enough to be a surgical intern, she's emotionally fragile, needy, and dependent on men for approval. I do like that there are people of colour, particularly women of colour in positions of authority. I don't like that there is never any discussion or recognition of this, or the barriers that these characters have faced due to racism (at least not that I can remember). I also watch Grey’s Anatomy on a regular basis, and I find the show very frustrating. I also hate most of the characters, particularly Meredith - I always end up ranting afterwards that she’s so whiny and self-involved, and that I can’t imagine why anyone would want to be with her, yet the whole show seems premised on her relationship with McDreamy. Of course, I understand exactly why Meredith is so desireable to all these men: she’s stereotypically attractive, and despite being smart and ambitious enough to be a surgical intern, she’s emotionally fragile, needy, and dependent on men for approval.

I do like that there are people of colour, particularly women of colour in positions of authority. I don’t like that there is never any discussion or recognition of this, or the barriers that these characters have faced due to racism (at least not that I can remember).

]]> By: Tara http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190517 Tara Wed, 04 Oct 2006 13:28:06 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/04/greys-anatomy-vs-scrubs-or-the-limits-of-representation/#comment-190517 I never really got into Scrubs and I'm a fan of Grey's Anatomy, though sometimes I get really annoyed with it. Anyway, I guess I think that there is a value <i>both</i> in having our actual world(s) reflected at us and at having a more ideal world reflected back at us. Being able to visualize something different can be a step to getting there, and I do think TV can help. Real role models are better than fictional role models but fictional role models are better than nothing even though TV in no way can substitute for the work of actually making our world more egalitarian. I never really got into Scrubs and I’m a fan of Grey’s Anatomy, though sometimes I get really annoyed with it. Anyway, I guess I think that there is a value both in having our actual world(s) reflected at us and at having a more ideal world reflected back at us. Being able to visualize something different can be a step to getting there, and I do think TV can help. Real role models are better than fictional role models but fictional role models are better than nothing even though TV in no way can substitute for the work of actually making our world more egalitarian.

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