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	<title>Comments on: Selling out</title>
	<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/</link>
	<description>Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 02:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1</generator>
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		<title>By: maribelle</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-195353</link>
		<dc:creator>maribelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Oct 2006 20:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-195353</guid>
		<description>&#62;I hope people who can’t forgive Amp for this sale can still join in the discussion. 

For me, it is not a matter of forgiveness.  It is a matter of where I spend my time, energy and money. The ongoing level of discourse on this blog that Q Girl talks about is what drew me back again and again, especially for discussing thorny issues.

And now that level of discourse has been exploited to benefit pornographers.  Here's where I bow out.

Saddest thing about this whole thing:  I am a firm believer in woman and men working together to combat the patriarchy, and have argued with others who feel that men are the enemy, that they will all sell us out in the end.  So I gladly read a blog written by a "male feminist"--and in the end, he sold women out by helping promote the most disgusting, racist, scary porn--and utilizing his feminist internet cred to do so.  Just like my "men all suck" friends have been saying for years. God/dess, I hate it when the asshats and the haters are right.  And they were right here.

You sold us out, Amp, in the end.  It's all very well and good for you to say you're not that upset by pornography.  Women aren't really your people after all, are we?  

Do I forgive Amp?  Of course I do--go with god/dess Amp and enjoy your life and your family.  Will I participate on this blog, read here, post here, encourage friends to read here?  Never again.  

Good luck to all, hope to see you in cyberspace, contributing to the consciousness raising that will bring our sisters and daughters out of oppression, not contributing to their continued exploitation as sexbots for hire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;I hope people who can’t forgive Amp for this sale can still join in the discussion. </p>
<p>For me, it is not a matter of forgiveness.  It is a matter of where I spend my time, energy and money. The ongoing level of discourse on this blog that Q Girl talks about is what drew me back again and again, especially for discussing thorny issues.</p>
<p>And now that level of discourse has been exploited to benefit pornographers.  Here&#8217;s where I bow out.</p>
<p>Saddest thing about this whole thing:  I am a firm believer in woman and men working together to combat the patriarchy, and have argued with others who feel that men are the enemy, that they will all sell us out in the end.  So I gladly read a blog written by a &#8220;male feminist&#8221;&#8211;and in the end, he sold women out by helping promote the most disgusting, racist, scary porn&#8211;and utilizing his feminist internet cred to do so.  Just like my &#8220;men all suck&#8221; friends have been saying for years. God/dess, I hate it when the asshats and the haters are right.  And they were right here.</p>
<p>You sold us out, Amp, in the end.  It&#8217;s all very well and good for you to say you&#8217;re not that upset by pornography.  Women aren&#8217;t really your people after all, are we?  </p>
<p>Do I forgive Amp?  Of course I do&#8211;go with god/dess Amp and enjoy your life and your family.  Will I participate on this blog, read here, post here, encourage friends to read here?  Never again.  </p>
<p>Good luck to all, hope to see you in cyberspace, contributing to the consciousness raising that will bring our sisters and daughters out of oppression, not contributing to their continued exploitation as sexbots for hire.</p>
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		<title>By: Tara</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-194963</link>
		<dc:creator>Tara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Oct 2006 03:45:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-194963</guid>
		<description>Nick - I think you're right, especially since I have a feeling toleration isn't a real word... argh!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick - I think you&#8217;re right, especially since I have a feeling toleration isn&#8217;t a real word&#8230; argh!</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Kiddle</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-194956</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Kiddle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Oct 2006 01:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-194956</guid>
		<description>Tara: I think we may be using different definitions, so perhaps we should agree to differ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tara: I think we may be using different definitions, so perhaps we should agree to differ.</p>
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		<title>By: Tara</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-194943</link>
		<dc:creator>Tara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 23:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-194943</guid>
		<description>Nick - I think the word then isn't forgiveness, which is meaningless when it's not sought, but toleration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick - I think the word then isn&#8217;t forgiveness, which is meaningless when it&#8217;s not sought, but toleration.</p>
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		<title>By: ms_xeno</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-194940</link>
		<dc:creator>ms_xeno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 23:56:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-194940</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Please, NO MORE MEMES !!!&lt;/i&gt;

[huddles in the corner]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Please, NO MORE MEMES !!!</i></p>
<p>[huddles in the corner]</p>
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		<title>By: Charles S</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-194931</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 23:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-194931</guid>
		<description>I'm not sure if I let that trolling comment from Yohan through or if amp did. If I did, I apologize. If Amp did, I imagine it was only because it didn't look like spam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure if I let that trolling comment from Yohan through or if amp did. If I did, I apologize. If Amp did, I imagine it was only because it didn&#8217;t look like spam.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Kiddle</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-194917</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Kiddle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 22:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-194917</guid>
		<description>It would be nice if the comment thread bore some relation to the original post, you know?  I didn't notice this tangent getting started, but can it just stop now, please?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be nice if the comment thread bore some relation to the original post, you know?  I didn&#8217;t notice this tangent getting started, but can it just stop now, please?</p>
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		<title>By: Daran</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-194911</link>
		<dc:creator>Daran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 21:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-194911</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And since Amp kept the sale secret for many months and did not solicit money for his blog (which in *not* why he needed the money in the first place), those nasty old feminists did not have a chance to contribute monetarily.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Look at the righthand margin, and scroll down until you see it.  It's not newly gone up or anything.  It has been there all the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And since Amp kept the sale secret for many months and did not solicit money for his blog (which in *not* why he needed the money in the first place), those nasty old feminists did not have a chance to contribute monetarily.</p></blockquote>
<p>Look at the righthand margin, and scroll down until you see it.  It&#8217;s not newly gone up or anything.  It has been there all the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Q Grrl</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-194873</link>
		<dc:creator>Q Grrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 18:56:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-194873</guid>
		<description>"To blame are the feminist users of his unique male-feminist www-pages. They should have opened their wallets and helped Ampersand with regular donations, every month USD 10,- or USD 100,- or whatever you consider as a small amount."

And since Amp kept the sale secret for many months and did not solicit money for his blog (which in *not* why he needed the money in the first place), those nasty old feminists did not have a chance to contribute monetarily.  However, intellectual-property wise, those same smelly old feminists *did* contribute (mightly) and it is that intellectual property of theirs that drove up the popularity of this blog.   

I know you wish to impune all feminists with your misogynistic belief that all women are just the leeches, sucking away at the rational decision-making of men folk, but you should at least check your facts first, Yohan, and read over the last five years of dialogue that has created Alas!

But I do admire your cowardly style in waltzing into a blog where you have seldom (if ever) posted before  now that you assume all those nasty ass, smelly, hairy feminists have retreated to disgorge the supposedly collective blood of our sucking.  Or something like that.   Purhaps you should purchase a spine before you try to sell us your opprobrium.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;To blame are the feminist users of his unique male-feminist www-pages. They should have opened their wallets and helped Ampersand with regular donations, every month USD 10,- or USD 100,- or whatever you consider as a small amount.&#8221;</p>
<p>And since Amp kept the sale secret for many months and did not solicit money for his blog (which in *not* why he needed the money in the first place), those nasty old feminists did not have a chance to contribute monetarily.  However, intellectual-property wise, those same smelly old feminists *did* contribute (mightly) and it is that intellectual property of theirs that drove up the popularity of this blog.   </p>
<p>I know you wish to impune all feminists with your misogynistic belief that all women are just the leeches, sucking away at the rational decision-making of men folk, but you should at least check your facts first, Yohan, and read over the last five years of dialogue that has created Alas!</p>
<p>But I do admire your cowardly style in waltzing into a blog where you have seldom (if ever) posted before  now that you assume all those nasty ass, smelly, hairy feminists have retreated to disgorge the supposedly collective blood of our sucking.  Or something like that.   Purhaps you should purchase a spine before you try to sell us your opprobrium.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Kiddle</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-194816</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Kiddle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-194816</guid>
		<description>I don't think an apology is necessary for forgiveness: you decide you can forgive someone's behaviour based on whatever criteria make sense to you (which may or may not include an apology) or you decide you can't.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think an apology is necessary for forgiveness: you decide you can forgive someone&#8217;s behaviour based on whatever criteria make sense to you (which may or may not include an apology) or you decide you can&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Tara</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-194751</link>
		<dc:creator>Tara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:32:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-194751</guid>
		<description>Sorry - but I missed where Amp apologized for profiting from porn and *asked* for forgiveness... from what I saw it seems like the only thing he felt it was appropriate to apologize for was how he made his decision known.  I think your last line is kind of misleading - implying that there was some kind of regret expressed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry - but I missed where Amp apologized for profiting from porn and *asked* for forgiveness&#8230; from what I saw it seems like the only thing he felt it was appropriate to apologize for was how he made his decision known.  I think your last line is kind of misleading - implying that there was some kind of regret expressed.</p>
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		<title>By: Yohan</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-194669</link>
		<dc:creator>Yohan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 05:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-194669</guid>
		<description>Ampersand made the right thing, he sold, what is not lucrative.
I cannot blame him for selling his property, which is a fairly large site with good management.

Such a site cannot run sccessfully without money, not to talk about time, Ampersand spends every day to keep  it up-to-date. 

Now, plenty of feminists are blaming Ampersand, but I think, it is totally unjustified to accuse him for any 'wrongdoing'.

To blame are the feminist users of his unique male-feminist www-pages. They should have opened their wallets and helped Ampersand with regular donations, every month USD 10,- or USD 100,- or whatever you consider as a small amount.

Nobody works for free, this includes internet-providers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ampersand made the right thing, he sold, what is not lucrative.<br />
I cannot blame him for selling his property, which is a fairly large site with good management.</p>
<p>Such a site cannot run sccessfully without money, not to talk about time, Ampersand spends every day to keep  it up-to-date. </p>
<p>Now, plenty of feminists are blaming Ampersand, but I think, it is totally unjustified to accuse him for any &#8216;wrongdoing&#8217;.</p>
<p>To blame are the feminist users of his unique male-feminist www-pages. They should have opened their wallets and helped Ampersand with regular donations, every month USD 10,- or USD 100,- or whatever you consider as a small amount.</p>
<p>Nobody works for free, this includes internet-providers.</p>
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		<title>By: Pen-Elayne on the Web</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-281549</link>
		<dc:creator>Pen-Elayne on the Web</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/18/selling-out/#comment-281549</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;" company which, apparently used his traffic to help pornographers get higher search listings for their sites, and didn't inform his readers of the sale. Here's some background reading on this from Amp himself, his cobloggers Rachel and Nick, Zuzu at Feministe, Tom at the Comics Reporter, Fred at Stone Court, MB at Making Light, Hugo Schwyzer and Tekanji. My opinion on all of this is as follows:  First of all, I have always believed that blogs are not vehicles whereby one should expect to&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%-->&#8221; company which, apparently used his traffic to help pornographers get higher search listings for their sites, and didn&#8217;t inform his readers of the sale. Here&#8217;s some background reading on this from Amp himself, his cobloggers Rachel and Nick, Zuzu at Feministe, Tom at the Comics Reporter, Fred at Stone Court, MB at Making Light, Hugo Schwyzer and Tekanji. My opinion on all of this is as follows:  First of all, I have always believed that blogs are not vehicles whereby one should expect to<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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