Comments on: Paramedics Allow Woman to Die Because of Her Weight http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/ Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 14:49:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Jackie http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-316314 Jackie Sun, 20 Jan 2008 21:07:59 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-316314 It was like how I was arguing with someone yesterday about size acceptance, and he said he had five doctors in his family and they discuss it all the time. So I said, "So tell me then, does the Hippocratic Oath mean anything at all?" All he said, was "Thats. Not. The. Point." In other words, he didn't want to admit the doctors in his family were all sizeist and prejudced. Of course, it goes without saying that he's obessed with the idea of being 100 pounds overweight. I'm sure most people would feel neurotic having to be around 5 doctors who belive the obesity hysteria. It was like how I was arguing with someone yesterday about size acceptance, and he said he had five doctors in his family and they discuss it all the time. So I said, “So tell me then, does the Hippocratic Oath mean anything at all?” All he said, was “Thats. Not. The. Point.” In other words, he didn’t want to admit the doctors in his family were all sizeist and prejudced.

Of course, it goes without saying that he’s obessed with the idea of being 100 pounds overweight. I’m sure most people would feel neurotic having to be around 5 doctors who belive the obesity hysteria.

]]> By: Laurel http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-316255 Laurel Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:34:27 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-316255 My father (post #2) was heavier, more on the order of 300 pounds. Three years before he died, he almost died (bleeding ulcer) on a bathroom floor because he had a broken ankle that kept him from helping the paramedics get him onto a gurney, which ended up being a six-person job. I am not making this up. The reason I did not give the details of his death by idiocy in post #2 is that my mother may yet go to court over this. Whether the original story was correct in its details or not, similar things happen all the time. Really: three times in my immediate family within the last ten years. If there is an advocacy group, I'd love to know about it. I don't care why a person is big--they deserve to be taken seriously by the medical profession. My father (post #2) was heavier, more on the order of 300 pounds. Three years before he died, he almost died (bleeding ulcer) on a bathroom floor because he had a broken ankle that kept him from helping the paramedics get him onto a gurney, which ended up being a six-person job.

I am not making this up. The reason I did not give the details of his death by idiocy in post #2 is that my mother may yet go to court over this. Whether the original story was correct in its details or not, similar things happen all the time. Really: three times in my immediate family within the last ten years. If there is an advocacy group, I’d love to know about it. I don’t care why a person is big–they deserve to be taken seriously by the medical profession.

]]> By: Jackie http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-316249 Jackie Sat, 19 Jan 2008 18:24:54 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-316249 Did you hear the story, about the fat woman who was left in a hospital for hours, writhing in pain while nobody helped her? They just were like, twiddling their thumbs, when there is a person writhing in pain in front of them, screaming. Oh but you know, who cares, she's fat she was gonna die anyways.* I agree with what Kate said. About how hard it is to figure out how to put a fat woman in a wheelchair, while you're knee-slapping about how she's fat. I would expect this lack of concern for another person, in a horror film. Cause it IS horrific. That there are people out there, who would just sit and watch as someone dies. Isn't that like, a sign of having the mind of a serial killer or something? * Refers to when I'm being sarcastic. Did you hear the story, about the fat woman who was left in a hospital for hours, writhing in pain while nobody helped her? They just were like, twiddling their thumbs, when there is a person writhing in pain in front of them, screaming. Oh but you know, who cares, she’s fat she was gonna die anyways.*

I agree with what Kate said. About how hard it is to figure out how to put a fat woman in a wheelchair, while you’re knee-slapping about how she’s fat. I would expect this lack of concern for another person, in a horror film. Cause it IS horrific. That there are people out there, who would just sit and watch as someone dies. Isn’t that like, a sign of having the mind of a serial killer or something?

* Refers to when I’m being sarcastic.

]]> By: perianwyr http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-309525 perianwyr Fri, 09 Nov 2007 03:47:13 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-309525 Well, I don't automatically believe the allegations, either. As freaking awful as this is, actually I find it laughable that two people called paramedics couldn't move 250 pounds. I can move more than half that myself and I am a weak bastard. That's all that makes me wonder about the veracity of the story, it just feels very improbable. Well, I don’t automatically believe the allegations, either. As freaking awful as this is, actually I find it laughable that two people called paramedics couldn’t move 250 pounds. I can move more than half that myself and I am a weak bastard. That’s all that makes me wonder about the veracity of the story, it just feels very improbable.

]]> By: Lisa Harney http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307850 Lisa Harney Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:46:54 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307850 <blockquote>I don’t quite believe the allegation. It has too much of a WMD feel about it. Are we supposed to automatically take this man’s words as gospel? I just can’t make that leap.</blockquote> I know of at least one case where this has happened before (Washington DC, Tyra Hunter). It's not implausible to me that it could happen again, or that they'd pick on a woman's weight rather than help her. Are we just supposed to disbelieve any allegations about paramedics, firefighters, or police officers behaving poorly? This stuff - this kind of violence - happens.

I don’t quite believe the allegation. It has too much of a WMD feel about it. Are we supposed to automatically take this man’s words as gospel? I just can’t make that leap.

I know of at least one case where this has happened before (Washington DC, Tyra Hunter). It’s not implausible to me that it could happen again, or that they’d pick on a woman’s weight rather than help her.

Are we just supposed to disbelieve any allegations about paramedics, firefighters, or police officers behaving poorly? This stuff - this kind of violence - happens.

]]> By: medrecgal http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307726 medrecgal Mon, 22 Oct 2007 02:57:26 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307726 Those paramedics were idiots, to put it nicely. (If I said what I really thought I'd be banned from commenting!) I don't know what it is about paramedics and such, but I've read stories quite similar to this before. Maybe it's some combination of "fat-phobia" and misogyny? (Operating here under the experience that most paramedics are male, BTW.) I had an experience earlier in the year where I wound up as a not particularly mobile hospital patient, and as someone not much thinner than 245 I was fortunate not to have the kind of experience this woman did. (They had quite a few guys on their transport staff who could obviously handle people of all sizes, and none of them had the kind of bad attitude emanating from the paramedics in this post!) Did these guys not know there is equipment specifically designed to help with the lifting and transport of larger individuals, or what? (And there are also ways to accomplish it without special equipment, if you have some experience.) Geez...sad commentary on both sexism and sizeism. Those paramedics were idiots, to put it nicely. (If I said what I really thought I’d be banned from commenting!) I don’t know what it is about paramedics and such, but I’ve read stories quite similar to this before. Maybe it’s some combination of “fat-phobia” and misogyny? (Operating here under the experience that most paramedics are male, BTW.)

I had an experience earlier in the year where I wound up as a not particularly mobile hospital patient, and as someone not much thinner than 245 I was fortunate not to have the kind of experience this woman did. (They had quite a few guys on their transport staff who could obviously handle people of all sizes, and none of them had the kind of bad attitude emanating from the paramedics in this post!) Did these guys not know there is equipment specifically designed to help with the lifting and transport of larger individuals, or what? (And there are also ways to accomplish it without special equipment, if you have some experience.) Geez…sad commentary on both sexism and sizeism.

]]> By: Les http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307710 Les Mon, 22 Oct 2007 00:29:12 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307710 This is structural violence. It's like a textbook example of structural violence. I don't see much of a moral difference between the paramedics stalling in this manner and them killing her outright. They should be brought up for manslaughter at the least. This is structural violence. It’s like a textbook example of structural violence. I don’t see much of a moral difference between the paramedics stalling in this manner and them killing her outright. They should be brought up for manslaughter at the least.

]]> By: tred http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307687 tred Sun, 21 Oct 2007 21:44:39 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307687 I don't quite believe the allegation. It has too much of a WMD feel about it. Are we supposed to automatically take this man's words as gospel? I just can't make that leap. I don’t quite believe the allegation. It has too much of a WMD feel about it. Are we supposed to automatically take this man’s words as gospel? I just can’t make that leap.

]]> By: Elaine Vigneault http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307673 Elaine Vigneault Sun, 21 Oct 2007 19:25:29 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307673 I simply can't understand the paramedics' point of view here at all. I have carried things and people (with help) that have been 245 pounds and though difficult, not impossible. I googled image searched "245 pounds" and found lots of pictures of football players. Are these paramedics seriously saying they couldn't rescue a football player? Jared, the Subway guy, was over 400 pounds at his heaviest. I've seen the pants and I think rescue workers could have saved him. It's unbelievable. Those paramedics ought to be in jail. I simply can’t understand the paramedics’ point of view here at all. I have carried things and people (with help) that have been 245 pounds and though difficult, not impossible.

I googled image searched “245 pounds” and found lots of pictures of football players. Are these paramedics seriously saying they couldn’t rescue a football player? Jared, the Subway guy, was over 400 pounds at his heaviest. I’ve seen the pants and I think rescue workers could have saved him.

It’s unbelievable. Those paramedics ought to be in jail.

]]> By: KateL http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307650 KateL Sun, 21 Oct 2007 12:59:09 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307650 I'm speechless. Honestly, 245 is only about 25-30 lbs heavier than I am now, and while I'm fat, I'm not so fat that no one could possibly move me. I'm just floored. How horrible :( I’m speechless. Honestly, 245 is only about 25-30 lbs heavier than I am now, and while I’m fat, I’m not so fat that no one could possibly move me.

I’m just floored. How horrible :(

]]> By: Lisa Harney http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307612 Lisa Harney Sun, 21 Oct 2007 02:31:56 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307612 I came upon this post after having been reminded of Tyra Hunter elsewhere, so, yeah. How often does this kind of thing happen? There's just plain no excuse, no justification, no reason for this to happen. Paramedics who do this should be charged to the fullest extent of the law. This is <em>malicious neglect</em>. It doesn't matter if she weighed 245 pounds or 345 pounds. It just doesn't matter. If you're in the business of saving lives, leave your primary school childishness at home. Leave your goddamned misogyny, ableism, sizeism, or whatever somewhere out of the line of sight and do your job. I came upon this post after having been reminded of Tyra Hunter elsewhere, so, yeah. How often does this kind of thing happen?

There’s just plain no excuse, no justification, no reason for this to happen. Paramedics who do this should be charged to the fullest extent of the law. This is malicious neglect.

It doesn’t matter if she weighed 245 pounds or 345 pounds. It just doesn’t matter. If you’re in the business of saving lives, leave your primary school childishness at home. Leave your goddamned misogyny, ableism, sizeism, or whatever somewhere out of the line of sight and do your job.

]]> By: Sailorman http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307608 Sailorman Sun, 21 Oct 2007 02:06:51 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307608 Ditto. i remember my EMT training, which covered (dispassionately, I'm pleased to say) the reality that some patients would weigh more than we could lift, or be too large to transport on a single stretcher, and that we should quickly call backup. But 245 pounds? makes even less sense. It's simply not that heavy! Why the fuck not lift her up? Any competent EMT faced with that could get her on a stretcher if they had to. And if not, well that's what radios are for, Christ. Ditto. i remember my EMT training, which covered (dispassionately, I’m pleased to say) the reality that some patients would weigh more than we could lift, or be too large to transport on a single stretcher, and that we should quickly call backup.

But 245 pounds? makes even less sense. It’s simply not that heavy! Why the fuck not lift her up? Any competent EMT faced with that could get her on a stretcher if they had to. And if not, well that’s what radios are for,

Christ.

]]> By: Jake http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307596 Jake Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:53:42 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307596 This is just such bullshit. I recently spent two weeks in a paramedic program here in Canada (before I decided that it wasn't for me and switched programs). It was made clear to us several times during the application and enrollment processes, and during the training, that by the time we graduated we would have to demonstrate the ability to lift a 210lb patient on a stretcher. It was also made clear to us that we were going to encounter a lot of patients who weigh a lot more than 210lbs. So what do you do if the person is too heavy for you and your partner to lift? You fucking call for backup and do whatever <i>in situ</i> treatment you can do until your lift assist arrives. I'm blown away by the behaviour of these paramedics This is just such bullshit. I recently spent two weeks in a paramedic program here in Canada (before I decided that it wasn’t for me and switched programs). It was made clear to us several times during the application and enrollment processes, and during the training, that by the time we graduated we would have to demonstrate the ability to lift a 210lb patient on a stretcher. It was also made clear to us that we were going to encounter a lot of patients who weigh a lot more than 210lbs. So what do you do if the person is too heavy for you and your partner to lift? You fucking call for backup and do whatever in situ treatment you can do until your lift assist arrives.

I’m blown away by the behaviour of these paramedics

]]> By: chris http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307591 chris Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:53:55 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307591 This kind of story makes me nauseous and gives me pause regarding humanity. After reading such things, it can take days or weeks for me to feel like people are mostly good again, which is my natural state. I can't help wondering though, if my regard for people doesn't ratchet down a notch each time, and it scares me to think that someday I won't recover from the "people mostly suck" mindset I'm left with. This kind of story makes me nauseous and gives me pause regarding humanity. After reading such things, it can take days or weeks for me to feel like people are mostly good again, which is my natural state. I can’t help wondering though, if my regard for people doesn’t ratchet down a notch each time, and it scares me to think that someday I won’t recover from the “people mostly suck” mindset I’m left with.

]]> By: Roberta http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307578 Roberta Sat, 20 Oct 2007 20:24:06 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307578 Check your math. In this case it's (disrespect + ridicule = death.) Yeah. In case we've forgotten that fat is a feminist issue. A 245 pound man is... what a lot of men weigh without being considered fat. Check your math. In this case it’s (disrespect + ridicule = death.)

Yeah. In case we’ve forgotten that fat is a feminist issue. A 245 pound man is… what a lot of men weigh without being considered fat.

]]> By: Dianne http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307574 Dianne Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:41:54 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307574 I must admit that my first thought was something like, "245 pounds? That's not even that heavy. What incompetents." My second thought was also "what incompetents": even if they couldn't, for whatever reason, get her out of the house and into an ambulance in a timely manner, there were numerous simple diagnostic and therapeutic procedures they could have undertaken that might have saved her. Basically, it sounds like these paramedics needed to be fired a long time ago. Too bad it took a patient dying to make that happen. Concerning weight and eating habits, it is my impression that people who are overweight may or may not be so because they eat too much*, but that people who are obese are nearly always so for medical or socioeconomic reasons. Saying "just eat less" is useless at best. *Then again, why should that be "too much"? Statistically, being "overweight" doesn't increase mortality so why not eat as much as you want? I must admit that my first thought was something like, “245 pounds? That’s not even that heavy. What incompetents.” My second thought was also “what incompetents”: even if they couldn’t, for whatever reason, get her out of the house and into an ambulance in a timely manner, there were numerous simple diagnostic and therapeutic procedures they could have undertaken that might have saved her. Basically, it sounds like these paramedics needed to be fired a long time ago. Too bad it took a patient dying to make that happen.

Concerning weight and eating habits, it is my impression that people who are overweight may or may not be so because they eat too much*, but that people who are obese are nearly always so for medical or socioeconomic reasons. Saying “just eat less” is useless at best.

*Then again, why should that be “too much”? Statistically, being “overweight” doesn’t increase mortality so why not eat as much as you want?

]]> By: Shihtzustaff http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307551 Shihtzustaff Sat, 20 Oct 2007 17:53:49 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307551 Mandolin - I am so with you!! I too have had a life long weight problem. I was forced on to diets as a child and I would gain weight. I remember seeing a gynecologist who looked at me and said you have PCOS and you probably don't eat that much. I cried. It was such a relief. Mandolin - I am so with you!! I too have had a life long weight problem. I was forced on to diets as a child and I would gain weight. I remember seeing a gynecologist who looked at me and said you have PCOS and you probably don’t eat that much. I cried. It was such a relief.

]]> By: Mandolin http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307548 Mandolin Sat, 20 Oct 2007 17:38:05 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307548 "whereas if she'd been fat because she ate a lot, that would have been Different." Yeah, when I found out that my lifelong weight problems are due to a metabolic problem, I was like, "Maybe I should get business cards to document that I should get out of discrimination free." :-P “whereas if she’d been fat because she ate a lot, that would have been Different.”

Yeah, when I found out that my lifelong weight problems are due to a metabolic problem, I was like, “Maybe I should get business cards to document that I should get out of discrimination free.” :-P

]]> By: Is it really getting worse (and other items from the blogosphere)? « Shihtzustaff’s Blog http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307546 Is it really getting worse (and other items from the blogosphere)? « Shihtzustaff’s Blog Sat, 20 Oct 2007 17:35:01 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307546 [...] seems that being fat is one area where many people feel that it is ok to discriminate. A woman in Britain, who weighed 245 pounds died because the paramedics were too busy cracking fat jokes to actually get [...] [...] seems that being fat is one area where many people feel that it is ok to discriminate. A woman in Britain, who weighed 245 pounds died because the paramedics were too busy cracking fat jokes to actually get [...]

]]> By: mythago http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307543 mythago Sat, 20 Oct 2007 17:23:35 +0000 http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2007/10/19/paramedics-allow-woman-to-die-because-of-her-weight/#comment-307543 Oh, I don't think we'll be getting blame for the woman. We'll be getting comments about how it's bad that they left <i>this</i> fat woman to die, because it wasn't her fault she was fat--the steroids, you know--whereas if she'd been fat because she ate a lot, that would have been Different. Oh, I don’t think we’ll be getting blame for the woman. We’ll be getting comments about how it’s bad that they left this fat woman to die, because it wasn’t her fault she was fat–the steroids, you know–whereas if she’d been fat because she ate a lot, that would have been Different.

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