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	<title>Comments on: And we all need to lose 30 kg</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/</link>
	<description>Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jay Buster</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-295611</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Buster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 13:01:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-295611</guid>
		<description>Hello from atop my Treadmill,

I have a blog devoted entirely to the “Treadmill Desk”.  It’s designed to guide users in the design, construction and operation of their Treadmill Desks. 

I don’t sit at my “normal” desk anymore unless I have to, like when I’m doing my tax return and there’s lots of papers.

Here's the URL: http://www.Treadmill-Desk.com/

Don’t miss the movies and slide shows!

Thanks,
Jay Buster
&lt;a href="http://www.Treadmill-Desk.com/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Treadmill Desk&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello from atop my Treadmill,</p>
<p>I have a blog devoted entirely to the “Treadmill Desk”.  It’s designed to guide users in the design, construction and operation of their Treadmill Desks. </p>
<p>I don’t sit at my “normal” desk anymore unless I have to, like when I’m doing my tax return and there’s lots of papers.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the URL: <a href="http://www.Treadmill-Desk.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.Treadmill-Desk.com/</a></p>
<p>Don’t miss the movies and slide shows!</p>
<p>Thanks,<br />
Jay Buster<br />
<a href="http://www.Treadmill-Desk.com/" rel="nofollow">Treadmill Desk</a></p>
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		<title>By: B.Adu</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-294749</link>
		<dc:creator>B.Adu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 01:52:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-294749</guid>
		<description>The cult like attitudes have not escaped me either, they project their own perceived or actual 'sins' of overconsumption - not just in the case of food- onto fat people, then punish fatties to presumably keep themselves 'in check', in some way.

It is being roped in- by default-  to their mindset that I can't stand. If they would just do their running about or whatever and be courteous to fatties, everyone would be happy.
I am also glad that you indicate that making 'exercise' an issue of moral superiority puts many like yourself and moi, off.

I respect your stand against the baggage put on this treadmill idea, but I don't think you should take any more notice of their opinions, as they would probably take of yours, your running on a treadmill for your own reasons, will make little if any difference to what they say/think about fat people, it is not about what we actually do or don't do, it's about what they project onto us.

Seems I should, belatedly, take a look at the BM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The cult like attitudes have not escaped me either, they project their own perceived or actual &#8217;sins&#8217; of overconsumption - not just in the case of food- onto fat people, then punish fatties to presumably keep themselves &#8216;in check&#8217;, in some way.</p>
<p>It is being roped in- by default-  to their mindset that I can&#8217;t stand. If they would just do their running about or whatever and be courteous to fatties, everyone would be happy.<br />
I am also glad that you indicate that making &#8216;exercise&#8217; an issue of moral superiority puts many like yourself and moi, off.</p>
<p>I respect your stand against the baggage put on this treadmill idea, but I don&#8217;t think you should take any more notice of their opinions, as they would probably take of yours, your running on a treadmill for your own reasons, will make little if any difference to what they say/think about fat people, it is not about what we actually do or don&#8217;t do, it&#8217;s about what they project onto us.</p>
<p>Seems I should, belatedly, take a look at the BM.</p>
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		<title>By: Kell</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-294687</link>
		<dc:creator>Kell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 17:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-294687</guid>
		<description>Personally, I agree with Naomi Wolf (in The Beauty Myth), i.e. that the whole process parallels religious rituals. Using a treadmill desk (which I would personally love to have access to, if there weren't fat bashing mythologies attached) is a way of begging for forgiveness for sins, i.e. eating a normal lunch. Kind of like saying Hail Marys...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I agree with Naomi Wolf (in The Beauty Myth), i.e. that the whole process parallels religious rituals. Using a treadmill desk (which I would personally love to have access to, if there weren&#8217;t fat bashing mythologies attached) is a way of begging for forgiveness for sins, i.e. eating a normal lunch. Kind of like saying Hail Marys&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: B.Adu</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-294569</link>
		<dc:creator>B.Adu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 May 2007 21:55:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-294569</guid>
		<description>OK Kell,
You've outed me. I was trying to fathom how the 'other half' relates their 'theories' to their actual reality, call me overpolite!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK Kell,<br />
You&#8217;ve outed me. I was trying to fathom how the &#8216;other half&#8217; relates their &#8216;theories&#8217; to their actual reality, call me overpolite!</p>
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		<title>By: Kell</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-294496</link>
		<dc:creator>Kell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 May 2007 01:08:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-294496</guid>
		<description>"B.Adu Writes: 

May 27th, 2007 at 7:30 am 
Weasel, I appreciate that you find this kind of desk useful, but I am intrigued by your rationale..."

What rationale? I think it's safe to assume anyone who thinks 1) exercise has any effect on body weight beyond about five pounds and 2) that still using the word "overweight" to describe fat people doen't make her look naive and ignorant is going to have all sorts of food obsessions that keep her from being able to eat in response to body cues. (Yes, I'm calling her "overdumb.")</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;B.Adu Writes: </p>
<p>May 27th, 2007 at 7:30 am<br />
Weasel, I appreciate that you find this kind of desk useful, but I am intrigued by your rationale&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>What rationale? I think it&#8217;s safe to assume anyone who thinks 1) exercise has any effect on body weight beyond about five pounds and 2) that still using the word &#8220;overweight&#8221; to describe fat people doen&#8217;t make her look naive and ignorant is going to have all sorts of food obsessions that keep her from being able to eat in response to body cues. (Yes, I&#8217;m calling her &#8220;overdumb.&#8221;)</p>
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		<title>By: B.Adu</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-294444</link>
		<dc:creator>B.Adu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 14:50:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-294444</guid>
		<description>Weasel, I appreciate that you find this kind of desk useful, but I am intrigued by your rationale.

You say that you are burning calories, but doesn't this encourage your body to keep up your calorie intake, after all you keep using them up all the time!
When you do less, don't you eat less automatically, and when you do more don't you simply eat more?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Weasel, I appreciate that you find this kind of desk useful, but I am intrigued by your rationale.</p>
<p>You say that you are burning calories, but doesn&#8217;t this encourage your body to keep up your calorie intake, after all you keep using them up all the time!<br />
When you do less, don&#8217;t you eat less automatically, and when you do more don&#8217;t you simply eat more?</p>
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		<title>By: Weasel</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-294401</link>
		<dc:creator>Weasel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 00:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-294401</guid>
		<description>I worked for a college for 11 years and even though they were concerned about health costs they would have never bought me this desk for simple $ reasons.  Now I telecommute for a different company and I set up my own treadmill desk to help fight a family predisposition to being overweight.  I actually have two desks, one that I walk at and one that I sit at for times when I need to rest, need more mouse control (such as editing a photo or illustration) or I'm just feeling lazy - ha.  I walk anywhere from 1-6 miles most days depending upon the type of work I'm doing and what other exercise I am getting that week with the kids.  I walk as little as 30 minutes a day and have walked 5 hours in a day as well.

Is the treadmill desk for everyone?  No - a few of the comments above make that clear.  Is it a dumb idea?  To a lot of people it certainly is.  Why do I use it?  Cause I need the extra calorie burn and I want to spend non-work time with my family or having fun - not stuck in a health club. 

BTW - even walking below 1 mph (which is pretty slow) gets you extra calories burned and most people won't break a sweat at that speed so you don't have to worry about "stinking up the meeting room".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I worked for a college for 11 years and even though they were concerned about health costs they would have never bought me this desk for simple $ reasons.  Now I telecommute for a different company and I set up my own treadmill desk to help fight a family predisposition to being overweight.  I actually have two desks, one that I walk at and one that I sit at for times when I need to rest, need more mouse control (such as editing a photo or illustration) or I&#8217;m just feeling lazy - ha.  I walk anywhere from 1-6 miles most days depending upon the type of work I&#8217;m doing and what other exercise I am getting that week with the kids.  I walk as little as 30 minutes a day and have walked 5 hours in a day as well.</p>
<p>Is the treadmill desk for everyone?  No - a few of the comments above make that clear.  Is it a dumb idea?  To a lot of people it certainly is.  Why do I use it?  Cause I need the extra calorie burn and I want to spend non-work time with my family or having fun - not stuck in a health club. </p>
<p>BTW - even walking below 1 mph (which is pretty slow) gets you extra calories burned and most people won&#8217;t break a sweat at that speed so you don&#8217;t have to worry about &#8220;stinking up the meeting room&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: scamps</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-294062</link>
		<dc:creator>scamps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 16:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-294062</guid>
		<description>If I ever worked at an office that implemented these, I would walk out immediately.

(But I would love one of these for home - lol)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I ever worked at an office that implemented these, I would walk out immediately.</p>
<p>(But I would love one of these for home - lol)</p>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-294058</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 16:30:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-294058</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I highly doubt that. A shorter worday would most likely just give people back a good chunk of their time, while keeping productivity equal. Or even increasing it. I always find I get a lot more done in a shorter workday.&lt;/i&gt;

I can see where taking breaks, etc., can refresh one's mind and spirit and keep productivity up.  But there's a quick limit to that; overall, you're not going to get as much done in a 30-hour week than you will in a 40-hour week.  If you work fewer hours, you're going to get less done.

Now, sitting at a desk for 8 or 9 hours a day is very definitely bad for you and unrelieved tedium will reduce productivity.  I find that getting down to the exercise center here at work really helps me out both healthwise and in getting work done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I highly doubt that. A shorter worday would most likely just give people back a good chunk of their time, while keeping productivity equal. Or even increasing it. I always find I get a lot more done in a shorter workday.</i></p>
<p>I can see where taking breaks, etc., can refresh one&#8217;s mind and spirit and keep productivity up.  But there&#8217;s a quick limit to that; overall, you&#8217;re not going to get as much done in a 30-hour week than you will in a 40-hour week.  If you work fewer hours, you&#8217;re going to get less done.</p>
<p>Now, sitting at a desk for 8 or 9 hours a day is very definitely bad for you and unrelieved tedium will reduce productivity.  I find that getting down to the exercise center here at work really helps me out both healthwise and in getting work done.</p>
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		<title>By: Reb</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-294054</link>
		<dc:creator>Reb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 15:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-294054</guid>
		<description>Speaking of which, I ran across this while at work: http://www.inc.com/news/articles/200705/obesity.html?partner=rss

The gist: despite a quote paying lipservice to the idea that you can't descriminate against fat people, employers should descriminate against fat people. They're bad for companies, you know...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of which, I ran across this while at work: <a href="http://www.inc.com/news/articles/200705/obesity.html?partner=rss" rel="nofollow">http://www.inc.com/news/articles/200705/obesity.html?partner=rss</a></p>
<p>The gist: despite a quote paying lipservice to the idea that you can&#8217;t descriminate against fat people, employers should descriminate against fat people. They&#8217;re bad for companies, you know&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: curiousgyrl</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-293963</link>
		<dc:creator>curiousgyrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 15:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-293963</guid>
		<description>I agree with Outlier. I dont think his point was that the treadmill isnt bad, its that enforced desk sitting--wage work in general--is already that bad, degrading, alientating etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Outlier. I dont think his point was that the treadmill isnt bad, its that enforced desk sitting&#8211;wage work in general&#8211;is already that bad, degrading, alientating etc.</p>
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		<title>By: B.Adu</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-293940</link>
		<dc:creator>B.Adu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 11:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-293940</guid>
		<description>Outlier, people are paying for the possibility or expectation that they will have pleasure, this is as far away from enforced running on a treadmill, as sexual harassment is from 'flirting'.  To do it for 'weight loss' can actually be degrading, yes degrading, so much so, that it can eventually put you off physical activity you used to enjoy, an overspill of the body resisting  attempts to 'starve' it by manipulating output. The unpleasantness can actually spread. It can alienate you from yourself, make you lose trust in yourself, 'why can't I do what is 'good' for me?'
 If you are not doing something 'cos you want to then it is skating the edge of consent, like a violation of oneself that you are colluding in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Outlier, people are paying for the possibility or expectation that they will have pleasure, this is as far away from enforced running on a treadmill, as sexual harassment is from &#8216;flirting&#8217;.  To do it for &#8216;weight loss&#8217; can actually be degrading, yes degrading, so much so, that it can eventually put you off physical activity you used to enjoy, an overspill of the body resisting  attempts to &#8217;starve&#8217; it by manipulating output. The unpleasantness can actually spread. It can alienate you from yourself, make you lose trust in yourself, &#8216;why can&#8217;t I do what is &#8216;good&#8217; for me?&#8217;<br />
 If you are not doing something &#8216;cos you want to then it is skating the edge of consent, like a violation of oneself that you are colluding in.</p>
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		<title>By: outlier</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-293894</link>
		<dc:creator>outlier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 00:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-293894</guid>
		<description>OK...I finally realized what bothered me about this post. It is that, while I agree with this

&lt;i&gt;Our bodies and our lives should belong to us, that’s the basic meaning of freedom.&lt;/i&gt;

I was already there before the treadmill/desk (which may be why it doesn't bother me all that much).

I mean, just sitting at a normal desk for a 9-hour day, with breaks for lunch, etc., is already a too-great imposition on my body and health. I need more sleep than the average person, but because I have to be at work at a certain time, I don't get it. This leads to me being more sick than I would be otherwise. The 9 hour day plus 2 hours of commuting leave me with little time to do anything else. And sitting at a desk in front of a computer for most of the day leads to a) wrist/neck/shoulder and other physical problems and b) a very sedentary lifestyle. I may not want either of these, but that's what comes with the job.

So the silly treadmill is (to me) hardly worth notice, because there are more impositions on people's physical beings than to prevent them from being fat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK&#8230;I finally realized what bothered me about this post. It is that, while I agree with this</p>
<p><i>Our bodies and our lives should belong to us, that’s the basic meaning of freedom.</i></p>
<p>I was already there before the treadmill/desk (which may be why it doesn&#8217;t bother me all that much).</p>
<p>I mean, just sitting at a normal desk for a 9-hour day, with breaks for lunch, etc., is already a too-great imposition on my body and health. I need more sleep than the average person, but because I have to be at work at a certain time, I don&#8217;t get it. This leads to me being more sick than I would be otherwise. The 9 hour day plus 2 hours of commuting leave me with little time to do anything else. And sitting at a desk in front of a computer for most of the day leads to a) wrist/neck/shoulder and other physical problems and b) a very sedentary lifestyle. I may not want either of these, but that&#8217;s what comes with the job.</p>
<p>So the silly treadmill is (to me) hardly worth notice, because there are more impositions on people&#8217;s physical beings than to prevent them from being fat.</p>
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		<title>By: outlier</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-293890</link>
		<dc:creator>outlier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 23:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-293890</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;pointless physical jerking around&lt;/i&gt;

This describes what many people pay good money to do in dimly lit places with a good DJ or live band.

&lt;i&gt;But the solution, as Deborah suggests, is more breaks and a shorter work day.

But then you’d have a drop in productivity, which would cost money.&lt;/i&gt;

I highly doubt that. A shorter worday would most likely just give people back a good chunk of their time, while keeping productivity equal. Or even increasing it. I always find I get a lot more done in a shorter workday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>pointless physical jerking around</i></p>
<p>This describes what many people pay good money to do in dimly lit places with a good DJ or live band.</p>
<p><i>But the solution, as Deborah suggests, is more breaks and a shorter work day.</p>
<p>But then you’d have a drop in productivity, which would cost money.</i></p>
<p>I highly doubt that. A shorter worday would most likely just give people back a good chunk of their time, while keeping productivity equal. Or even increasing it. I always find I get a lot more done in a shorter workday.</p>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-293884</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 21:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-293884</guid>
		<description>Our company has an in-house gym.  For $14/month I can go down there anytime from 0600 to 1800 and work out.  It is not unusual to see someone on a treadmill or an elliptical machine (the latter being my favorite) reading a book.  Sometimes it's recreational reading, sometimes its technical.

&lt;i&gt;It’s none of our employer’s business whether or not we lose 20 to 30 kg, or gain 20 or 30 kg.&lt;/i&gt;

I rather suspect that if an employer bought and set up a number of these machines, they might get some kind of discount from their health insurance provider.

&lt;i&gt;as a programmer, i wouldn’t touch that thing. it would be totally impossible for me to write any useful amount of useful code while doing anything but writing code; the concentration required for programming will not admit of distractions like walking in place all the time.&lt;/i&gt;

Yes, but you probably don't spend 8 hours a day writing code.  There's e-mail, scheduling meetings, etc., etc.  If you could set one of these up with a laptop, trust me; there'd be a line of people who wanted to use them, probably to run through their e-mail.  The concept of "my employer would be taking advantage of me" would be the last thing on their mind.

&lt;i&gt;What I find creepy about this is that there is a problem with people working extremely long hours and sitting down all day. But the solution, as Deborah suggests, is more breaks and a shorter work day.&lt;/i&gt;

But then you'd have a drop in productivity, which would cost money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our company has an in-house gym.  For $14/month I can go down there anytime from 0600 to 1800 and work out.  It is not unusual to see someone on a treadmill or an elliptical machine (the latter being my favorite) reading a book.  Sometimes it&#8217;s recreational reading, sometimes its technical.</p>
<p><i>It’s none of our employer’s business whether or not we lose 20 to 30 kg, or gain 20 or 30 kg.</i></p>
<p>I rather suspect that if an employer bought and set up a number of these machines, they might get some kind of discount from their health insurance provider.</p>
<p><i>as a programmer, i wouldn’t touch that thing. it would be totally impossible for me to write any useful amount of useful code while doing anything but writing code; the concentration required for programming will not admit of distractions like walking in place all the time.</i></p>
<p>Yes, but you probably don&#8217;t spend 8 hours a day writing code.  There&#8217;s e-mail, scheduling meetings, etc., etc.  If you could set one of these up with a laptop, trust me; there&#8217;d be a line of people who wanted to use them, probably to run through their e-mail.  The concept of &#8220;my employer would be taking advantage of me&#8221; would be the last thing on their mind.</p>
<p><i>What I find creepy about this is that there is a problem with people working extremely long hours and sitting down all day. But the solution, as Deborah suggests, is more breaks and a shorter work day.</i></p>
<p>But then you&#8217;d have a drop in productivity, which would cost money.</p>
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		<title>By: TheKiti</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-293877</link>
		<dc:creator>TheKiti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 19:56:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-293877</guid>
		<description>Once again, the concept of Health At Every Size is being completely trashed inthe implementation of these desks -- not the desks themselves, but the reasons for employers potentially wanting them.  

How do you think they'll evaluate the "success" of these desks?  By improved energy level? Treadmill stress tests?  Lab results?  No, they care about one thing and one thing only -- will it get everyone thin?

And of course, it won't.  Nobody can stay on a treadmill for eight hours straight, not even a world-class athlete, and even if you could the damage to your body, including your joints, would be incalculable.  At most, people might do 30 to 60 minutes on them daily.  An improvement over no exercise at all?  Certainly.  The magic bullet for slimness?  &lt;em&gt;Mais non.&lt;/em&gt;  With rare exceptions, the difference in what people weigh as a result of this will be negligible.

But &lt;em&gt;someone&lt;/em&gt; will be happy -- the manufacturer.  Ka-ching!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again, the concept of Health At Every Size is being completely trashed inthe implementation of these desks &#8212; not the desks themselves, but the reasons for employers potentially wanting them.  </p>
<p>How do you think they&#8217;ll evaluate the &#8220;success&#8221; of these desks?  By improved energy level? Treadmill stress tests?  Lab results?  No, they care about one thing and one thing only &#8212; will it get everyone thin?</p>
<p>And of course, it won&#8217;t.  Nobody can stay on a treadmill for eight hours straight, not even a world-class athlete, and even if you could the damage to your body, including your joints, would be incalculable.  At most, people might do 30 to 60 minutes on them daily.  An improvement over no exercise at all?  Certainly.  The magic bullet for slimness?  <em>Mais non.</em>  With rare exceptions, the difference in what people weigh as a result of this will be negligible.</p>
<p>But <em>someone</em> will be happy &#8212; the manufacturer.  Ka-ching!</p>
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		<title>By: Nomen Nescio</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-293857</link>
		<dc:creator>Nomen Nescio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 17:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-293857</guid>
		<description>as a programmer, i wouldn't touch that thing. it would be totally impossible for me to write any useful amount of useful code while doing anything &lt;i&gt;but&lt;/i&gt; writing code; the concentration required for programming will not admit of distractions like walking in place all the time.

sometimes, the concentration required for programming won't even allow for looking at a computer, and i have to stand up and walk around the office for a while. better yet, walk around the office &lt;i&gt;building&lt;/i&gt;, so i won't risk being interrupted by my coworkers.

also, second the need for desks to put papers on. and reference books. and cubicle walls to pin more papers onto. and maybe a whiteboard for doodling overviews on. and another computer monitor would be nice, for googling problems with...

(most programmers tend to have offices reminiscent of the prototypical scatterbrained mathemathics professor, i've found. the jobs are not too dissimilar, come to that.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as a programmer, i wouldn&#8217;t touch that thing. it would be totally impossible for me to write any useful amount of useful code while doing anything <i>but</i> writing code; the concentration required for programming will not admit of distractions like walking in place all the time.</p>
<p>sometimes, the concentration required for programming won&#8217;t even allow for looking at a computer, and i have to stand up and walk around the office for a while. better yet, walk around the office <i>building</i>, so i won&#8217;t risk being interrupted by my coworkers.</p>
<p>also, second the need for desks to put papers on. and reference books. and cubicle walls to pin more papers onto. and maybe a whiteboard for doodling overviews on. and another computer monitor would be nice, for googling problems with&#8230;</p>
<p>(most programmers tend to have offices reminiscent of the prototypical scatterbrained mathemathics professor, i&#8217;ve found. the jobs are not too dissimilar, come to that.)</p>
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		<title>By: acm</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-293821</link>
		<dc:creator>acm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 14:39:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-293821</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It’s none of our employer’s business whether or not we lose 20 to 30 kg, or gain 20 or 30 kg. Our bodies and our lives should belong to us, that’s the basic meaning of freedom.&lt;/i&gt;

two thoughts:

1) the idea that "all other factors" would remain equal is laughable.  probably people would eat a tiny bit more and stay the same weight.  (they might, however, feel totally better)

2) it's a bit difficult arguing that our bosses have no interest in our health (weight being a different matter), given that we force them to provide us health care/insurance.  another argument for separating the two and instituting universal health care in the US...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It’s none of our employer’s business whether or not we lose 20 to 30 kg, or gain 20 or 30 kg. Our bodies and our lives should belong to us, that’s the basic meaning of freedom.</i></p>
<p>two thoughts:</p>
<p>1) the idea that &#8220;all other factors&#8221; would remain equal is laughable.  probably people would eat a tiny bit more and stay the same weight.  (they might, however, feel totally better)</p>
<p>2) it&#8217;s a bit difficult arguing that our bosses have no interest in our health (weight being a different matter), given that we force them to provide us health care/insurance.  another argument for separating the two and instituting universal health care in the US&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: A.J. Luxton</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-293775</link>
		<dc:creator>A.J. Luxton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 03:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-293775</guid>
		<description>Hey, if anyone with a job thinks they're not walking enough, I have an offer to make -- they can give their car to me!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, if anyone with a job thinks they&#8217;re not walking enough, I have an offer to make &#8212; they can give their car to me!</p>
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		<title>By: fatfu</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-293747</link>
		<dc:creator>fatfu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 00:32:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/05/19/and-we-all-need-to-lose-30-kg/#comment-293747</guid>
		<description>Except they weren't seriously scientific in their research. That 20 kg promised loss is back of the envelope hypothetical and completely unsupported by any data or testing. Anybody hawking a fad weight loss program will make up the same  numbers. If you do fitness made easy for a year you could lose up to 50 lbs! Sure could, except when you put people on workout programs in actual randomized studies they don't lose very much weight - it's just the way the body's designed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Except they weren&#8217;t seriously scientific in their research. That 20 kg promised loss is back of the envelope hypothetical and completely unsupported by any data or testing. Anybody hawking a fad weight loss program will make up the same  numbers. If you do fitness made easy for a year you could lose up to 50 lbs! Sure could, except when you put people on workout programs in actual randomized studies they don&#8217;t lose very much weight - it&#8217;s just the way the body&#8217;s designed.</p>
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