Have you heard of Fat Princess? It’s a new video game,1 which Feminist Gamers 2 describes as “a TF2-like3 capture-the-flag game where the point is to feed your princess enough cake so that she grows really fat so that the opposing team can’t carry her back to their castle.” Apparently the game mechanics are well-designed and innovative.
Liss at Shakes is pissed. (Curtsy my friend Bill, who despite being fat himself is pissed that Liss is pissed.)
As I said in Bill’s comments, I guess I should be pissed by Fat Princess, but honestly I have a hard time giving a shit; it’s just people trying to be immature and offensive, because that kind of thing is funny. (And it is.)4
These kind of fat jokes are rebellion for the gutless — offensive enough so that people can pretend to be daring, but not so offensive that they’re risking pissing off anyone who matters. Fat jokes today are what Polish jokes were in the 1970s.
Fatophobic crap like “Fat Princess” is more effect than cause; it’s a reflection of an anti-fat culture, and when the culture changes then the sheep who made “Fat Princess” will move on to some other target.
UPDATE: Excellent post at Feministe, by a game designer.
- By the way, I’ve got no patience for the people who say “c’mon, it’s just a game.” So if that’s all you’ve got to contribute, then take your anti-intellectual cliches elsewhere, please.↩
- In the thread at Feminist Gamers, I thought the folks discussing creating a game called “Arm the Princess” were on to something, but it would be better if instead of the Princess just fighting to repel invaders, she was fighting to kill off her parents and rule the land herself (that’ll teach them to try and marry her off). And why is the princess in “Arm the Princess” so thin? Make her fat, please!↩
- For the record, I have no idea what TF2 is.↩
- Years ago, someone — I think it may have been bell hooks — pointed out how ridiculous it is that people argue about “is ____ offensive or funny,” as if these are mutually exclusive categories.↩
Related posts:
TF2 = Team Fortress 2, a wildly popular online capture-the-flag game where people can pick from a set of designated rolls in order to help their team win.
I’ve had to shut down my original thread and am currently just cleaning out moderation. Let it never be said that reading for comprehension was a troll’s strongpoint. :)
Okay, that actually is a really, funny, clever idea for a game, even without the “laugh at the fattie” part. Too bad it’s also an obvious fat-joke. And yeah, you’re definitely right about fat-jokes being an easy way to be viciously mean and edgy without hurting the feelings of anybody with any victim-clout.
edit: Mighty Ponygirl – a shorter version of your post. TF2 = AWESOME.
Thanks for the explanation, Ponygirl. It was definitely too bad that you had to shut that thread down — I was enjoying the discussion of Arm The Princess.
(And thanks for the shorter, er, explanation, SiF.)
It is funny. It’s also crude and hurtful, and I can’t imagine how bad it would make me feel if I was a fat girl and saw people playing this.
People suck.
Fatophobic crap like “Fat Princess” is more cause than effect;
I think you wrote that backwards.
Whoops! Correction made.
I wonder if they were even trying to be offensive. Immaturity probably came naturally, but I doubt the developers were even aware that anyone could take offense to the premise of their game. To them the princess is a cartoon character based on a fairy tale archetype with no connection to reality, and stuffing her full of food is about the equivalent of playing whack-a-mole. The developers would likely refrain from actually whacking a real live mole; but pretending to beat cartoon critters? Sure, what the heck.
Here the classic “reality vs. fantasy” debate regarding video games arises. When you stuff the princess, are you indulging a silly, toddler-mentality impulse to watch the funny cartoon character get funnier looking? Or are you indulging something more venal, a fat-phobic, misogynistic, destructive impulse courtesy of everyone’s favorite inculcator of bad things, Society At Large? Is this an either-or situation, depending on the individual, or the level of negative social influence? Does playing whack-a-mole put one in the same category as the sociopathic child who tortures small animals?
I don’t have answers to such questions. But I think they arise anytime someone plays video games involving some sort of violence, however cartoony. There is a huge difference between this and, say, Grand Theft Auto. Still, they raise similar questions.
“…are you indulging a silly, toddler-mentality impulse to watch the funny cartoon character get funnier looking?”
The fact that fatness is presented as ‘funnier looking’ is itself part of the problem here.
I probably will piss of a few Shake’s readers with this, but their comments thread was absurd on both sides. On top of the misogynist trolls, you had regular readers there who did nothing but go “your so stupid and have a small penis lolololol”
It made me sincerely grateful for the excellent discussion on Alas
the point is to feed your princess enough cake so that she grows really fat so that the opposing team can’t carry her back to their castle.
How would the game feel if the princess were active? For example, if the background to the game was something like, “Princess Mary Sue was never the typical etherial, wisp like princess of fairy tales and now she was glad. The only thing standing between her country and destruction was her ability to stay in the castle. She’d fight with the weapons she had…” After which you, as the princess, eat as much cake as possible, practice sumo wrestling, and learn non-violent resistance techniques such as how to make yourself more difficult to drag off. If you win, you end as a fat, strong queen who the guys and gals all swoon over.
Dianne, I’m not saying that I wouldn ‘t still have some complaints – but I’d like that game a LOT better.
…I have my problems with the Shakesville commentariat at times, but I think you’re reacting to the thread which was specifically laid out to demonstrate the anti-fat trolling that the site was getting. The moderation had been called off, to allow through even the most vile comments about fat people in general (like they should all be killed, placed in concentration camps, etc.) and Melissa specifically.
I really have no problem with the way that thread was handled. A thread that was set out with the goal of allowing assholes to say that fat people should be rounded up into camps and murdered is not a thread in which kind, moderate discussion is going to be possible. Or even desirable. It’s particularly odd to conflate the bigotry on one side with the mocking of bigotry on the other.
I’m not saying that I wouldn ‘t still have some complaints – but I’d like that game a LOT better.
Eh, what do you want from a non-professional whose only thought about it for 5 minutes anyway? The elements I was trying to include, which I’d like to see in a video game, any video game, are: 1. overweight hero/heroine where the weight is either a positive or neutral thing, not an obstacle to be overcome or a joke, 2. nonviolent methods of resisting oppression. I’d like to see a game that simulates methods for dealing with an overwhelmingly superior military force. (I’d best stop now because I can sense Robert rolling his eyes so hard he’s likely to sprain his occular muscles.)
Sun Tzu teaches us clearly how to deal with an enemy who has overwhelmingly superior military force: don’t have a battle.
Which tends to make for a poor conflict-style game.
OTOH, non-conflict games can be a lot of fun.
Mandolin, I didn’t mean to make them seem equal. Bigotry is vicious; immaturity is just irritating. It just all seemed very absurd. I’m not attempting to make a comment about all of Shakesville just for the record; I almost never read the blog unless I’m linked to one of the posts. Its just that this thread didn’t give me the best impression of their regulars (or their trolls for that matter)
That’s totally understandable. I think the issue is context, though — that thread was a cessation of normal rules to an actual (IMO worthwhile) purpose. Out of context, though, I can totally see why it would be off-putting.
There are totally other Shakesville comment threads that drive me crazy; I just don’t know if this one was representative.
I suspect we’re on the same page, more or less. ;)
Good it got cleared up :)
Anyway, in terms of the game itself, its a sad indicator of the gaming industry when that is one of the least violent and blatantly misogynistic plotlines I’ve heard of in recent times
Just a random comment here:
I am a “Fat Chick” and I guess I can take some comfort in the fact that the asinine dorks who will buy this game thinking (Heard in our heads in the style of Beavis and Butt-head) “Huh huh huh, Fat chicks suck!” will be sitting on their own ever expanding asses and completely missing the delicious irony in that, it’s a small comfort, but I take what I can get.
i think this is being taken WAY to far. i’ve only seen small clips of the game and its MORE than clear that the target market IS NOT teen (+) males. it appears to be a childrens game and if that is indeed the case, i cant think of one child that has walked away from a game with a more hatefule outlook on life esp when there are no guns in sight. and even if the game did change the views of a small minded male teen gamer, WHO CARES? last i checked gamers were one step up from the chess club. grow some skin, and work on your confidence.
A fat princess game not only sounds like a last ditch effort, it is scraping the slimy bottom of the last ditch.
Game designers have enough technology to knock their customer’s socks off but so little imagination they market a fat princess game…..what is up with that?!
Makes me glad I learned to read!!
Cry more please. God damn. Whoever gets offended at this game, seriously needs to start jogging. And like, 5 years ago before your blood pressure raised exponentially and arteries got clogged more and more all the while.
Oh and two, I think it’s showing any children that play the game that they need to take care of themselves, unlike the women complaining about the game who have probably already lost 15 years of their lives from sitting on their asses bitching about video games, between their smut books and The Price Is Right.
Get a bike, go jogging, join the ymca and swim/run, get roller blades and use them, walk to the store that’s 1/4 mile away, join Jenny Craig, get on a diet, cut down on soda, DO SOMETHING INSTEAD OF CRYING EVERY TIME SOMEONE PUTS DOWN BEING OVERWEIGHT.
I’m a little pissed that people are so pissed. First of all I doubt the game’s soul purpose was to make fun of fat girls. Personally I don’t see it as offensive, but more of a cute Japanese game that is trying to stir up a bit of controversy to help sales.
Honestly, I don’t understand this culture. I’m tired of people trying to defend our (growing) obesity problem, and I do not see the need for overweight characters to be glorified. Conversely. I don’t think extremely skinny characters should be glorified either (both create unhealthy ideals of beauty), and while that is common in video games reversing the equation is NOT THE ANSWER.
In summation, I will be adding this game to my collection, if it offends someone who has an unhealthy weight problem, good. Maybe guilt will help highlight our poor eating habits and lack of exercise. You can put a blanket over a fat girl, but she’s still fat. You can stop making games like Fat Princess, but that’s not going to make you a better person. Or skinnier. =/
Clearly, Heather, I think that the main problem is that fat people aren’t shamed enough.
That’s an awesome point, and one I don’t believe I’ve ever heard made before.
And so your response to this is to help make everyone just feel better about it? There’s no reason to turn your hate on a game for your own problems, it isn’t a solution, it’s a distraction to the real matter at hand. I don’t believe a hate message for the overweight should be spread, and I don’t see Fat Princess as some just a joke at the expensive of the obese. But you shouldn’t try to adapt cultural standards to make being unhealthily overweight an okay thing when there is an obesity epidemic on the rise. It’s a tricky situation, I don’t think people should be ridiculed, but that doesn’t mean an unhealthy lifestyle should be glorified.
Heather, the problem here is that (to put it bluntly) you really don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.
First off, of course, being what science and culture have traditionally defined as overweight leads, in many cases, to actually fewer health issues than not. Remember a while back when they realized that the healthiest BMI was actually higher than what they’d defined as optimal?
Huh. Well, gosh, if the ‘healthiest’ point is above what’s optimal, I wonder how they came up with ‘optimal’ in the first place? I don’t suppose it might have had something to do with the idea that everyone’s supposed to be toned, tanned and svelte, would it? I don’t suppose it might have had something to do with the idea that fat people are objects of ridicule, would it? I don’t suppose it might have had something to do with what we’re talking about, and why this game is problematic, would it?
Of course, even if we accept that being fat is unhealthy, there’s the question of ‘how not to be.’ Contra your ‘unhealthy lifestyle’ theory (Awesome theory, by the way.), you might want to take a look at what Time magazine (and science) has to say on the topic.
Wow. A calorie-restricted diet and an hour of exercise every day, and they achieved a total reduction of 10% after two years? Clearly, they were too busy glorifying unhealthy lifestyles to lose more weight.
—Myca
We aren’t talking about the what weight is healthy. You are being over presumptuous of everything I’m saying. But I’ll roll with it, (no pun intended) so if being overweight is healthy then why is obesity ranked 2nd in the leading causes of preventable death in the united states? Obviously this is because not everyone is healthy and still overweight, and just because there are those that are doesn’t mean everyone with an unhealthy weight problem gets to hide behind it.
We’re not even on the same page, anymore. I’m not talking about how moderate exercise and diet isn’t working for women, I don’t believe I’ve mentioned it at all, actually. The entire point of my comment and argument was in fact, that due to the increase in our unhealthily overweight population there is now a higher demand for video games with fat characters and icons. Never once did I mention how diet and exercise is hard, or an ideal size. But let’s be realistic, a 270 pound person is not healthy, and I am tired of people trying to defend such a size and maintaining such a size.
Of course you didn’t mention it.
What you did say was that it’s a good thing to make fat people feel guilty.
What I am doing is pointing out that we have no good way of making fat people be not-fat.
The myth that people who think that fat-shaming does something useful believe is that if fat people only felt badly enough about themselves, they would stop being fat.
This is bullshit.
The science shows that this is bullshit.
Exercising an hour a day doesn’t work.
Dieting doesn’t work.
Both together doesn’t work.
Without a good way for fat people to stop being fat, fat shaming does nothing more than help reinforce your own sense of entitlement. It’s like tall-shaming, blonde-shaming, or Asian-shaming. No matter how shitty someone like you makes a fat person feel, it won’t do a damn thing.
—Myca
EDIT: Sorry, I should have said that it won’t do a damn thing to change their weight. It’ll do plenty.
Heather,
We have a word for people who go out of their way to hurt other people. Are you sure you want to lump yourself in with that crowd?
“But it’s for their own good!”, you say. Well, the vast majority of research disagrees with you. Why do you think your opinion is more correct than the vast majority of research?
And, leaving aside for the moment the question of whether or not you are correct, how is it that you are comfortable enforcing your idea of the way things ought to be on others? You wouldn’t trim your neighbor’s ugly mullet or repaint his ugly car; how is it that you’re comfortable adjusting how your neighbor feels about his size? There’s a word for people who do that sort of thing, too.
OK. Realistically. If I were 2 inches taller, I’d weigh around 270 pounds. My doctor doesn’t think I’m unhealthy, and he has had some six years of medical training. How much medical training have you had, that you feel comfortable overriding his professional opinion?
And please be realistic.
A deadly weight is not the same thing as race or a born hair color, and I will always stand by the fact that a dangerously unhealthy weight shouldn’t warrant a measure of pride for it’s own existence. If diet and exercise never work then why hasn’t our epidemic always existed? Why is it now, in recent times, that obesity sky rockets? A change in life style does make a difference, for you that change may not be a moderate one.
I would still add a game like this to my collection, I don’t see it as something that offends me or exists to make fun of everyone with an unhealthy weight problem, in this case I see it as a matter of perspective, and people are taking it as they like.
Ah, right. “I don’t care what the science and facts say, I know what’s right!”
That’s an excellent point, and also is one that’s never been made before.
Excuse me? That’s awful presumptuous of you, isn’t it? I never said that. I also don’t blindly follow news articles and charts. I would like you to point me to the article and chart that says I’m wrong about America’s growing obesity problem and tell me how it’s not the result of life style changes. We share the same genetics that have been passed down from the very ancestors that didn’t have this problem, so don’t hop on the genetics train, sister. As you have stated yourself, that argument has already been made before.
Heather, you can go read some of the other posts about fat on this blog and come back when you’re less appallingly ignorant (and thus able to sustain a coherent and/or interesting argument), or you can stop posting on this blog at all.
Sister.
Yes, Mandolin. Because a personal attack is the best way to prove your point. Consider it proven, I’m not going to argue with someone so blatantly hostile.
I will be looking forward to the release of Fat Princess, in fact, I think see about pre-ordering it now.
Also, while being 270 pounds (can) be healthy it also not an accurate depiction of the general population. (I’ll admit I wasn’t being specific enough. You cannot be 5’2, 270 pounds and call yourself a picture of health)
You can point to any graph or news article you want. Cities have the lowest levels of physical activity with all the convince of crowded living and the highest amount of fast food consumption. What a funny coincidence that they also have generally the highest percentage of obesity.
…none of which explains why you think it’s such a good idea to try to shame fat people.
There are several facts you’ve failed to grasp, Heather. Two of the critical ones here are:
1) Shaming people doesn’t make them skinnier. Or healthier. Quite the opposite, actually.
2) Other people’s size is none of your business. Trying to make it your business is astoundingly rude.
You know what else doesn’t make people skinnier? Whining about games like Fat Princess. I never said I would actively mock the obese, nor do I honestly care whether or not anyone is overweight. I’m tired of the bad wrap this game is getting just because people decide they want to take offense.
And if I was one to point fingers I would say that I wasn’t the one to deviate from this topic in the first place.
So back on topic then, perhaps it was a bit hasty of me to say that it was good people felt bad about the game. In fact that’s actually not the reaction I was hoping for. More importantly my original statement was targeting a post earlier who demanded an overweight protagonist as if to glorify an unhealthy diet and my point was that this was a bad idea. I am tired of people taking pride in a problematic issue and trying to make being unhealthy and making unhealthy choices an okay part of life. Complaining about Fat Princess, and trying to derive pride out of obesity are nothing but distractions which do nothing for the actual problem.
Quickly, who said the following quote?
Was this…
a) Jesse Helms, talking about gays,
or
b) Heather, talking about fat people?
Heather, you clearly haven’t taken Mandolin’s direction to go do some reading and educate yourself. Please, go do so. Keep going until you understand that (1) being fat isn’t necessarily unhealthy, and (2) being unhappy or ashamed of being fat is unhealthy. Here’s a good starting point for you.
Wait! Stop! You were about to respond, weren’t you? No. Go read first. Keep going until you understand. Then respond.
Why, sister, how quickly you forget your own hostility toward people who tried to address you civilly. Sister, it is not considered polite to mock and instruct in a hostile tone other posters, sister. I do understand, sister, that it’s difficult to have one’s own hostility met with hostility, but sometimes, sister, this occurs.
Now, since you seem to have failed to grasp the fact that I’m a moderator here, let me make it clear again. Toddle off and educate yourself and stop talking in rude and ignorant little loops, or toddle off the site.
You preach about education and yet you’ve not responded to any facts, and Mandolin, sweetie, I don’t care if you’re a moderator or not. I don’t even know what the hell this place is, I just stumbled into what seems to be the gaping vagina of a overweight feminists angst sight.
Call your news articles what you will, I’m seeing nothing here but thick delusion, no pun intended, which is pointless to argue with, so I think I will indeed take my leave now.
Oh my god, Heather, STFU. Learn to spell, learn to research, learn not be a troll. Srsly, she’s making me roll my eyes so hard she’s giving me a strain. Oh noes it must be becuz I’m FAT! And UNHEALTHY! Oh god now no one will ever love me! Pleez someone shame me and make me feel guilty until I’m thin!
Better yet, please keep your stupid priveleged bigotry to yourself. You’re not right and no amount of concern trolling is going to make fat-shaming okay.
GTFO kthxbai.