There’s a constant between the Christian community and the community at large though, many do believe in the “men should be men” and “women should be women”, even if in their mind that includes a wider expression allowance than religious circles will talk about.

A guy with substantially longer hair than the norm (if the norm is 1-2, maybe 3 inch, someone with 6+ inch) will get flack from it, probably not from everyone, but definitely from some (maybe teachers, bosses, co-workers, I know I did), boys and girls, who somehow, feel robbed of their identity when someone adopts a style that is closer or too far (too different) to theirs than the one they feel the individual should have (ie too girly for a guy).The corporate world isn’t any better, requiring shorter hair as a matter of code (dress code). Then there are prisons, and the army, where you almost need an act of God to prove that you should have the right to keep your hair, unless you’re female. It isn’t the fault of women that the double standard exists, I’m well aware of that, so I’m not blaming women, just looking at the sad state of affair and sighing.

As Dave said, skirts, or kilt wearers, if they’re not in Scotland, will usually have a person or two at least coming forward and commenting. If they’re transgender or transsexual, and people can tell, then the danger becomes harsher, it’s no more about insults, possible threats, it’s about being beaten up and possibly killed.

There are two possible ways to see why people (mostly men) would have such a reaction. Either they view you as a traitor to manhood, or they view you as having benefits (or trying to get benefits) they couldn’t possibly have. Many men will shower women with gifts, court them, and to do the same to a man, as a guy interested in women, means someone not-worthy is trying to benefit from their courtship or their generosity (even if they do nothing to actively get it, it’s a perceived threat).

I think it was Daran who said (not here) there was another hypothesis, the guy or man has given up on the feminine parts of his personality as conditioning from childhood, and views the non-conforming person as somehow not as advanced as them (they didn’t get rid of that part), and a part of acceptable male behavior is to drill those inferior, or perceived as inferior, until they learn (or die). This doesn’t mean every guy will beat another to death, far from it, but it’s condoned behavior to police other boys.

Women may view a trans woman, or sometimes a crossdresser, as competing with them (in looks, and in desire for male attention, especially in venues established towards courtship - parties, bars, clubs). It’s an easy target to ‘take down’ if they so wish, because the trans woman will have little power to retaliate or assert herself as being as valuable as them. I’m not saying most women would do it, but even if only 1% did, that’s enough for it to happen once every time you go out. A woman could simply assert herself as more real, deride characteristics she perceives (but are not necessarily incongruent), and people in general have a confirmation bias when it comes to trans people - just read the comments on Harisu*’s youtube video to see what I mean.

*Harisu is a post-op trans woman born in Korea, who now resides in Japan. She’s a singer, model and actress and looks very much like what you’d expect a female model to look like, maybe more curvy.

My comment may seem to go on a tangent, but it concerns acceptable gendered behavior, and how people react to exceptions (and hence how hard it is to live as one of those exceptions or to even deviate slightly from the norm).

Hmm… if people have a problem with your long hair — or kilts, for that matter — I’d guess that you lived in a particularly staid and backwards area… as do I. *insert self-serving lament about the dearth of long-haired men at school here* You’re right, dave, I couldn’t possibly fully understand the hell that men (or women, for that matter) who don’t fit into their socially prescribed gender roles go through. I can only guess, and I’m guessing that it’s pretty bad. Just a few seconds ago, I was going to say that your “chip” is probably warranted and forged through years of experience.

However, I can say that women aren’t as “free” as they seem when it comes to clothing choices, although they’re probably freer than men. I’ve studied women’s fashions for a while now, and there are many, many gender boundaries that can’t be crossed without garnering censure, they just aren’t as clear cut. I’ve said this before here, that there’s a difference between a tomboy and a butch woman… and there’s a difference between a butch woman and a transman. The former is what you’re probably referencing… I’ve been (still am in spirit) the former, and as a result, I know that it’s not percieved as a substantial threat to the status quo/gender paradigm… the latter two, however most certainly are, and reactions are much more extreme. I imagine if you were to talk with women from the latter two categories, you would see quite a few parallels between their experiences and your own. Contrary to popular belief, feminists aren’t just fighting for women against men, we’re fighting against a system of gender that oppresses both and is perpetuated by both — perhaps not in the same ways and in equal measure (there’s a lot of healthy, vigorous discussion about all of that) — but both, all the same. However, I’m not going to lie to you, dave, it isn’t all sweetness and light. As Amp highlights in his “An Easy Mistake to Make” cartoon, feminists aren’t totally free from anti-trans sentiment either.

Also, I joined Ampersand in rejecting transphobic and sexist criticism of Ann Coulter. I don’t think the Left (or anyone else, really, but especially progressives) should resort to critical rhetoric that implies criticism of innocent people who deserve our love and support.

*headslap*

Wow. Here’s where I get really impolite:

Q: How many feminists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

A: That’s not funny.

After seeing both Ampersand and Dave make the same mistake (albeit in Dave’s case it occurred within a flurry of paranoia), I have to say that it appears this joke applies to MRAs as well.

Hint: the bits about how men can only wear a dress when being manly about it and laughing about it were meant as a joke, mocking the fact. Not a celebration of it. We’re on your side on that issue. Kinda.

Take a pill, okay?

Oh, and have fun with the dress thing. Seriously, I wish I were brave enough to act out my own desires like that. Too bad about the chip on your shoulder, though.

And as for the survey: when my mom died 5 years ago (has it been so long?) - otherwise, never… but I tend to think it’s just the way I’m wired… I do tend to make loud displays of frustration when the shiat hits the fan at work, so I can’t really judge people for the head-leaking thing. As long as you keep your wits together and shake it off, who cares how you display emotion?

I heard of a guy making a bet he would keep surgically-added-breasts for a year, if he won he’d get 100,000$. I think he won his bet, and decided to keep them afterwards. He got ridiculed a bit for the nature of the bet, but not for his gambling-ways, cause he’d never back down. He apparently kept them out of liking them.

I’d like to answer the survey, but honestly, I can’t remember the last time I cried in public.

Uh, no… sorry… the least you could do is dig up a nationwide poll. And that would just be proof of American women’s sentiments. Many men from other nations wear garments that we would roughly describe as “dresses” here in America or unisex clothing. Furthermore, in many contexts, the donning of “female” clothing by men is permitted and even encouraged — in the context of traditional Japanese kabuki theater and Chinese opera, for instance. So whether you mean “all of the world’s women” or “all American women”, you’re probably wrong, and your assertion is completely unfounded.

“Or Ann Coulter, for that matter, calling men who get hairstyles that she apparently considers “too pretty” or gender-inappropriate, “faggots”, as she called Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards”

You obviously haven’t been spending too much time in the leftist blogosphere. People wailed on her as a direct result of that comment, and rightly so.

Unscientific survey; gentlemen, when was the last time you cried in public?

Got to spend my birthday taking my cat to the vet for the final farewell. As birthday ideas go, I can’t recommend it. The vet people sent me a VERY nice card; I think they were worried about me.

Death sucks. But it is better than some alternatives.

Then go with God and do so. It is none of my business or concern.

I don’t wear dresses, so it is funny for me to put myself in situations where I do. You are correct; there is nothing wrong with men wearing dresses. I am therefore free to jape about the subject, particularly in relation to my own manly self.

However, in the spirit of conciliation, I hear you when you express your discomfort with the atmosphere. My apologies for you having experienced it.

Why are “Ann Coulter is a man” jokes “sexist and wrong”, and not tolerated, but it’s okay for Tapetum and others on here to make jokes about men wearing dresses,and infer, as Tapetum did in post #6, that wearing dresses is for women and girls only, and not appropriate for males, and that attitude is NOT considered sexist or wrong?

Or Ann Coulter, for that matter, calling men who get hairstyles that she apparently considers “too pretty” or gender-inappropriate, “faggots”, as she called Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards (because of his hairstyle), or, of course, Laura Ingraham and her sexist, anti-male comment about Brett Favre.

Why the double standard?

Good times.