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	<title>Comments on: Pope Calls Opposition To Death Penalty &#8220;Not Negotiable&#8221;; Media Misses It</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/</link>
	<description>Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 02:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ampersand</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-341178</link>
		<dc:creator>Ampersand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 17:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-341178</guid>
		<description>He said that before he was pope. Nonetheless, point well taken.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He said that before he was pope. Nonetheless, point well taken.</p>
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		<title>By: Bobby</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-341173</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 14:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-341173</guid>
		<description>The underlying premise of this discussion is wrong.  Ampersand takes the phrase "to natural death" and then concludes that this phrase makes death penalty not negotiable to Pope Benedict.  Like all brilliant thinkers, Benedict speaks very precisely.  Thus, it is likely he would have listed death penalty if he meant it.

But more importantly, and to the point, here is what Pope Benedict said on the precise issue being discussed:

"While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia."

The mainstream media has not missed a story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The underlying premise of this discussion is wrong.  Ampersand takes the phrase &#8220;to natural death&#8221; and then concludes that this phrase makes death penalty not negotiable to Pope Benedict.  Like all brilliant thinkers, Benedict speaks very precisely.  Thus, it is likely he would have listed death penalty if he meant it.</p>
<p>But more importantly, and to the point, here is what Pope Benedict said on the precise issue being discussed:</p>
<p>&#8220;While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.&#8221;</p>
<p>The mainstream media has not missed a story.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-262505</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2007 22:37:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-262505</guid>
		<description>Dianne,
It is disingenuous to say that the Catholic Church doesn't consider HIV prevention important.  They simply consider a concession to condom usage a greater long-term harm than the current epidemic and believe that it can be curbed by education.  

As for abortion, when you consider that the Church's position is that life begins at conception, the thousands of women who die from unsafe abortions cannot be compared to the millions of lives ended from the practice itself.  

To focus on a few issues that are entirely consistent with the mission and teachings of the Church deliberately overlooks the immense time and effort the Church has spent on social justice issues all over the world.

But then again most people only see what they look for.



Amp,
I don't think it is fair to call the Pope a "moral coward" either.  It is not the Pope's job to "stand up to the [American] right-wing".  Both Benedict and JPII were vocal against the war in Iraq and against torture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dianne,<br />
It is disingenuous to say that the Catholic Church doesn&#8217;t consider HIV prevention important.  They simply consider a concession to condom usage a greater long-term harm than the current epidemic and believe that it can be curbed by education.  </p>
<p>As for abortion, when you consider that the Church&#8217;s position is that life begins at conception, the thousands of women who die from unsafe abortions cannot be compared to the millions of lives ended from the practice itself.  </p>
<p>To focus on a few issues that are entirely consistent with the mission and teachings of the Church deliberately overlooks the immense time and effort the Church has spent on social justice issues all over the world.</p>
<p>But then again most people only see what they look for.</p>
<p>Amp,<br />
I don&#8217;t think it is fair to call the Pope a &#8220;moral coward&#8221; either.  It is not the Pope&#8217;s job to &#8220;stand up to the [American] right-wing&#8221;.  Both Benedict and JPII were vocal against the war in Iraq and against torture.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-261536</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-261536</guid>
		<description>Woops, wrong thread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woops, wrong thread.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-261535</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-261535</guid>
		<description>Wow, is the benefit ratio really 2:1 for women to men? More ammo for Sim's theory, I guess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, is the benefit ratio really 2:1 for women to men? More ammo for Sim&#8217;s theory, I guess.</p>
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		<title>By: mandolin</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-261335</link>
		<dc:creator>mandolin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2007 10:08:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-261335</guid>
		<description>I want to read that as teh funny sarcasm, but it's written by the egg&#38;sperm fetishist, so is it serious?

Watch out, all of you! We may, on other blogs, as we speak, be disrespecting a host of historical and mytho-historical figures.

Sup with the term "disrespect" in this context, anyway? We mustn't diss the dead? Pulling the euthanasia plug is too much like refusing to "get offa [the affected person's] lawn?" It's okay to abort fetuses as long as we do it with reverent faces?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to read that as teh funny sarcasm, but it&#8217;s written by the egg&amp;sperm fetishist, so is it serious?</p>
<p>Watch out, all of you! We may, on other blogs, as we speak, be disrespecting a host of historical and mytho-historical figures.</p>
<p>Sup with the term &#8220;disrespect&#8221; in this context, anyway? We mustn&#8217;t diss the dead? Pulling the euthanasia plug is too much like refusing to &#8220;get offa [the affected person's] lawn?&#8221; It&#8217;s okay to abort fetuses as long as we do it with reverent faces?</p>
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		<title>By: John Howard</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-259615</link>
		<dc:creator>John Howard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Mar 2007 07:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-259615</guid>
		<description>Until natural death isn't really long enough, actually.  I think we should not disrespect human life until unconception, which is when a person is totally forgotten about (which makes it impossible to ever disrespect a human life).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Until natural death isn&#8217;t really long enough, actually.  I think we should not disrespect human life until unconception, which is when a person is totally forgotten about (which makes it impossible to ever disrespect a human life).</p>
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		<title>By: Jewess &#187; Blog Roundup: Emergency Contraception, Food Art, Tefillin on Women</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-257208</link>
		<dc:creator>Jewess &#187; Blog Roundup: Emergency Contraception, Food Art, Tefillin on Women</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Mar 2007 13:41:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-257208</guid>
		<description>[...] -Salty femme shares a butternut squash, leek and potato soup recipe; gives us a heads up about submissions for a new feminist magazine, Make/Shift; and discusses the recent JAP debacle over at Jew School. -Life in Israel does the biggest roundup we&#8217;ve ever seen. Yasher koach! -Tashina Byrd, who was outrageously denied her right (her right as a consumer, that is) to buy the Plan B emergency contraceptive from a Walmart in January, has a blog, where she shares her version of the story. -Feministing tells us about Colorado&#8217;s &#8220;first piece of pro-choice legislation since 1999.&#8221; -Alas&#8217;s Ampersand calls attention to the Pope&#8217;s &#8220;non-negotiable&#8221; stance against the death penalty, which the media has ignored in the midst of the pope&#8217;s anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage statements. Guess death as an issue is just not in right now. -Ayecha is dismayed at an anonymous anti-girl-baby-naming comment left on a RenReb post, and recalls that there were days not too long ago, evening in Conservative Judaism, when women did not have the right to full participation in religious life. -Barefoot Jewess explains how teffilin were &#8220;thrust upon&#8221; her. -Canonist points to &#8220;an interesting juxtaposition&#8221; of bug-inspecting for kashrut and egalitarianism in Orthodox Judaism. -Iconia posts about a Jewess artist finding art in burnt pita toast. Personally, I prefer my art on seven-grain. -For interested parties in Chicago, Maya Escobar will be performing an &#8220;interactive piece&#8221; at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago&#8217;s Undergraduate Thesis Exhibition. -Chayyei Sarah links to her wedding-related articles in The NY Jewish Week. -Danya draws us to the Open Source Hagaddah and encourages us to design our own Passover seders. -Israelity reports that a psychic detective helped catch escaped Israeli serial rapist Benny Sela. What do you think about that? Wait, don&#8217;t tell us&#8230; -Jew School&#8217;s Mobius does his own mishegas round up. -Jewlicious dishes on Leonardo DiCaprio&#8217;s visit to the Western Wall. -JSpot offers some more insight into Rabbi Toba Spitzer, the new head of the Rabbinical Reconstructionist Federation. And you know what else? They love us, they really love us! -Orthomom gives a lawsuit update. -The Yada Blog ties up some loose ends re: hot Jewish entertainers. -Another new blog on the block, V&#8217;s blog. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] -Salty femme shares a butternut squash, leek and potato soup recipe; gives us a heads up about submissions for a new feminist magazine, Make/Shift; and discusses the recent JAP debacle over at Jew School. -Life in Israel does the biggest roundup we&#8217;ve ever seen. Yasher koach! -Tashina Byrd, who was outrageously denied her right (her right as a consumer, that is) to buy the Plan B emergency contraceptive from a Walmart in January, has a blog, where she shares her version of the story. -Feministing tells us about Colorado&#8217;s &#8220;first piece of pro-choice legislation since 1999.&#8221; -Alas&#8217;s Ampersand calls attention to the Pope&#8217;s &#8220;non-negotiable&#8221; stance against the death penalty, which the media has ignored in the midst of the pope&#8217;s anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage statements. Guess death as an issue is just not in right now. -Ayecha is dismayed at an anonymous anti-girl-baby-naming comment left on a RenReb post, and recalls that there were days not too long ago, evening in Conservative Judaism, when women did not have the right to full participation in religious life. -Barefoot Jewess explains how teffilin were &#8220;thrust upon&#8221; her. -Canonist points to &#8220;an interesting juxtaposition&#8221; of bug-inspecting for kashrut and egalitarianism in Orthodox Judaism. -Iconia posts about a Jewess artist finding art in burnt pita toast. Personally, I prefer my art on seven-grain. -For interested parties in Chicago, Maya Escobar will be performing an &#8220;interactive piece&#8221; at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago&#8217;s Undergraduate Thesis Exhibition. -Chayyei Sarah links to her wedding-related articles in The NY Jewish Week. -Danya draws us to the Open Source Hagaddah and encourages us to design our own Passover seders. -Israelity reports that a psychic detective helped catch escaped Israeli serial rapist Benny Sela. What do you think about that? Wait, don&#8217;t tell us&#8230; -Jew School&#8217;s Mobius does his own mishegas round up. -Jewlicious dishes on Leonardo DiCaprio&#8217;s visit to the Western Wall. -JSpot offers some more insight into Rabbi Toba Spitzer, the new head of the Rabbinical Reconstructionist Federation. And you know what else? They love us, they really love us! -Orthomom gives a lawsuit update. -The Yada Blog ties up some loose ends re: hot Jewish entertainers. -Another new blog on the block, V&#8217;s blog. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dianne</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-255968</link>
		<dc:creator>Dianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 15:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-255968</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;for the also pretty good reason that when thousands are dying from dysentery, there are focuses more urgent than three guys on death row.&lt;/i&gt;

Thousands--actually, millions-- of people in the third world (and first world and probably second world if anyone knows what the heck that is) are dying of HIV related diseases. But not only does the Church not consider focusing on prevention of HIV important, it actively tries to prevent HIV control through sex ed and condom distribution. Not to mention the thousands of women it dooms to death from unsafe abortions and childbirth by preventing access to safe abortions. Which is why I have a hard time taking the Pope's supposed dedication to life very seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>for the also pretty good reason that when thousands are dying from dysentery, there are focuses more urgent than three guys on death row.</i></p>
<p>Thousands&#8211;actually, millions&#8211; of people in the third world (and first world and probably second world if anyone knows what the heck that is) are dying of HIV related diseases. But not only does the Church not consider focusing on prevention of HIV important, it actively tries to prevent HIV control through sex ed and condom distribution. Not to mention the thousands of women it dooms to death from unsafe abortions and childbirth by preventing access to safe abortions. Which is why I have a hard time taking the Pope&#8217;s supposed dedication to life very seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: britgirlsf</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-255780</link>
		<dc:creator>britgirlsf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 05:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-255780</guid>
		<description>Dreama's on the right track. The MSM doesn't do complicates, generally, it does soundbites. Any issue that can't be reduced to easily regurgiated soundbites tends to be overlooked and covered weakly if at all, and the Catholic stance on "natural death" is complicated in the extreme. There's also the fact that abortion is more of a hot-button issue than the death penalty in the US. 
I hope Robert's right that Benedict actually does care about the death penalty, although honestly I'm hoping he keeps quiet about euthanasia. If he does start talking about that more openly then you'll see more detailed coverage in Europe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dreama&#8217;s on the right track. The MSM doesn&#8217;t do complicates, generally, it does soundbites. Any issue that can&#8217;t be reduced to easily regurgiated soundbites tends to be overlooked and covered weakly if at all, and the Catholic stance on &#8220;natural death&#8221; is complicated in the extreme. There&#8217;s also the fact that abortion is more of a hot-button issue than the death penalty in the US.<br />
I hope Robert&#8217;s right that Benedict actually does care about the death penalty, although honestly I&#8217;m hoping he keeps quiet about euthanasia. If he does start talking about that more openly then you&#8217;ll see more detailed coverage in Europe.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-255661</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 21:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-255661</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;So, Robert: Do you think we’ll see as much passion and activism from the Church authorities — including denying communion to politicians who disagree with the Church’s “not negotiable” position — against the death penalty as we will see against gay marriage, in the coming years?&lt;/i&gt;

To a degree, yes, if you look at the proper church authorities. You won't see a lot of death penalty agitation coming from Europe, for example, for the pretty good reason that they don't have it there anymore (mostly). You also won't see a lot of it in the developing world, for the also pretty good reason that when thousands are dying from dysentery, there are focuses more urgent than three guys on death row. Watch the American church, and you will see plenty of sustained activity on the topic.

That said, why should the level of agitation and effort be commensurate? The two questions (besides being somewhat unrelated topically) also have widely varying social impact. The death penalty, at bottom, is about a relative handful of people. Marriage affects nearly everyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>So, Robert: Do you think we’ll see as much passion and activism from the Church authorities — including denying communion to politicians who disagree with the Church’s “not negotiable” position — against the death penalty as we will see against gay marriage, in the coming years?</i></p>
<p>To a degree, yes, if you look at the proper church authorities. You won&#8217;t see a lot of death penalty agitation coming from Europe, for example, for the pretty good reason that they don&#8217;t have it there anymore (mostly). You also won&#8217;t see a lot of it in the developing world, for the also pretty good reason that when thousands are dying from dysentery, there are focuses more urgent than three guys on death row. Watch the American church, and you will see plenty of sustained activity on the topic.</p>
<p>That said, why should the level of agitation and effort be commensurate? The two questions (besides being somewhat unrelated topically) also have widely varying social impact. The death penalty, at bottom, is about a relative handful of people. Marriage affects nearly everyone.</p>
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		<title>By: Ampersand</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-255623</link>
		<dc:creator>Ampersand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 20:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-255623</guid>
		<description>"Eurochrist."

Hee hee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Eurochrist.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hee hee.</p>
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		<title>By: Ampersand</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-255621</link>
		<dc:creator>Ampersand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 20:50:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-255621</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Kidding aside, you’re also pretty off base in your working assumptions regarding the pontiff. Benedict has been a vigorous and staunch opponent of the death penalty and torture for many years, regularly opining and arguing against both.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, if that's the case, then good for Benedict! But I think that just goes to prove my first point (even as it disproves my second point): The press does a lousy job of reporting on cases in which the Pope disagrees with conservatives, even as it does a bang-up job of highlighting cases in which the Pope disagrees with liberals.

So, Robert: Do you think we'll see as much passion and activism from the Church authorities -- including denying communion to politicians who disagree with the Church's "not negotiable" position -- against the death penalty as we will see against gay marriage, in the coming years?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Kidding aside, you’re also pretty off base in your working assumptions regarding the pontiff. Benedict has been a vigorous and staunch opponent of the death penalty and torture for many years, regularly opining and arguing against both.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, if that&#8217;s the case, then good for Benedict! But I think that just goes to prove my first point (even as it disproves my second point): The press does a lousy job of reporting on cases in which the Pope disagrees with conservatives, even as it does a bang-up job of highlighting cases in which the Pope disagrees with liberals.</p>
<p>So, Robert: Do you think we&#8217;ll see as much passion and activism from the Church authorities &#8212; including denying communion to politicians who disagree with the Church&#8217;s &#8220;not negotiable&#8221; position &#8212; against the death penalty as we will see against gay marriage, in the coming years?</p>
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		<title>By: Dianne</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-255589</link>
		<dc:creator>Dianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 20:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-255589</guid>
		<description>I've got to ask about this "natural death" thing...If someone has "died"* of VTach or VFib and is successfully rescussitated, is it then ok to kill them because they've already experienced "natural death"?  Is CPR, ACLS, and so on immoral because it reverses natural death? What does the pope think that natural death means anyway?

*That is, had their heart stop pumping, their breathing stop, and their brain function stop. All of which is sometimes reversible with the right equipment, but none of which is ever reversed naturally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve got to ask about this &#8220;natural death&#8221; thing&#8230;If someone has &#8220;died&#8221;* of VTach or VFib and is successfully rescussitated, is it then ok to kill them because they&#8217;ve already experienced &#8220;natural death&#8221;?  Is CPR, ACLS, and so on immoral because it reverses natural death? What does the pope think that natural death means anyway?</p>
<p>*That is, had their heart stop pumping, their breathing stop, and their brain function stop. All of which is sometimes reversible with the right equipment, but none of which is ever reversed naturally.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-255583</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 19:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-255583</guid>
		<description>Actually, I suspect that Dreama's point, that requiring support for natural death is a non-issue in the press because it is too complicated, both pro-conservative (anti-euthanasia) and anti-conservative (anti-death penalty) is the reason it didn't get much coverage. If the Pope had specifically mentioned the death penalty or torture as things that Catholics must oppose, that would make the news, but natural death is too obscure and politically contradictory a term to make an easy news scroll 1 liner out of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I suspect that Dreama&#8217;s point, that requiring support for natural death is a non-issue in the press because it is too complicated, both pro-conservative (anti-euthanasia) and anti-conservative (anti-death penalty) is the reason it didn&#8217;t get much coverage. If the Pope had specifically mentioned the death penalty or torture as things that Catholics must oppose, that would make the news, but natural death is too obscure and politically contradictory a term to make an easy news scroll 1 liner out of.</p>
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		<title>By: Dreama</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-255544</link>
		<dc:creator>Dreama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 17:28:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-255544</guid>
		<description>The "natural end" of life statement isn't simply related to the Church's opinion on the death penalty, it is a reaffirmation of the Church's position on euthanasia, a political hot button issue as well.  And this is an area where your theorem -- which I'd generally agree with -- doesn't fully hold, because the "conservative" position on euthanasia is split.  The more libertarian conservatives are much more accepting of euthanasia on the "it's a private matter and suffering should not be legally required" angle while the more right wing "all life is sacred regardless" types are in line with the Church.

That said, I'm not sure why this is getting so much play in the press at all.  There was nothing new in this proclamation, if anything the Church is becoming more stalwart in its long-held positions and that's exactly what was expected with the election of Pope Benedict.  There's no surprise here and unless  you're a Catholic, really, no news.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;natural end&#8221; of life statement isn&#8217;t simply related to the Church&#8217;s opinion on the death penalty, it is a reaffirmation of the Church&#8217;s position on euthanasia, a political hot button issue as well.  And this is an area where your theorem &#8212; which I&#8217;d generally agree with &#8212; doesn&#8217;t fully hold, because the &#8220;conservative&#8221; position on euthanasia is split.  The more libertarian conservatives are much more accepting of euthanasia on the &#8220;it&#8217;s a private matter and suffering should not be legally required&#8221; angle while the more right wing &#8220;all life is sacred regardless&#8221; types are in line with the Church.</p>
<p>That said, I&#8217;m not sure why this is getting so much play in the press at all.  There was nothing new in this proclamation, if anything the Church is becoming more stalwart in its long-held positions and that&#8217;s exactly what was expected with the election of Pope Benedict.  There&#8217;s no surprise here and unless  you&#8217;re a Catholic, really, no news.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-255542</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 17:18:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-255542</guid>
		<description>Kidding aside, you're also pretty off base in your working assumptions regarding the pontiff. Benedict has been a vigorous and staunch opponent of the death penalty and torture for many years, regularly opining and arguing against both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kidding aside, you&#8217;re also pretty off base in your working assumptions regarding the pontiff. Benedict has been a vigorous and staunch opponent of the death penalty and torture for many years, regularly opining and arguing against both.</p>
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		<title>By: Myca</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-255538</link>
		<dc:creator>Myca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 17:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-255538</guid>
		<description>It's actually the miracle of the Eurochrist that transsubstantiates espresso and biscotti into the blood and body of Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s actually the miracle of the Eurochrist that transsubstantiates espresso and biscotti into the blood and body of Christ.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-255516</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-255516</guid>
		<description>The "Eurochrist"? What's that, Jesus with slicked-back hair, fashionable slacks, riding a Vespa and saying "ciao, baby"?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;Eurochrist&#8221;? What&#8217;s that, Jesus with slicked-back hair, fashionable slacks, riding a Vespa and saying &#8220;ciao, baby&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: IST Control Center</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-268221</link>
		<dc:creator>IST Control Center</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/03/13/pope-calls-opposition-to-death-penalty-not-negotiable-media-misses-it/#comment-268221</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;      Problems Leaving Comments     - Mar 13, 2007    - Ampersand      Pope Calls Opposition To Death Penalty “Not Negotiable”; Media Misses It     - Mar 13, 2007    - Ampersand      Limited Contact     - Mar 13, 2007    - Maia      A Better World     - Mar 12, 2007    - bean      Across Town     - Mar 12, 2007    - Maia    &lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%-->      Problems Leaving Comments     - Mar 13, 2007    - Ampersand      Pope Calls Opposition To Death Penalty “Not Negotiable”; Media Misses It     - Mar 13, 2007    - Ampersand      Limited Contact     - Mar 13, 2007    - Maia      A Better World     - Mar 12, 2007    - bean      Across Town     - Mar 12, 2007    - Maia    <!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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