Some of My Best Friends (and Family) Are Racists
| September 26th, 2007Editor’s Note: I don’t often share very personal stories, but I think there is something instructive in this story, so I am prepared to deal with the blowback.
I remember an argument I had with my mother a few years back. I had brought my boyfriend, a black man, who I had been dating for 4 years, to a family picnic. At the picnic, my grandfather and his wife refused to shake my ex-boyfriend’s hand because he was black. I knew something like this was going to happen, as my maternal extended relatives had made numerous bigoted comments going back to my childhood. I felt terrible for putting my ex in that situation, and I felt terrible that nobody in my family stood up and said something. They pretended like nothing happened. I was sobbing and furious, and he and I left the picnic soon after. We stopped at a fast food place, and he said, “I’ve never had anything like this happen to me before. I’m so glad we left.” I was glad to be gone, too.
After leaving I had an over the phone discussion with my mother, where my mother suggested that it was unfortunate that we left because my young cousins were crying. They liked and missed my ex and could not figure out why he had left. Her tone suggested that my ex and I were responsible for my cousins being upset, and perhaps, if we came back, they would stop crying. I remember being furious with my mother’s reaction, and I blurted out, “They should be upset. Racism hurts people. The fact that they are crying is a good thing. Hopefully, when they grow up, they will remember this so they don’t ever treat people that way.”
Later that evening, my mother and some of my aunts and cousins who felt bad about the situation came over to my apartment. I guess it was their way to try to make up for not saying anything at the picnic. They brought my younger cousins, so they could actually talk to my ex and hopefully feel better. At some point, they tried to tell me how my grandfather felt uncomfortable, and he felt like everybody was looking to see what he would do, and he made the claim that this was why he and his wife refused to shake hands. They also reminded me that my grandfather was notorious for being an abrasive person outside of his racism. But I wasn’t having it. To me this was all bullshit. Racist bullshit. Yes, he had been an asshole on other occasions, but this time he was a racist asshole.
I had listened to him and some other relatives in my extended family say pejorative things about blacks and Latinos for years. These offensive comments ranged from using the word nigger, to talking about lazy “colored” people, and making all kinds of statements about Mexican migrant farmworkers. It was rare for anybody but me to challenge this, and I didn’t even do it every time. In fact, it reached a point where people didn’t saying these things around me anymore because they knew I would get mad.1
The next Christmas my father and brother showed their solidarity with my ex (and me) by refusing to attend any events that my maternal grandfather attended.
I half forgave my grandfather and his wife even thought they never apologized and most likely they weren’t sorry for what they did. I’m not exactly sure how my ex dealt with this in the long run. By the time I saw my grandfather again, about 2 years later, I was no longer is that relationship. I had recently found out my grandfather was diagnosed with cancer, and I sat at the table and bit my tongue, while trying my best to act friendly. I know my mother, who felt torn over these events, was happy to see me sitting at that table, and I cheered when I saw him again 6 months later, and he announced his cancer had gone into remission. But I can’t lie. I was happy to be living very far away from him; I knew I didn’t have to confront this issue over and over again.
In my first month in New York, he suffered a severe stroke and heart attack. He suffered a great deal for a month or two, and then he passed away. I was sad that he died, and part of that sadness was with the fact that he never confronted any of the pain he visited on others. That racist incident defined my relationship with him over the last few years of his life. It’s really hard to remember the jokes he made when I was a child, before I knew or understood the depth of his bigotry.
This incident didn’t only change my view of him; it still lingers in the background of the relationships with many of my relatives. Some people may believe the lesson in this story is that you should make up with your loved ones before they die, but I don’t see it that way. I didn’t do anything wrong, and I didn’t want to expend any more emotional energy fighting an uphill battle. It would have been nice to get an apology for my ex and myself, but the odds of that happening were slim. To me, the lesson is that racism destroys relationships. It makes, otherwise decent people, turn a blind eye to suffering. The theory that says many white people don’t care about racism because it doesn’t effect them or their loved ones makes sense until you realize that in many cases loved ones are either perpetrators or inactive bystanders when racism is directed at their loved ones.
Racism is so insidious that it anesthetizes people to suffering of others (even others who they care about). It destroys empathetic reactions to human suffering. The victims of racism are expected to be the “bigger people” while the perpetrators get the “Get Out of Racism Free” card. Even when they know racist behavior is wrong and harmful, many white observers of racism suffer from moral paralysis. Rather than doing what is morally right, they do nothing.2
Moral paralysis is learned. It is not something that you are born with. This is actually why I was happy that my little cousins were crying when we left that picnic. Even though they didn’t quite know what was going on or why this situation was bad, it showed me that they hadn’t quite learned to be immune the suffering that racism causes. I hope, nearly 10 years later, they still get upset in those situations. I hope they have the courage to respond to bigots inside and outside our family. It may be the more difficult path to take (as I can attest to), but it’s the right one.
- I’d like to think that some stopped because they had a change of heart, but I’m not so convinced. (back)
- I’m not saying that it is easy for people who observe racist behavior to speak out. In these cases of family racism, there are often long protracted battles where people choose sides, which is not easy to do when you love someone but don’t love their behavior. Personally, I chose to withdraw rather than lobby for support. Partly, because I knew I was right; partly because I had been fighting on this issue for years prior to this; and partly because I didn’t expect to get too much support. In fact, I suspect that the amount of sympathy my partner and I received would have been inversely related to how much lobbying we did. (back)
September 27th, 2007 at 12:46 am
When my white mother’s black fiance died in a motorcycle accident, her parents refused to come to the funeral.
My mother, who lived in an orphanage during the early years of her childhood, fervently believes in the need to forgive family members. I can understand how her personality and experiences have shaped this belief, but I’ve never been as interested in forgiving her parents for the evils they’ve visited on others over the years.
Still, it was jarring to see my grandfather after he was in the car accident that killed him, when he was in so much pain and all he wanted was for someone, anyone, to keep holding his hand.
This comment was written by Mandolin.Report this comment to the moderators
September 27th, 2007 at 5:18 am
Rachel’s Note: I let this bigot through just to make a point. Y’all need to see some of the idiots out there.
This comment was written by Ed.Are you a professional victim? You knew his presence would be noted and you , forgive me, seemed to enjoy rubbing their noses in the fact of his extra melanin. Oh look everyone! I am sooo superior to you because I have the metrosexuality to be with another race! Feh. In isolated areas, they need to make a personal connection with those that are not common to their experience. Did you allow them the time and place to view him as a person or did you show him off in the manner of a designer toy?
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September 27th, 2007 at 5:23 am
Im ashamed to admit that I’ve been the white person who said nothing at moments I wish I hadn’t. This was particularly true around my ex’s family; He and I felt like it wasnt my place to challenge his family, and he felt like it wasnt worth challenging them. In no instance I can think of were there people of color around to be hurt by the casual racism, but that, to me, is not an excuse for letting that kind of stuff go.
This comment was written by curiousgyrl.Report this comment to the moderators
September 27th, 2007 at 6:17 am
It seems to me this racism did hurt your grandfather - it cost him his relationship with you. It hurt everyone in your family who was denied your presence at family events where he attended and you did not because of his attendance.
This comment was written by Disgusted Beyond Belief.Report this comment to the moderators
September 27th, 2007 at 7:18 am
A friend of my wife can no longer speak to her father because of her lesbian relationship. So freaking depressing. He even skipped their wedding.
This family-breaking stuff reminds me of this story:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/566630,092007mayor.article
“Mayor Jerry Sanders abruptly reversed his public opposition to marriage for same-sex partners and revealed that his adult daughter is a lesbian.”
Some people can make the wrong decision in life, but change their minds when it personally affects them. It’s stupid to ignore a problem until it personally affects you, but at least some are humble enough to change their minds. But it’s ludicrous to be so stubborn when you can see that your actions are hurting loved ones for no goddamned good reason at all, and keep pushing on.
@Ed:
There’s no excuse - it’s not the ’40s anymore. Even an old curmudgeon who was raised to hate blacks has had decades upon decades to get over it. There is no excuse for having a problem with an interracial relationship in the year 2007. No, you don’t need a gradual introduction, or a warning.
This comment was written by Silenced is foo..Report this comment to the moderators
September 27th, 2007 at 9:25 am
This story is painful, and painfully familiar; here’s my (Jewish) grandfather’s description of his father-in-law, my great-grandfather.
“He was a Good man. A good Christian man. A good praying baptist Christian man. And he HATED Jews.”
This comment was written by SamChevre.Report this comment to the moderators
September 27th, 2007 at 9:56 am
What I find facinating about Ed is his assumption, with no evidence, that you were parading your ex around just to feel superior. There ARE liberals who do this kind of thing to their families, but he offered no support from your story to back up his assumption that you were acting this way, rather than just , you know, bringing your boyfriend to the family picnic. Ususally, when lefties accuse whites of racism for being assholes to blacks, other whtes are quick to question the assumption of racist motives for the assholery, just as your relatives did with regard to your grandfather. Interesting that Ed did not extend the same curtesy of assuming non-racist motivations to the victims of the behavior.
This comment was written by Decnavda.Report this comment to the moderators
September 27th, 2007 at 10:04 am
Your grandfather’s behavior was abhorrent, that’s for sure.
You mentioned that you had been dating your ex for four years at the point of the family picnic. Had your ex met members of the family, or was this the first introduction?
This comment was written by Robert.Report this comment to the moderators
September 27th, 2007 at 10:43 am
My mother is married to a Panamanian man. She is unable to associate with her brother and his family because they would be even more openly uncomfortable than they were when she was a widowed single mother single-handedly raising two children without the support of any man. We’re talking southern Wisconsin and northern Illinois area here. It shocks and saddens me that people allow their own personal issues to interfere with their relationships with their own kin. If you can’t love your own blood unconditionally, then how can you function in larger society? I just don’t get it.
This comment was written by Blitzgal.Report this comment to the moderators
September 27th, 2007 at 11:43 am
Actually, whatever the commenter Ed did or didn’t do or see correctly, his point about whether you were using your ex as object really seriously merits some self-reflection IMO.
I don’t have to fully understand or agree with Ed to see the value of that point that his comment raises.
Your story presents you as a “good” white person to some extent, in relation to the overt racism you encountered.
And you know what, I actually do see racist objectification of your ex in this story itself. His subjectivity is not central. Instead, he is just part of a larger “plot line” that is centered on the subjectivities/inner realities of you and your family, the white people. He shows up in the story not as an actual person but as a Black object who the white people respond to. You have one pretty abstract line of attention to how he felt in his voice (presumably), and that’s it.
You named Ed a bigot, and you locate some of the other white people in your story as racist — are you exempt from being a primary perpetrator of white supremacy? You address passivity (not interrupting/calling out others’ racism), but I am talking about you actively perpetuating white supremacy through less overt methods, such as objectification of a person of color while maintaining the centrality and “most-humanness” of white people.
This comment was written by michelle.Report this comment to the moderators
September 27th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
@michelle
My best friend is gay, and within an artistic community that has a very small gay population. He says he has to constantly deal with straight people who want him in their little cadre of friends as a mark of their character. I believe his exact words were “I’m not your fucking Pokemon”. So, at least in my second-hand, anecdotal experience, I perceive that the problem exists.
However, I have to agree with Decnavda. It’s rather prejudiced to assume that Rachel had any reasons other than romantic ones for having a relationship with a black man. It is possible that she was initially attracted to the man out of some sort racial curiosity or something, but it’s not our place to consider it. It’s not like she’s actually given us any evidence to think so.
This comment was written by Silenced is foo..Report this comment to the moderators
September 27th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
Michelle, You’re treating this like a work of fiction, not like real life. The reason the story marginalizes his point of view is because it is told from my point of view, and when I talk about real life, deeply personal, and potentially painful issues, I cannot pretend to speak for someone else. Unfortunately, since he and I are no longer in contact and I cannot ask his permission to get his side of the story, I think it would be unfair to him for me to publicly discuss more intimate details of his reaction.
The story is about whiteness and racism, and how it negatively affects whites. I suppose I am reaffirming whiteness as central to this narrative, but for the time being I think it would be more offensive for me to pretend to speak for someone else and to publicly post more intimate personal details about the same person.
I’m curious what you (and Ed) think a white person in a serious interracial relationship is supposed to do about their racist relatives? Should you disown you’re family and make sure that your spouse or partner never has to deal with them?
This comment was written by Rachel S..Report this comment to the moderators
September 27th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
Robert said, “You mentioned that you had been dating your ex for four years at the point of the family picnic. Had your ex met members of the family, or was this the first introduction?”
Without going into all of the details. He knew many of my relatives. He had know my parents for a long time, almost the entire relationship. I’m not particularly close to my extended family, and I was in college at the time this relationship started. So my parents lived in southern Ohio (a 6 hour drive), my ex and I lived in Detroit, and my extended family lived about 1.5 hours from Detroit. I graduated from school in Detroit, and started attending a school near where my extended family lived. I saw my paternal extended family relaitves often, and they knew my ex during that time. I’d say only a few of my maternal extended family relatives had met him. Definitely my aunt and my 7-12 year old cousins had met him before. My grandfather and some of my mother’s kin had not met him.
Ok, too many details :), but it’s a complicated story.
This comment was written by Rachel S..Report this comment to the moderators
September 27th, 2007 at 1:10 pm
Silence is foo said, “It’s rather prejudiced to assume that Rachel had any reasons other than romantic ones for having a relationship with a black man.”
Yep, plus if a relationship was based on purely on racial curiousity it’s probably not going to last for 4 years.
This comment was written by Rachel S..Report this comment to the moderators
September 27th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
Some of my family in Louisiana has a couple problems. I’ve tried to address this in a small way, but it took me a while to even notice the racial situation in their neighborhoods.
This comment was written by hf.Report this comment to the moderators
September 27th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
Some of my family members are seriously racist too. I try to stay away. But as a child and even sometimes as an adult, I’ve been one of the people who sat back and willfully ignored racist comments and actions. I think I didn’t say anything because:
a) some of my racist family members are unpredictably violent and I am afraid of them.
b) the comments and actions are so frequent that I’ve chosen my battles, trying to say one thing here and there, but it would just take too much effort to call out every racist thing.
c) I don’t know what to say. Sometimes “that’s racist” isn’t enough because they don’t care if they’re racist.
It’s a tough problem. I’ve avoided all family reunions partially because of it. If they’re not family, it’s one thing. But when the racists are relatives, it’s really hard to take.
Rachel, thank you for sharing this story.
This comment was written by Elaine Vigneault.Report this comment to the moderators
September 27th, 2007 at 6:08 pm
Thanks for the comments and your insights. The richness and the diversity of views showed me once again why this blog is one of my favorites.
This comment was written by Ed.Report this comment to the moderators
September 27th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
The wife of an old friend of mine had an uber-bigot for a father. He was an Equal Opportunity Bigot: just about everyone not in the immediate family had some negative label. Race, ethnic background, religion, sexual orientation, being born in a different part of the U.S. from where he lived, being rich or being poor (relative to his economic situation), having the effrontery to apply for welfare or even unemployment insurance… you get the idea. I met the man once, when he foisted himself on his daughter for a two-week visit, and I invited them over for dinner. It was the most miserable dinner party I’ve ever given.
So, did I behave morally? No. I ignored the rants and snide comments and let them pass. That was probably the kindest thing I could do for my friend and his wife, but that wasn’t why I did it. I just didn’t have the courage to say anything in the face of that bigotry barrage. I’m ashamed of my lack of backbone that day.
Rather amazingly, this man’s daughter managed to absorb fairly little of his attitude. Of course, by that time she’d been married to my friend for two decades, and he’s actively anti-bigotry. But still…
This comment was written by Karen.Report this comment to the moderators
September 27th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
My only surviving relatives of my grandparents’ generation are garden variety, Oklahoma-grown bigots: n-word this, watermelon that; Indian cadillac this, welfare that; immoral sexual perverts this, coming after our kids that….
Since I’m gay and in a 5-year relationship with a woman of color, I’m constantly confronted with a kind of dissonance. I love my family — if I stopped loving everyone who failed me in some way, I would have no one. I know they don’t fully accept who I am or who I’m with. I’ve had hard conversations with all of them. I’m used to not being fully recognized in family situations.
The single hardest thing I’ve had to do is realize that racist, homophobic, sexist people are people. They’re pastors and grandfathers, they cook their kids oatmeal and cheer on their softball teams. They’re good people. Salt of the earth people. Who have a serious problem. They don’t get a pass because they’ve managed to end up on the wrong side of a moral battle.
I like that the lesson of your story isn’t that you should make up with relatives before they pass, it’s to realize that racism damages relationships. The point, for white people, is that we have racism in our families, in our communities, in our churches, in our jobs… we have to live with it.
This comment was written by murphy.Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 4:08 am
What!?
You had a ‘black’ boyfriend. You have a demonstrably racist family.
You invited your ‘black’ boyfriend to a gathering of your demonstrably racist family.
And then you have a Mary Sue breakdown because of the outcome.
Clearly, in order to show off your ‘enlightened’ sensibilities about race to your ‘family’, a ‘black’ man had to first walk the plank.
How many melanin enhanced men tossed over the side without a life preserver do you think might actually guilt your family into at least silent hate?
Why are you associating with your racist family anyway? Don’t tell me…you think you can change them?
Had I been him I would have been appalled by your casual disregard for my dignity, your childish need for affirmation from your racist family, and then, while walking out the door, told you to go polish some other lawn jockey.
This comment was written by Jolly Wacker.Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 6:27 am
Ug, jolly. That comment was not only rude it was sexist.
Yeah, in retrospect, it might have been better not to go. But if you don’t go because you once heard one relative say a racist thing once (thats how your family will understand your hesitation, should you choose to explain it) you are a hypersenstive elitist liberal snob. If you choose to go alone, your boyfriend, or the racist family, might think you’re ashamed of your boyfriend because he’s black.
Certainly the boyfriend deserves some kind of warning/chance to opt out in advance. But there’s nothing in this story to suggest that he didn’t get that.
This comment was written by curiousgyrl.Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 7:07 am
Because Rachel is my best friend in real life, I’m going to beg commenters to stop assuming she’s some closet racist liberal who likes to “parade” her interracial relationships for her own sake. Does she harbor some white racism? Of course she does, as a white person, we pretty much all do. And Rachel will be the first person to tell you that. And then in the next breath she will tell you that she attempts to recognize it in herself and challenge herself about it, as much as she challenges others and institutions to the degree it is in her power to do so - which is the only thing we can do.
I’m just going to say. Read her site. Realize that she does more than quite a lot of people to bring racism to the discussion, to illuminate on racist attitudes and instutional policies and she puts up with a crapload of hatred in the meantime. You can’t even believe the kinds of sexist and racist threats to her LIFE she gets harassed with basically everyday because she dares to speak out about racism. She doesn’t deserve a medal (and she’d say exactly that), she’s doing what anyone who cares about equality should be doing, she just stands out because she does it more publicly and more vocally than most whites. Give her the benefit of the fucking doubt. I know her well. I know her spouse well. I know that she’s not in an interracial relationship because it’s “cool” or to “challenge people.” She’s in an interracial relationship because the person she loves and connected to is black.
So just quit attacking her for sharing a deeply personal and painful experience. Realize that she is not, nor did she then, diminish her ex partner’s feelings or dignity, but she wrote this to illuminate on the difficulties that racism in families present to couples in interracial relationships. It’s easy for an outsider to say, “just write them off. Just ignore them all, get them out of your life.” Could YOU write off your immediate family so easily? Is she talking about how white racism hurts white people too? Yes. Is that claiming that whites are THE victim of racism? HAVE YOU READ ANYTHING RACHEL HAS WRITTEN BEFORE? Her point is much the same as Joe Feagin’s which is that racism hurts EVERYONE, including white people. Is it more personal and more detrimental to people who face the brunt of it everyday? Absolutely. And she’d be the first to tell you that. But, is it really so awful of her to point out her personal experiences of how family racism hurt her as well? Really?
Gah, I’m rambling, but this is pissing me off and Rachel is probably too diplomatic to tell you all to fuck off, so I’m doing it for her. I mean, if you’ve never ever seen anything she’s written before I guess I could understand better your less than favorable assumptions, but for God’s sakes, she’s been writing here and on her own blog for 2 years. It doesn’t take much reading of her to see that those assumptions are not only unfair, they are simply untrue.
**Note to moderators and in particular Rachel. If you think I’ve crossed a line of decorum I will understand if you want to edit or delete this. I am angry that she is being attacked like this and this post was written in anger. Rachel, if you think I misrepresented anything here or you simply think it’s better to delete this, feel free. I just can’t stand by here and watch you get attacked like this without saying something.**
This comment was written by Kate L..Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 8:00 am
Speaking just for myself, I don’t think you’re out of line. Actually, I find that you are expressing sentiments I share wholeheartedly.
—Myca
This comment was written by Myca.Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 10:51 am
” Actually, I find that you are expressing sentiments I share wholeheartedly.”
Ditto.
This comment was written by Mandolin.Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 11:22 am
Ditto, ditto, ditto.
This comment was written by Ampersand.Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 11:41 am
Well… I understand what Rachel is saying in this piece and what she is trying to present, especially as I’ve been reading her both here and on her site for a couple of years now, so I read this through that prism, but I also understand Jolly Wacker’s point of view - mainly because, in the way the story is told, the boyfriend seems surprised that he faced this reaction from some of Rachel’s family.
I don’t know, but I am going to assume that, in the 4 year relationship, that the fact that some family members were racist was discussed and that he knew what he was getting into, going to the picnic. It’s one thing to go to something like that with the expectation of, “yeah, we’re going to meet some wacked out people, let’s just deal with it, make them show who they really are”; it’s quite another to walk into what you think will be a pleasant, family type experience (”they love me, so they will love him or at least be polite to him, etc”) and be confronted with outright racism “out of the blue”… to you, the recipient.
It is not clear, from the recounting, which was the case here but I’m hoping it was the former.
The point, for white people, is that we have racism in our families, in our communities, in our churches, in our jobs… we have to live with it.
Yeah, well… unfortunately, the rest of us have to live with it too. I sometimes feel sorry for white people and the racist friends, families, communities, churches and jobs they have to live with and I am not sure what the solution is. However…
The single hardest thing I’ve had to do is realize that racist, homophobic, sexist people are people. They’re pastors and grandfathers, they cook their kids oatmeal and cheer on their softball teams. They’re good people. (emphasis mine)
I disagree. They are not.
This comment was written by Nanette.Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 12:16 pm
My wife’s family is/was as racist as the day is long. I had lived my life up until age 15 in the Boston/Providence area. Very very few blacks, but racism was not tolerated in my family. I came home as a small child and used the “N” word one time having no clue as to what it actually meant. My mother literally washed my mouth out with soap and then had a bit of a talk with me.
At 15 I moved from the Boston area to the SW Chicago suburbs. I started dating the girl I’ve now been married to for 33 years about 6 months after that. As I got to know her family, the racism was astonishing to me. Especially how casual it was.
When we got married, I had no family in the area outside of my parents and brothers. So my dad, who worked for the Boy Scouts in Chicago wanted to invite some of his friends. I gave the list to my incipient mother-in-law, only to see her get angry and start to ask me a bunch of questions. She refused to believe that I a) hadn’t read the list and b) didn’t realize that people with names like “Otis Wilson” would be black. She thought that my parents’ desire to invite blacks to her daughter’s wedding had to be either ignorant or malicious. She predicted that if any blacks showed up her family would make a scene and/or walk out. My incipient father-in-law was worried that the men would get in the reception line and kiss his daughter; he was clearly revolted at the thought. And other stuff it would take too long to write down.
I had a very hard time getting my parents to believe all this, that they were really that racist. The decision at the end was that there was no way my parents would take the chance of subjecting their friends to snubs and insults.
I really had had little exposure to racism up to that point. Even when you hear people use racist terms and thoughts, it’s hard to believe that people you know and love would actually do something like that. So I can see where Rachel would invite her black BF to a party expecting that, no matter what people thought, they’d at least act civil and behave themselves. it’s hard to believe you’re wrong until it happens.
The single hardest thing I’ve had to do is realize that racist, homophobic, sexist people are people. They’re pastors and grandfathers, they cook their kids oatmeal and cheer on their softball teams. They’re good people. (emphasis mine)
These two were hard-working folks. He was a carpenter, a union member for 40 years. Supported charities, volunteer work. Knights of Columbus, VFW, VFW Women’s Auxiliary, Eastern Star, etc., etc. You’d have never thought this kind of thing.
This comment was written by RonF.Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Having recently listened to my brother go on at great length about how the racism in South Africa isn’t about skin color, it’s about culture, etc., etc. I’m well aware and freshly frustrated at the problem.
If you challenge the assumptions behind the racism, or sexism, or anti-Semitism, or homophobia, then you’re the one who’s so angry and difficult. It’s the same phenomena that permits men to harass women on the street, the same sort of behavior that permits religious leaders to sexually abuse their flock. We police ourselves, as well as being policed by our families.
This comment was written by Kaethe.Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Having recently listened to my brother go on at great length about how the racism in South Africa isn’t about skin color, it’s about culture, etc., etc. I’m well aware and freshly frustrated at the problem.
To me, this attitude is hilarious. MOST racism is about culture. Do you think American bigots hate blacks because they’re black? No, they hate blacks because they think that every black person is a stupid inner-city drug-dealing pimp.
Racism is the combination of negative cultural assumptions and the prejudiced application of those assumptions to an entire group based on their most identifiable feature - their race.
Do South Africans really think they’re better than other bigots because they happen to have crime-ridden ghettos of undereducated Africans in their country?
This comment was written by Silenced is foo..Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
Perhaps I should have made it clear that we knew the racist reaction was possible. I just figured that people would realize that within the four years my ex and I had obviously discussed family issues (both his and mine).
I personally feel like the tendency to think we hadn’t discussed my family’s racism is part of a common racist reaction to interracial relationships. For whatever reason, when you are in an interracial relationship, people tend to take your relationship less seriously than it really is. They also tend to think you have more problems than you do. Seriously, does anybody really think that I would have gone 4 years without bringing this issue up or that my ex (who is a very socially intuitive person) could not have figured out that some of my relatives are bigots.
It reminds me of a recent thing that happened at my gym. My husband and I have been going there for three years (3-5 times a week), so people know us and see us all the time. About 4 or 5 months ago, one of the guys who signed us up said, “I didn’t know you were married.” Now I can understand why he could think this–we have different last names; and we never wear rings to the gym. But it’s a small gym and we’ve been there for 3 years, and it’s this has happened before in other places. People think we are dating, not married. It could be coincidence, but I don’t think it is.
This comment was written by Rachel S..Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Nanette said, “I understand what Rachel is saying in this piece and what she is trying to present, especially as I’ve been reading her both here and on her site for a couple of years now, so I read this through that prism, but I also understand Jolly Wacker’s point of view - mainly because, in the way the story is told, the boyfriend seems surprised that he faced this reaction from some of Rachel’s family.”
I wasn’t surprised that people were racist, and we debated long and hard about whether or not to even go to this event. However, what was surprising was the ways their racism manifested. I expected people to either sort of ignore the two of us or make odd inappropriate comments. What I didn’t expect was that my grandfather would even shake his hand, and I also thought that at least someone besides me would shame him and his wife for acting that way. In fact, the silence of others was in some ways more disturbing because it was less expected. I think he was surprised that someone would be so blatantly bigoted.
We never know exactly how others are going to react when they are bigots. Whether it’s anti-gay, anti-woman, anti-Jewish, or in this case anti-black, we can only guess how people are going to react. You can’t hide from them or avoid them for ever. At some point they need to be confronted. I’d venture to say everyone here has dealt with these issues at one point or another. I have yet to meet a person who has bigotry free friends or relatives.
This comment was written by Rachel S..Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
Thanks Kate. :)
You’re a great friend.
I was too annoyed to even respond to that racist, sexist, condescending, pig.
This comment was written by Rachel S..Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
@ Rachel and Kate L:
Oh Rachel, I so hoped you wouldn’t respond defensively! I so hoped! I really truly did! Because I am a fool and no matter what I know about the patterns, I keep hoping that “this time will be different.” But no.
Anyway, for me it wasn’t about intimate details or fiction or whatever, it was about how you locate a Black man as an object in what you recounted of your experiences.
I feel that deserves some critical self-reflection rather than a defense of yourself and argument and attempt to redirect the conversation to what is most important to you …
Sigh
Kate L: IMO attending to a white person’s practice of racism is not an “attack,” and really doesn’t require defense (in your case, defense for the vulnerable and courageous white woman). Why perceive it that way? She is raising the issue of white people’s active practice of racism and seems to want to address it in others in her family and not in herself. Why, is she one of the “good white people” to the point where she is certified “racism free” and has only to look at how she responds when others actively practice racism?
—————-
@Silenced is foo
My best friend is gay, and within an artistic community that has a very small gay population. He says he has to constantly deal with straight people who want him in their little cadre of friends as a mark of their character. I believe his exact words were “I’m not your fucking Pokemon”. So, at least in my second-hand, anecdotal experience, I perceive that the problem exists.
I don’t appreciate you, a straight person I assume, using your gay best friend’s experiences as supposed evidence that you can assess whether “the problem exists” (and there are just SO many layers of wrong in how you are saying/seeing this that I won’t get into all of it, but especially because you then went on to dismiss it).
You then wrote:
It’s rather prejudiced to assume that Rachel had any reasons other than romantic ones for having a relationship with a black man. It is possible that she was initially attracted to the man out of some sort racial curiosity or something, but it’s not our place to consider it. It’s not like she’s actually given us any evidence to think so.
Okay (sigh):
1. That assumes that the default for white people is “not racist” — and that there needs to be evidence for the assumption that Rachel is or was actively practicing racism in this situation. I disagree with that totally.
In a racist/white supremacist society, white people are agents of racism/white supremacy in many many ways, including ways that white people perceive as “normal” and “having nothing to do with race” — and yes even “romantic.”
2. And I myself personally do see evidence that Rachel is practicing racism here, the evidence being how she objectifies her ex in the actual telling of the story. But then I already said that.
3. Your focus in the comment and especially the part saying that “it is not our place to consider it” invests control in the white person’s hands.
In your approach, the assessment is about Rachel’s inner motivations, intentions, feelings — rather than her actions that are observable by others and do not require her consensus to analyze how she might be practicing racism. In your approach, she is the only person who can speak to her inner motivations, intentions and feelings. That means she is ultimately in control of defining the situation and has the final say in assessing whether and how she is practicing racism.
But if we look at her ACTIONS as primary, then anyone can make an assessment, whatever it is, accurate or not, based on what is right in front of them — and there is no need to consult the white woman in order to suggest, discuss, name etc her practice of racism.
————————-
And in general:
What’s the deal with white people wanting to prove “look I am not racist!”? (that is both a rhetorical and non-rhetorical question).
I mean, as if it is some essence rather than action, as if a white person who acts against racism over here cannot act to perpetuate racism over there. As if there is some sort of special not-racist white “self” and image and it’s all about maintaining and defending that, rather than honestly looking at what is going on?
Seems to me that the whole thing with this rests on the assumption that there are good and bad white people and that racism is more like an individual inner essence — rather than specific actions that perpetuate a racist/white supremacist system.
So instead of honest and open attention and curiosity to “how might I be perpetuating this system in my specific actions” … the task for white people is to prove “I am not a racist.”
And so attention to acts that do or might perpetuate racism morphs into a supposed test of the white person’s character rather than attention to what is actually going on and how it might be supporting or challenging the white supremacist system.
This comment was written by michelle.Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
And, I missed this on the first read through of the replies, Rachel wrote:
I personally feel like the tendency to think we hadn’t discussed my family’s racism is part of a common racist reaction to interracial relationships. For whatever reason, when you are in an interracial relationship, people tend to take your relationship less seriously than it really is. They also tend to think you have more problems than you do.
So wait a minute … just a minute … so does that perspective mean that you as a white woman have shifted locations in the system and become an actual or potential victim of racism in the racism/white supremacy system if you are in a relationship with a Black man?
If not, good. But if so, that really doesn’t seem right to me. Not at all.
And I’m thinking you might want to look at who raised this specific issue in this discussion. I don’t know the details or who is coming from where, but reading the comments and where/how this was raised, this question comes up for me:
Given the actual situation on this blog in terms of who raised this specific issue — could you possibly be suggesting that you as a white woman in a (past) relationship with a Black man, could you possibly be suggesting that you have been targeted in this discussion by people of color who are “racist” about it because they are not just assuming the correct things about your relationship?
(that is not a rhetorical question in any way).
This comment was written by michelle.Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
Rachel said: Perhaps I should have made it clear that we knew the racist reaction was possible. I just figured that people would realize that within the four years my ex and I had obviously discussed family issues (both his and mine).
I personally feel like the tendency to think we hadn’t discussed my family’s racism is part of a common racist reaction to interracial relationships.
Hm. Well, I don’t think that necessarily follows. Nor (though I did lean toward assuming it) is there much indication in the original accounting of the event that there was prior discussion of what he might be faced with, partially because your ex- boyfriend is only briefly sketched into the story (for reasons you’ve explained in comments). Still…
“I felt terrible for putting my ex in that situation,”
he said, “I’ve never had anything like this happen to me before. I’m so glad we left.”
I’m not exactly sure how my ex dealt with this in the long run.
… all combine to give the impression of someone possibly blindsided by something and maybe even experiencing some residual trauma as a result of it. I am not sure it’s helpful (to the overall discussion) to assume that the reaction of some people to that part of the original post - which also made me extremely uncomfortable, though probably less so since I am familiar with your work - is because of bigotry.
This comment was written by Nanette.Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
[Comment deleted. On reflection, I have no interest in this particular thread of the conversation.]
This comment was written by Mandolin.Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
Michelle raises an important and interesting point; it’s one that Iam about to try to deal with in the My Daughter’s Vagina essay that I am serializing on this blog. In Part 1 I talked about the two women with whom I did an independent study and how they each wanted to write about their experience of child sexual abuse; I also mentioned in that section that they were women of color and that I am a white man. When I originally wrote My Daughter’s Vagina more than five years ago, the fact that they were women of color disappeared after the initial mention; I did not take it up as an issue in the essay at all, even though I mentioned the women themselves again and again. I’m not going to go into much detail here, since the details will come out in Part 6 of the essay when I post it. What I want to say here is, simply, this: It is not that the women and I did not discuss race and racism in the context of our working together. We did, at length and in detail. When it came to write about them, though, I did not have readily available to me a conscious vocabulary, integrated into my own experience, with which I could bring our discussions/awarenesses of race into the discussion of sexuality that was/is for me the central concern of the essay. It was only after I wrote the piece, and only after some time had passed, that I understood what I had left out and how what I had left out actually skewered the essay itself on a whole range of different levels. I did not, in other words, even perceive this aspect of my own racism until I had, so to speak, performed it.
This comment was written by Richard Jeffrey Newman.Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
Michelle, I have no idea how many times you have read this site or any other sites I have posted on, but I have never claimed that I am not racist. I believe everyone is part of the system of racism.
What I object to is your desire to have me tell another person’s view on the same event. You want me to reframe the story and speak for someone else, and I won’t be doing that.
But what you and some of the other commenters seem unable to do is offer any real life concrete suggestions about how people should deal with these kinds of situations. You’re tone is incredibly abstract, and you seem unable to understand how whites can be the targets of white racism.
I agree with you that racism isn’t only about “moral failings.” It is a system. And I agree that we have to examine our own privilege.
Anyways, I have more to say and not enough time to say, so perhaps I’ll return to this discussion later.
This comment was written by Rachel S..Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
Yeah Nanette, I think you are right people latched on to those particular lines of the post, and twisted them around a little while ignoring some other relevant details, such as the fact that the relationship was long term. Perhaps I could have written the story in a different way.
Moreover, I think people are also misinterpreting me saying I regret putting him in that situation. Maybe I should have used a different word choice because I don’t regret taking him there to the family gathering. I regret that my relatives acted like racist assholes, and if he never would have known me, then perhaps this would have never happened. You know when you care for people you try to look out for them, and it’s really hard to protect people from relatives unless you cut off contact and pretend they don’t exist, which is what I did for a long time after this event. Unfortunately, that didn’t make the problem go away either.
This comment was written by Rachel S..Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 4:53 pm
michelle said, “So wait a minute … just a minute … so does that perspective mean that you as a white woman have shifted locations in the system and become an actual or potential victim of racism in the racism/white supremacy system if you are in a relationship with a Black man?”
Michele the author Heather Dalmage uses the term rebound racism to describe these kinds of incidents. So yes, I have been the victim of white supremacy because I was and am in an interracial relationship. That doesn’t mean I don’t have white privilege; it doesn’t mean that if my relationship ends that my life is going to get easier.
White racism does victimize whites, especially whites wh o stand up to it.
I don’t think that whites are hurt in any way to the extent that people of color are hurt by racism, but the system of white supremacy can hurt whites.
“Given the actual situation on this blog in terms of who raised this specific issue — could you possibly be suggesting that you as a white woman in a (past) relationship with a Black man, could you possibly be suggesting that you have been targeted in this discussion by people of color who are “racist” about it because they are not just assuming the correct things about your relationship?”
First, of all I don’t think everyone who has targeted me is a person of color (when people assume they make an ass out of themselves). I want to know how you think people are assuming the “correct things” about this relationship. On what basis do you know that you personally have all the facts and are being fair.
I think you’re point about reflecting on privilege is fair, and if you read the totality of my work you would find pieces that do that. What I think is unfair is that you felt more than OK jumping to conclusions, and telling me to write something different and do so by using my voice to speak entirely for someone else.
I am saying that most opposition to interracial relationships is a product of racial prejudice and white racism, and I’m not going to back down from that. A few people have felt more than free to make assumptions and somewhat inappropriate comments in this discussion; comments that they would never direct at a couple where bother people are of the same race.
This comment was written by Rachel S..Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
And more more thing so it’s very clear, I am not now, nor have I ever said,
1) People in interracial relationships cannot be racist.
2) Whites in interracial relationships face the same level of discrimination as people of color.
3) Being in an interracial relationship means I understand everything about racism.
I just want to make that t-totally clear, since I know not everyone has read everything I’ve written on the subject.
This comment was written by Rachel S..Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
Rachel,
You wrote: But what you and some of the other commenters seem unable to do is offer any real life concrete suggestions about how people should deal with these kinds of situations.
My suggestions are:
1. If you are going to write publicly about “these kinds of situations,” do so from a space of being actively open to criticism, because as a white person recounting stuff like this, you may well be practicing racism in what you are doing and/or how you are doing it.
2. Stand responsible for what you do each and every time you act, and don’t be defensive.
3. When you write about racism, assume that you likely do NOT know all of the implications and effects of what you are saying or how you are seeing things.
…. Which are probably all versions of the same basic suggestion.
Other stuff:
First, of all I don’t think everyone who has targeted me is a person of color (when people assume they make an ass out of themselves). I want to know how you think people are assuming the “correct things” about this relationship. On what basis do you know that you personally have all the facts and are being fair.
You’re still being defensive! Why why why? Rachel, what are you defending and why is it so important to defend it? What would happen if you just stopped being defensive? Would that be such a horrible thing to do?
Anyway. In my comments I am responding specifically to what is in front of me in your post and this discussion — your recounting of your experiences and perspective, your (and others’) responses etc. This is not abstract to me, since what you are doing is right in front of all of us.
As I see it, your post was messed-up in some specific ways. And in your responses, you have employed various very common white-person tactics of defending yourself (both explicitly and subtly), rather than being genuinely open and honest and standing responsible for your actions and their effects, regardless of your intent or what you really meant or whatever.
The way I see things, there is no reason for me to assume you are overall thoughtful and self-critical on these issues (offline or online) since you are not being particularly thoughtful and self-critical in this discussion in any substantive way. You just keep defending yourself — to the point where you can’t even admit that there was something not-okay about what you wrote without casting yourself as misunderstood and others as twisting and latching on and making incorrect assumptions.
Your actions speak here as elsewhere. They may not always say the same thing, but they speak louder than your interpretations of and defenses of your actions, in my view.
This comment was written by michelle.Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
I had my ‘husband’ first read Rachel’s post and then my comment so that I might obtain a measure of my rebuttal. Did it fall wide of the plate? And you know what? He was just as appalled by the level of narcissism on display as I was. Obviously, to some here, he too would be ‘wrong’. Or “sexist”. Or whatever label dished to stifle dissent.
As is demonstrated by other’s comments, I am not alone in the opinion that it is not only your framing of this ‘personal’ story, but the objectification (let alone active absence) of the other principal player, the ‘black’ man, which invites interpretations such as my own.
I am not at fault here, your story is, and posting addenda in comments does not bring greater legitimacy to the post. Perhaps if you had passed this across the desk for review prior to publishing you would understand your error in judgement. We expect journalists to provide their sources so how you could possibly recount this story without providing the ‘black’ man’s side of the story. As it is he’s just a token player in a morality tale which reads like a recovering racist still working out the kinks in their deprogramming.
As for slapping my comment with the “sexist” label, curiosgyrl, perhaps you could go to the bother of validating your claim rather than just throwing labels around like so much confetti.
As for others who run to the parapets like clucking chickens to throw epithets in Rachel’s defense I, for one, assume Rachel is a grown woman who, if she is prepared to recount her ‘personal’ life in public, also possesses a skin thick enough to endure the slings and arrows thrown at her because of said content. Perhaps you regard her and her story as a fragile thing to be cherished and cooed over like a little pony, but I’m under no obligation to coddle or patronize her like the ’sexist’ meanie curiosgyrl would assume I am.
I’m neither her mommy, her daddy, her brother, her sister or BFF, and it shouldn’t be a requirement here to frame my comments as though I were. I am an observer, an observer who could recount his own objective and subjective observations of and responses to racism, sexism and homophobia—whether overt or casual—if I were so inclined. But submitted accounts of my life’s experience are not relevant here, and I neither desire or need to hold your hand as though I were on the set of Oprah.
Rachel is who she presents herself to be in her own writing. If she is criticized for its content or that content is readily misconstrued or misinterpreted, well, that’s the author’s fault, not the readers. Defaulting to blaming the reader insinuates that the validity of Rachel’s interpretation of her own experience supersedes any other—just because…just because she is the author.
This comment was written by Jolly Wacker.Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 7:45 pm
1. That assumes that the default for white people is “not racist” — and that there needs to be evidence for the assumption that Rachel is or was actively practicing racism in this situation. I disagree with that totally.
In a racist/white supremacist society, white people are agents of racism/white supremacy in many many ways, including ways that white people perceive as “normal” and “having nothing to do with race” — and yes even “romantic.”
Please. Please, in the name of all that is holy and beautiful in the world, tell me that this is a troll. You’re seriously arguing that we should be prejudiced about peoples prejudices?
Doesn’t this cause some kind of mental recursion stack-overflow thing?
This comment was written by Silenced is foo.Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 7:53 pm
Listen Jolly, you were patronizing and sexist. You deployed several very virulent stereotypes. You said, “…but I’m under no obligation to coddle or patronize her like the ’sexist’ meanie curiosgyrl would assume I am.”
Well then why in the hell did you do that?
This comment was written by Rachel S..Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 8:01 pm
Michelle said, “You’re still being defensive! Why why why? Rachel, what are you defending and why is it so important to defend it? What would happen if you just stopped being defensive? Would that be such a horrible thing to do?”
I’m being defensive because two people launched very insensitive, patronizing, sexist, and racist attacks at me and this post. And you came in a defended what was really an absurd comment. I’ll stop defending when people stop attacking and thinking it is OK to make very racist, sexist, and patronizing assumptions.
Michelle said, “As I see it, your post was messed-up in some specific ways.”
Such as…….
Michelle said, “…rather than being genuinely open and honest and standing responsible for your actions and their effects, regardless of your intent or what you really meant or whatever.”
So now you are calling me a liar? And I’m not supposed to be defensive. LOL!
Michelle said, “The way I see things, there is no reason for me to assume you are overall thoughtful and self-critical on these issues (offline or online) since you are not being particularly thoughtful and self-critical in this discussion in any substantive way. You just keep defending yourself — to the point where you can’t even admit that there was something not-okay about what you wrote without casting yourself as misunderstood and others as twisting and latching on and making incorrect assumptions.”
Ok, offer something…..
This comment was written by Rachel S..Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
“You deployed several very virulent stereotypes”.
Examples and context, please.
This comment was written by Jolly Wacker.Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
You know upon further reflection. I suppose I should explain to Michelle why it is so easy to become defensive over this subject. When you are in an interracial relationship, you frequently have to deal with people who question the legitimacy of your relationship based on nothing other than blatant racial stereotypes. So part of my defensiveness (to two comments that just about any person in an interracial relationship would find insulting) is from the fact that you do constantly have to defend your relationship.
I know this is probably hard for someone who has never been in a serious relationship with a person from another racial background to understand.
But when you are in an interracial relationship, you are frequently defending your relationship (and your children if you have them). You have to fend off to racist friends and family members, who would rather see it end. You fend off strangers who stare at you and your partner and make rude or snide remarks. You even fend off threats to your health and safety. My stepson (who is black) had to deal with little kids bothering him by constantly asking, “is that your mommy?’
So I suppose I am indeed defensive, it’s hard not to be defensive when people constantly attack the legitimacy of your relationship and your family.
If this were a one shot deal of a debate in a blog forum it would be different, but it’s not. It’s real life; it’s everyday. I wrote this post about a week ago, and I delayed putting it up because I debated about whether or not I would have the mental and emotional energy to fight. I’m still waiting for my mother to read the post and complain about how I aired the family dirty laundry, and I expected negative comments. Of course, anybody who’s been around here long enough knows damn near every post I put up attracts criticism, so I’m somewhat prepared, but on something this serious and this personal the criticism stings much more.
This comment was written by Rachel S..Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 9:33 pm
Rachel, I appreciate that you chose to share this story & I realize that this represents a young idealistic you.
But this has to be said. Black people are exactly like every other human being. We want our friggin peace of mind! We have to deal with racism– overt or subtle–most days. We experience racism before we’re even old enough to know that’s what we’re experiencing. While some of other races love us, they can never be us. HERE’S THE SCOOP: We don’t EVER want to deal with racists when we don’t have to. Would any of you want to spend you free time dealing with racism directed towards you?
I’ve been in a situation where I wondered if I called the abuser a ’small minded skeevy b$$$$’ will I still have a relationship when this is over? Do I want to keep going through this for a slice of cake & punch? Wouldn’t it be easier to end the relationship & not have to do this again?
Rachel’s family brought her to tears. You know what makes me want to cry? The denial shown by the people who care about us when they walk us into these bizarre situations. If nonblack people don’t know how to respond to these people, what the hell can a black person say or do to change them? I mean at least they like you. Maybe some think that because blacks deal with this attitude on a regular they develop a ’strong back.’ Not true, each ignorant action/remark feels like the first.
It’s not wrong to hope that your family will except your partner, but it is wrong to put that hope above reality & damage someone you care about. From your response to another commenter, your partner was already accepted by those closest to you. I’ll bet that you went to that gathering with the attitude ‘I’m gonna make them accept him.’ But he didn’t need that. He had tons of people who already loved & accepted him. Black people & other POC understand the way the world works. We don’t have a need to change the heart of every racist, we don’t need to be accepted by everyone (just the people who care about us). Also, because we’re human, we don’t always turn the other cheek.
This comment was written by patsgirl.I will always stand up to hate. Whether it’s directed at me or someone of another race/sex. Thanks for letting me speak on this.
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September 28th, 2007 at 10:02 pm
This seems like a particularly important point to me. In attempting to reform (if that’s even possible) other people from their bigoted viewpoints, is the direct approach really all that useful?
I’ve ran into this problem myself; out of fear of losing or alienating my friends, I typically (and, I’ll be the first to admit here, cowardly) keep quiet around bigotry. Sometimes, I’ve gone a little farther, become confrontational or argumentative. All that ever seems to happen is that the friendship becomes a little more sour; I can’t see into anyone else’s minds to be sure, but it doesn’t seem like I’m making progress.
For a third party, staying silent during situations like Rachel’s just conveys approval, but speaking out just seems to create antagonism. So, is there a good balance that I can strike between these two extremes? Do I just need to learn to make my points differently? What are y’alls experiences with this?
This comment was written by David Simon.Report this comment to the moderators
September 28th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
“The point, for white people, is that we have racism in our families, in our communities, in our churches, in our jobs… we have to live with it.”
Black families have racists too (and the reasons are historically warranted). The difference is black families make it clear to their members that if you can’t be civil then sit your ass down & shut up. It’s a whole ‘don’t embarass the race’ thing. That’s why whites believe that black families are so much more accepting of interracials. But this is not true. Black families have strong negative feelings, but will rarely act on them. And they usually get over it. None of that disowning stuff.
“The single hardest thing I’ve had to do is realize that racist, homophobic, sexist people are people. They’re pastors and grandfathers, they cook their kids oatmeal and cheer on their softball teams. They’re good people. (emphasis mine)”
Nanette is right. That’s like saying rapists are good people.
This comment was written by patsgirl.Report this comment to the moderators
September 29th, 2007 at 12:01 am
Jeez! I keep coming back.
This comment was written by patsgirl.Rachel, You ask for concrete ways to respond to this crap, ways to defend yourself & your loved ones against it. Hell, even black people don’t always know what to say to racists. Honestly, our first instinct is to kick ass. If there is a way to get rid of racism a lot of good people want to know.
Most of us are weary as shit. Some of us have turned to denial to get through (accepted the ‘color blind’ theory). When I hear & read some the pompous comments here & in other places it makes me tiiiiiiired. I don’t like the ‘I’m such a matyr to the cause’ thing, because it comes acrosss as ‘I’m doing you people a favor by sacrificing my priviledge to be with one of your kind’ (not said by Rachel). Aren’t you getting something out of the relationship too–love, companionship, etc? Otherwise why go through the stress of being in it.
Being a minority in a racist society is constantly being paranoid about who you let into your world & who you voluntarily interact with, because you really never know who’s a racist. The same applies when you’re with a minority–you’ll always question peoples motives (like with the guy at the gym).
You said that you’re on the defensive because of peoples responses to your relationship. That’s how every black person I know & love lives (whether we’re in an interracial relationship or not).
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September 29th, 2007 at 2:03 am
Michelle wrote:
I think your expectations for three paragraphs of an autobiographical blog post are questionable. (I know the post is more than three paragraphs, but there are only three paragraphs set in the time period in which Rachel was dating this man; the other paragraphs take place in other periods of Rachel’s life). In a longer piece — a magazine essay, say, or certainly a book — it’s reasonable to want all the characters to be fully fleshed-out characters. But that expectation isn’t realistic for three paragraphs of a blog post.
I also think it’s critical that white people write critically about whiteness and white racism. Doing so will necessarily entail focusing on white people and whiteness some of the time. I think this post — which is centered on the racism of Rachel’s family, not on the subjectivity of her ex — is an example of this.
None of this is to say that Rachel or anyone else should be immune from criticism in general. I just think that the specific criticism you have made isn’t fair, in this context.
This comment was written by Ampersand.Report this comment to the moderators
September 29th, 2007 at 8:49 am
patsgirl said, “You said that you’re on the defensive because of peoples responses to your relationship. That’s how every black person I know & love lives (whether we’re in an interracial relationship or not).”
I think thats a very important point. It’s the psychology of racism for people of color and whites who challenge racism. There is a constant defensiveness because there is a constant attack.
This comment was written by Rachel S..Report this comment to the moderators
September 29th, 2007 at 9:18 am
Sexist:
you used the story as evidence of feminine neurosis in a stereotypical way
this sentence uses sexist and racist stereotypes to demean rachel. That you were pretending to “speak” in her ex boyfriends voice makes it more, not less, offensive.
This comment was written by curiousgyrl.Report this comment to the moderators
September 29th, 2007 at 10:25 am
Frankly, I also think the word “objectified” is being misused in this context, though if someone wants to pull out the sentences where Rachel S. treats her ex as an object rather than a person, that would change my mind.
Lack of character development =/= objectification.
This comment was written by Mandolin.Report this comment to the moderators
September 29th, 2007 at 10:31 am
Yeah, I’d say everyone is right — racists aren’t “good people.” Neither are homophobes or sexists or …
But my larger point is that most, if not all, white people are racist. You can probably count the number of fully gay-accepting straight people on one hand. My brother, great as he is, still thinks women can’t drive and aren’t funny. One of the defining struggles in my life is how to recognize political, emotional and moral faults in people close to me and see them as opportunities, not barriers. The way I’ve done this (and this is just a personal coping method, really) is to try to reach the good in them. I think there’s good in most people, they’ve just grown up in a horrible system.
I can understand that this isn’t the only way or necessarily the best way to deal with family. Sometimes you have to isolate yourself from that kind of poison. There’s a lot of shame in realizing your family is full of horrible people with huge blocks around race, gender, sexuality (and that being somehow ‘better’ than them about these issues doesn’t exempt you from having your own blocks). I actually wonder my strategy isn’t a product of being queer — since the people I love the most and really respect were horrible people when I came out to them, I had to have faith that they could change and that I could learn to forgive.
This comment was written by murphy.Report this comment to the moderators
September 29th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
Because:
and
and:
When racism is both thought to be the “default” or “assumed” white condition; when being racist is thought to disqualify one as a good person and even get one compared to a freakin’ rapist…
If you need to ask a fucking “non-rhetorical question” about why someone might want to AVOID getting classified in that manner, you need your head examined.
And if you’re willing to judge Rachel so harshly, i invite you to start putting aspects of your life on display. Can’t you distinguish between a retrospective writing that someone uses to help themselves and others see more about an issue, and a boastful writing in which the author claims omniscience and perfect quality? To use your phrase, that is both a rhetorical and a non-rhetorical question.
This comment was written by Sailorman.Report this comment to the moderators
September 29th, 2007 at 5:48 pm
If Rachel’s post had been about the effect of this incident on her and her ex’s relationship, some of the criticism about “objectifying” ex might be more on the mark. You would expect more detail on his feelings and reactions than “I’m so glad we left.” You would certainly expect more detail about him as a unique human being beyond the fact that he is black.
However, the focus of the article was the impact this incident had on Rachel’s relationshiop with her grandfather and other family members. There was no need to go into detail about her ex and how the incident affected him. Besides, she has given no indication that her ex would be incapable of writing about the incident from his ow