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	<title>Comments on: Open Thread</title>
	<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/</link>
	<description>Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 13:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1</generator>
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		<title>By: nobody.really</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319695</link>
		<dc:creator>nobody.really</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 04:54:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319695</guid>
		<description>Ok, everybody stay calm.  There's no reason to panic.

You know what we've come for.  So just hand over the photos of Sydney and Maddox.  That's all.  Nice and easy, see?  

Hm?  Don't insult my intelligence.  

Oh, very well; I'm a reasonable man.  We'll give you 'til next Monday.  But don't try my patience, or else I'll have to, to, OH, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, have some compassion, will you?  Mondays are tough enough already.  And by next Monday I'll have burned through all my Girl Scout cookies.  A moment's respite, that 's all I ask!  Surely Maddox has had some heartwarming, photogentic encounter with a kitten or goldfish or someother damn thing, while Sydney beamed beatifically, right?  So, didja forget to recharge the camera batteries?   Or does cuteness consume extra bandwidth?  Or what?  

I mean, WHAT?!?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, everybody stay calm.  There&#8217;s no reason to panic.</p>
<p>You know what we&#8217;ve come for.  So just hand over the photos of Sydney and Maddox.  That&#8217;s all.  Nice and easy, see?  </p>
<p>Hm?  Don&#8217;t insult my intelligence.  </p>
<p>Oh, very well; I&#8217;m a reasonable man.  We&#8217;ll give you &#8217;til next Monday.  But don&#8217;t try my patience, or else I&#8217;ll have to, to, OH, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, have some compassion, will you?  Mondays are tough enough already.  And by next Monday I&#8217;ll have burned through all my Girl Scout cookies.  A moment&#8217;s respite, that &#8217;s all I ask!  Surely Maddox has had some heartwarming, photogentic encounter with a kitten or goldfish or someother damn thing, while Sydney beamed beatifically, right?  So, didja forget to recharge the camera batteries?   Or does cuteness consume extra bandwidth?  Or what?  </p>
<p>I mean, WHAT?!?</p>
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		<title>By: Radfem</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319623</link>
		<dc:creator>Radfem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 20:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319623</guid>
		<description>I've been blogging on the trial of the NYPD detectives who shot and killed Sean Bell. Some interesting testimony emerging there especially by the supervising lieutenant. And blogging on a local fatal shooting by officers but just got started there. 

I'm also researching the situation in Portland, Oregon with what's been going on since Eileen Luna-Firebaugh released her report on the Independent Police Review. Portland's city politics seem very interesting. I'm contrasting it with a similar situation in my city which also had a report released on its civilian oversight mechanism. So I'll be blogging on how they compare and contrast, which I've done a bit earlier already. It's very interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been blogging on the trial of the NYPD detectives who shot and killed Sean Bell. Some interesting testimony emerging there especially by the supervising lieutenant. And blogging on a local fatal shooting by officers but just got started there. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m also researching the situation in Portland, Oregon with what&#8217;s been going on since Eileen Luna-Firebaugh released her report on the Independent Police Review. Portland&#8217;s city politics seem very interesting. I&#8217;m contrasting it with a similar situation in my city which also had a report released on its civilian oversight mechanism. So I&#8217;ll be blogging on how they compare and contrast, which I&#8217;ve done a bit earlier already. It&#8217;s very interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake Squid</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319554</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake Squid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 03:45:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319554</guid>
		<description>Yes.  A single example.  Nobody has shown you any other examples on this blog.  You are correct, sir.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes.  A single example.  Nobody has shown you any other examples on this blog.  You are correct, sir.</p>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319551</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319551</guid>
		<description>Jake, you know how I'd like to see that issue resolved?

Let the Hebrew team win out to the point of the Sabbath game.  Then let their opponent also not show for the game out of respect for their opponents' religious practices.  Maybe the coaches of or someone in the administration of the other schools will show some character, and some willingness to teach their children (and their parents in some cases, I fear) what true sportsmanship means.

To your point; one example to the contrary does not prove that Christianity is not under fire in this country.  I don't hold that it is; I simply hold that your logic is deficient.

Me - when people tell me "Happy Holidays", I say "Merry Christmas" back to them and consider the matter closed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jake, you know how I&#8217;d like to see that issue resolved?</p>
<p>Let the Hebrew team win out to the point of the Sabbath game.  Then let their opponent also not show for the game out of respect for their opponents&#8217; religious practices.  Maybe the coaches of or someone in the administration of the other schools will show some character, and some willingness to teach their children (and their parents in some cases, I fear) what true sportsmanship means.</p>
<p>To your point; one example to the contrary does not prove that Christianity is not under fire in this country.  I don&#8217;t hold that it is; I simply hold that your logic is deficient.</p>
<p>Me - when people tell me &#8220;Happy Holidays&#8221;, I say &#8220;Merry Christmas&#8221; back to them and consider the matter closed.</p>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319550</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319550</guid>
		<description>Hm.  I've seen dribs and drabs of this Farahkhan/Obama story.  If Obama is being asked to publicly reject Farahkhan purely on the basis that both are black and high-profile, it's bogus and may well be racist.  OTOH, if Farahkhan publicly pledged his support for Obama, it's entirely reasonable to ask Obama if he accepts such support (given Farrahkhan's high profile and whacknut views).  And, yes, if some high-profile minister who, say, wants to hunt down and shoot abortion providers (hyperbole!) or has some other extremist views pledges his eternal fealty to McCain's campaign, it would be quite reasonable to ask McCain the same question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hm.  I&#8217;ve seen dribs and drabs of this Farahkhan/Obama story.  If Obama is being asked to publicly reject Farahkhan purely on the basis that both are black and high-profile, it&#8217;s bogus and may well be racist.  OTOH, if Farahkhan publicly pledged his support for Obama, it&#8217;s entirely reasonable to ask Obama if he accepts such support (given Farrahkhan&#8217;s high profile and whacknut views).  And, yes, if some high-profile minister who, say, wants to hunt down and shoot abortion providers (hyperbole!) or has some other extremist views pledges his eternal fealty to McCain&#8217;s campaign, it would be quite reasonable to ask McCain the same question.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake Squid</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319542</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake Squid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 22:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319542</guid>
		<description>This is interesting:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/more/02/27/sabbath.colorado.ap/index.html?cnn=yes

Strange how no accommodation can be made for a non-Christian religion so often.  Please tell me again how Christians are under assault in this country.

But, of course, we know that this is caused only by individuals and there is no such thing as systemic discrimination.

We also know that there is no more anti-semitism in the US.  All Jews can feel safe in all aspects of their lives in the US.  

As I've been told, in both cases, in comments here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is interesting:<br />
<a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/more/02/27/sabbath.colorado.ap/index.html?cnn=yes" rel="nofollow">http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/more/02/27/sabbath.colorado.ap/index.html?cnn=yes</a></p>
<p>Strange how no accommodation can be made for a non-Christian religion so often.  Please tell me again how Christians are under assault in this country.</p>
<p>But, of course, we know that this is caused only by individuals and there is no such thing as systemic discrimination.</p>
<p>We also know that there is no more anti-semitism in the US.  All Jews can feel safe in all aspects of their lives in the US.  </p>
<p>As I&#8217;ve been told, in both cases, in comments here.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319540</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 21:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319540</guid>
		<description>No, I don't think you're racist or stupid, the gun is aimed at the Russert-type journalists and Hannity-style public intellectuals (cough) who make an issue of it. It's a squirt gun, too, so I'm not sure how much damage it will do. :-)

I'd say the Hagee minister-in-question holds views that most Americans, for all of our faults, would consider pretty extreme, no matter how many Left Behind books are sold. To Obama's credit, he's been on record denouncing Farrakhan's anti-semitism, even before he was questioned on it. Shouldn't we expect the same from McCain regarding Hagee's homophobia? Since McCain is openly embracing this guy, he should be made to clarify whether or not he buys into the End Times justification for war with Iran, or the Divine Punishment via hurricane dealt upon New Orleans for allowing a Gay Pride parade.

I can understand asking Obama about it - once! But after he's pooh-poohed Farrakhan, pressing him on it raises questions about the motives of the journalist. If McCain had responded to the Hagee endorsement with the same level of dismissal Obama treated Farrakhan, then by all means, leave him alone. But he welcomed the endorsement, so follow up questions are reasonable - indeed, required.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re racist or stupid, the gun is aimed at the Russert-type journalists and Hannity-style public intellectuals (cough) who make an issue of it. It&#8217;s a squirt gun, too, so I&#8217;m not sure how much damage it will do. :-)</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say the Hagee minister-in-question holds views that most Americans, for all of our faults, would consider pretty extreme, no matter how many Left Behind books are sold. To Obama&#8217;s credit, he&#8217;s been on record denouncing Farrakhan&#8217;s anti-semitism, even before he was questioned on it. Shouldn&#8217;t we expect the same from McCain regarding Hagee&#8217;s homophobia? Since McCain is openly embracing this guy, he should be made to clarify whether or not he buys into the End Times justification for war with Iran, or the Divine Punishment via hurricane dealt upon New Orleans for allowing a Gay Pride parade.</p>
<p>I can understand asking Obama about it - once! But after he&#8217;s pooh-poohed Farrakhan, pressing him on it raises questions about the motives of the journalist. If McCain had responded to the Hagee endorsement with the same level of dismissal Obama treated Farrakhan, then by all means, leave him alone. But he welcomed the endorsement, so follow up questions are reasonable - indeed, required.</p>
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		<title>By: Sailorman</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319534</link>
		<dc:creator>Sailorman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 20:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319534</guid>
		<description>If that's aimed at me (unclear whether your 'racist and stupid" gun in pointed) you should know that I detest those people, too!  Religion sucks equally.

But in terms of the analysis, I wonder if (sadly) this is correct:
&lt;blockquote&gt;...white evangelical Christians are, by definition, entitled to great respect no matter how &lt;b&gt;radical, extreme and hateful&lt;/b&gt; their professed views are.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Actually, I think the reason that white evangelical nutsos are granted respect is because their views are &lt;i&gt;hateful&lt;/i&gt;, but (as per the rest of the country) thy are unfortunately NOT particularly radical, or extreme.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If that&#8217;s aimed at me (unclear whether your &#8216;racist and stupid&#8221; gun in pointed) you should know that I detest those people, too!  Religion sucks equally.</p>
<p>But in terms of the analysis, I wonder if (sadly) this is correct:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230;white evangelical Christians are, by definition, entitled to great respect no matter how <b>radical, extreme and hateful</b> their professed views are.</p></blockquote>
<p>Actually, I think the reason that white evangelical nutsos are granted respect is because their views are <i>hateful</i>, but (as per the rest of the country) thy are unfortunately NOT particularly radical, or extreme.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319533</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319533</guid>
		<description>To return to the question of why pressing Obama on the Farrakhan endorsement is racist and stupid, read &lt;a href="http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/02/28/hagee/index.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Glenn Greenwald's excellent post&lt;/a&gt; on the subject. Here's a snippet:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Watching the media's treatment of Farrakhan and Hagee, is it possible to imagine a more transparent, and grotesque, double standard? In the framework of the Russert-led establishment press, white evangelical Christians are, by definition, entitled to great respect no matter how radical, extreme and hateful their professed views are. These are, after all, religious Christians -- People of Faith -- and, as such, it is wrong, even bigoted, to suggest that they should be repudiated. There is nothing ever radical, hateful or dangerous about the views of white evangelical Christians like Hagee.

Thus, white evangelical Ministers are free to advocate American wars based on Biblical mandates, rant hatefully against Islam, and argue that natural disasters occur because God hates gay people. They are still fit for good company, an important and cherished part of our mainstream American political system. The entire GOP establishment is permitted actively to lavish them with praise and court their support without the slightest backlash or controversy. Both George Bush and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert sent formal greetings to the 2006 gathering of Hagee's group.

By contrast, black Muslim ministers like Farrakhan, or even black Christian ministers like Rev. Jeremiah Wright, are held with deep suspicion, even contempt. McCain is free to hug and praise the Rev. Hagees of the world, but Obama is required to prove over and over and over and over that he does not share the more extreme views of black Ministers. &lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To return to the question of why pressing Obama on the Farrakhan endorsement is racist and stupid, read <a href="http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/02/28/hagee/index.html" rel="nofollow">Glenn Greenwald&#8217;s excellent post</a> on the subject. Here&#8217;s a snippet:</p>
<blockquote><p>Watching the media&#8217;s treatment of Farrakhan and Hagee, is it possible to imagine a more transparent, and grotesque, double standard? In the framework of the Russert-led establishment press, white evangelical Christians are, by definition, entitled to great respect no matter how radical, extreme and hateful their professed views are. These are, after all, religious Christians &#8212; People of Faith &#8212; and, as such, it is wrong, even bigoted, to suggest that they should be repudiated. There is nothing ever radical, hateful or dangerous about the views of white evangelical Christians like Hagee.</p>
<p>Thus, white evangelical Ministers are free to advocate American wars based on Biblical mandates, rant hatefully against Islam, and argue that natural disasters occur because God hates gay people. They are still fit for good company, an important and cherished part of our mainstream American political system. The entire GOP establishment is permitted actively to lavish them with praise and court their support without the slightest backlash or controversy. Both George Bush and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert sent formal greetings to the 2006 gathering of Hagee&#8217;s group.</p>
<p>By contrast, black Muslim ministers like Farrakhan, or even black Christian ministers like Rev. Jeremiah Wright, are held with deep suspicion, even contempt. McCain is free to hug and praise the Rev. Hagees of the world, but Obama is required to prove over and over and over and over that he does not share the more extreme views of black Ministers. </p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Sailorman</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319532</link>
		<dc:creator>Sailorman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319532</guid>
		<description>Probably the same department that was in charge of Nixon's tape recorder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Probably the same department that was in charge of Nixon&#8217;s tape recorder.</p>
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		<title>By: Radfem</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319531</link>
		<dc:creator>Radfem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:07:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319531</guid>
		<description>Vice President Dick Cheney is &lt;a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080227/ap_on_go_pr_wh/white_house_e_mail" rel="nofollow"&gt;missing an entire week of email from 2003&lt;/a&gt; which became known when a grand jury issued a subpoena. Apparently, there are problems with the email system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vice President Dick Cheney is <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080227/ap_on_go_pr_wh/white_house_e_mail" rel="nofollow">missing an entire week of email from 2003</a> which became known when a grand jury issued a subpoena. Apparently, there are problems with the email system.</p>
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		<title>By: ADS</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319528</link>
		<dc:creator>ADS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 18:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319528</guid>
		<description>And again with the "not a mindreader." She can't state definitively that no one on her staff did it, because SHE HAS NO ABILITY TO READ HER STAFF'S MINDS. She CAN say definitively that she had nothing to do with it, and that if she does find that someone on her staff did do it, she will fire them, but people who work for politicians do sometimes do things on their own. Again, I'm not sure what it is you would want her to say. "I can say for a fact that no one on my campaign staff sent this picture to Drudge?" How can anyone human being state for a fact that someone else didn't do something, unless they're physically in their presence 24 hours a day?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And again with the &#8220;not a mindreader.&#8221; She can&#8217;t state definitively that no one on her staff did it, because SHE HAS NO ABILITY TO READ HER STAFF&#8217;S MINDS. She CAN say definitively that she had nothing to do with it, and that if she does find that someone on her staff did do it, she will fire them, but people who work for politicians do sometimes do things on their own. Again, I&#8217;m not sure what it is you would want her to say. &#8220;I can say for a fact that no one on my campaign staff sent this picture to Drudge?&#8221; How can anyone human being state for a fact that someone else didn&#8217;t do something, unless they&#8217;re physically in their presence 24 hours a day?</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319523</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:32:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319523</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;And if Drudge has proof, where is it?&lt;/i&gt;

Presumably he is protecting his source's job.

&lt;i&gt;I think her statement that she will fire anyone on her staff who was involved in it, if there is such a person, was a pretty powerful condemnation.&lt;/i&gt;

It is also incompatible with the denial. It's called arguing in the alternative; "We didn't do this. If we did do this, we'll fire whoever did it. But we didn't do it."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>And if Drudge has proof, where is it?</i></p>
<p>Presumably he is protecting his source&#8217;s job.</p>
<p><i>I think her statement that she will fire anyone on her staff who was involved in it, if there is such a person, was a pretty powerful condemnation.</i></p>
<p>It is also incompatible with the denial. It&#8217;s called arguing in the alternative; &#8220;We didn&#8217;t do this. If we did do this, we&#8217;ll fire whoever did it. But we didn&#8217;t do it.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: ADS</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319520</link>
		<dc:creator>ADS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 14:48:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319520</guid>
		<description>Yes, Robert, I do have a brain - and my brain tells me that Hillary Clinton is not a mindreader. It also tells me that if she did say "No one on my staff sent that picture" and then it turned out that some seventeen-year-old in a campaign office in Cleveland DID indeed send that picture, you'd be all over her for being a liar. I think her statement that she will fire anyone on her staff who was involved in it, if there is such a person, was a pretty powerful condemnation. And if Drudge has proof, where is it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Robert, I do have a brain - and my brain tells me that Hillary Clinton is not a mindreader. It also tells me that if she did say &#8220;No one on my staff sent that picture&#8221; and then it turned out that some seventeen-year-old in a campaign office in Cleveland DID indeed send that picture, you&#8217;d be all over her for being a liar. I think her statement that she will fire anyone on her staff who was involved in it, if there is such a person, was a pretty powerful condemnation. And if Drudge has proof, where is it?</p>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319519</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 14:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319519</guid>
		<description>Actually, Robert, I translate "I am not aware of ..." as "I don't know, and I don't want to know, I have no intention of trying to find out and nobody on my staff better try to look into this or tell me."  It's called "plausible deniability".

I've just seen a thread on Free Republic that has brought up someone who's asserting that Sen. Obama has dual nationality - American and Kenyan - and that he's never renounced his Kenyan nationality.  I'd be interested to know just what the story is.  Apparently it comes though his father, and both the U.S. and Kenya recognize dual nationality.  It's not being alleged that this is a legal obstacle to his eligibility for holding the Presidency.  It does present the question of whether or not it's a desirable thing that an American President be a dual national.

Meanwhile; Tony Rezko will be going to trial soon for extorting and collecting money from various businessmen, etc., to donate to political campaigns.  The Governor of Illinois is one of those politicians.  He denies knowing about it.  Ex-Governor George Ryan took the same tack when confronted with this issue a couple of years ago.  The denial turned out to be a lie.  He's now in the same jail that ex-Governor Walker served time in, and Walker made the rounds of the media assuring everyone that the place is no country club.  Geez, I think half the people who have served as Governor since I've been living here have been indicted and jailed.

Should Tony Rezko get convicted (you can't assume it, but I'd sure as hell bet on it), he'll start rolling on the politicians he contributed money to.  Those politicians would include Obama, who Rezko has been supporting ever since Obama started out in the Illinois State Senate.  This could get &lt;b&gt;real&lt;/b&gt; interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Robert, I translate &#8220;I am not aware of &#8230;&#8221; as &#8220;I don&#8217;t know, and I don&#8217;t want to know, I have no intention of trying to find out and nobody on my staff better try to look into this or tell me.&#8221;  It&#8217;s called &#8220;plausible deniability&#8221;.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve just seen a thread on Free Republic that has brought up someone who&#8217;s asserting that Sen. Obama has dual nationality - American and Kenyan - and that he&#8217;s never renounced his Kenyan nationality.  I&#8217;d be interested to know just what the story is.  Apparently it comes though his father, and both the U.S. and Kenya recognize dual nationality.  It&#8217;s not being alleged that this is a legal obstacle to his eligibility for holding the Presidency.  It does present the question of whether or not it&#8217;s a desirable thing that an American President be a dual national.</p>
<p>Meanwhile; Tony Rezko will be going to trial soon for extorting and collecting money from various businessmen, etc., to donate to political campaigns.  The Governor of Illinois is one of those politicians.  He denies knowing about it.  Ex-Governor George Ryan took the same tack when confronted with this issue a couple of years ago.  The denial turned out to be a lie.  He&#8217;s now in the same jail that ex-Governor Walker served time in, and Walker made the rounds of the media assuring everyone that the place is no country club.  Geez, I think half the people who have served as Governor since I&#8217;ve been living here have been indicted and jailed.</p>
<p>Should Tony Rezko get convicted (you can&#8217;t assume it, but I&#8217;d sure as hell bet on it), he&#8217;ll start rolling on the politicians he contributed money to.  Those politicians would include Obama, who Rezko has been supporting ever since Obama started out in the Illinois State Senate.  This could get <b>real</b> interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Lea</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319513</link>
		<dc:creator>Lea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319513</guid>
		<description>Similar smoking laws were passed in my country. As a sensitive asthmatic with frequent breathing difficulty, I do appreciate being able to sit &lt;i&gt;inside&lt;/i&gt; when it's cold, even living in a city populated with tons of compulsive smokers. As a queer woman, I have to mourn the fact that the only lesbian bar in the country closed down a couple of months ago due to debt from smoking-related fines. 

One of my best friends is a smoker, and she welcomes the law, because she's very conscious of the idea that her habit is harmful to people's environment. My neighbor and landlord, also a smoker, is staunchly opposed, for the usual reason of it interfering with his smoking/drinking evening enjoyment. My boss is in the process of quitting, and the smell of tobacco now makes him nauseous. 

I know that I cannot say, "But I like to be able to breathe," because it sounds demagogic. Most people don't understand that I mean it literally, not as hyperbole. 

In other news, since self-linking is encouraged, &lt;a href="http://lea-hazel.livejournal.com/246800.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;I don't wonder why my country's government has failed to acknowledge the Kosovar declaration of independence&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Similar smoking laws were passed in my country. As a sensitive asthmatic with frequent breathing difficulty, I do appreciate being able to sit <i>inside</i> when it&#8217;s cold, even living in a city populated with tons of compulsive smokers. As a queer woman, I have to mourn the fact that the only lesbian bar in the country closed down a couple of months ago due to debt from smoking-related fines. </p>
<p>One of my best friends is a smoker, and she welcomes the law, because she&#8217;s very conscious of the idea that her habit is harmful to people&#8217;s environment. My neighbor and landlord, also a smoker, is staunchly opposed, for the usual reason of it interfering with his smoking/drinking evening enjoyment. My boss is in the process of quitting, and the smell of tobacco now makes him nauseous. </p>
<p>I know that I cannot say, &#8220;But I like to be able to breathe,&#8221; because it sounds demagogic. Most people don&#8217;t understand that I mean it literally, not as hyperbole. </p>
<p>In other news, since self-linking is encouraged, <a href="http://lea-hazel.livejournal.com/246800.html" rel="nofollow">I don&#8217;t wonder why my country&#8217;s government has failed to acknowledge the Kosovar declaration of independence</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Bjartmarr</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319491</link>
		<dc:creator>Bjartmarr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 03:23:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319491</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
The corner dive bars will always have a problem: they existed solely for people to drink and smoke as cheaply as possible.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If my (rather extensive) experience is any guide, the corner dive bars won't have a problem at all: patrons will continue to smoke regardless of whether or not it's illegal. There are too many dive bars, and too few police officers, to achieve meaningful enforcement in neighborhood places where everybody knows everybody else. (Stepped-up enforcement coupled with significant penalties for the owners of the bars could change this, but I don't really see that happening.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
The corner dive bars will always have a problem: they existed solely for people to drink and smoke as cheaply as possible.
</p></blockquote>
<p>If my (rather extensive) experience is any guide, the corner dive bars won&#8217;t have a problem at all: patrons will continue to smoke regardless of whether or not it&#8217;s illegal. There are too many dive bars, and too few police officers, to achieve meaningful enforcement in neighborhood places where everybody knows everybody else. (Stepped-up enforcement coupled with significant penalties for the owners of the bars could change this, but I don&#8217;t really see that happening.)</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319485</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 23:27:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319485</guid>
		<description>Dianne: I don't think it would be much of an issue were there not a persistent "Manchurian Muslim" whisper campaign against Obama, a tendency among ignorant people to treat all turban-esque forms of head dress as indicating "Muslim" (for example: after 9/11, an American Sikh was killed by an American idiot seeking vengeance), and according to Drudge, the photo was passed on in an email complaining that Clinton would have been criticized had she been similarly dressed in "Muslim" clothing. (Please note irony quotes.)

I don't think Drudge is to be believed on his source, but I'll credit him for including pictures of Clinton in a hijab and Bush in a jacket reflecting his host country's tradition (which I forget what it's called.)

But you're right, it would be asinine to criticize Obama for honoring his Kenyan roots by donning traditional forms of dress. It's like mocking someone of Scottish ancestry for wearing a kilt. But that didn't stop Lou Dobbs from saying Obama looked ridiculous the other day. Good ole Lou. :-P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dianne: I don&#8217;t think it would be much of an issue were there not a persistent &#8220;Manchurian Muslim&#8221; whisper campaign against Obama, a tendency among ignorant people to treat all turban-esque forms of head dress as indicating &#8220;Muslim&#8221; (for example: after 9/11, an American Sikh was killed by an American idiot seeking vengeance), and according to Drudge, the photo was passed on in an email complaining that Clinton would have been criticized had she been similarly dressed in &#8220;Muslim&#8221; clothing. (Please note irony quotes.)</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think Drudge is to be believed on his source, but I&#8217;ll credit him for including pictures of Clinton in a hijab and Bush in a jacket reflecting his host country&#8217;s tradition (which I forget what it&#8217;s called.)</p>
<p>But you&#8217;re right, it would be asinine to criticize Obama for honoring his Kenyan roots by donning traditional forms of dress. It&#8217;s like mocking someone of Scottish ancestry for wearing a kilt. But that didn&#8217;t stop Lou Dobbs from saying Obama looked ridiculous the other day. Good ole Lou. :-P</p>
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		<title>By: Dianne</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319483</link>
		<dc:creator>Dianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 22:57:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319483</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;a photo of Obama wearing African clothing&lt;/i&gt;

Excuse the dumb question, but Clinton and Drudge aside, why is a photo of Obama wearing African clothing an issue? I haven't seen the photo in question, but I think traditional African clothing would probably look good on Obama. And is there anyone out there who hasn't been living under a rock or even who has, that doesn't realize that some of Obama's ancestors came to the Americas straight from Africa without a stopover in Europe?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>a photo of Obama wearing African clothing</i></p>
<p>Excuse the dumb question, but Clinton and Drudge aside, why is a photo of Obama wearing African clothing an issue? I haven&#8217;t seen the photo in question, but I think traditional African clothing would probably look good on Obama. And is there anyone out there who hasn&#8217;t been living under a rock or even who has, that doesn&#8217;t realize that some of Obama&#8217;s ancestors came to the Americas straight from Africa without a stopover in Europe?</p>
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		<title>By: Sheelzebub</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319481</link>
		<dc:creator>Sheelzebub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 22:41:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/02/26/open-thread-5/#comment-319481</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I understand the “nanny state” issues, but I really don’t see that here. All I see are a lot of poor women who have the choice to either endanger their lives or quit their jobs, and I don’t really see that as much of a choice.&lt;/i&gt;

As a customer in an place that's banned smoking in public establishments, I  appreciate being able to walk in somewhere, NOT have to breath in this crap, NOT have the smell stick to my clothes (and leather jacket) and NOT have the smell linger in my hair.  Before these laws were passed and I complained, I was told that I shouldn't go to these places (all which allowed smoking).  I resented the hell out of that.  I mean, what?  People who were sensitive to smoke, who maybe didn't want to get their just dry-cleaned workclothes stunk up, who wanted to breath clean air, have no rights?  It won't kill people to smoke elsewhere. 

Seriously? I shouldn't have to suffer from someone else's habit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I understand the “nanny state” issues, but I really don’t see that here. All I see are a lot of poor women who have the choice to either endanger their lives or quit their jobs, and I don’t really see that as much of a choice.</i></p>
<p>As a customer in an place that&#8217;s banned smoking in public establishments, I  appreciate being able to walk in somewhere, NOT have to breath in this crap, NOT have the smell stick to my clothes (and leather jacket) and NOT have the smell linger in my hair.  Before these laws were passed and I complained, I was told that I shouldn&#8217;t go to these places (all which allowed smoking).  I resented the hell out of that.  I mean, what?  People who were sensitive to smoke, who maybe didn&#8217;t want to get their just dry-cleaned workclothes stunk up, who wanted to breath clean air, have no rights?  It won&#8217;t kill people to smoke elsewhere. </p>
<p>Seriously? I shouldn&#8217;t have to suffer from someone else&#8217;s habit.</p>
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