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	<title>Comments on: Defanging Holy Joe</title>
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	<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/11/19/defanging-holy-joe/</link>
	<description>Feminist, anti-racist, pro-fat, plus whatever else we feel like talking about.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 11:23:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: AlanSmithee</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/11/19/defanging-holy-joe/#comment-344833</link>
		<dc:creator>AlanSmithee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/?p=5534#comment-344833</guid>
		<description>So, in short, you really have no idea how "your" party is run. 

Lieberman PAID for his chairmanship.  Understand?  200K to the dscc plus over half a mil in fundraising.  Lieberman doesn't have to be a "good soldier."  That's YOUR job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, in short, you really have no idea how &#8220;your&#8221; party is run. </p>
<p>Lieberman PAID for his chairmanship.  Understand?  200K to the dscc plus over half a mil in fundraising.  Lieberman doesn&#8217;t have to be a &#8220;good soldier.&#8221;  That&#8217;s YOUR job.</p>
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		<title>By: paul</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/11/19/defanging-holy-joe/#comment-344782</link>
		<dc:creator>paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/?p=5534#comment-344782</guid>
		<description>It's worse than that. Because people threatened to remove him from his post, Joe will be touted as a Courageous Maverick Whistleblower when he goes on Fox to announce that he has discovered Obama is really a muslim. (Oh, wait, he did that already.)

This is going to need a consistent pushback from everyone with a position to speak to the public. Not "Lieberman, that slimeball" but "Old Joe, he's such a joke he wasn't even worth slapping on the wrist."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s worse than that. Because people threatened to remove him from his post, Joe will be touted as a Courageous Maverick Whistleblower when he goes on Fox to announce that he has discovered Obama is really a muslim. (Oh, wait, he did that already.)</p>
<p>This is going to need a consistent pushback from everyone with a position to speak to the public. Not &#8220;Lieberman, that slimeball&#8221; but &#8220;Old Joe, he&#8217;s such a joke he wasn&#8217;t even worth slapping on the wrist.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Gar Lipow</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/11/19/defanging-holy-joe/#comment-344708</link>
		<dc:creator>Gar Lipow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 03:28:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/?p=5534#comment-344708</guid>
		<description>&#62;... do you really want the next Congress to be a soap opera dramafest starting right now? No? I don’t, so let him stay; he’ll cause no more trouble than any other Blue Dogs.

He has Subpoena power as committee chair. Remove him from that committee, and he loses that. He is in a great position to start trouble-making investigations over nothing. Are you confident he won't? Or are you confident, he won't get backing from the press? Keeping him Homeland Security chair avoids minor drama now at the expense of major drama soon - (six to eighteen months). Big mistake...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&#8230; do you really want the next Congress to be a soap opera dramafest starting right now? No? I don’t, so let him stay; he’ll cause no more trouble than any other Blue Dogs.</p>
<p>He has Subpoena power as committee chair. Remove him from that committee, and he loses that. He is in a great position to start trouble-making investigations over nothing. Are you confident he won&#8217;t? Or are you confident, he won&#8217;t get backing from the press? Keeping him Homeland Security chair avoids minor drama now at the expense of major drama soon - (six to eighteen months). Big mistake&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Thene</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/11/19/defanging-holy-joe/#comment-344701</link>
		<dc:creator>Thene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 02:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/?p=5534#comment-344701</guid>
		<description>I agree with Jeff on this one, but tentatively; there's a lot of good reasons on both sides, but do you really want the next Congress to be a soap opera dramafest starting right now?  No?  I don't, so let him stay; he'll cause no more trouble than any other Blue Dogs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Jeff on this one, but tentatively; there&#8217;s a lot of good reasons on both sides, but do you really want the next Congress to be a soap opera dramafest starting right now?  No?  I don&#8217;t, so let him stay; he&#8217;ll cause no more trouble than any other Blue Dogs.</p>
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		<title>By: Radfem</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/11/19/defanging-holy-joe/#comment-344671</link>
		<dc:creator>Radfem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/?p=5534#comment-344671</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;In short, Lieberman will be a good soldier. If not, he’ll be forced out — but after proving once and for all that he can’t be trusted.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think that moment came and went.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>In short, Lieberman will be a good soldier. If not, he’ll be forced out — but after proving once and for all that he can’t be trusted.</p></blockquote>
<p>I think that moment came and went.</p>
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		<title>By: Renee</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/11/19/defanging-holy-joe/#comment-344623</link>
		<dc:creator>Renee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/?p=5534#comment-344623</guid>
		<description>I believe that this is a mistake. Good ole Joe cannot be trusted and should be ousted immediately.  Yes he will get attention at first but like all stories his to will outrun its interest for the people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that this is a mistake. Good ole Joe cannot be trusted and should be ousted immediately.  Yes he will get attention at first but like all stories his to will outrun its interest for the people.</p>
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		<title>By: Gar Lipow</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/11/19/defanging-holy-joe/#comment-344617</link>
		<dc:creator>Gar Lipow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/?p=5534#comment-344617</guid>
		<description>1) You do know that while appointments are made bay a simple majority, any attempt to take the chair away from Lieberman once he gets it can be filibustered? That's right, if anyone (including Lieberman) wants to make an issue of it it takes 60 votes to take the gavel away.

2) If Lieberman decides to go after Obama, it won't just be on Fox news. It will be a sorrowful Holy Joe using his power to investigate Obama for terrorist associations or high treason, as proven Obama's driving 26 mph in a 25 mph zone. And watch the media go crazy if the Democrats try to pull his gavel in the middle of an investigation by this "moderate independent man of integrity, and centrist Democrat".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) You do know that while appointments are made bay a simple majority, any attempt to take the chair away from Lieberman once he gets it can be filibustered? That&#8217;s right, if anyone (including Lieberman) wants to make an issue of it it takes 60 votes to take the gavel away.</p>
<p>2) If Lieberman decides to go after Obama, it won&#8217;t just be on Fox news. It will be a sorrowful Holy Joe using his power to investigate Obama for terrorist associations or high treason, as proven Obama&#8217;s driving 26 mph in a 25 mph zone. And watch the media go crazy if the Democrats try to pull his gavel in the middle of an investigation by this &#8220;moderate independent man of integrity, and centrist Democrat&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Lieberman Keeps Senate Homeland Security Committee Chairmanship &#124; Prose Before Hos</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/11/19/defanging-holy-joe/#comment-344598</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Lieberman Keeps Senate Homeland Security Committee Chairmanship &#124; Prose Before Hos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/?p=5534#comment-344598</guid>
		<description>[...] Stays In Democratic Caucus, Dear Democrats: If You Must Blame, Blame Obama, Weird, Joementum!, Defanging Holy Joe, and What Lieberman Owes [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Stays In Democratic Caucus, Dear Democrats: If You Must Blame, Blame Obama, Weird, Joementum!, Defanging Holy Joe, and What Lieberman Owes [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nomen Nescio</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/11/19/defanging-holy-joe/#comment-344588</link>
		<dc:creator>Nomen Nescio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/?p=5534#comment-344588</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=""&gt;If Lieberman strays off the reservation, the Democrats can cut him off — and do so more-in-sorrow-than-in-anger, explaining that they tried to work with Lieberman, but he made the decision for them.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

except that if they actually &lt;em&gt;could&lt;/em&gt; do that, they could have done it &lt;em&gt;this&lt;/em&gt; time. or, for that matter, the &lt;em&gt;last&lt;/em&gt; time he stabbed the dems in the back.

but they didn't then and they aren't now, and so they won't the next time, nor any other time either. and &lt;em&gt;that's&lt;/em&gt; why we have a permanent republican majority in actual practice, even if not in poli-sci theory.

sure, you list a few more or less hypothetical reasons why it "can't be done now". but there's no reason whatever to assume, as you seem to, that either the same ones or equally weighty ones won't still be there every time holy-joe stabs the dems in the back in the future. just as was the case in the past. you either take the bull by the horns, or the bull keeps right on trampling you; same for bullies like joe, same for the bullies that drive the GOP. quit making excuses for why the dems can't grab these bastards by the horns just &lt;em&gt;this&lt;/em&gt; time around, but just we wait until &lt;em&gt;next&lt;/em&gt; time, &lt;em&gt;then&lt;/em&gt; we'll see... the exact same thing happen &lt;strong&gt;again&lt;/strong&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite=""><p>If Lieberman strays off the reservation, the Democrats can cut him off — and do so more-in-sorrow-than-in-anger, explaining that they tried to work with Lieberman, but he made the decision for them.</p></blockquote>
<p>except that if they actually <em>could</em> do that, they could have done it <em>this</em> time. or, for that matter, the <em>last</em> time he stabbed the dems in the back.</p>
<p>but they didn&#8217;t then and they aren&#8217;t now, and so they won&#8217;t the next time, nor any other time either. and <em>that&#8217;s</em> why we have a permanent republican majority in actual practice, even if not in poli-sci theory.</p>
<p>sure, you list a few more or less hypothetical reasons why it &#8220;can&#8217;t be done now&#8221;. but there&#8217;s no reason whatever to assume, as you seem to, that either the same ones or equally weighty ones won&#8217;t still be there every time holy-joe stabs the dems in the back in the future. just as was the case in the past. you either take the bull by the horns, or the bull keeps right on trampling you; same for bullies like joe, same for the bullies that drive the GOP. quit making excuses for why the dems can&#8217;t grab these bastards by the horns just <em>this</em> time around, but just we wait until <em>next</em> time, <em>then</em> we&#8217;ll see&#8230; the exact same thing happen <strong>again</strong>.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Fecke</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/11/19/defanging-holy-joe/#comment-344541</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Fecke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/?p=5534#comment-344541</guid>
		<description>Don't get me wrong, I know Lieberman could stray. But in the junior high world of DC, he'd end up getting the rap for it if he did. Lieberman won't be a good soldier out of altruism -- not an altruistic bone in his body. But he may be one because it's in his interests to be one. Nobody likes an ingrate, not even the GOP, and if he wanders off the reservation, that's exactly what he'll be viewed as, by all sides.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I know Lieberman could stray. But in the junior high world of DC, he&#8217;d end up getting the rap for it if he did. Lieberman won&#8217;t be a good soldier out of altruism &#8212; not an altruistic bone in his body. But he may be one because it&#8217;s in his interests to be one. Nobody likes an ingrate, not even the GOP, and if he wanders off the reservation, that&#8217;s exactly what he&#8217;ll be viewed as, by all sides.</p>
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		<title>By: Bjartmarr</title>
		<link>http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/11/19/defanging-holy-joe/#comment-344532</link>
		<dc:creator>Bjartmarr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amptoons.com/blog/?p=5534#comment-344532</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;In short, Lieberman will be a good soldier.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Lieberman has spent the last six or so years proving that he is anything but a good soldier. I think your confidence is misplaced. 

What has he got to fear? He's already proven that he can get re-elected even without the support of the Democratic Party. And now he knows that he can get away with not only campaigning for the Republican presidential nominee, but with doing so in a particularly sleazy way. Short of pissing in the President's morning coffee, is there anything this guy can do that will get him booted?

I don't think the Democrats should be vengeful. But we have decided to steer the nation on a significantly different course from the one that the Republicans have been advocating. And while "reaching across the aisle" to some of the more moderate, sensible Republicans is worthwhile, I don't think it's necessary or beneficial to hand any more power to the right-wing lunatic fringe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>In short, Lieberman will be a good soldier.</p></blockquote>
<p>Lieberman has spent the last six or so years proving that he is anything but a good soldier. I think your confidence is misplaced. </p>
<p>What has he got to fear? He&#8217;s already proven that he can get re-elected even without the support of the Democratic Party. And now he knows that he can get away with not only campaigning for the Republican presidential nominee, but with doing so in a particularly sleazy way. Short of pissing in the President&#8217;s morning coffee, is there anything this guy can do that will get him booted?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the Democrats should be vengeful. But we have decided to steer the nation on a significantly different course from the one that the Republicans have been advocating. And while &#8220;reaching across the aisle&#8221; to some of the more moderate, sensible Republicans is worthwhile, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s necessary or beneficial to hand any more power to the right-wing lunatic fringe.</p>
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