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	<title>Comments on: But if anyone is going to be shot at&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/</link>
	<description>Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-293206</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2007 16:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The news stories out now are that it's been decided that Harry will be a terrorist magnet that would put his unit into highly disproportionate risk, so he's not going.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The news stories out now are that it&#8217;s been decided that Harry will be a terrorist magnet that would put his unit into highly disproportionate risk, so he&#8217;s not going.</p>
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		<title>By: the amazing kim</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-292040</link>
		<dc:creator>the amazing kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 12:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;If he survives, he should come out of it a better person.&lt;/i&gt;

Or at least with post-traumatic stress disorder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If he survives, he should come out of it a better person.</i></p>
<p>Or at least with post-traumatic stress disorder.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291930</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 17:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ron, the monarch lost the power to dissolve parliament fairly early on, in the late 17th century, along with most of the other powers. The Queen can, theoretically, stop any LAW that Parliament passes by refusing her assent, but this has not happened since 1707. If she were to try it today, the specific law probably would indeed be junked,but it would add enormously to the pressure to just boot the Windsors to the curb.

On the other hand, if the monarch were to come out and publicly say "this Parliament is a disgrace, this government is a shambles, etc" it would certainly have a powerful political effect (but again would probably also destabilize the situation).

The Queen has lots of power, as long as she never uses it. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron, the monarch lost the power to dissolve parliament fairly early on, in the late 17th century, along with most of the other powers. The Queen can, theoretically, stop any LAW that Parliament passes by refusing her assent, but this has not happened since 1707. If she were to try it today, the specific law probably would indeed be junked,but it would add enormously to the pressure to just boot the Windsors to the curb.</p>
<p>On the other hand, if the monarch were to come out and publicly say &#8220;this Parliament is a disgrace, this government is a shambles, etc&#8221; it would certainly have a powerful political effect (but again would probably also destabilize the situation).</p>
<p>The Queen has lots of power, as long as she never uses it. ;)</p>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291927</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 17:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Can the English Sovereign still dissolve Parliament and force new elections without the permission of the Prime Minister?  Or is this one of those "Yes, technically she can but it hasn't happened in 300 years and people would go nuts if she did" kind of things?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can the English Sovereign still dissolve Parliament and force new elections without the permission of the Prime Minister?  Or is this one of those &#8220;Yes, technically she can but it hasn&#8217;t happened in 300 years and people would go nuts if she did&#8221; kind of things?</p>
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		<title>By: crys t</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291902</link>
		<dc:creator>crys t</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 11:40:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Curiousgyrl is right.  In fact, in all the European states with monarchies, are there any where the sovereign actually holds any real power?  I don't know of any, but then again, royals are pretty low on my list of interests (even though I am in theory the "subject" of one), so you'll find few people who actually know less about them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curiousgyrl is right.  In fact, in all the European states with monarchies, are there any where the sovereign actually holds any real power?  I don&#8217;t know of any, but then again, royals are pretty low on my list of interests (even though I am in theory the &#8220;subject&#8221; of one), so you&#8217;ll find few people who actually know less about them.</p>
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		<title>By: curiousgyrl</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291875</link>
		<dc:creator>curiousgyrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 02:07:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>ivy--the royals dont actually rule the government though. They have nothing to do wiht it but look shiny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ivy&#8211;the royals dont actually rule the government though. They have nothing to do wiht it but look shiny.</p>
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		<title>By: Ivyfree</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291831</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivyfree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2007 16:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Just wanted to say that the last six years have more or less convinced me that there's a lot to be said for a government with someone who has enormous prestige and influence and doesn't have to worry about being elected.  Yeah, they went to war with us.  A lot fewer troops, and they're getting out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wanted to say that the last six years have more or less convinced me that there&#8217;s a lot to be said for a government with someone who has enormous prestige and influence and doesn&#8217;t have to worry about being elected.  Yeah, they went to war with us.  A lot fewer troops, and they&#8217;re getting out.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul1552</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291772</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul1552</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 22:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Aside from converting to Catholicism or marrying a Catholic, I'm not sure whether there's anything Harry can do in advance to renounce his place in the order of succession.  He may not be able to abdicate or otherwise renounce his rights to the throne unless and until he actually succeeded to it. It's really an academic question since he hasn't shown any intention of refusing to serve in Iraq if his unit is sent there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aside from converting to Catholicism or marrying a Catholic, I&#8217;m not sure whether there&#8217;s anything Harry can do in advance to renounce his place in the order of succession.  He may not be able to abdicate or otherwise renounce his rights to the throne unless and until he actually succeeded to it. It&#8217;s really an academic question since he hasn&#8217;t shown any intention of refusing to serve in Iraq if his unit is sent there.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291716</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 07:37:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;Me too. What’s the world coming to?&lt;/i&gt;

Why, the ultimate convergence of science, technology, human knowledge, and spiritual power into one omnicognizant point, known as the Bobularity, of course. Get your tickets now.

Yes, Harry can walk away any time he wants to. He can renounce his claim to the throne, pursue an independent life, and otherwise become a private citizen. (Not that he would be anonymous, of course, it would surely make him far more well-known than he already is.) 

That's what he can do. What it's actually called if he does it is a matter of some question. When Edward abdicated to marry an American woman, it required an Act of Parliament to formalize the abdication. So perhaps, technically, it wouldn't be an abdication on Harry's part if the Parliament never chose to ratify his choice. They couldn't stop him, of course (how do you make someone be King?) but the legalisms might be murkier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Me too. What’s the world coming to?</i></p>
<p>Why, the ultimate convergence of science, technology, human knowledge, and spiritual power into one omnicognizant point, known as the Bobularity, of course. Get your tickets now.</p>
<p>Yes, Harry can walk away any time he wants to. He can renounce his claim to the throne, pursue an independent life, and otherwise become a private citizen. (Not that he would be anonymous, of course, it would surely make him far more well-known than he already is.) </p>
<p>That&#8217;s what he can do. What it&#8217;s actually called if he does it is a matter of some question. When Edward abdicated to marry an American woman, it required an Act of Parliament to formalize the abdication. So perhaps, technically, it wouldn&#8217;t be an abdication on Harry&#8217;s part if the Parliament never chose to ratify his choice. They couldn&#8217;t stop him, of course (how do you make someone be King?) but the legalisms might be murkier.</p>
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		<title>By: Dianne</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291714</link>
		<dc:creator>Dianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 07:18:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;Good Grief, I agree with Robert. &lt;/i&gt;

Me too. What's the world coming to?

As far as Harry's being given no choice about being royalty, maybe one of the commonwealth types could correct me if I'm wrong, but it was my understanding that if he wanted a different life he could simply renounce his claim to the succession (is it called "abdicating" if he's only giving up the possibility of being king some day?) and go off and become whatever he wanted to. So the fact that he doesn't do that means that he needs to fulfill all aspects of the job: if he wants the fame, wealth, and power (even if it is unofficial, he has more power than the average Brit), he needs to deal with the dangers and inconveniences as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Good Grief, I agree with Robert. </i></p>
<p>Me too. What&#8217;s the world coming to?</p>
<p>As far as Harry&#8217;s being given no choice about being royalty, maybe one of the commonwealth types could correct me if I&#8217;m wrong, but it was my understanding that if he wanted a different life he could simply renounce his claim to the succession (is it called &#8220;abdicating&#8221; if he&#8217;s only giving up the possibility of being king some day?) and go off and become whatever he wanted to. So the fact that he doesn&#8217;t do that means that he needs to fulfill all aspects of the job: if he wants the fame, wealth, and power (even if it is unofficial, he has more power than the average Brit), he needs to deal with the dangers and inconveniences as well.</p>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291706</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 04:18:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It would be interesting to know just how many politicians have children that are of an age to join the military.  Also, for all you know many of them have encouraged their kids to join but the kids have rejected the advice.

Speaking of politican's kids in the military, there's an interesting story out of Chicago.  Mayor Daley's eldest son went to West Point out of high school.  After a year or two (I don't remember the exact period), he left West Point, just before the point at which he would have had to commit to active service as an officer.  He continued his college career elsewhere, and ended up getting an MBA at the University of Chicago.

For those of you not familiar with the U. of C., it's a very prestigious and academically demanding school.  You've got to be pretty smart and a hard worker to get an MBA there.  At this point, he was pretty well set.  He had a very good education from a very good school, and given his name there's no way he could fail to land a very high-paying job anywhere in Chicago.  Which he did.

And then, a few months after finishing his MBA, he quit.  And enlisted in the Army.  He's currently with the 82nd Airborne, and could easily go to Iraq.  He was quoted as saying that he had come to realize what "Duty, Honor, Country" really meant, and decided that he needed to serve his country.  His mother is reputed upset that he has decided to join the military, but his father said he did not try to talk him out of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be interesting to know just how many politicians have children that are of an age to join the military.  Also, for all you know many of them have encouraged their kids to join but the kids have rejected the advice.</p>
<p>Speaking of politican&#8217;s kids in the military, there&#8217;s an interesting story out of Chicago.  Mayor Daley&#8217;s eldest son went to West Point out of high school.  After a year or two (I don&#8217;t remember the exact period), he left West Point, just before the point at which he would have had to commit to active service as an officer.  He continued his college career elsewhere, and ended up getting an MBA at the University of Chicago.</p>
<p>For those of you not familiar with the U. of C., it&#8217;s a very prestigious and academically demanding school.  You&#8217;ve got to be pretty smart and a hard worker to get an MBA there.  At this point, he was pretty well set.  He had a very good education from a very good school, and given his name there&#8217;s no way he could fail to land a very high-paying job anywhere in Chicago.  Which he did.</p>
<p>And then, a few months after finishing his MBA, he quit.  And enlisted in the Army.  He&#8217;s currently with the 82nd Airborne, and could easily go to Iraq.  He was quoted as saying that he had come to realize what &#8220;Duty, Honor, Country&#8221; really meant, and decided that he needed to serve his country.  His mother is reputed upset that he has decided to join the military, but his father said he did not try to talk him out of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Nora</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291698</link>
		<dc:creator>Nora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 02:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I'd like to see him go.  If anything can mature someone as insensitive and ignorant as the callow youth who wore that swastika, it's being thrown into a hypocritical and nonsensical war.  If he survives, he should come out of it a better person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to see him go.  If anything can mature someone as insensitive and ignorant as the callow youth who wore that swastika, it&#8217;s being thrown into a hypocritical and nonsensical war.  If he survives, he should come out of it a better person.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul1552</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291677</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul1552</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 21:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Actually, Prince Harry himself has indicated that he wants to go to Iraq instead of staying at home "sitting on his arse" while his comrades are putting themselves in danger.  I think Sarah is right: the reluctance to send him is due mainly to concern about whether doing so will put others in his unit in greater danger and about the political and diplomatic mess if he is taken hostage.

There seems to be a pretty strong tradition of younger sons in that family serving in wartime. His Uncle Andrew served during the Falklands conflict, and his grandfather, who later became George VI (and was also a younger brother) saw action during the Battle of Jutland in WW I.  I suppose the "spare" is more expendable than is the "heir."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Prince Harry himself has indicated that he wants to go to Iraq instead of staying at home &#8220;sitting on his arse&#8221; while his comrades are putting themselves in danger.  I think Sarah is right: the reluctance to send him is due mainly to concern about whether doing so will put others in his unit in greater danger and about the political and diplomatic mess if he is taken hostage.</p>
<p>There seems to be a pretty strong tradition of younger sons in that family serving in wartime. His Uncle Andrew served during the Falklands conflict, and his grandfather, who later became George VI (and was also a younger brother) saw action during the Battle of Jutland in WW I.  I suppose the &#8220;spare&#8221; is more expendable than is the &#8220;heir.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291669</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 20:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291669</guid>
		<description>curiousgyrl is 100% right in her comment about a vote for war.  A commitment to sacrifice other peoples' children while protecting your own is despicable.  

It is true enough that Prince Harry did not vote for war, nor did his Mom, who has nothing to say about all this.  That said, IF that family would like the monarchy to continue, their children have to go to war.  Part of the deal.  Hard deal and all that.  Prince Harry could abdicate and become the Lord of Whatever and get out of the loop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>curiousgyrl is 100% right in her comment about a vote for war.  A commitment to sacrifice other peoples&#8217; children while protecting your own is despicable.  </p>
<p>It is true enough that Prince Harry did not vote for war, nor did his Mom, who has nothing to say about all this.  That said, IF that family would like the monarchy to continue, their children have to go to war.  Part of the deal.  Hard deal and all that.  Prince Harry could abdicate and become the Lord of Whatever and get out of the loop.</p>
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		<title>By: curiousgyrl</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291665</link>
		<dc:creator>curiousgyrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 19:28:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Um *blink* what RonF said in his first comment.  That said, I think its really embarassing that so few of the US politicians who got us into this seem to feel at all compelled to encourage thier sons and daughters to sign up, if actual rates of signing up are any measure. That would be my own standard for a vote for war.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um *blink* what RonF said in his first comment.  That said, I think its really embarassing that so few of the US politicians who got us into this seem to feel at all compelled to encourage thier sons and daughters to sign up, if actual rates of signing up are any measure. That would be my own standard for a vote for war.</p>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291661</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 18:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What I have been trying to figure out since the news first came out is why the fact that he was going to Iraq was publicized by the British Government in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I have been trying to figure out since the news first came out is why the fact that he was going to Iraq was publicized by the British Government in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291654</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 18:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291654</guid>
		<description>The debate over whether he should go is nothing to do with his value as a person, or the value of his life.  It's about a fear that the rest of his regiment might be put in more danger than they would have been otherwise, because he might be considered more of a target than any other individual.  Also that if he was taken hostage it would create a diplomatically awkward situation to say the least.   It might cause more trouble than it's worth to the other people involved.

However it now looks as though he will be going, and apparently he wants to go, for better or worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The debate over whether he should go is nothing to do with his value as a person, or the value of his life.  It&#8217;s about a fear that the rest of his regiment might be put in more danger than they would have been otherwise, because he might be considered more of a target than any other individual.  Also that if he was taken hostage it would create a diplomatically awkward situation to say the least.   It might cause more trouble than it&#8217;s worth to the other people involved.</p>
<p>However it now looks as though he will be going, and apparently he wants to go, for better or worse.</p>
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		<title>By: anna</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291643</link>
		<dc:creator>anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 16:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291643</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;But I would be hard pressed to think of anyone more useless. Unlike his older brother, he won’t even get to wait, to wait, to become a figurehead.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

He's more useless than his brother because he's third in line instead of second? his life is worthless because of an accident of birth? wtf?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But I would be hard pressed to think of anyone more useless. Unlike his older brother, he won’t even get to wait, to wait, to become a figurehead.</p></blockquote>
<p>He&#8217;s more useless than his brother because he&#8217;s third in line instead of second? his life is worthless because of an accident of birth? wtf?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike3550</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291565</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike3550</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 21:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291565</guid>
		<description>I firmly believe that all leaders should have to face the consequences and imagine their own children being sacrificed to war.  From day one, Jenna and Barbara should have been the first ones to have volunteered to continue the war that their grandfather started and their father wanted to "finish"  (and, don't forget, the Mission was Accomplished...he told me so!).

Instead, others sons and daughters, like Senator George Webb's son, go off to fight the war and the President doesn't want to hear about that sacrifice (if you missed that scene in Washington, read &lt;a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2006/12/05/bush-webb-son/" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;).  For a man who got a cushy job that he (a) &lt;b&gt;didn't deserve&lt;/b&gt; and (b) couldn't even finish and a vice president who managed to get five deferments from going to war - maybe we should sign Mary up as well!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I firmly believe that all leaders should have to face the consequences and imagine their own children being sacrificed to war.  From day one, Jenna and Barbara should have been the first ones to have volunteered to continue the war that their grandfather started and their father wanted to &#8220;finish&#8221;  (and, don&#8217;t forget, the Mission was Accomplished&#8230;he told me so!).</p>
<p>Instead, others sons and daughters, like Senator George Webb&#8217;s son, go off to fight the war and the President doesn&#8217;t want to hear about that sacrifice (if you missed that scene in Washington, read <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2006/12/05/bush-webb-son/" rel="nofollow">here</a>).  For a man who got a cushy job that he (a) <b>didn&#8217;t deserve</b> and (b) couldn&#8217;t even finish and a vice president who managed to get five deferments from going to war - maybe we should sign Mary up as well!</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291550</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/04/30/but-if-anyone-is-going-to-be-shot-at/#comment-291550</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;they have a strong symbolic value.&lt;/i&gt;

Exactly. The symbolism of (a) the coddled prince putting down the Jetski and picking up his rifle and getting on the APC with the other grunts vs. (b) the coddled prince watching the war on the big-screen at the bar in Montenegro is powerful. The first is a social order that many people can support. The second sickens everyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>they have a strong symbolic value.</i></p>
<p>Exactly. The symbolism of (a) the coddled prince putting down the Jetski and picking up his rifle and getting on the APC with the other grunts vs. (b) the coddled prince watching the war on the big-screen at the bar in Montenegro is powerful. The first is a social order that many people can support. The second sickens everyone.</p>
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