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Open Thread

Posted by Ampersand | April 9th, 2008

Talk about whatever you’d like. Self-linking is encouraged.

Oh, and here’s a creepy photoshop drawing from Pixeloo:

realhomer.jpg

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26 Responses to “Open Thread”

  1. Dianne Writes:
    April 9th, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    A propos nothing in particular, my stupid question of the day: What do people who live in Jerusalem say at the end of Sedar? “Next year in Jerusalem” seems wrong somehow.

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  2. Ampersand Writes:
    April 9th, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    I’ve been told they say “next year in the rebuilt Jerusalem.”

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  3. Jennifer Writes:
    April 9th, 2008 at 5:03 pm

    That is a scary pic of Homer. I will probably be having nightmares now.

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  4. Sara no H. Writes:
    April 9th, 2008 at 5:52 pm

    I was prolific this week. I wrote one really long piece about my polyamory, and then went and uploaded another really long piece that’s a story-ization of the first DnD session my friends and I had over the weekend.

    I welcome comments on either, as long as they’re respectful.

    And yes, way creepy picture of Homer. *shudder*

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  5. Daisy Writes:
    April 9th, 2008 at 10:43 pm

    If you’ve been looking for Brownfemipower’s blog and can’t seem to find it, this might help:

    Borrowing and Appropriating

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  6. Dianne Writes:
    April 10th, 2008 at 7:49 am

    I’ve been told they say “next year in the rebuilt Jerusalem.”

    Given the social and political situation in Jerusalem, that’s a little creepy.

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  7. Radfem Writes:
    April 10th, 2008 at 9:45 am

    Thanks Daisy, for your link. It’s just awful.

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  8. Sailorman Writes:
    April 10th, 2008 at 10:18 am

    This is the part that confuses me about the Marcotte thing.

    Seems that the basic idea can be summed up in this quote from lexical’s comment:

    Undercutting and ignoring (or not citing) the labor of women of color in this discourse participates in the type of discrimination that you are talking about.

    And, well… does it? It is often preferable to make a point with as much support as you can get. But sometimes (often) we simply make a point, yes? And sometimes (often) we come to similar or identical conclusions as do other people, e.g. “the term ‘illegal’ is dehumanizing.” But unless we happen to be writing an academic paper, we do not have an obligation to cite every prior use of the term. Right?

    So this is why I’m confused. I think there’s an important distinction between saying

    “This point of yours would have been much stronger and better supported had you cited [certain POC bloggers]”

    versus

    “This point of yours is invalid, and you have actively discriminated, by failing to cite [certain POC bloggers.]”

    Can someone help me understand the offense? I don’t see ANY links to non-news organizations, so it’s not as if Marcotte cited a variety of white bloggers for their opinions, while failing to cite any POC. It rather seems that Marcotte simply posted her own opinion, without citing anyone else’s opinion. I’m trying to figure out why that type of opinion piece is a problem.

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  9. Ravenmn Writes:
    April 10th, 2008 at 11:18 am

    Sailorman wrote: It rather seems that Marcotte simply posted her own opinion, without citing anyone else’s opinion. I’m trying to figure out why that type of opinion piece is a problem.

    I think you can find an answer if you examine this assumption:

    “Marcotte simply posted her own opinion, without citing anyone else’s opinion.”

    To come to this conclusion, you need to assume a spectrum with these two extremes:

    On one extreme side (A): Marcotte had read and learned nothing about immigration anywhere. She reads about an immigrant woman being raped. She then writes an article about her personal response to the article. She’s done no research, no investigation into the issue, never has, never will. She’s simply writing an piece about how this woman’s rape affects her personally.

    On the other extreme side (B): Marcotte has read and learned a lot about immigration from a lot of sources. She may even be an immigrant herself who has suffered similar experiences. She reads about an immigrant woman being raped. She does further research before writing the piece. She then writes an article about the incident, provides footnotes, proper citations, etc. She submits it to an academic journal where everything she says is vetted by a panel of scholars familiar with the issue. Back and forth ensues and the piece ends up being published in an esteemed journal.

    Right now, we have huge differences in where we would place Amanda’s article along this spectrum. For me, what you call “her own opinion”, should look like example A, which this particular article certainly is not.

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  10. Sailorman Writes:
    April 10th, 2008 at 12:59 pm

    Thanks for the reply, Ravenmn.

    I guess I simply interpret the extremes differently. I think people can (and do) go way, way, beyond your Example A without acquiring a need to cite to their sources.

    For example, I’m a lawyer. My own views on constitutional law and criminal prosecutions are derived from hundreds if not thousands of books, classes, blog posts, articles, and court cases. It is certain that some of my views are exactly in parallel with the views of prior, published authors, who I have read.

    outside academics I say, and write, many things which would require citation in an academic world. Nobody wants to hear what I’m citing, other than judges.

    And the Marcotte piece is notable not for the excellence of its writing (though I think it’s reasonably well written), but for the sheer GENERALITY of it all. So: she should cite someone? Well, that’s easy. Who?

    ProblemChylde looks at this piece of the Marcotte column and implies she should be citing bfp:
    This woman’s story demonstrates the way that the cut-and-dry distinctions between illegal and legal immigrants touted by the Lou Dobbses of the world tend to turn shades of gray when examined closely.
    I, OTOH, look at that quote and think that Marcotte could 1) cite any one of the 10,000 places that I have heard that, or 2) logically argue that this is such a common and widely-spread (though not majority) belief that there is no reason in hell to cite to someone on it. She could cite my mother, for example.

    So even if we move past #1 (why bfp? Why not anyone else? Hell, hasn’t Amp posted on that?) then #2 seems like a sticking point.

    Marcotte’s whol article seems merely like a conglomeration of thoughts and points which have become so general as not to require citation.

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  11. Acheman Writes:
    April 10th, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    Also, Amanda Marcotte has apparently put herself on record in the past as regular reader of bfp’s blog - it’s not just a question of a lack of research. There’s a link from Daisy’s blog to a post which breaks down the article to show that every point it makes, and every line of argument, is a rephrasing of one of bfp’s. Although sadly you can’t really follow up on the specifics because all the links now go to the hole in the internet where bfp’s blog was.
    Goddammit. Ironically, one of the many, many reasons her blog was so invaluable was that in all the many blogwar explosions she’s been an unfailing voice of reason and, moreover, a voice that managed to lift the argument more successfully than anyone away from she-said-she-saids to the real issues behind it, while remaining passionate and eloquent and invested. I really, really hope she sees fit to start writing again.

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  12. Acheman Writes:
    April 10th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    Here’s the breakdown post

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  13. Sailorman Writes:
    April 10th, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    In reverse order:
    Acheman Writes:
    April 10th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
    There’s a link from Daisy’s blog to a post which breaks down the article to show that every point it makes, and every line of argument, is a rephrasing of one of bfp’s.
    Yes, I had followed that link before I wrote my original response. I also followed quite a few of the bfp links. Outside the context of the below paragraph, I am still not s sure taht it’s as damning as some seem to think it is.

    that said:

    Also, Amanda Marcotte has apparently put herself on record in the past as regular reader of bfp’s blog - it’s not just a question of a lack of research.
    Ah. This, I did not know (I’m not a regular Marcotte reader at all,) and now that I do it makes the entire thing suddenly make tons more sense. And it entirely changes the context.

    Thanks so much for explaining. I figured there was something I was missing, and I was right.

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  14. Donna Writes:
    April 10th, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    Yeah, sailorman, she is a regular reader of BfP, so that’s why her argument is so disingenuous. She says that immigration is a hot topic now. Like it’s something new on her horizon. Meanwhile she knows that BfP has been covering this for years and she’s been reading her for years. That is how Sylvia could find all those links to the way that everything that Marcotte is saying is rephrasing something BfP has said at one time or another and Marcotte had to have seen many if not most of those posts. The reason why people want BfP cited for this is because it is her life’s work, showing that immigrant issues are feminist issues, BfP has been way ahead of the curve on this but Amanda is playing dumb like she couldn’t have known. I’m not doubting that Amanda could have picked up bits and pieces here and there at other blogs, books, conferences etc but the big picture in our small feminist universe is that BfP is the go to woman on immigration being a feminist issue and everyone who is honest will admit that.

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  15. Robert Writes:
    April 10th, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    Amanda Marcotte, intellectually dishonest? I am shocked. Shocked!

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  16. Daran Writes:
    April 11th, 2008 at 4:07 am

    Here’s the breakdown post

    Your link doesn’t work.

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  17. Acheman Writes:
    April 11th, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    Your link doesn’t work.

    Indeed. Bad html; I apologise. I think it’s now up on one of the other threads.

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  18. belledame222 Writes:
    April 12th, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    I’m just helping to spread the word about this charming young entrepreneur:

    http://fetchmemyaxe.blogspot.com/2008/04/laugh-clown-laugh-goddamit.html

    he seems like such a nice young man.

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  19. RonF Writes:
    April 12th, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    Got my annual e-mail about the kids who were admitted to MIT. One of them was a kid I interviewed and recommended, which I do find gratifying. Posters in this forum commonly find diversity to be a goal to pursue and a virtue; check out the numbers below. The one I find most remarkable and perhaps most compelling is the one about how many admits are from families where neither parent has a college degree.

    • 1,554 students out of 13,396 applicants (11.6% admit rate)

    • 52% men, 48% women

    • 10% are African American
    • 28% are Asian American
    • 32% are Caucasian/White
    • 8% are Mexican American
    • 1% are Native American
    • 3% are Puerto Rican
    • 3% are Other Hispanic
    • 8% Other/No response
    • 8% are international students

    • 15% are first generation to college (students for whom both parents do not have a bachelors degree)

    Where they live…

    • 50 states represented, DC and 2 territories
    • 66 foreign countries represented
    • 1048 public high schools represented

    Their achievements…

    • 45% of those who are ranked are #1 in their high school class
    • 92% of those who are ranked are in the top 5% of their high school class
    • SAT mean scores - Verbal 714, Math 757

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  20. Doug S. Writes:
    April 13th, 2008 at 9:46 pm

    I am a member of what has been called “ America’s Most Despised Minority.” Recently, a member of the Illinois General Assembly, Monique Davis, made a series of profoundly disturbing statements:

    Davis: I don’t know what you have against God, but some of us don’t have much against him. We look forward to him and his blessings. And it’s really a tragedy — it’s tragic — when a person who is engaged in anything related to God, they want to fight. They want to fight prayer in school.

    I don’t see you (Sherman) fighting guns in school. You know?

    I’m trying to understand the philosophy that you want to spread in the state of Illinois. This is the Land of Lincoln. This is the Land of Lincoln where people believe in God, where people believe in protecting their children.… What you have to spew and spread is extremely dangerous, it’s dangerous–

    Sherman: What’s dangerous, ma’am?

    Davis: It’s dangerous to the progression of this state. And it’s dangerous for our children to even know that your philosophy exists! Now you will go to court to fight kids to have the opportunity to be quiet for a minute. But damn if you’ll go to [court] to fight for them to keep guns out of their hands. I am fed up! Get out of that seat!

    Sherman: Thank you for sharing your perspective with me, and I’m sure that if this matter does go to court—

    Davis: You have no right to be here! We believe in something. You believe in destroying! You believe in destroying what this state was built upon.

    If this was a rant delivered to a member of any other minority group, Rep. Davis would be out of a job…

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  21. RonF Writes:
    April 14th, 2008 at 6:40 am

    Apparently Rep. Davis has offered Mr. Sherman an apology, offering that she has been quite upset lately over the rash of Chicago Public School children that have been killed lately (the last one beaten to death a block from his school with a baseball bat). Mr. Sherman has accepted the apology. During his acceptance he referred to Rep. Davis as a Negro, which a white columnist in the Tribune called him to task for. Mr. Sherman said that he was brought up to regard the term as one of respect (relative to other terms that I think we can all imagine) and saw no need to apologize for it.

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  22. Alas, a blog » Blog Archive » Anit-Atheist Bigotry And Racism in Chigago Writes:
    April 14th, 2008 at 11:27 am

    […] (Curtsy to Doug and Ron, who discussed this issue briefly in an open thread.) […]

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  23. Kate L. Writes:
    April 14th, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    Congressman calls Obama “boy”

    http://news.nky.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20080414/NEWS0103/304150022&nocache=1

    Apologies if it was already posted, I thought it noteworthy. I especially love that he’s got the old “black friend” defense going on.

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  24. RonF Writes:
    April 15th, 2008 at 1:09 pm

    Where Did All The Girl Geeks Go?

    Excerpts follow:

    While women hold 51 percent of professional jobs in the United States, they make up only 26 percent of the IT work force, according to the National Center for Women & Information Technology. Furthermore, fewer women worked in IT in 2008 than in 2000.

    But the loss of women in the technology field begins long before they reach the professional level. The proportion of CS (computer science) bachelor’s degrees awarded to women has fallen from 36 to 21 percent between 1983 and 2006.

    Dr. Stephen Bloch, a professor in the Department of Math and Computer Science at Adelphi University in Garden City, New York, told eWEEK that computer science degree enrollments have been “in the toilet” since 2001.

    “They seemed to be edging back up in the last year or so, but when people stopped taking these majors, it seemed that the women stopped harder,” Block said.

    Others suggest that many of the technology outreach programs that target girls don’t get started until their attentions have already turned away.

    “By the time they get to high school, there’s already a perception that math and especially computer science is a guy’s thing,” Block said.

    Furthermore, programs that reach out to girls in high school may have already lost their chance to convince girls that working with technology can be cool. “Some studies have shown that as soon as girls turn 12—and maybe now it is even younger—they’re so into their social image and being liked by boys that they dumb themselves down so not to be seen as a geek,” Yusupova said.

    Some suggest that a fixation in the technology and computer-related fields on creating video games, especially those in the kill-them-before-they-kill-you genre, has also pushed girls away.

    “I hear the video game hypothesis a lot from other professors, because these violent games appeal to stereotypically male interests,” said Block, who said he has seen this interest firsthand.

    “We had a department open house for potential CS students a while back. 10 people came, they were almost all male, and most of them were asking us about making video games,” Block said.

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  25. Deniselle Writes:
    April 15th, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    I finally posted my review of Hereville! It’s quite flattering as I couldn’t think of much to criticize, but I assure you that I read the strips carefully and took a long time writing it:

    http://blogaboutcomics.blogspot.com/2008/04/hereville.html

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  26. Radfem Writes:
    April 16th, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    Just blogging away, on a claim of retaliation against police lieutenants. The police department is unhappy with my blog again. I love how the police chief whispers, I like your writing at least in between investigations of whether or not any information in the postings can be tied back to employees.

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