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	<title>Comments on: A Whiney Post About Faking Respectful Discourse</title>
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	<description>Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: lucia</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-199206</link>
		<dc:creator>lucia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Nov 2006 03:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>RonF: Agreed. I should have said "remained" persona non-grata!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RonF: Agreed. I should have said &#8220;remained&#8221; persona non-grata!</p>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-199183</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Nov 2006 02:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What U.S. Attorney Fitzgerald did certainly didn't help Sen. Fitzgerald within the Republican party, but it's important to remember that they hated him in the first place just by his defeat of their hand-picked candidate in the 1996 primary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What U.S. Attorney Fitzgerald did certainly didn&#8217;t help Sen. Fitzgerald within the Republican party, but it&#8217;s important to remember that they hated him in the first place just by his defeat of their hand-picked candidate in the 1996 primary.</p>
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		<title>By: lucia</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-199101</link>
		<dc:creator>lucia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Nov 2006 19:45:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-199101</guid>
		<description>RonF: Absolutely!  Of course, since many of those 60+ were Republicans, Peter Fitzgerald also became persona non-grata with his own party.

Here's more to cheer Barry up. Now, it's not just Noonan and Cole saying negative things about Bush and/or his administration, the list has expanded to include Richard Perle, Kenneth Adelman, and David Frum.  See &lt;a href="http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2006/12/neocons200612" rel="nofollow"&gt;Vanity Fair.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RonF: Absolutely!  Of course, since many of those 60+ were Republicans, Peter Fitzgerald also became persona non-grata with his own party.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s more to cheer Barry up. Now, it&#8217;s not just Noonan and Cole saying negative things about Bush and/or his administration, the list has expanded to include Richard Perle, Kenneth Adelman, and David Frum.  See <a href="http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2006/12/neocons200612" rel="nofollow">Vanity Fair.</a></p>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198808</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 23:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yes, it led to 60+ politicians and fixers in jail, with more on the way as he peels the Democratic onion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it led to 60+ politicians and fixers in jail, with more on the way as he peels the Democratic onion.</p>
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		<title>By: lucia</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198785</link>
		<dc:creator>lucia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 21:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198785</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;PhD in what?&lt;/i&gt; Political Science.

Yes. Stroger will win; I agree. 

As to political cleanliness: Is it possible for an Illinois politician to be clean?  I suspect Peter Fitzgerald (R) was clean.  But we know where that lead!  ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>PhD in what?</i> Political Science.</p>
<p>Yes. Stroger will win; I agree. </p>
<p>As to political cleanliness: Is it possible for an Illinois politician to be clean?  I suspect Peter Fitzgerald (R) was clean.  But we know where that lead!  ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198722</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 16:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ah, that should have been "I got a letter in the mail from Sens. Durbin and Obama supporting Todd Stroger for Cook County President."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, that should have been &#8220;I got a letter in the mail from Sens. Durbin and Obama supporting Todd Stroger for Cook County President.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198721</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 16:11:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198721</guid>
		<description>Lucia, as far as the Stroger election goes, he'll win because he's a black Democrat and there's no way that the residents of the City of Chicago (for you non-Illinoisians, that's at least half of the Cook County electorate) will not vote for him for at least one of those two reasons.  It'll be a lot closer than normal due to the inheritance factor, but he'll win.

I got a letter in the mail signed by Sens. Durbin and Obama.  Durbin I can understand; he's a fellow undistinguished political hack.  But for Obama to hold his nose and put his considerable reputation behind a machine candidate who is running what I consider a disreputable campaign surprises me.  Obama will find out that when you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.  Again, for you non-Illinoisians, news reports have come out lately about Obama's links to a well-known indicted Illinois political fixer.  The knives are starting to come out, and the first thing they are going after is Obama's "Mr. Clean" image.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lucia, as far as the Stroger election goes, he&#8217;ll win because he&#8217;s a black Democrat and there&#8217;s no way that the residents of the City of Chicago (for you non-Illinoisians, that&#8217;s at least half of the Cook County electorate) will not vote for him for at least one of those two reasons.  It&#8217;ll be a lot closer than normal due to the inheritance factor, but he&#8217;ll win.</p>
<p>I got a letter in the mail signed by Sens. Durbin and Obama.  Durbin I can understand; he&#8217;s a fellow undistinguished political hack.  But for Obama to hold his nose and put his considerable reputation behind a machine candidate who is running what I consider a disreputable campaign surprises me.  Obama will find out that when you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.  Again, for you non-Illinoisians, news reports have come out lately about Obama&#8217;s links to a well-known indicted Illinois political fixer.  The knives are starting to come out, and the first thing they are going after is Obama&#8217;s &#8220;Mr. Clean&#8221; image.</p>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198715</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 15:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198715</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;She was in the military reserves working toward her Ph. D. at NIU when she was deployed to Iraq.&lt;/i&gt;

See!  If you don't study hard in college you'll get sent to Iraq!

Sorry.  Couldn't resist.  If the damn fool hadn't married money he'd have never come within sniffing distance of the Senate.  Anyway: PhD in what?

All the ads I've seen have been of still pictures of Duckworth with someone else describing her positions (from both parties).  I haven't actually seen or heard her speak to her own positions herself.  But, then, I'm not in the district and thus haven't sought out stuff like the Channel 11 interview; I only see what's spilled over into broadcast network TV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>She was in the military reserves working toward her Ph. D. at NIU when she was deployed to Iraq.</i></p>
<p>See!  If you don&#8217;t study hard in college you&#8217;ll get sent to Iraq!</p>
<p>Sorry.  Couldn&#8217;t resist.  If the damn fool hadn&#8217;t married money he&#8217;d have never come within sniffing distance of the Senate.  Anyway: PhD in what?</p>
<p>All the ads I&#8217;ve seen have been of still pictures of Duckworth with someone else describing her positions (from both parties).  I haven&#8217;t actually seen or heard her speak to her own positions herself.  But, then, I&#8217;m not in the district and thus haven&#8217;t sought out stuff like the Channel 11 interview; I only see what&#8217;s spilled over into broadcast network TV.</p>
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		<title>By: fishbane</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198649</link>
		<dc:creator>fishbane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 06:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198649</guid>
		<description>Sorry to self-reply, but here's an example of a libertarian examining policy about care and help for the those who need it most: &lt;a href="http://www.reason.com/blog/show/116351.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;The San Francisco Chronicle Goes Pulitzer-Fishing&lt;/a&gt;. We may be snarky bastards most of the time, but some of us do think about these things a lot. One can argue about proposed policy (and I do, a lot), but unlike a lot of sketches of libertarians, there isn't a lack of concern there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to self-reply, but here&#8217;s an example of a libertarian examining policy about care and help for the those who need it most: <a href="http://www.reason.com/blog/show/116351.html" rel="nofollow">The San Francisco Chronicle Goes Pulitzer-Fishing</a>. We may be snarky bastards most of the time, but some of us do think about these things a lot. One can argue about proposed policy (and I do, a lot), but unlike a lot of sketches of libertarians, there isn&#8217;t a lack of concern there.</p>
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		<title>By: fishbane</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198630</link>
		<dc:creator>fishbane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 03:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198630</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Wouldn’t a “pure” libertarian be in favor of equal opportunity regardless of gender or class of origin? Of course, many libertarians might disagree profoundly with other liberals about the best way to bring this about, but I don’t think you have to apologize in any way for wanting equal opportunities for all. It’s not in conflict with your philosophy, as far as I can tell.&lt;/i&gt;

That's what I believe. But, well, if you can get two libertarians to agree on something, one of them is just being polite.

In general, Lucia is correct - most libertarians will reject affirmative action and other corrective measures aimed at social inequity. On a macro view, I agree with that - my primary guiding political instinct is to question why government should be involved at all on any given question, and accept the times when it turns out that it should be as a suboptimal but needed corrective. 

In the case of race, class and feminist issues, I tend to lean more U.S.-liberal. That's probably the result of growing up very poor and then going to an absurdly expensive potted-ivy liberal arts school that I never would have attended without government intervention, in order to have my mind warped by a host of what David Horowitz surely assumes are direct imports from the various circles of hell. (OK, I'll say it. Wesleyan.) My pals over at Reason will hate me for this, but the personal is most certainly political, which is how I became a libertarian in the first place.

Just to keep the edge on, I do think that any such measures should be considered as corrective remedy - that is, they should sunset when no longer needed. The hard part is determining when, and by what measure, that situation occurs. Which leads to my other favorite political debate topic, which is policy dynamics. But that starts getting very far-afield, so I'll shut up now.


Amp: thanks for the kind words. This dynamic has been bugging me for a while, and I don't know how to go about trying to fix it. I've tried engaging people who do it, but (and sorry for the metaphor - I'm involved in software development that frequently involves security analysis, and that warps a person) the problem is that it is a protocol attack - rather than looking for winning through normal or even underhanded means within the rules of engagement, it attacks the channel of communication itself. That's why it is so insidious. Identifying it for what it is seems to be a first step, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Wouldn’t a “pure” libertarian be in favor of equal opportunity regardless of gender or class of origin? Of course, many libertarians might disagree profoundly with other liberals about the best way to bring this about, but I don’t think you have to apologize in any way for wanting equal opportunities for all. It’s not in conflict with your philosophy, as far as I can tell.</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s what I believe. But, well, if you can get two libertarians to agree on something, one of them is just being polite.</p>
<p>In general, Lucia is correct - most libertarians will reject affirmative action and other corrective measures aimed at social inequity. On a macro view, I agree with that - my primary guiding political instinct is to question why government should be involved at all on any given question, and accept the times when it turns out that it should be as a suboptimal but needed corrective. </p>
<p>In the case of race, class and feminist issues, I tend to lean more U.S.-liberal. That&#8217;s probably the result of growing up very poor and then going to an absurdly expensive potted-ivy liberal arts school that I never would have attended without government intervention, in order to have my mind warped by a host of what David Horowitz surely assumes are direct imports from the various circles of hell. (OK, I&#8217;ll say it. Wesleyan.) My pals over at Reason will hate me for this, but the personal is most certainly political, which is how I became a libertarian in the first place.</p>
<p>Just to keep the edge on, I do think that any such measures should be considered as corrective remedy - that is, they should sunset when no longer needed. The hard part is determining when, and by what measure, that situation occurs. Which leads to my other favorite political debate topic, which is policy dynamics. But that starts getting very far-afield, so I&#8217;ll shut up now.</p>
<p>Amp: thanks for the kind words. This dynamic has been bugging me for a while, and I don&#8217;t know how to go about trying to fix it. I&#8217;ve tried engaging people who do it, but (and sorry for the metaphor - I&#8217;m involved in software development that frequently involves security analysis, and that warps a person) the problem is that it is a protocol attack - rather than looking for winning through normal or even underhanded means within the rules of engagement, it attacks the channel of communication itself. That&#8217;s why it is so insidious. Identifying it for what it is seems to be a first step, though.</p>
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		<title>By: ms_xeno</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198622</link>
		<dc:creator>ms_xeno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 03:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198622</guid>
		<description>I haven't been watching the ads or reading the campaign spam, and I'm keeping it that way.  That, and periodic visits to blogs like Madman in the Marketplace or Opera Glasses and Popcorn, are the only things keeping me sane right now.  &#62;:  I have little interest in figuring out how to be more civilized in debate with people I can't ever hope to agree with on anything substantive.  I'm more interested in getting better at walking away from debates that can't ever go anywhere good.  I hate to say it, but if a debate is ruinous to your emotions and a timesucker from more promising prospects, you have every right to "shut it down" in your own space or walk away from spaces where you feel like the target in a turkey shoot.  In fact, I think Amp made a similar point defending Violet Socks' behavior in her own space just a couple of weeks ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t been watching the ads or reading the campaign spam, and I&#8217;m keeping it that way.  That, and periodic visits to blogs like Madman in the Marketplace or Opera Glasses and Popcorn, are the only things keeping me sane right now.  &gt;:  I have little interest in figuring out how to be more civilized in debate with people I can&#8217;t ever hope to agree with on anything substantive.  I&#8217;m more interested in getting better at walking away from debates that can&#8217;t ever go anywhere good.  I hate to say it, but if a debate is ruinous to your emotions and a timesucker from more promising prospects, you have every right to &#8220;shut it down&#8221; in your own space or walk away from spaces where you feel like the target in a turkey shoot.  In fact, I think Amp made a similar point defending Violet Socks&#8217; behavior in her own space just a couple of weeks ago.</p>
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		<title>By: lucia</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198580</link>
		<dc:creator>lucia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 23:07:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198580</guid>
		<description>RonF: 
Duckworth does come from slightly outside the district.  She lives in Hoffman Estates in a house that has been remodeled to accomodate her needs.  Part of Hoffman Estates is in the sixth district, part is not. She lives just a tiny bit outside the district.   Roskam emphasizes the fact she  lives outside the district in his campaign. I suspect that strategy cuts both ways.  Yes, people learn she lives just a &lt;i&gt;tiny&lt;/i&gt; bit outside the district. Voters are also reminded that she lives in that particular house because she is a double amputee Iraq war veteran who was shot down! 

Also, I saw Duckworth during a channel 11 television interview with Roskam. Duckworth is  very well spoken, which is hardly suprising when you learn she a commissioned officer and combat helicopter pilot. She was  in the military reserves working toward her Ph. D. at NIU when she was deployed to Iraq.  

She is one sharp cookie.  It's &lt;i&gt;still&lt;/i&gt; amazing she can get any traction in that district, but she sure is!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RonF:<br />
Duckworth does come from slightly outside the district.  She lives in Hoffman Estates in a house that has been remodeled to accomodate her needs.  Part of Hoffman Estates is in the sixth district, part is not. She lives just a tiny bit outside the district.   Roskam emphasizes the fact she  lives outside the district in his campaign. I suspect that strategy cuts both ways.  Yes, people learn she lives just a <i>tiny</i> bit outside the district. Voters are also reminded that she lives in that particular house because she is a double amputee Iraq war veteran who was shot down! </p>
<p>Also, I saw Duckworth during a channel 11 television interview with Roskam. Duckworth is  very well spoken, which is hardly suprising when you learn she a commissioned officer and combat helicopter pilot. She was  in the military reserves working toward her Ph. D. at NIU when she was deployed to Iraq.  </p>
<p>She is one sharp cookie.  It&#8217;s <i>still</i> amazing she can get any traction in that district, but she sure is!</p>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198569</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 22:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Lucia's right.  Duckworth winning in Henry Hyde's old district would have been almost unimaginable even a couple of months ago.  Selecting a disabled war veteran to move into his district (I believe I'm right on that,but I'll stand correction) was very clever of the Illinois Democrats, but then the Illinois Reflublicans stand the old joke on it's head ("I'm not a member of an organized political party, I'm a Democrat!").

She's a political novice, too - she's never even been on a Park District or School Board, so she has absolutely no record to defend.  And Roskam has been running, from what ads I've seen, a very attack-oriented campaign, which doesn't play well against a female who lost her legs in military service.  I don't agree with Ms. Duckworth's politics, but she (or, more likely, the Democratic party) has run a much better campaign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lucia&#8217;s right.  Duckworth winning in Henry Hyde&#8217;s old district would have been almost unimaginable even a couple of months ago.  Selecting a disabled war veteran to move into his district (I believe I&#8217;m right on that,but I&#8217;ll stand correction) was very clever of the Illinois Democrats, but then the Illinois Reflublicans stand the old joke on it&#8217;s head (&#8221;I&#8217;m not a member of an organized political party, I&#8217;m a Democrat!&#8221;).</p>
<p>She&#8217;s a political novice, too - she&#8217;s never even been on a Park District or School Board, so she has absolutely no record to defend.  And Roskam has been running, from what ads I&#8217;ve seen, a very attack-oriented campaign, which doesn&#8217;t play well against a female who lost her legs in military service.  I don&#8217;t agree with Ms. Duckworth&#8217;s politics, but she (or, more likely, the Democratic party) has run a much better campaign.</p>
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		<title>By: Ampersand</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198541</link>
		<dc:creator>Ampersand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 19:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks to Dianne and Lucia and everyone else who has posted with kind thoughts for me. I was feeling bummed when I wrote this post, it's true.

My favorite thing in this thread so far is this, from Fishbane:

&lt;blockquote&gt;And the interesting thing is that nearly everyone now seeks to shut down debate, rather than talk about things. It isn’t even about civility (be rude to me: I don’t care, I live in Brooklyn) - the tactic is to dominate and shut down the conversation.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This paragraph seems exactly right to me. Thank you for putting into words something I was grasping for....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to Dianne and Lucia and everyone else who has posted with kind thoughts for me. I was feeling bummed when I wrote this post, it&#8217;s true.</p>
<p>My favorite thing in this thread so far is this, from Fishbane:</p>
<blockquote><p>And the interesting thing is that nearly everyone now seeks to shut down debate, rather than talk about things. It isn’t even about civility (be rude to me: I don’t care, I live in Brooklyn) - the tactic is to dominate and shut down the conversation.</p></blockquote>
<p>This paragraph seems exactly right to me. Thank you for putting into words something I was grasping for&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: lucia</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198538</link>
		<dc:creator>lucia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 19:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198538</guid>
		<description>I wanted to also encourage Barry to buck up. Peggy Noonan wrote an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal with content similar to John Cole's opinion piece. 

So it's not just one Republican saying this sort of thing. I think these just the first big bubbles to come to the surface.  (To extend the metaphor, living in Dupage County, like a fish under the surface, I first started seeing smaller bubbles forming rising as I sat at a block party last Sept.)

Oh... and totally off topic.... did you hear about Ann Coulter's troubles?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wanted to also encourage Barry to buck up. Peggy Noonan wrote an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal with content similar to John Cole&#8217;s opinion piece. </p>
<p>So it&#8217;s not just one Republican saying this sort of thing. I think these just the first big bubbles to come to the surface.  (To extend the metaphor, living in Dupage County, like a fish under the surface, I first started seeing smaller bubbles forming rising as I sat at a block party last Sept.)</p>
<p>Oh&#8230; and totally off topic&#8230;. did you hear about Ann Coulter&#8217;s troubles?</p>
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		<title>By: lucia</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198533</link>
		<dc:creator>lucia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 19:05:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198533</guid>
		<description>RonF, I just read this!!

&lt;a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/01/AR2006110100890.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Results in key House races: Reuters poll&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;i&gt;ILLINOIS 6 - Democrat Tammy Duckworth, a veteran who lost both her legs in Iraq, moved well ahead of Republican Peter Roskam. &lt;b&gt;She leads by 54 percent to 40 percent&lt;/b&gt; in a suburban Chicago battle to replace retiring Republican Rep. Henry Hyde.&lt;/i&gt;

I know people outside Illinois won't quite understand the significance of a Democrat taking that seat in the &lt;i&gt;heart&lt;/i&gt; of Dupage County-- that district holds the county seat. The county where Alan Keyes dared make his speeches when stumping for Senator.  

This could still turn around -- but the idea a Democrat could lead this race even for a millisecond would have been unthinkable in 2004!  Duckworth (D) winning would be &lt;i&gt;major!&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RonF, I just read this!!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/01/AR2006110100890.html" rel="nofollow">Results in key House races: Reuters poll</a></p>
<p><i>ILLINOIS 6 - Democrat Tammy Duckworth, a veteran who lost both her legs in Iraq, moved well ahead of Republican Peter Roskam. <b>She leads by 54 percent to 40 percent</b> in a suburban Chicago battle to replace retiring Republican Rep. Henry Hyde.</i></p>
<p>I know people outside Illinois won&#8217;t quite understand the significance of a Democrat taking that seat in the <i>heart</i> of Dupage County&#8211; that district holds the county seat. The county where Alan Keyes dared make his speeches when stumping for Senator.  </p>
<p>This could still turn around &#8212; but the idea a Democrat could lead this race even for a millisecond would have been unthinkable in 2004!  Duckworth (D) winning would be <i>major!</i></p>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198532</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 18:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198532</guid>
		<description>Talk about respectful discourse; first Kerry makes a gratuitous slur against the military (yes, I know that this is a Republican talking point, but it's also how I interpreted it when I heard it), and then the Republicans spin up a huge effort to cram it down his throat when (news flash!) Kerry isn't even running.  Both parties spinning against each other, when real issues go undiscussed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Talk about respectful discourse; first Kerry makes a gratuitous slur against the military (yes, I know that this is a Republican talking point, but it&#8217;s also how I interpreted it when I heard it), and then the Republicans spin up a huge effort to cram it down his throat when (news flash!) Kerry isn&#8217;t even running.  Both parties spinning against each other, when real issues go undiscussed.</p>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198530</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 18:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198530</guid>
		<description>I keep watching those Roskam/Duckworth election ads.  Apparently, Duckworth is going to stand at the U.S. Mexico border and give all my money to illegal aliens, and Roskam will be standing next to her eating their babies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I keep watching those Roskam/Duckworth election ads.  Apparently, Duckworth is going to stand at the U.S. Mexico border and give all my money to illegal aliens, and Roskam will be standing next to her eating their babies.</p>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198528</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 18:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198528</guid>
		<description>The Republican party used to be the party that respected "that government governs best that governs least"; now it's a Big Government party that simply wants to use Big Government for it's own aims instead of leaving the determination and attainment of those aims to "the States or the people, respectively."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Republican party used to be the party that respected &#8220;that government governs best that governs least&#8221;; now it&#8217;s a Big Government party that simply wants to use Big Government for it&#8217;s own aims instead of leaving the determination and attainment of those aims to &#8220;the States or the people, respectively.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: lucia</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198525</link>
		<dc:creator>lucia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 18:41:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/11/01/a-whiney-post-about-faking-respectful-discourse/#comment-198525</guid>
		<description>Diane asks: &lt;i&gt;Wouldn’t a “pure” libertarian be in favor of equal opportunity regardless of gender or class of origin?"&lt;/i&gt;

Go to the small 'l' liberatarian blogs and you will discover the libertarians will answe "yes" quite resoundingly.That said, they tend to disfavor affirmitive action, large entitlement programs etc.   

The key difference of opinion between most small 'l' libertarians and the policies of the large 'D' democratic party has been how to best achieve the goal of equal opportunity for all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Diane asks: <i>Wouldn’t a “pure” libertarian be in favor of equal opportunity regardless of gender or class of origin?&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Go to the small &#8216;l&#8217; liberatarian blogs and you will discover the libertarians will answe &#8220;yes&#8221; quite resoundingly.That said, they tend to disfavor affirmitive action, large entitlement programs etc.   </p>
<p>The key difference of opinion between most small &#8216;l&#8217; libertarians and the policies of the large &#8216;D&#8217; democratic party has been how to best achieve the goal of equal opportunity for all.</p>
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