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	<title>Comments on: Selling Sex A Deadly Game In N.J. City</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/12/17/selling-sex-a-deadly-game-in-nj-city/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/12/17/selling-sex-a-deadly-game-in-nj-city/</link>
	<description>Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:58:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Howard</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/12/17/selling-sex-a-deadly-game-in-nj-city/#comment-221384</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Dec 2006 22:45:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/12/17/selling-sex-a-deadly-game-in-nj-city/#comment-221384</guid>
		<description>Having vented some steam at the idea only certain ideas are "allowed", i'll add this and wish you happy holidays.

If your view is a world without prostitution, you can only hear "ex-prostitutes" and exclude 'prostituted women/men" from the discussion. By definition, you don't actually care what heppens to them, since you think they shouldn't exist. But they do. They are exactly who needs to be listened to. Your dream of a world without "sexual exploitation' (as defined by you) is a utopian fantasy. Like most utopian fantasies, it works by locking people up. Gee, thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having vented some steam at the idea only certain ideas are &#8220;allowed&#8221;, i&#8217;ll add this and wish you happy holidays.</p>
<p>If your view is a world without prostitution, you can only hear &#8220;ex-prostitutes&#8221; and exclude &#8216;prostituted women/men&#8221; from the discussion. By definition, you don&#8217;t actually care what heppens to them, since you think they shouldn&#8217;t exist. But they do. They are exactly who needs to be listened to. Your dream of a world without &#8220;sexual exploitation&#8217; (as defined by you) is a utopian fantasy. Like most utopian fantasies, it works by locking people up. Gee, thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Howard</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/12/17/selling-sex-a-deadly-game-in-nj-city/#comment-221375</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Dec 2006 22:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/12/17/selling-sex-a-deadly-game-in-nj-city/#comment-221375</guid>
		<description>I see the footer now. So you may feel free to hide this from public view. 

I object to your characterization of this post and site as pro-feminist. In truth, it is only pro-prohibition, pro-criminalization and views the women involved in prostitution as irrevalent to the discourse. You lack the integrity to admit a feminist can (and many do) disagree with prostitution criminalization. So your moderation is nothing less than pure censorship of anyone who disagrees with you.


There is, dare I say, a paternalistic element in upper class ideologues telling poor women/men prostitutes what their lives are. Here's an idea. Give a prostitute a job she can earn a living with. I have.

Criminalization of prostitutes and their customers (exploiters in your censored world view) has the same wonderful results as criminalization of drugs and alcohol. 

We know how wonderful that worked out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see the footer now. So you may feel free to hide this from public view. </p>
<p>I object to your characterization of this post and site as pro-feminist. In truth, it is only pro-prohibition, pro-criminalization and views the women involved in prostitution as irrevalent to the discourse. You lack the integrity to admit a feminist can (and many do) disagree with prostitution criminalization. So your moderation is nothing less than pure censorship of anyone who disagrees with you.</p>
<p>There is, dare I say, a paternalistic element in upper class ideologues telling poor women/men prostitutes what their lives are. Here&#8217;s an idea. Give a prostitute a job she can earn a living with. I have.</p>
<p>Criminalization of prostitutes and their customers (exploiters in your censored world view) has the same wonderful results as criminalization of drugs and alcohol. </p>
<p>We know how wonderful that worked out.</p>
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		<title>By: Abyss2hope</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/12/17/selling-sex-a-deadly-game-in-nj-city/#comment-221349</link>
		<dc:creator>Abyss2hope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Dec 2006 21:58:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/12/17/selling-sex-a-deadly-game-in-nj-city/#comment-221349</guid>
		<description>ADMIN: Future comments advocating for the legalization of prostitution are off-topic and will be deleted at my discretion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ADMIN: Future comments advocating for the legalization of prostitution are off-topic and will be deleted at my discretion.</p>
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		<title>By: Howard</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/12/17/selling-sex-a-deadly-game-in-nj-city/#comment-221332</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Dec 2006 21:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/12/17/selling-sex-a-deadly-game-in-nj-city/#comment-221332</guid>
		<description>Even though I have said nothing 'anti-feminist" you want to exclude my comments. I don't see anything identifying this thread as "feminist" so the moderation policy indicates I can comment.

** deleted **

Then please read the footer again where the restrictions are laid out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even though I have said nothing &#8216;anti-feminist&#8221; you want to exclude my comments. I don&#8217;t see anything identifying this thread as &#8220;feminist&#8221; so the moderation policy indicates I can comment.</p>
<p>** deleted **</p>
<p>Then please read the footer again where the restrictions are laid out.</p>
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		<title>By: Abyss2hope</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/12/17/selling-sex-a-deadly-game-in-nj-city/#comment-221304</link>
		<dc:creator>Abyss2hope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Dec 2006 19:38:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/12/17/selling-sex-a-deadly-game-in-nj-city/#comment-221304</guid>
		<description>Howard, I have listened to ex-prostitutes firsthand and am familiar with a couple of programs in my area designed to help them build new lives which have really helped their clients. The solution to ineffective help isn't to stop trying to help, it's to work to provide effective help.

Since this post is for those who are feminists and those who are feminist-friendly, it doesn't sound like you qualify to comment here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Howard, I have listened to ex-prostitutes firsthand and am familiar with a couple of programs in my area designed to help them build new lives which have really helped their clients. The solution to ineffective help isn&#8217;t to stop trying to help, it&#8217;s to work to provide effective help.</p>
<p>Since this post is for those who are feminists and those who are feminist-friendly, it doesn&#8217;t sound like you qualify to comment here.</p>
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		<title>By: Howard</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/12/17/selling-sex-a-deadly-game-in-nj-city/#comment-221295</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Dec 2006 19:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/12/17/selling-sex-a-deadly-game-in-nj-city/#comment-221295</guid>
		<description>In fact, you can listen to a street prostitute explaining how great her relations with law enforcement are here: 

http://streetwomen.org/Cathys%20page.htm

These are the true costs of prohibition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In fact, you can listen to a street prostitute explaining how great her relations with law enforcement are here: </p>
<p><a href="http://streetwomen.org/Cathys%20page.htm" rel="nofollow">http://streetwomen.org/Cathys%20page.htm</a></p>
<p>These are the true costs of prohibition.</p>
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		<title>By: Howard</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/12/17/selling-sex-a-deadly-game-in-nj-city/#comment-221292</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Dec 2006 19:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/12/17/selling-sex-a-deadly-game-in-nj-city/#comment-221292</guid>
		<description>Abyss2hope, I only wish that it was only sex slaves being rescued, but the truth is not so simple, and labelling things does nothing to make it so. See mother jones this month here: http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/2003/11/ma_570_01.html

I note also the same crowd banning condoms, exacting "anti-prostitution" pledges (more accurately anti-prostitute), denying reproductive choice and promoting abstinence only for HIV prevention--is the same bunch reunning around the world claiming to rescue brothel slaves. Watch the company you keep.

You are quick to label my observation of reality as a "position" rather than respond to the simple statement that we would do well to listen to women/men in prostitution themselves. Now there's a radical idea for you. Interested?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Abyss2hope, I only wish that it was only sex slaves being rescued, but the truth is not so simple, and labelling things does nothing to make it so. See mother jones this month here: <a href="http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/2003/11/ma_570_01.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/2003/11/ma_570_01.html</a></p>
<p>I note also the same crowd banning condoms, exacting &#8220;anti-prostitution&#8221; pledges (more accurately anti-prostitute), denying reproductive choice and promoting abstinence only for HIV prevention&#8211;is the same bunch reunning around the world claiming to rescue brothel slaves. Watch the company you keep.</p>
<p>You are quick to label my observation of reality as a &#8220;position&#8221; rather than respond to the simple statement that we would do well to listen to women/men in prostitution themselves. Now there&#8217;s a radical idea for you. Interested?</p>
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		<title>By: Abyss2hope</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/12/17/selling-sex-a-deadly-game-in-nj-city/#comment-221268</link>
		<dc:creator>Abyss2hope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Dec 2006 16:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/12/17/selling-sex-a-deadly-game-in-nj-city/#comment-221268</guid>
		<description>Howard, your suggestion thrusts ideology onto those in prostitution just as much as any other suggestion does. Especially notable is your position on the "rescue" of those being held as sex slaves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Howard, your suggestion thrusts ideology onto those in prostitution just as much as any other suggestion does. Especially notable is your position on the &#8220;rescue&#8221; of those being held as sex slaves.</p>
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		<title>By: Howard</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/12/17/selling-sex-a-deadly-game-in-nj-city/#comment-221235</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Dec 2006 13:06:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/12/17/selling-sex-a-deadly-game-in-nj-city/#comment-221235</guid>
		<description>Everytime I see horror stories like this one, I have to say that criminalization itself is a large cause of the conditions that allow for vicitimization of economically marginalized and drug addicted prostitutes.

It is not enough to paint "pimps and johns" as the villians, if we do nothing to protect the legal status and economic conditions of women involved in prostitution. 

There is nothing "leftist" in continuing the prohibition of sex trading, along with the radical right and their crazy christian allies. The English Prostitutes Collective and others have carefully documented the harm brought to actual prostitutes by the focus on prosecuting johns (it increases danger to streetwalkers, who must make hasty decisions about customers in fear of the police). Brothel "rescues" have a similarly bad result, where women flee from the self-appointed rescuers who have thrust them into worse conditions than they found them, imprisonment and deportation typical.

We would do well to pay attention to the experience and ideas of working prostitutes, instead of imposing ideology upon them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everytime I see horror stories like this one, I have to say that criminalization itself is a large cause of the conditions that allow for vicitimization of economically marginalized and drug addicted prostitutes.</p>
<p>It is not enough to paint &#8220;pimps and johns&#8221; as the villians, if we do nothing to protect the legal status and economic conditions of women involved in prostitution. </p>
<p>There is nothing &#8220;leftist&#8221; in continuing the prohibition of sex trading, along with the radical right and their crazy christian allies. The English Prostitutes Collective and others have carefully documented the harm brought to actual prostitutes by the focus on prosecuting johns (it increases danger to streetwalkers, who must make hasty decisions about customers in fear of the police). Brothel &#8220;rescues&#8221; have a similarly bad result, where women flee from the self-appointed rescuers who have thrust them into worse conditions than they found them, imprisonment and deportation typical.</p>
<p>We would do well to pay attention to the experience and ideas of working prostitutes, instead of imposing ideology upon them.</p>
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		<title>By: William O. Romine Jr.</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/12/17/selling-sex-a-deadly-game-in-nj-city/#comment-217635</link>
		<dc:creator>William O. Romine Jr.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Dec 2006 09:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/12/17/selling-sex-a-deadly-game-in-nj-city/#comment-217635</guid>
		<description>This is really sad.  I know in Germany in many areas prostitution is not
only legal but its a respected profession from what I've read in the literature.
I wonder what things are like for porn stars, as well.  I have always wondered
what happened to a porn star professionally and personally once she passed
her prime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is really sad.  I know in Germany in many areas prostitution is not<br />
only legal but its a respected profession from what I&#8217;ve read in the literature.<br />
I wonder what things are like for porn stars, as well.  I have always wondered<br />
what happened to a porn star professionally and personally once she passed<br />
her prime.</p>
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