http://girl-wonder.org/girlsreadcomics/index.php?entry=entry060617-123610

http://www.heroplay.com/features/articles/display.php?id=27

Well, let’s not get too broad here. It is more realistic to better video games than it is to better our entire cultural standpoint, even if it is the root problem. By using the excuse that games simply “reflect the culture,” you’re protecting everything misogynistic that “reflects the culture.” The “culture” needs to be examined from all entry points, and video games are unfortunately one of them.

That being said, I know you want to defend video games, and that’s fine with me. I love video games, including Grand Theft Auto, and I’ve never stolen a car either. But I’m not talking about video games CAUSING misogyny; I’m talking about them perpetuating, and even reinforcing the problems that already exist. And I feel it’s a little naive to say that the male-fantasy female characters exist for practical purposes only. After all, why do the males/females have to be so easily distinguished? And while there are exceptions, there is a serious lack of positive female video game characters to choose from (even Tony Hawk got rid of its few female skaters.) The women are typically victims to be killed, or victims to be saved, and both are clad just as skimpily.

By not disrespect I was implying that the characters are treated as intelligent human beings rather than sex objects or characters who act as brick walls to allow the main character to bounce explainations off of as plot devices (male characters also get this, though its generally treated in a more focused way - look a Jack O’Neill in Stargate as an example, his lack of technical knowledge is used in a humerous way rather than as just a sounding board).

The chainmail bikini aspect is one thats very much driven by culture, thats the way it is thus thats the way it will be kindof mentality. Ok there are exceptions to this rule however in general I believe its driven by the idea that people want to generally see idealised versions of people and indeed would like to see well toned “bodies” in preference to normal ones. Indeed it is influenced by male sexuality since in the majority of gamers are male (I think this is fairly well covered in the comic book thread). It may not be appropriate however when I see ads for perfume etc I don’t see a normal person, I see a “hunk” or a “babe”, airbrushed and posed to create an image they want and indeed we expect now.

I don’t know how to change this culture, in fact I can’t say it really worries me, I tend to go with the theory that if its not harming anyone then there isn’t a major problem. If you are using video games as an idea for body image or personality I think there may be a deeper issue rather than the video game itself. Look at Grand theft auto, I have played it and surprisingly I haven’t killed anyone yet, stolen any cars or any of the other items, indeed to simply blame games which reflect the culture which created them seems to focus on the wrong aspect, the messenger rather than the sender.

And that might be all well and good, except that for the most part the armoured characters come in two varieties - male characters armed to the teeth and female characters in chainmail bikinis and various other male-sexual-fantasy-costumes.

…about feminism? Somehow, I think it would be difficult to prove that there are a whole bunch of “great” aspects of mainstream video games as they deal with the kinds of feminist issues which were outlined in the post.

FWIW, I don’t really think “females were proportional” and “not disrespected” is great. First off, I doubt we’d agree on what sexist representations were, “proportional” or otherwise. Second, what you mean by “disrespect” isn’t clear.

I would take Metal Gear Solid as a much better representation (barring the “bonus” in the special missions disc) of women in games, the four main female characters were all proportionally modelled and generally treated with respect (Acts of disrespect in game brought admonishment from other characters and indeed damage in game). While not all games are balanced in their perspective I don’t think you can really look at an industry as a whole and say its bad when it has both terrible and great aspects (though realistically why the gender of a model in armour matters I will never know).

Thank you for this paragraph. I have seen a significant amount of geek-bashing on feminist blogs, and I am not sure why there is a such a particular hostility or why it helps feminism for feminists to reinforce stereotypes of male geeks. Exposing sexisim in various geek circles is a very good thing, but attributing it to some special attribute of geekiness just allows feminists to join in on bashing an already unpopular group in a manner somewhat hypocritical for a movement trying to challenge social prejudices. Although your suggestion that geeks, due to poor social skills, might be less adept at HIDING misogyny might explain some disproportionate hostility to geeks on the part of women.

Is there any evidence that geeks may be more or less misogynist than any other group of men?

I recall spending a lot of time in the old days trying to steer the jams to featuring more females who weren’t just brutalized Hefner fantasies. Usually it didn’t go over well. Hell, if I drew a female mad scientist with medium-length hair and a big labcoat, she’d be a man by the time the guy next to me added the next panel. Either they didn’t like having non-pinup females in the pictures, or they simply couldn’t perceive a human figure without boobs hanging out as anything other than a male. Maybe both those things are true, actually.

While most of these guys were fans of the Alt-Comic Journal variety, and still are, many of them still came out of the superhero tradition. Most of them also freely digested the male side of the underground movement without ever questioning its misogyny.

I can play the “one of the boys” game after all these years as well as anyone, but there are limits to how far or long I’ll go in the name of “family harmony.” mr_xeno and I left early…