Disgust and a lack of surprise at how racist the prison system is. Why do you ask, Brandon?

I ask because that’s the answer I expected. It’s almost certain that black men would be classified as high-risk at greater rates than white men. Racism may be an aggravating factor, but the reality is that prison rape (between male prisoners, at least) is perpetrated disproportionately by black men, and disproportionately against white men.

My worry is that when leftists see that such a policy is having a racially disparate impact, you’ll refuse to accept the possibility that there could be legitimate reasons for it, and demand that segregation by risk level be discontinued because the prison system is just too racist ever to implement it fairly.

So; who to punish? May as well be the one who has the most control over where his penis ends up. The one putting his penis somewhere can elect (or not) to take the risk of punishment.

Because the sentence “Let me suck your dick or I’ll kill you” is impossible to utter in English?

With all due respect, I think virtually all the measures suggested in the OP are a better idea than this, Sailorman.

The remaining question is then: what about women? I can’t be sure, but I doubt strap-ons are readily available in prison, so you can’t decide who the perpetrator is simply looking for the penetrative partner.

Are you kidding? Is this really going to have to turn into a discussion of “what lesbians do in bed/no, one does not have to have a phallic object to have sex”?

Or maybe you were taking about the previous commenter who mentioned that if semen was found, rape would be assumed. Are we making semen-ejaculating strap-ons now?

It’s going to be difficult to sort out consensual from non-consensual sex in a prison environment. It seems to me that they only way that they can prevent non-consensual sex in a prison is to ban ALL sex.

That might work for prisoner on prisoner rape common in male prisons but will do little in women’s prisons (and youth authority facilities) for men and teenaged girls, because most of these women and girls who are raped are actually raped by guards or correctional officers. Banning prisoners for “sex” might put these women and girls in the position of being blamed for their own rapes if it’s deemed that they are having sex with the guards and correctional officers rather than being raped and often that’s the attitude already since consensual sex essentially is already banned.

I realize this thread is about prisoner rape meaning men who are raped in prison but there’s different populations who are raped in prison and the dynamics are not necessarily the same so the strategies won’t be either.

Some of the strategies listed do make sense for addressing prisoner rape involving men but I’m not sure whether they would be effective at dealing with that serious issue.

The “Never hit a woman” meme obviously not applying to women, it’s not much of a protection against violence to be female in prison.

No, in large part because of the reasons above.

People don’t control whether they are kids; they do control whether they are prisoners (or more accurately, whether they are not prisoners.) They also control, through their actions, the length of time that they will be deprived of normality while in prison. Presumably there is at least some link between the degree to which people violate moral codes and the length of time which they spend in prison.

We have to be more cautious with children because they don’t necessarily deserve to be deprived of stuff. But we don’t have to have the same level of concern for prisoners: although we can’t do anything we want, the balancing of interests is much different.

I’m confused as to why you are conflating normal kids with prisoners. Am i missing something?

I didn’t conflate, I compared. These are not the same rhetorical devices.

You’ve decided that because you find sex in prison inconvenient to regulate, it’s easiest just not to allow anyone to have sex in prison, without mentioning that some people will not be allowed out of prison for decades or perhaps ever. This actually is much harsher than the idea that “normal kids” shouldn’t have a romantic life while they’re young and being supported by their parents — at least my parents had an endpoint in mind for when it would be acceptable for dating and sex to begin. So you’re right, it’s an unfair comparison.

It came to mind because in both situations, one group is under the state-sanctioned control of another, and it’s rather easy for the controlling group to decree that sex is so messy and complicated that it’s really easier for controlling group if the controlled group just isn’t allowed to have it at all under any circumstances.

The remaining question is then: what about women? I can’t be sure, but I doubt strap-ons are readily available in prison, so you can’t decide who the perpetrator is simply looking for the penetrative partner.

The first criteria to doing so effectively is to stop prisoner sex, thus being able to avoid the consent defense.

You can deter sex by punishing both parties, but that causes a significant deterrent of rape reporting. Conversely, if you only punish one party, then the other party has no disincentive against reporting a rape.

So; who to punish? May as well be the one who has the most control over where his penis ends up. The one putting his penis somewhere can elect (or not) to take the risk of punishment.

Schala: we’re talking about prison. So heterosexual sex is not really an issue, as I do not believe there to be any mixed sex prisons.

You’re considering the bottom to be “the woman” of the relationship, in prison. Thus were I found my analogy. Implying guilt upon a purpotedly dominant position does not work, is what I say.

PG: Yes, I thought I was clear that I was referring to male homosexual sex; sorry if that wasn’t apparent. I’m referring to males at this point because males make up somewhere in the range of 90% of prisoners and (I suspect, though i may be wrong) therefore 90% if not more of prison rapists and rape victims. And I’m referring to adult homosexual sex because that is the only kind of sex available to prison inmates in a unisex prison.

As for semen as the be-all and end-all of proof, that seems likely to cause assaulting prisoners to keep committing the assaults but pull out before they would release a large amount of semen. How easily can a swab pick up the amount of genetic material left during the course of sex but prior to orgasm?

Dunno. I am all for convicting them on other issues as well. My point is merely that in a variety of physical settings there can be a single person to prosecute.

Assigning that role to the dominant male in a male hetero relationship is one of convenience, and takes into account the assumption that consenual sex is banned.

My parents had the same idea about sex and dating for when young people are in school: why are they doing this when they are supposed to be learning? let them have sex once they have gotten an education and settled down. This of course got them treated as crazy by Westerners who grew up on Romeo & Juliet as a cultural icon.

I’m confused as to why you are conflating normal kids with prisoners. Am i missing something?

Wanting a dominant position in a relationship shouldn’t be subordinate to someone wanting a submissive position in a relationship (or limited to the sex part if you prefer). I’m not playing semantics really. I’m saying that say, me, a submissive woman, wanting to be in a submissive sexual position - is well aware of what will happen, I’m informed. I “choose” that not because I think it’s “women’s place in life” (or just in sex), but because I like it personally, period.

There are people who are masochists. Personally I’m not, and probably could not understand the motive to be masochist, but it doesn’t make them bad people or dupes.

If there is something that happens to which I haven’t consented to, then it is sexual assault - but were I dominant, it wouldn’t change a thing. Unless I’m physically bound and unable to move, there always is room for me to sexually assault my partner.

Similarly, it seems difficult to rape someone orally: you can make someone give you a blowjob, but the reverse is tricky.

This must be peculiar to male homosexual sex, as one of my friends was sexually assaulted by her boyfriend in high school in part through his insisting on performing oral sex on her to which she did not consent.

As for semen as the be-all and end-all of proof, that seems likely to cause assaulting prisoners to keep committing the assaults but pull out before they would release a large amount of semen. How easily can a swab pick up the amount of genetic material left during the course of sex but prior to orgasm?

I mean, why are we really even concerned with consensual sex (much less consensual BSDM) in prison, for chrissakes? Let people have sex when they’re out.

My parents had the same idea about sex and dating for when young people are in school: why are they doing this when they are supposed to be learning? let them have sex once they have gotten an education and settled down. This of course got them treated as crazy by Westerners who grew up on Romeo & Juliet as a cultural icon.

piny, your argument doesn’t really seem to grok in the male prison rape context. The biggest defense to rape is consent, and if there is no consensual sex, there can be no “consent defense.” Note that this does not require charging or prosecuting the victim for being an accessory. (obviously, charging both parties is a problem. You assume we need to do so, and therefore conclude that criminalizing sex won’t work. I prefer the solution of “don’t charge both parties.”

Furthermore, particularly when it comes to penetrative homosexual male sex, it seems essentially impossible to rape someone if you’re in the role of ‘bottom.’ Similarly, it seems difficult to rape someone orally: you can make someone give you a blowjob, but the reverse is tricky.

So not to be too blunt about it, but to me it seems like the general policy would be “if you say you were raped, you get swabbed, and if there’s semen then the perp gets busted.” Or you can report it solo or with witnesses, of course.

Sure, you’ll still have the issue of one-on-one rape with no witnesses and no physical evidence… but that’s simply life, not the fault of the prison.

And you’ll have no consensual sex, unless you are really willing to trust the receiving partner not to bust you. But so what? I mean, why are we really even concerned with consensual sex (much less consensual BSDM) in prison, for chrissakes? Let people have sex when they’re out.

Moreover, the results of this assortative migration _will_ tend to be racially segregationist — simply by the individual choices of the inmates.

what would your response be if it turned out that black men were being classified as being in the high-threat category at higher rates than white men?

That’s the reality and Human Rights Watch discusses it plainly.