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	<title>Comments on: New Lancet Study: 425,000 - 790,000 Excess Iraqi Deaths Since We Invaded</title>
	<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/11/new-lancet-study-425000-790000-excess-iraqi-deaths-since-we-invaded/</link>
	<description>Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:15:29 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1</generator>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/11/new-lancet-study-425000-790000-excess-iraqi-deaths-since-we-invaded/#comment-194300</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Oct 2006 09:47:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/11/new-lancet-study-425000-790000-excess-iraqi-deaths-since-we-invaded/#comment-194300</guid>
		<description>Which is to say, the IBC is puzzled by the Great Wall of China. There can't be that many bricks, there just can't. Other than biased and ridiculing language, there is nothing about the implied (supposedly extreme and improbable) results that seems that unlikely:

A government in the middle of a bloody and multi-sided civil war can't keep good records of the dead. 

Or of the wounded. 

Many wounded don't risk the hospitals. 

A media that has suffered an extraordinary casualty rates of its own can't cover the war or its casualties effectively.

Targeted attacks having driven out almost all foreign service organization, no one is responding to the crisis.

The IBC and other organizations try to downplay reports that the situation is worse than they think.

Again, which part of this is unimaginable?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which is to say, the IBC is puzzled by the Great Wall of China. There can&#8217;t be that many bricks, there just can&#8217;t. Other than biased and ridiculing language, there is nothing about the implied (supposedly extreme and improbable) results that seems that unlikely:</p>
<p>A government in the middle of a bloody and multi-sided civil war can&#8217;t keep good records of the dead. </p>
<p>Or of the wounded. </p>
<p>Many wounded don&#8217;t risk the hospitals. </p>
<p>A media that has suffered an extraordinary casualty rates of its own can&#8217;t cover the war or its casualties effectively.</p>
<p>Targeted attacks having driven out almost all foreign service organization, no one is responding to the crisis.</p>
<p>The IBC and other organizations try to downplay reports that the situation is worse than they think.</p>
<p>Again, which part of this is unimaginable?</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/11/new-lancet-study-425000-790000-excess-iraqi-deaths-since-we-invaded/#comment-194245</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Oct 2006 06:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/11/new-lancet-study-425000-790000-excess-iraqi-deaths-since-we-invaded/#comment-194245</guid>
		<description>have you seen the response from Iraq Body Count.com"
They don't seem to think much of the lancet/JH report

&lt;a href="http://www.iraqbodycount.org/press/pr14.php" rel="nofollow"&gt;IBC.com&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;Iraq Body Count Press Release 16 October 2006
Reality checks: some responses to the latest Lancet estimates
Hamit Dardagan, John Sloboda, and Josh Dougherty
Summary

A new study has been released by the Lancet medical journal estimating over 650,000 excess deaths in Iraq. The Iraqi mortality estimates published in the Lancet in October 2006 imply, among other things, that:

1. On average, a thousand Iraqis have been violently killed every single day in the first half of 2006, with less than a tenth of them being noticed by any public surveillance mechanisms;
2. Some 800,000 or more Iraqis suffered blast wounds and other serious conflict-related injuries in the past two years, but less than a tenth of them received any kind of hospital treatment;
3. Over 7% of the entire adult male population of Iraq has already been killed in violence, with no less than 10% in the worst affected areas covering most of central Iraq;
4. Half a million death certificates were received by families which were never officially recorded as having been issued;
5. The Coalition has killed far more Iraqis in the last year than in earlier years containing the initial massive "Shock and Awe" invasion and the major assaults on Falluja.

If these assertions are true, they further imply:

* incompetence and/or fraud on a truly massive scale by Iraqi officials in hospitals and ministries, on a local, regional and national level, perfectly coordinated from the moment the occupation began;
* bizarre and self-destructive behaviour on the part of all but a small minority of 800,000 injured, mostly non-combatant, Iraqis;
* the utter failure of local or external agencies to notice and respond to a decimation of the adult male population in key urban areas;
* an abject failure of the media, Iraqi as well as international, to observe that Coalition-caused events of the scale they reported during the three-week invasion in 2003 have been occurring every month for over a year.

In the light of such extreme and improbable implications, a rational alternative conclusion to be considered is that the authors have drawn conclusions from unrepresentative data. In addition, totals of the magnitude generated by this study are unnecessary to brand the invasion and occupation of Iraq a human and strategic tragedy.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>have you seen the response from Iraq Body <a href="http://Count.com" title="http://Count.com">Count.com</a>&#8221;<br />
They don&#8217;t seem to think much of the lancet/JH report</p>
<p><a href="http://www.iraqbodycount.org/press/pr14.php" rel="nofollow">IBC.com</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Iraq Body Count Press Release 16 October 2006<br />
Reality checks: some responses to the latest Lancet estimates<br />
Hamit Dardagan, John Sloboda, and Josh Dougherty<br />
Summary</p>
<p>A new study has been released by the Lancet medical journal estimating over 650,000 excess deaths in Iraq. The Iraqi mortality estimates published in the Lancet in October 2006 imply, among other things, that:</p>
<p>1. On average, a thousand Iraqis have been violently killed every single day in the first half of 2006, with less than a tenth of them being noticed by any public surveillance mechanisms;<br />
2. Some 800,000 or more Iraqis suffered blast wounds and other serious conflict-related injuries in the past two years, but less than a tenth of them received any kind of hospital treatment;<br />
3. Over 7% of the entire adult male population of Iraq has already been killed in violence, with no less than 10% in the worst affected areas covering most of central Iraq;<br />
4. Half a million death certificates were received by families which were never officially recorded as having been issued;<br />
5. The Coalition has killed far more Iraqis in the last year than in earlier years containing the initial massive &#8220;Shock and Awe&#8221; invasion and the major assaults on Falluja.</p>
<p>If these assertions are true, they further imply:</p>
<p>* incompetence and/or fraud on a truly massive scale by Iraqi officials in hospitals and ministries, on a local, regional and national level, perfectly coordinated from the moment the occupation began;<br />
* bizarre and self-destructive behaviour on the part of all but a small minority of 800,000 injured, mostly non-combatant, Iraqis;<br />
* the utter failure of local or external agencies to notice and respond to a decimation of the adult male population in key urban areas;<br />
* an abject failure of the media, Iraqi as well as international, to observe that Coalition-caused events of the scale they reported during the three-week invasion in 2003 have been occurring every month for over a year.</p>
<p>In the light of such extreme and improbable implications, a rational alternative conclusion to be considered is that the authors have drawn conclusions from unrepresentative data. In addition, totals of the magnitude generated by this study are unnecessary to brand the invasion and occupation of Iraq a human and strategic tragedy.
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/11/new-lancet-study-425000-790000-excess-iraqi-deaths-since-we-invaded/#comment-192608</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 07:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/11/new-lancet-study-425000-790000-excess-iraqi-deaths-since-we-invaded/#comment-192608</guid>
		<description>Mateo,

I believe that you are probably comparing a rate calculated by dividing births by total female population to a rate that is births divided by female population between 16 and 40 years of age. That the rough calculation you derived from the study numbers (number of births in study divided by number of female members of households, including children and elderly) is off by 33% would be consistent with this difference. 

Also, the chance that the study authors didn't notice the anomaly you report or didn't consider it worth trying to explain or account for seems very small. The chance that the peer reviewers for this paper didn't notice it or ask for an explanation seems even smaller.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mateo,</p>
<p>I believe that you are probably comparing a rate calculated by dividing births by total female population to a rate that is births divided by female population between 16 and 40 years of age. That the rough calculation you derived from the study numbers (number of births in study divided by number of female members of households, including children and elderly) is off by 33% would be consistent with this difference. </p>
<p>Also, the chance that the study authors didn&#8217;t notice the anomaly you report or didn&#8217;t consider it worth trying to explain or account for seems very small. The chance that the peer reviewers for this paper didn&#8217;t notice it or ask for an explanation seems even smaller.</p>
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		<title>By: mateo luiz</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/11/new-lancet-study-425000-790000-excess-iraqi-deaths-since-we-invaded/#comment-192576</link>
		<dc:creator>mateo luiz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 05:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/11/new-lancet-study-425000-790000-excess-iraqi-deaths-since-we-invaded/#comment-192576</guid>
		<description>if you calculate the birth rate from the single birth stat in the Lancet paper, you will find that their sample was about 20 births/1000/year.
This is 33% less than the 32 births/1000/year that can be validated through more precise records.
If the data does not accurately reflect birth statistics, then the sample can not be taken to be representative of the population.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if you calculate the birth rate from the single birth stat in the Lancet paper, you will find that their sample was about 20 births/1000/year.<br />
This is 33% less than the 32 births/1000/year that can be validated through more precise records.<br />
If the data does not accurately reflect birth statistics, then the sample can not be taken to be representative of the population.</p>
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		<title>By: Sailorman</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/11/new-lancet-study-425000-790000-excess-iraqi-deaths-since-we-invaded/#comment-192393</link>
		<dc:creator>Sailorman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/11/new-lancet-study-425000-790000-excess-iraqi-deaths-since-we-invaded/#comment-192393</guid>
		<description>Here's the direct link to the study:
http://www.thelancet.com/webfiles/images/journals/lancet/s0140673606694919.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s the direct link to the study:<br />
<a href="http://www.thelancet.com/webfiles/images/journals/lancet/s0140673606694919.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.thelancet.com/webfiles/images/journals/lancet/s0140673606694919.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Margens de erro</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/11/new-lancet-study-425000-790000-excess-iraqi-deaths-since-we-invaded/#comment-272441</link>
		<dc:creator>Margens de erro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/11/new-lancet-study-425000-790000-excess-iraqi-deaths-since-we-invaded/#comment-272441</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;  Como se calcularam estes números? O melhor é ler. A base é um inquérito por questionário a 12.000 iraquianos. A metodologia é complexa e haverá muitos pontos para debate. Exemplo num blogue: aqui.   Entretanto, há quem recorra, como habitualmente, à fé : George W. Bush ou John Howard dizem que não "acreditam" nos números. &lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%-->  Como se calcularam estes números? O melhor é ler. A base é um inquérito por questionário a 12.000 iraquianos. A metodologia é complexa e haverá muitos pontos para debate. Exemplo num blogue: aqui.   Entretanto, há quem recorra, como habitualmente, à fé : George W. Bush ou John Howard dizem que não &#8220;acreditam&#8221; nos números. <!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Zuky</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/11/new-lancet-study-425000-790000-excess-iraqi-deaths-since-we-invaded/#comment-272442</link>
		<dc:creator>Zuky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/11/new-lancet-study-425000-790000-excess-iraqi-deaths-since-we-invaded/#comment-272442</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;new Lancet study of Iraqi deaths, while maintaining an objective tone, is heavily slanted against the study; many of the painfully bad right-wing arguments against the earlier survey are repeated by the Times, usually without rebuttal. [...]&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%-->new Lancet study of Iraqi deaths, while maintaining an objective tone, is heavily slanted against the study; many of the painfully bad right-wing arguments against the earlier survey are repeated by the Times, usually without rebuttal. [&#8230;]<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Giltner Review</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/11/new-lancet-study-425000-790000-excess-iraqi-deaths-since-we-invaded/#comment-272443</link>
		<dc:creator>Giltner Review</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/11/new-lancet-study-425000-790000-excess-iraqi-deaths-since-we-invaded/#comment-272443</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt; NY Times Coverage Biased Against Lancet Study By Ampersand on Media criticism    The New York Times coverage of the new Lancet study of Iraqi deaths, while maintaining an objective tone, is heavily slanted against the study; many of the painfully bad right-wing arguments against the earlier survey are repeated by the Times, usually without rebuttal. For example:&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%--> NY Times Coverage Biased Against Lancet Study By Ampersand on Media criticism    The New York Times coverage of the new Lancet study of Iraqi deaths, while maintaining an objective tone, is heavily slanted against the study; many of the painfully bad right-wing arguments against the earlier survey are repeated by the Times, usually without rebuttal. For example:<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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		<title>By:  Creative Destruction</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/11/new-lancet-study-425000-790000-excess-iraqi-deaths-since-we-invaded/#comment-272444</link>
		<dc:creator> Creative Destruction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/11/new-lancet-study-425000-790000-excess-iraqi-deaths-since-we-invaded/#comment-272444</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;  The New York Times coverage of the new Lancet study of Iraqi deaths, while maintaining an objective tone, is heavily slanted against the study; many of the painfully bad right-wing arguments against the earlier survey are repeated by the Times, usually without rebuttal. For example:&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%-->  The New York Times coverage of the new Lancet study of Iraqi deaths, while maintaining an objective tone, is heavily slanted against the study; many of the painfully bad right-wing arguments against the earlier survey are repeated by the Times, usually without rebuttal. For example:<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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