Now, if we had a way of saying “this is your weight from fat, this is your weight from muscle. Based on the two of them, you are X pounds of fat higher than your healthiest fat/muscle/weight ratio.” I mean, who’s going to look at a body builder and say they’re fat?

As for your dirty bike, which seems to me no less complex than my comment about the functioning of the brain, I’m guessing that you are comparing dirt on a bike to fat on a woman, and physical inefficiency on a man. For a lot of people cleaning the ‘dirt’ off further imbalances the bike leaving it seemingly unable to properly access its fuel leaving it functions to work in an extremely erratic manner.

People have always had various views on fat, love, hate indifference. The fact that nowadays hate seems the only choice is a construct of the status quo, that is not quite the same as a dislike of laziness or lack of stunning beauty.

You either made some typos there, or I there’s something wrong with my comprehension. In any case, it does not balance out. If you are hiring male cooks and female waitresses, it goes one way, if you are hiring male clothes horses and female seamstresses, it goes the other way. Trophy wife vs meal ticket, etc…

> Really, why? I mean wouldn’t the capacity to associate the laziness
> and ugliness work at the same time? Or are you saying that the part
> of the brain that conceptualises laziness works more slowly than the
> part that recognises attractiveness.

There is no need to go look for answers that far. Example:

Your dirt bike has a certain amount of mud stuck onto it. You do not need much mud to start thinking “This bike’s dirty, it would look better washed”. Add mud, and you could start thinking “There’s so much mud packed into this bike that it is affecting the balance and the power to weight ratio, it would run better cleaned up”. Add enough mud, and you think “There is no way this bike will run with the exhaust pipe caked like this. I need to clean it”.

In the same way, some people will consider a woman less attractive because of a few extra pounds. Fewer people will consider a man incapable of doing his job because of less than twenty or thirty extra pounds… in most cases. If I had five extra pounds at the time of my next kickboxing match, my chances of winning would go down a lot (different weight class) If I was twenty five pounds overweight, hoping for a win would be stupid.

That’s when I finally figured out it was just a misogynist insult, not really connected to reality.

“Fat” was just one of the worst things he could think of.”

I’ve been called fat too, once, by a kid on a schoolbus (yelled at me). I was wearing a wintercoat, coat isn’t particularly tight and has duvet and feathers to keep warm. I’m skinny and can’t gain weight, even when I try, my low appetite doesn’t help. I’m 5′6″ and about 105 lbs, so I mostly laughed it up to myself. I mean, some people have tried to diagnose me with anorexia nervosa (wrongfully, but because of my weight/size) and I’d be fat?

Conversely, I’ve been called skinny a lot. Especially when my waist was visible in some way, but even without. I got the effect of that much more when perceived as male than when perceived as female. Both men and women commented, ages varying widely (family, co-workers, classmates, acquaintances). It seems my being skinny is considered much more normal/desirable now, although the only thing that changed is people’s perception of me.

being overweight affects the perception of being attracting earlier than it affects the perception of being hard working.

Really, why? I mean wouldn’t the capacity to associate the laziness and ugliness work at the same time? Or are you saying that the part of the brain that conceptualises laziness works more slowly than the part that recognises attractiveness.

Either way this is interesting touching as it does on the way the brain functions and the various interplays between gender and discrimination. It could be stupid, if you are talking nonsense.

This is something many European males can tell you. Tight jeans, swimming
trunks, messenger bags… those have have gotten me in quite a few fights.
I have to admit that I have stopped wearing any of the above.

This whole discussion is stupid. Short men face greater discrimination than
short women. Weak men face greater discrimination than weak women. Lazy
men face greater discrimination than lazy women. Ugly women face greater
discrimination than ugly men. If you are still not getting it:

Being fat is associated with being lazy and being ugly. In our society women
are valued more for their looks and men more for their labor. In our society,
being overweight affects the perception of being attracting earlier than it
affects the perception of being hard working.

It may be sad, it may be unfair, but it sure as Hell is easy to explain.

Here’s the 2004 data from the CDC. They claim 71% of men and 61% of women are “overweight,” and 30% of men and 34% of women are “obese.” I’m not sure why that would matter.

I would flip the causal arrow 180 degrees.

Not just formal women’s wear, but ALL women’s wear tends to be tighter cut. There’s a lot of pressure on young women, especially, but older ones too, to wear tight clothing. Young American men definitely get a pass because of the baggy style issue, but also police each other if their clothing is too “tight.” I had a male student from Sweden a few years ago; in Sweden, it was totally cool for men to wear tight jeans and tight Ts; not so in the US. He came to study here in the heartland and got called a faggot for wearing tight clothes. This happened to him more than once in a few months.

Meanwhile, I went to college in the ’80s and could wear big sweaters; fashions have gotten smaller and smaller, even as bodies have gotten bigger. I’m glad that women with curvy figures feel empowered enough to wear the tight clothes and essentially say “I’m big and I’m hot.” That rocks. However, I think many women are made miserable by this fashion trend.

There was an episode of Star Trek where they go to a planet run by women and the men all had to wear these tight pants that really emphasized their buttocks, for the women’s pleasure. Basically, that’s where we are: the world is increasingly sexualized for women, and their bodies are increasingly surveyed, judged… policed.

That’s when I finally figured out it was just a misogynist insult, not really connected to reality.

“Fat” was just one of the worst things he could think of.

Unless you buy clothes for unusually skinny people, men’s clothes are fairly loose. i can fluctuate 10% weight up or down and it still won’t be very obvious if I’m wearing my typical guy outfit; it mostly shows in my neck. i wear the same jacket sizes that i wore when i was 20+ pounds lighter and i could probably gain another 15 before I’d need new clothes. Does my waist go in, go straight, or bulge out? You can hardly tell.

Formal women’s wear, however, tends to be tighter cut. So do most other clothes for women. You can easily see waist, torso shape, etc. Is that more of a result, or more of a cause?

Quick, Captain Obvious, to the RomeroCopter!!

As an aspiring social scientist, it drives me up the wall when people’s reaction to studies about things that people assume to be true is, roughly, “no shit” frequently followed by “why did that get funding?!” No. Not “no shit.” Conversely, don’t vehemently deny the results of a study just because you don’t agree with them. *sigh* Good social science includes examining ones’ self (researcher) to look for biases.

done with the rant.

Anyway, this kind of make me wonder about sex differences of self-perceived ‘fatness’.

I mean, I’m 5 6, and am a size 14 (which means I’m 160+ lbs). From years of observing my own fluctuations, I consider a 10-12 to be my ‘healthy’ weight. Anything below that takes conscious effort, like extensive dieting/exercise. When I am not getting out or am eating lots of junk food my size moves up and I’ve noticed a decreased ability to do physical things. So, right now, I consider myself ‘unhealthy’ because most of my time is spent doing research/homework, but I don’t consider myself ‘fat’ by any means.

My boyfriend, however, considers himself fat. He’s not skinny by any means, but he’s also generally a larger overall–wide shoulders and all that. He is very very effected by media messages about the proper weight for men. I’ve tried to explain to him that it’s more socially acceptable for him to bigger, and that most people probably wouldn’t consider him fat. Nonetheless, he’s very self-conscious about it.