And those of them on the winning sides (on the level of battles or entire wars) have usually ended up committing unbelievable atrocities on the losing sides.

I hate to break it to you guys, but war isn’t like you see in the movies. There’s absolutely nothing glorious, noble, self-sacrificing or good in it.

This is exactly why it’s important to have a high quality, professional military.

It’s ridiculous to assign noble motives to soldiers as a whole, because most of them throughout history have been barely more than children–or even sometimes actual children–who really weren’t capable of fully understanding what they were being sent out to do. And those of them on the winning sides (on the level of battles or entire wars) have usually ended up committing unbelievable atrocities on the losing sides.

I hate to break it to you guys, but war isn’t like you see in the movies. There’s absolutely nothing glorious, noble, self-sacrificing or good in it.

crys-t she also said that people who died from disease should be honored in the same way.

but i don’t really want to argue against honoring women who died in childbirth. I was just trying to answer the question.

That the sentiments expressed, while often individually fulsome, are not collectively as great as that offered to soldiers, is probably explained by the fact that most of us lived with or near our mothers throughout childhood, and hear fairly regularly from our mothers about their sacrifices and sufferings. This tends to cut down on the felt emotional need to say “thanks”.

If everyone had a soldier following them around and saying “you know, you wouldn’t have the freedom to do that if not for my constant sacrifice”, we’d probably still be thankful to soldiers, but not as enthusiastically thankful in a collective way as we are now. People who talk about their own sacrifices tend to burn off a little gratitude, even when they’re absolutely correct and they are being incredibly sacrificial, like mothers.

1. Defending the freedom of non-Americans;
2. Infringing on the freedom of non-Americans;
3. Infringing on the freedom of Americans.

Evidently most people think not, which is the real problem.

crys t Writes:

April 25th, 2007 at 4:56 am
I think the people who are mentioning Mothers’ Day are missing the point that it is for ALL mothers, while Maia was specifically singling out those mothers who have died in childbirth.

Good point. I think the difference would hing upon whether you think a soldier is making a sacrafice for their country and whether that sacrifice is valuable.

I’m going to go with yes. The fate of people who’ve lost wars in the past is too grim not to.

Most these guys were either tricked into joining the war with dreams of travelling to exotic places, or filled with propoganda based fear about our country being taken over by monsters or coercively conscripted away to suffer or die.

The fact is these soldier weren’t too bright and were conned by the government. The day should be one to remember how much harm adoration and obedience to the state can do. But instead it is used to reinforce the importance of being obedient to the state.

The whole day is a sad one for me, for completely different reasons than it is to the braiwashed masses. It is sad for me that so many were sent off for slaughter and almost no lessons were learned. Hence, history may be repeated.

All this makes me crazy because I’m much more apt to identify with civilians. Why not have a tomb of the unknown civilian? Or the unknown refugee? I feel as though the military is a weird death cult which I’m supposed to respect more it kills people.

Still, honoring the dead soldiers may well be functional, and not just for getting the next generation to sign up.

No arguments. But a soldier, even a draftee, makes a choice. He or she decides to allow the politicians to use him or her as a weapon. Often in the absence of an obvious external threat. That doesn’t strike me as a particularly honorable thing to do. I’d like to see a day set aside to honor those who made sacrifices to avoid being used as a weapon in an aggressive war. I sing of Olaf, big and glad…

Regardless of the politics that effect soldiers’ lives and deaths, they do commit to a principle that might cost them their lives, which cannot be said of those who died of influenza or car crashes or most other stuff. We honor cops and firefighters who die on the job too. It’s because they took the job that risked their lives, and their commitment is considered a public good.

The freedom to be such vindictive winners that WWII was almost guaranteed to happen, perhaps?

That was a failure of the politicians, not the soliders.

I have a question about ANZAC day. Does it honor all servicemen and servicewomen, or only those who have died in wartime service?

In the United States we have two different holidays that honor servicemen and servicewomen. Veteran’s Day honors all of them, living and dead; it’s November 11th, specifically to relate to the end of World War I (it was instituted soon after the end of that war by Presidential proclamation). Government offices are closed, but private businesses and schools stay open. Memorial Day honors specifically those who died in wartime service, and began after the American Civil War. It’s used to be May 30th but is now timed as the last Monday in May. Everyone gets the day off, unless they are working in retail businesses, as it’s a very busy day for them. While the day has become highly commercialized, the significance has not been lost; there are parades and commemorations of the sacrifice that these men and women have made to establish and preserve freedom.

The holiday commercialized within a few years, and remains so today. I’d guess that not one in 100 people know about why the holiday first became proclaimed; it’s now generally a day to honor mothers and motherhood. It’s the second Sunday in May. It is generally celebrated by buying the living mothers in one’s family (including your wife if she has had children) flowers and greeting cards (and possibly more substantial gifts) and taking them out for brunch. People often visit and put flowers at the graves of their mothers if they have passed away. In fact, I haven’t made a reservation for brunch for Mothers’ Day and it may well be too late to do so. There is absolutely no way to escape hearing about the holiday in all American media. Any public event going on that day recognizes it.

Most ordinary people feel an emotional and mental connection to the nation. The soldiers are seen as an integral, indeed foundational, component of the nation. The people thus love and honor them, for making their more or less secure existence possible.

World War 1 didn’t get anyone anything. The sacrifice those soldiers made was a complete waste of life, because of a lie (several lies). Turkey wasn’t an external threat to NZ - NZ invaded Turkey.

I think what happened to those soldiers was awful, but I’d never attend a ceremony that was organised by the people who did it to the soldiers (the government, and generals). I also don’t understand why they’re singles out.

Joe is mothers day a public holiday in America?

Similarly, Napoleon reveled in the insight that people will die for ribbons.

In short, honor is a kind of compensation. We give it to motivate current troops, and to encourage future troops to sign up. Honor is a currency that continues to hold some attractive force even in the face of withering fire when money can seem less motivating.

Plus, as Napoleon noted, honor is cheap. Don’t feel like honoring soldiers above other social groups? Then realize that we’ll have to find some other way to pay them. Considering the cost of ribbons and badges and parades and statues, I suspect honor is a bargain.