ms_xeno’s point was not that we should have done so, but that we didn’t, because we don’t do that.

Yep.

Daran’s no fool. I think he knew that all along, but thanks for writing that, Charles. It’s appreciated. Frankly, my skills at theory could fit on the head of a pin with room left over for a case of Fresca. Yet I seldom if ever have trouble parsing Qgrrl’s posts. I have a nagging suspicion that Daran doesn’t, either. :/

I saw you visited, and thanks for that, but I don’t know whether you saw that post, or realised it was in reply to you.

I think your problem actually has more to do with an inability on your part to parse nuance and context. QGrrl’s comment was not some sort of incoherent scream that couldn’t be parsed for meaning (an extremely insulting description by the way- indeed, there is a strong undertone of “I am the paragon of reason, incapable of understanding your irrationality” throughout that comment), it just couldn’t be parsed for meaning by you. Qgrrl’s comment was of the perfectly standard “Why don’t people I disagree with about X also say Z about Y, which would be consistent with what they say about X?” formulation. Such a statement is basically never intended to mean that people who the writer disagrees with about X should say Z about Y. It usually means that to be consistent, they should say Z about Y, which would also be wrong. It means that those people’s position is incoherent, wrong and probably dishonest.

Surely, you’ve encountered that rhetorical device before, but perhaps you are always baffled by it?

Reading back through this thread, I remain baffled by how you misread mx_xeno’s comment about jaketk in the manner you did, but it certainly wasn’t because of incoherence on her part. My only guess is that seeing a friend spoken ill of made you start misreading everything relating to him. ms_xeno brought him up as an example of how feminists don’t accuse even the most annoying and disruptive of their anti-feminist opponents of lying about having been raped. No one suggested that jaketk was a rape denialist, and no one suggested that jaketk was lying about being raped. ms_xeno brought him up as an example of someone against whom people here had sufficient ill will that, if they (we) were going to accuse any man of lying about having been raped (not because of anything about his story, but simply out of hostility and a desire to shut him up), jaketk would have been they guy. ms_xeon’s point was not that we should have done so, but that we didn’t, because we don’t do that.

This exchange, and particularly your reaction to it, has been baffling me for ages, and I do think you having Aspergers is part of the explanation, but not in the way you suggests.

Does anyone remember the film “Rain Man“, and how the titular character, a profoundly autistic “savant”, was enraptured by the Abbott and Costello Skit “Who’s on First?” To him it’s a puzzle. He tries to figure out what it means, but he can’t solve the problem, because there is no solution. It doesn’t mean anything. But Raymond can’t see this, so he keeps on trying to figure it out.

I am an Aspie. Asperger’s syndrome is a neurological condition classified as an Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD). How these conditions relate to each other, indeed whether there is a true difference between Asperger’s, “traditional” (Kammer’s) Autism, “Savantism”, and other ASDs and whether it should even be considered a “disorder” are highly contested issues. For me, it creates difficulties in interpetting some neurotypical (meaning non-ASD) utterances.

It was me who derailed the thread, in comment #4, and I’m very sorry for that. I didn’t realise that Q Grrl’s comment #3 wasn’t intended to be parsed for meaning. It wasn’t even grammatical. It was the textual equivalent of a scream. If Q Grrl wants to scream at antifeminists, who am I to say she can’t?

But I did try to parse if for meaning, and the meaning I got out of it was the proposition ‘Those who say “women lie about rape” should also say “men lie about rape”‘. Since I disagree that antifeminists should be required to say “men lie about rape” I proceeded to argue against that proposition. Everything that has happened in this thread since then (apart from a second derailment initiated by what I guess was another scream, this time by ms_xeno) has been a series of arguments, counter-arguments, and counter-counter-arguments between Darain Man, and the rest of you, in support of our various position as to who exactly is on first. And we’re still arguing it.

It’s an interesting question, and if anyone else is interested, I suggest we continue the discussion here. But I think I should let the rest of you folk get back to discussing the real topic, which was Marcella’s original post.

You may now all commence (or resume) screaming at me.

Posted to Alas. Also crossposted to Creative Destruction and Daran’s Blog.

He makes “men lie about rape” equivalent to “men have been convicted of lying to the police (using their real names) about being raped” and attacks the former statement as if it were the latter.

He goes so far as to decide that all men who call rape lines with the story that they’ve been raped are telling the truth. It’s all those women answering rape crisis lines who are at fault for not recognizing that male crank or obscene callers are really rape victims.

He doesn’t even consider the possibility that these male callers are intentionally exploiting those who answer rape crisis lines by posing as rape victims. He also doesn’t seem to view these men as harming real male rape victims.

Rarely do non-feminists give women this same benefit of the doubt. That speaks volumes about a deep seated bias against women.

FWIW, from what I’ve heard, there are some women who make those kinds of obsessive calls, too. The impression I got of the women who used to call ’round my area was that they were less perverted, and more sort of schizophrenic. :(

So the claim that men never lie about being raped is false.

I think I’ve had my fill of this for the day.

You and me both. >:

Yeah, regarding SYG. I have relegated the trolls who write in blackface and one who I guess heard me do a radio show a couple months and is howling about that.

I did get some nice interesting traffic this week on my site, thanks to the New York Times who posted a link to one of my articles on its site.