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	<title>Comments on: Dr Horrible&#8217;s Singalong Blog</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/</link>
	<description>Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Maia</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/#comment-336565</link>
		<dc:creator>Maia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 01:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/#comment-336565</guid>
		<description>Me too, I said he was a text book nice guy.

I'm going to write a review of the third act now, which will allow people to spoil to their hearts content.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Me too, I said he was a text book nice guy.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to write a review of the third act now, which will allow people to spoil to their hearts content.</p>
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		<title>By: nobody.really</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/#comment-336560</link>
		<dc:creator>nobody.really</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 18:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/#comment-336560</guid>
		<description>Really, you can’t go wrong with a cartoony pop musical about a down-and-out guy who is so desperate for social acceptance that he can’t imagine that his down-and-out love interest would have any interest in him until he achieves fame.  But in the process of achieving fame he loses the girl, and too late comes to realize that the girl, not the fame, is want he really wanted all along.  No, the movie fails the Bechdel test, but that’s really in keeping with the 1950s-era movies that were being parodied.  

Whoops, we weren’t discussing &lt;i&gt;Little Shop of Horrors?&lt;/i&gt;  My bad.

No, &lt;i&gt;Dr. Horrible&lt;/i&gt; doesn’t pass the Bechdel test either.  As with &lt;i&gt;Little Shop&lt;/i&gt;, it’s parodying an existing paradigm – in this case, the paradigm of cartoon superheros and villains which, for whatever reasons, tend to be white guys.  And, presumably for financial reasons, &lt;i&gt;Dr. Horrible&lt;/i&gt; only lasts around 45 minutes and has only three real characters.  With these constraints, even the lead character doesn’t seem to discuss anything other than his work and his love interest.  (Which really befits an obsessive supervillain, I guess.)  

Is Penny only seen though Dr. Horrible’s eyes?  Arguably Penny is the only character NOT seen exclusively through Dr. Horrible’s eyes.  Penny expresses her own private thoughts, as when she’s trying to get people to sign a petition, or when she’s wondering why she’s not as excited about her relationship with Capt. Hammer as everyone else is, or when she’s cringing in response to Capt. Hammer’s remarks on stage.

Hard to imagine a different ending that wouldn’t have required a substantially longer show.  Compare to &lt;i&gt;Wicked&lt;/i&gt;, in which Glinda achieves all her ambitions (at least temporarily), but must begrudgingly acknowledge that "&lt;a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=YRRXRBLFYSc&#38;feature=related/" rel="nofollow"&gt;There's a kind of a sort of -- cost?  There's a couple of things get – lost?&lt;/a&gt;"  She acknowledges this even before she loses her own love interest, and the show requires another hour to achieve resolution after this point.  Without offering any explicit spoilers, let me suggest that some ways of achieving dramatic resolution are quicker and simpler, which may explain why those ways appear in fiction so often.

&lt;blockquote&gt;‘[T]he hammer is my penis’ is definately a standout line.

Dr. Horrible is sympathetic, but he’s really not a role model.

[T]he argument could be made easily that it was a commentary on the whole Nice Guy™ thing.  &lt;/blockquote&gt;

I was contemplating additional responses, but my circuits keep getting overwhelmed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really, you can’t go wrong with a cartoony pop musical about a down-and-out guy who is so desperate for social acceptance that he can’t imagine that his down-and-out love interest would have any interest in him until he achieves fame.  But in the process of achieving fame he loses the girl, and too late comes to realize that the girl, not the fame, is want he really wanted all along.  No, the movie fails the Bechdel test, but that’s really in keeping with the 1950s-era movies that were being parodied.  </p>
<p>Whoops, we weren’t discussing <i>Little Shop of Horrors?</i>  My bad.</p>
<p>No, <i>Dr. Horrible</i> doesn’t pass the Bechdel test either.  As with <i>Little Shop</i>, it’s parodying an existing paradigm – in this case, the paradigm of cartoon superheros and villains which, for whatever reasons, tend to be white guys.  And, presumably for financial reasons, <i>Dr. Horrible</i> only lasts around 45 minutes and has only three real characters.  With these constraints, even the lead character doesn’t seem to discuss anything other than his work and his love interest.  (Which really befits an obsessive supervillain, I guess.)  </p>
<p>Is Penny only seen though Dr. Horrible’s eyes?  Arguably Penny is the only character NOT seen exclusively through Dr. Horrible’s eyes.  Penny expresses her own private thoughts, as when she’s trying to get people to sign a petition, or when she’s wondering why she’s not as excited about her relationship with Capt. Hammer as everyone else is, or when she’s cringing in response to Capt. Hammer’s remarks on stage.</p>
<p>Hard to imagine a different ending that wouldn’t have required a substantially longer show.  Compare to <i>Wicked</i>, in which Glinda achieves all her ambitions (at least temporarily), but must begrudgingly acknowledge that &#8220;<a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=YRRXRBLFYSc&amp;feature=related/" rel="nofollow">There&#8217;s a kind of a sort of &#8212; cost?  There&#8217;s a couple of things get – lost?</a>&#8221;  She acknowledges this even before she loses her own love interest, and the show requires another hour to achieve resolution after this point.  Without offering any explicit spoilers, let me suggest that some ways of achieving dramatic resolution are quicker and simpler, which may explain why those ways appear in fiction so often.</p>
<blockquote><p>‘[T]he hammer is my penis’ is definately a standout line.</p>
<p>Dr. Horrible is sympathetic, but he’s really not a role model.</p>
<p>[T]he argument could be made easily that it was a commentary on the whole Nice Guy™ thing.  </p></blockquote>
<p>I was contemplating additional responses, but my circuits keep getting overwhelmed.</p>
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		<title>By: Myca</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/#comment-336555</link>
		<dc:creator>Myca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/#comment-336555</guid>
		<description>Well, and as much as I too disliked the ending, the argument could be made easily that it was a commentary on the whole Nice Guy™ thing.

---Myca</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, and as much as I too disliked the ending, the argument could be made easily that it was a commentary on the whole Nice Guy™ thing.</p>
<p>&#8212;Myca</p>
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		<title>By: Ampersand</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/#comment-336554</link>
		<dc:creator>Ampersand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/#comment-336554</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/19/blogging-along-with-dr-horribles-sing-along-blog/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Holly points out&lt;/a&gt; that Dr. Horrible is in fact the classic Nice Guy (tm).

That said, I don't think that Joss fails to understand that stalking is not cool; Dr. Horrible is sympathetic, but he's really not a role model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/19/blogging-along-with-dr-horribles-sing-along-blog/" rel="nofollow">Holly points out</a> that Dr. Horrible is in fact the classic Nice Guy &#8482;.</p>
<p>That said, I don&#8217;t think that Joss fails to understand that stalking is not cool; Dr. Horrible is sympathetic, but he&#8217;s really not a role model.</p>
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		<title>By: JenLovesPonies</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/#comment-336553</link>
		<dc:creator>JenLovesPonies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/#comment-336553</guid>
		<description>Hmm, I guess I shouldn't respond with too many details of part III?  I agree with Ampersand, I was disappointed that the video didn't end with Penny dumping both of them.  On the whole, I enjoyed it, and I think the songs are pure liquid crack, and I love NPH.  From a feminist perspective, I am a little annoyed that Penny didn't realize what a jerk Captain Hammer was, as well as the attitudes towards sex that the captain had.  I can't decide if I should like Dr Horrible- the kid the bully picks on isn't necessarily good just because the bully is bad.  

And come ON, Joss, stalking is not cool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, I guess I shouldn&#8217;t respond with too many details of part III?  I agree with Ampersand, I was disappointed that the video didn&#8217;t end with Penny dumping both of them.  On the whole, I enjoyed it, and I think the songs are pure liquid crack, and I love NPH.  From a feminist perspective, I am a little annoyed that Penny didn&#8217;t realize what a jerk Captain Hammer was, as well as the attitudes towards sex that the captain had.  I can&#8217;t decide if I should like Dr Horrible- the kid the bully picks on isn&#8217;t necessarily good just because the bully is bad.  </p>
<p>And come ON, Joss, stalking is not cool.</p>
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		<title>By: Ampersand</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/#comment-336546</link>
		<dc:creator>Ampersand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/#comment-336546</guid>
		<description>I loved the first two acts, but wasn't in love with the ending. But I won't say more right now for fear of spoilers.

Oh, but here's a &lt;a href="http://lifeofreilly.livejournal.com/597100.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;neat blog entry&lt;/a&gt; with some info about the house they used as the location for Dr. Horrible's apartment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I loved the first two acts, but wasn&#8217;t in love with the ending. But I won&#8217;t say more right now for fear of spoilers.</p>
<p>Oh, but here&#8217;s a <a href="http://lifeofreilly.livejournal.com/597100.html" rel="nofollow">neat blog entry</a> with some info about the house they used as the location for Dr. Horrible&#8217;s apartment.</p>
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		<title>By: Silenced is Foo</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/#comment-336513</link>
		<dc:creator>Silenced is Foo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:56:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/#comment-336513</guid>
		<description>I think it's hard to fault Whedon for failing at the Bechdel test, given that there are probably a few Buffy episodes that accomplish the rare feat of failing the anti-Bechdel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s hard to fault Whedon for failing at the Bechdel test, given that there are probably a few Buffy episodes that accomplish the rare feat of failing the anti-Bechdel.</p>
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		<title>By: Maia</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/#comment-336492</link>
		<dc:creator>Maia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 04:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/#comment-336492</guid>
		<description>Thanks for fixing the link Myca.

I agree that teh third part will be the revealing one, and I'm expecting that it'll go in unexpected directions.  But I guess I was comparing it to Sugarshock, where the third part did go in unexpected directions, but I felt there was more awesome stuff in the earlier parts.  Not that there aren't awesome bits (and I agree that the songs are fantastic, I love the bad horse songs), but I expect more. 

Although 'the hammer is my penis' is definately a standout line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for fixing the link Myca.</p>
<p>I agree that teh third part will be the revealing one, and I&#8217;m expecting that it&#8217;ll go in unexpected directions.  But I guess I was comparing it to Sugarshock, where the third part did go in unexpected directions, but I felt there was more awesome stuff in the earlier parts.  Not that there aren&#8217;t awesome bits (and I agree that the songs are fantastic, I love the bad horse songs), but I expect more. </p>
<p>Although &#8216;the hammer is my penis&#8217; is definately a standout line.</p>
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		<title>By: Myca</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/#comment-336466</link>
		<dc:creator>Myca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:39:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/#comment-336466</guid>
		<description>And, since I didn't mention it before: 'Brand New Day', the ending song for Episode 2?

Fucking awesome.

---Myca</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And, since I didn&#8217;t mention it before: &#8216;Brand New Day&#8217;, the ending song for Episode 2?</p>
<p>Fucking awesome.</p>
<p>&#8212;Myca</p>
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		<title>By: Myca</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/#comment-336465</link>
		<dc:creator>Myca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/#comment-336465</guid>
		<description>It should be fixed now, I think. I hope you don't mind my fiddling with your code, Maia.

As for the show: I totally agree with your criticisms, but I think a lot of how the work as a whole reads will have to do with the conclusion . . . if Penny ends up as the stereotypical damsel in distress, I'll have a lot of issues with that. If, on the other hand, she realizes that both Captain Hammer and Doctor Horrible are kind of jerks, well . . . that's not a bad ending at all.

---Myca</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It should be fixed now, I think. I hope you don&#8217;t mind my fiddling with your code, Maia.</p>
<p>As for the show: I totally agree with your criticisms, but I think a lot of how the work as a whole reads will have to do with the conclusion . . . if Penny ends up as the stereotypical damsel in distress, I&#8217;ll have a lot of issues with that. If, on the other hand, she realizes that both Captain Hammer and Doctor Horrible are kind of jerks, well . . . that&#8217;s not a bad ending at all.</p>
<p>&#8212;Myca</p>
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		<title>By: Daran</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/#comment-336462</link>
		<dc:creator>Daran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 14:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/07/17/dr-horribles-singalong-blog/#comment-336462</guid>
		<description>Your link at 2) is borked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your link at 2) is borked.</p>
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