Contrast the dangers of a false accusation*, which are direct and immediate to the accused person.

Right, but there is also a specific person in those cases who can be held accountable if that false accusation is proven beyond a reasonable doubt. But harm that is pervasive and indirect is still harm and shouldn’t be dismissed when talking about false accusations.

This spoofing can be dangerous when unchallenged in that it reflects and confirms many people’s stereotypes about alleged rape victims. Some of those people will end up being jurors in rape trials. The attacks on alleged rape victims can also escalate to direct criminal behavior by someone who reads this sort of nonsense where it is treated as truthful and decides to act outside the law.

I didn’t answer “dangerous” in the negative.

I agree that “Mary Doe” is at considerable risk of physical harm. I deeply regret that, and utterly condemn those who would threaten her safety, as well as those, who try to inflame the situation by posting crap like this. But even if she were to be attacked by someone who had been influenced by his post, it is unlikely to have been the sole influence, or even a major influence on that person.

Contrast the dangers of a false accusation*, which are direct and immediate to the accused person.

Jurors are also influence by statements like this:

Research actually suggests, though, that numbers of false allegations of rape are no higher than for any other crime.

There’s no such research, nor any evidence to support that claim. Unlike “stripper” and your anonymous commenter, who can only spew their crap about the cesspool of the web, Ms. Bindel gets her false assertions published without challenge in a respected Newspaper.

*Antifeminist typically fail to distinguish between ‘allegations’ (”I was raped”) and ‘accusations’ (”Joe Sixpack raped me”). Accusations are the subclass of allegations which identify a perp.

Malicious? Unquestionably. Dangerous? I’m not saying it’s harmless, but there’s no way this could result in police action against the woman. You wouldn’t have approved it it you thought it was that dangerous.

This spoofing can be dangerous when unchallenged in that it reflects and confirms many people’s stereotypes about alleged rape victims. Some of those people will end up being jurors in rape trials. The attacks on alleged rape victims can also escalate to direct criminal behavior by someone who reads this sort of nonsense where it is treated as truthful and decides to act outside the law.

A man was convicted of trying to hire someone to murder the alleged victim in the Kobe Bryant trial. Other alleged rape victims have been murdered. Many others feel it is their right to make anonymous death threats against alleged victims.

If you think rapists and those who support rapists don’t feed off this sort of nonsense to excuse continued criminal behavior, you are wrong.

Just because the number is unkown doesn’t mean it must be assumed to be zero. If proof is needed, then there must also be proof that the number is indeed zero from who claim that’s the accurate number.

The reason many of the descriptions about women who lie about rape is so narrow when they bother to define it at all is they want to exclude all the common scenarios where men are known to lie about rape and other sex crimes. But the claim (and proof) that girls and women lie about rape is not limited to occurances where a girl or woman goes to the police and says, “I’ve been raped and I’d like to file charges.”

I approved Stripper’s comment because it is a false accusation against a specific person through impersonation.

I agree.

I apply a strong presumption of truth to people’s descriptions of themselves and their personal experiences, but not a limitless one. What first triggered my bullshit detector was this:

stripper:

A feminist friend of mine told me if I claimed I was raped, I could redeem myself and reputation.

When I criticise feminists, I try to keep it real. I can’t imagine any feminist saying such a thing.

Odds are far in favor of Stripper being a man, maybe even Anonymous. So, Daran, women don’t have a monopoly on false accusations. Just because they often hide their identity doesn’t mean they aren’t out there and every bit as malicious, and dangerous (directly or indirectly), as women who lie about being raped.

Malicious? Unquestionably. Dangerous? I’m not saying it’s harmless, but there’s no way this could result in police action against the woman. You wouldn’t have approved it it you thought it was that dangerous.

In any case the claim is that a person falsely claiming to the police that they were raped is a uniquely female claim. Please refute that if you can; I’m genuinely interested in finding out about unusual cases. Alternatively you can dismiss it on the grounds of irrelevance - I only raised it because I misunderstood what Q Grrl said.

Guys who looked like they were packing huge equipment sometimes where packing “happy meal” toys, while guys you would least expect would be packing man-size equipment that would make any girl’s mouth water and pusy sweat.

One day I had sex with three boys in the bathroom of my boyfriend’s house, and I immediately got a reputation f being easy. That reputation was a double edged sword. On the positive side, I got more guys than ever, but on the negative side everyone knew. Even in this age of “equal rights” girls still suppose to not like having sex. Strangely, feminist are the ones perpetuating this myth. A feminist friend of mine told me if I claimed I was raped, I could redeem myself and reputation. I could blame my avid hunger for sex on “being abused at an early age”. She even suggested that I claim I was raped by my father. My reputation would be instantly vindicated as I enjoyed all the powers and benefits of being a “victim”.

Years later when I was being dishonorable discharged from the Navy for having sex with over half the men and few of the women in my squad, I claimed I was raped, but since many of my sexcapades were video taped, I didn’t want to risk being caught in a lie because I couldn’t remember which guys and gals video taped me and which ones didn’t, so I made a claim in 1996 that I was raped by three boys when I was in high school.

It was tough living the lie, and I wasn’t interested in being in the Navy anymore. A friend told me I could make tons of money by marrying a man, having his child, then leaving him forcing him to pay child support which can take up to 60% of his net pay. If I had children from three different guys, I could collect over one thousand dollars of tax free child support each month for 18 years, but that plan fell through because I married a loser who found out I gave birth to another man’s child while married to him. My ex-husband tried to gain custody of my child, but I didn’t want to pay child support to him, so in 1998 I claimed that he kidnapped me and tried to kill me.

I’ve been a stripper/prostitute/escort for awhile now, and I’ve been taking a few classes at UCNC in hopes to recruit a few girls of my own to pimp out. One night in 2002 I was having a particular good night, so I partied a little too hard, gave a public lap dance to a cab driver, when he wouldn’t have sex with me in exchange for cab fare, I stole his cab, and when the cops tried to stop me, I tried to kill them. I’m still on probation for that little incident.

Earlier this year in 2006, I was working my ass off – literally! I had sex with a “client”, then with my boyfriend, then with a battery vaginal sex toy, then with two guys in exchange for a ride to the lacrosse party. The boys were pissed because I arrived so wasted. I had my routine party drugs that evening and I was feeling grrrrrreate! I stumbled all over the place, and after five minutes I wanted to leave. After why not? I already was paid. My stripper friend, “K”, was arguing with the boys over us taking the money without providing a show. She called them racial slurs and they responded in kind, but to get them back, she called 911 and lied claiming that we were only driving by and racial slurs were being yelled at us. We laughed and laughed that the 911 –people could be so stupid.

I was so wasted that I forgot my money and phone at the boys’ house, but the $400.00 “K” didn’t want to slpit her take with me, so she called the cops to have me arrested. I drank the last of my booze and took the last of my party drugs so the cops wouldn’t atke it. By the time the cops arrived I was feeling “fffffffine!” And that’s when it hit me! I was being arrested for … oh I forgot, but to get out of it I claimed rape. That always works. I was surprised they believed me. My story was wild and a fantastic fantasy, but I had no evidence to back it up. I only had a little scratch on my knee from when I fell when I was totally wasted, and a little scrape on my ankle. The doctor and the nurse checked my pusy. I really enjoyed that. I’m thinking of having pap smears every week. I love laying there naked with my legs up and cold metal probes are inserted into my vagina. I must have had four orgasms just waiting there.

The local DA, he’s such a loser, wanted so badly to get elected that he cherry picked every piece of evidence to make a case. No doubt he’s worried I’d contradict myself even more. It’s hard to remember a lie when you don’t really give a damn about it. All I wanted was to get out of getting arrested that night. All he cared about was making national news. He said it was better than sex, and I would agree. In college, the DA should have spent less time with his head in books, and more time learning how to please a woman. You’d figure a white man with such a small penis would make up the difference with some kind of technique.

It’s amazing how feminist groups and racist groups are fast to jump on cases like this. I figure I can make bucks on the movie right alone. I thin it’s a laugh how news anchors like Nancy and Wendy twist and stretch any evidence or story to make sure people believe a rape actually occurred, but when someone points out that the evidence proves the rape didn’t really exist, both Nancy and Wendy claim that others are twisting and stretching the evidence. Talk about the kettle calling the pot black. Nancy and Wendy are my heroes. They have no integrity and that’s probably how they got where they are. Girls like Nancy, Wendy, and me should stick together. Using victimhood as a weapon and tool for personal gains will get us rich! I kinda feel sorry for those boys though, but you can’t make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.

I don’t think people like anonymous really care about the answers to these questions. Complexity of issues detracts from the rhetoric of false rape accusations.

Oh I agree. People like ‘anonymous’ don’t ‘think’ at all, in the sense of engaging their brains to synthesise new ideas. The word-for-word identical comment as far as I can see has been posted elsewhere with no attempt to relate it to whatever was said, while the washing bill of purported “evidence” has been spammed all over the net.

This isn’t debate. It’s Duckspeak.

I know that in the UK, for about a quarter of all reported rapes, no suspect is ever identified. Of the rest, about 90% do not result in a rape conviction (though in some cases the suspect is convicted of other offences)

Cases fail at various stages in the process, because it is determined, rightly or wrongly, that there is no reasonable chance of securing a conviction. I don’t know what proportion fail because of reasonable doubt about whether the crime occured at all, as opposed to doubt about the perpetrators identity.

Most victim’s in murder trials are generally not the accuser and thus the comparison is invalid (them being dead is generally an impediment to an accusation).

I’m not sure that’s true from anonymous’s perspective since he seems to be including reports of child sex abuse which makes the alleged false accuser someone other than the victim. Parents of murdered children do make statements publicly about who they believe murdered their child before a trial finds that person guilty. Sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong — either about the identity of the murderer or whether the death was a homicide.

I doubt anonymous would villify relatives of someone murdered (or believed to be murdered) the way he does girls and women who go through proper channels to report rape or sexual abuse.

you seem to have understood my point

So you’re saying that if a rape victim can name her rapist, it’s unlikely that the police will go out and arrest someone else?

Because that’s the only way I can make sense of what you said as it was written.

To realize how delightfully absurd this argument is, I like to replace “rape” with “murder”. Murder is a terrible crime and ought to be decried, but I think we should stop referring to “victims” of murder, but rather “alleged victims” of murder. And furthermore, until a trial establishes guilt, we must never assume guilt. Kinda like how John Wilkes Boothe never was tried for assassinating Lincoln, thus we must assume Boothe is innocent, ergo Lincoln is still alive.

There’s no general objection to talking about victims of murder, rape, or even of false accusations. (I talk about rape victims here, for example, with not an “alleged” in sight.) Nor is there a problem with talking about their murderers, rapists, and false accusers. The problem arises when we talk about rapists, victims, etc., in a context and from a viewpoint where it it not known or established that this is what they are. For example:

At the end of the trial, the jury will retire to decide whether or not to convict the rapist.

Contrast:

One purpose of rape shield laws is to protect victims from abusive questioning.

which is OK because that really is the intent. The effect, on the other hand, is to protect complainants whether or not they are victims.

Similar problems arise in specific cases where it has been alleged that one of these crimes has been committed, and we use language that assumes the very point at issue. For example, there are serious questions about whether the alleged rape at the Duke frat house even happened. Yet we rightly object to the alleged victim being branded a “false accuser” in the absence of court-established proof (meaning her conviction for perjury or a similar charge, not merely the acquittal of her alleged rapists). The men involved have also been branded “rapists”, and that’s just as objectionable.

Daran, I did not mean to say alleged victim, but you seem to have understood my point, though perhaps not the larger purpose. I was not arguing that its impossible that the police will have the wrong man, but instead arguing that theft is not a good analogy for rape. i tend to think the legal system is not well set up to deal with this crime; its assumptions and requirements combined with sexist cultural framework mean sthat court is doubly traumatic for rape victims and justice is often not served.

Are there civil trials about rape? that might be another way to go…

Also in cases like Wilkes Boothe (if my sketchy history of the US is correct) we had witnesses to prove that he did it, I will go out on a limb and say that most rape cases don’t have witnesses again making the comparison invalid.

Was the defendant in this case accused by anyone? If not, how come he ended up in the dock? If so, was he falsely accused? If not, in what way was the accusation true?
If so, then who was his false accuser?

I don’t think people like anonymous really care about the answers to these questions. Complexity of issues detracts from the rhetoric of false rape accusations.

but if the rape victim can name her perpetrator, its less likely that she can both be a victim of that rape and that the police have the wrong guy.

The first part of that is almost redundant. It is impossible for a “rape victim” not to be a “victim of rape”. If a “rape victim” can name her “perpetrator”, the only way the police could get the “wrong guy” is by arresting someone other than the person she named. (I noticed you actually said “victim of that rape”, but I’m not sure how this changes anything.)

Or did you mean to say that if an alleged rape victim names an individual as her rapist, then it’s less likely that she can both be a victim of that rape and that the police have the wrong guy?

Less likely, yes, but not impossible. Also complainants frequently identify suspects without naming them, for example from photos or line-ups. Mistaken identity by both police, alleged victim, and other witnesses is a significant factor in false convictions.

He was nevertheless convicted on the strength of DNA evidence, and later acquitted on appeal (after serving time in prison) when that evidence was shown to be faulty.

Was the defendant in this case accused by anyone? If not, how come he ended up in the dock?
If so, was he falsely accused? If not, in what way was the accusation true?
If so, then who was his false accuser?

I once put these questions to one of these “false rape accusation” nutjobs. He never replied.

I agree that “accuser” is an extremely loaded term, and I avoid using it whenever I can. I routinely use “complainant” or “alledged victim”, but these are problematic too. “Complainant” plays to the stereotype of a whining woman, while “alleged victim” is inappropriate when the viewpoint is the alleged victim herself.

I don’t have a good solution to the problem, but I’m willing to consider suggestions.