Editor’s Note: I’m absolutely not going to let this thread turn into a discussion of how whites really aren’t racist, and people of color are really the problem. So if you want to leave a whiny comment about Al Sharpton or illegal immigrants or any other distraction, I’ll delete it.
I want to pull several seemingly unrelated posts together to make a point about contemporary racism. Yesterday, I read this post over at Racialicious. Carmen closes the post with the following sentences about Don Imus and Michael Richards:
The Richards incident started with the racist ravings of a white man, complete with references to lynching, but ended up as a public discussion of why black people keep using the n-word towards each other. The Imus incident started with the racist and misogynist remarks of a white man, but ended up as a public referendum on misogyny in hip hop.
It’s fascinating to me that all roads seem to lead back to discussions of how black people are supposedly oppressing themselves.
I am struck by how common this phenomenon is. The basic pattern that these discussion follow is:
- White person makes incredibly racist statements.
- Some people express outrage over those statements; others seek to downplay the statements.
- Those who want to downplay the statements are able to win the “hearts and minds” of the vast majority of whites, who want operate by the anything but racism philosophy.
- The conversation the turns to how it really isn’t racist or wasn’t intention of the person. Since this allows people to think it is not that person’s fault, they then proceed to the last step.
- Blaming the real victims of racism.
This leads to sentiments like notion Don Imus called women nappy headed hos because of Hip Hop. Once we reach the 5th step the conversation is almost beyond repair. Whites are reframed as victims people of color (in particular blacks) are framed as the real source of the problem, and then the debate has totally shifted.
Professor Black Woman’s post here gives several examples of this phenomenon. In particular, she focuses on how Tucker Carlson discussed the Jena 6 case by discussing Carlson’s reframing:
In the “new” face of racism, two things have to happen: 1. acknowledge that the certain aspects of any racist incident are extreme (not unfair, extreme) or that the black community is acceptable to you & 2. then posit a racist overlaying narrative that essential reframes the discussion around the unfair and extreme behavior perceived to be experienced by white people.
After reading those Carmen’s and Professor Black Woman’s posts, I was reminded of the discussion we had here and at Alas about the Don Imus controversy. I put up very few posts about the Don Imus case, but the discussion generated in those posts two posts reveals how these contemporary racist tactics work.
Let me start by going through the discussion on Rachel’s Tavern. At Rachel’s Tavern, most of the people who commented on the Imus post are black, not everybody (but most). Dcase (who I really like; I promise) was the first person to bring Hip Hop into the discussion, which lead to a focus on Blacks not Imus. He said,
Moreover, there is some hypocrisy inherent here in that many of those who are up in arms about Imus referring to them as such but use such language everyday in their own speech and bob their heads to it from their music. This especially true among blacks: the hateful stuff that they commonly direct to each other is often worse than anything a racist could think up.
This statement unleashed criticism from most of the subsequent posters, many of whom pointed out the logical flaw that it is unfair to assume that the people who were upset were necessarily the same people who condone the use of sexist and racist language in Hip Hop. (It’s worth reading the whole thread.) I think Gandolf Mantooth’s post summarized it well:
I don’t understand the “so what blacks do it, too” defense. So, Dcase, if Imus had used the N-word on air, would you still have the same opinion? Moreover, I don’t think that if say, Chris Rock (since he seems to be one of the whipping boys of the moment) had called the Rutgers team the same thing on some chat show that there would not have been similar outrage. Perhaps some non-African Americans might have sat on the sidelines and watched, however there would have been a problem, and for him, it would have started at home.
What is even MORE baffling is how many people are trying to pull rap music into the discussion (not only coming from the White right, but from Black talk radio). It seems that lately, any time a White guy mouths of we gotta talk about hip hop.
What’s interesting to me about this is the underlying tone about how we approach women athletes in the public sphere
I replied:
Which is one reason why many reasonable and non-sexist black men don’t say that bullshit. These stupid pundits think Too Short and Two Live Crew represent that typical black men.
Yeah, we always have to bring up hip hop and ignorant black people as an excuse for whites’ racism.
Angry Independent joined in the Hip Hop criticism later in the discussion by asking me:
Surely you aren’t trying to make excuses for the Rap Community?
Why shouldn’t they be held to the same standard for doing far more damage than Don Imus on a daily basis?
This caravan of criticism & accountability shouldn’t stop with Don Imus… We should drive this thing all the way to the doorstep of Hip Hop, urban radio, the record executives, the rappers, BET, and all the rest.
To which I responded:
No I’m not excusing it, but I do think it is not relevant to Imus. Just because some sexist black men degrade black women by calling them hos doesn’t mean it’s Ok for white men to do it.
This is the classic condemn the condemners strategy. It’s like the guy caught on tape committing a crime, and the first thing he says is “Other people stold too.” But you’re the one on tape, you’re the one everybody caught. You’re the one on trial.
Sexist hip hop artists and sexist black men can get their trial on another day, but it is not relevant now.
Then Angry Independent said:
Whoa!!!
I think you might have misunderstood me. I am completely against what Imus did… just to make that clear. And I AM NOT saying that Imus should be allowed to get away with it because rappers do it.
I am basically saying almost the opposite…. I am saying that ALL should be condemned…and that the African American community has to look within at this same kind of behavior, which (in the Black Community) is far more damaging. Yet, I don’t see Sharpton and Jesse & others working as vigorously or with the same determination to organize boycotts, or to get people fired at these radio stations, record companies, at rap concerts, against BET, etc.
I think we will just have to agree to disagree on the issue of rap not being relevent to the Imus situation. IT IS VERY relevent. The two cannot and must not be separated. One has facilitated the other. One has desensitized the society to such a degree that someone like Imus thought that this would be O.k. or that it would blow over.
The two issues are inseparable.
Then I responded:
I don’t think you are saying this personally, but I think the outcome of always bringing up sexist comments from black men or attacking the character of blacks who note these racist comment allows white racists to feel better.
On the issue of blaming hip hop…..I feel sexism and the “whore” image of black women existed way before hip hop. Sexist rappers may have helped it along, and they should be held accountable, but they didn’t create the problem anymore than preachers, politicans, and other sexist men.
Do you think Imus was out listening to hip hop, and it influenced him? I don’t think so. White men have stereotyped black women as “hos” going back a long way…back to slavery. They used this as a justification for rape and exploitation. This started way before hip hop.
Now for the record, I do think Hip Hop deserves criticism, and I do think both Angry Independent and dcase mean well. I’ve read enough comments of theirs to know that, but the reason others folks and I were so frustrated at that line of reasoning is that it is used by many in politics, mass media, and academia to avoid discussing white racism. I agree that there is a time and a place for Black Americans, like dcase, Angry Independent or any of the other folks participating in that thread, to talk about Blacks who degrade other Blacks, but that discussion needs to happen not because a white guy like Imus degrades Blacks.
The thread at Alas was even worse. Since there is no way I can actually recreate the 216 comments, I’ll just summarize what happened. When one commenter focused only on the sexist aspect of the comments, I reminded her that “It also matters that the women were black.” To which Brandon Berg responded,
It’s not at all clear that it does, given that he then went on to say, “the girls from Tennessee, they all look cute,” and they’re black, too (as far as I can tell—the video clip isn’t very clear). His choice of whom to insult and whom to compliment was based on his perception of their attractiveness, not their race.
I responded to Brandon, by saying it was obvious that he would not have called a white woman nappy headed. I also noted that references Black women as “hos” were much more common than references to white women as hos, to which Brandon responded:
He called them hoes because they had tattoos. The perception of an association between tattoos and promiscuity and/or general trashiness is not something that’s limited to black women. For example, lower-back tattoos on white women are called “tramp stamps.” It wouldn’t strike me at all as unusual if a man were to call a group of white women with visible tattoos “hoes.”
I’m not sure what you mean about Google. “White hoes” gets slightly more googits than “black hoes,” and likewise “hos”. Are you talking about quantity or quality?
The only other time I’ve ever heard the phrase “nappy-head” was back in high school, when a Mexican boy called a Mexican girl with straight hair a nappy-head. I realize that one meaning of nappy is the texture of a black person’s hair, but it also means icky or unappealing, and is used as a generic insult. You can argue that the second meaning has racist origins in that it was derived from the first, but words tend to get divorced from their origins, and people use them without understanding where they came from.
Just to be clear, I’m not saying that it wasn’t a bad thing to say. I’m just saying that I’m not sure race factored into it much if at all. Racism is one of the few things that’s more or less universally regarded as unacceptable in American culture, so as a rule non-nuts don’t say things which are clearly racist. Which is why most of the examples of racist comments that you post are ambiguous.
For the record, Brandon never met a case of racism that he actually thought was racism. This was part of an on-going tit-for-tat between he and I, in which I would put up a post about an event or practice that I felt was racist, and he would come in an say it wasn’t racism.
On the upside, there were several people challenging Brandon, but as the thread went along racism apologists started to outnumber (or it was at least equal) the people saying Imus’s comment was not racist. Then at some point the discussion ended up moving away from the original content, and the racism apologists helped move us to a discussion of what is racist and who is racist. They wanted to define racism so narrowly that almost nothing is defined as racist. Robert made this claim:
Saying so-and-so is a racist, in my view, is saying that they’re of a piece with the night riders who terrorized blacks, raping and killing to buttress an awful system of oppression and outright tyranny. That’s one hell of a serious charge to lay on somebody, so I’m reluctant to do it unless the evidence is unequivocal. Racism is evil, and racists are evil. I hate to put someone in the “evil” category if I don’t have to.
To which I responded (you can click on this link for the full comment):
To Robert and everyone else,
The problem here is the very simplistic thinking. White racism runs the gamit from very virulent violence that can result in bodily injury to more subtle things like not feeling comfortable in a room where there are people of color or not listening when people of color give their points of view.
When we reserve the term racism for only the most violent acts, we ignore the cumulative affects of those more subtle forms of racism, which add up over time.
(To Robert) Take your early reaction to Angel H. She was clearly ticked off, and even though I don’t agree with her in theory, she was trying very hard to be heard. She was saying as a black woman I find this offensive, and then what happened? Rather than making any attempt to confirm her feelings or acknowledge why she was hurt and frustrated, you came in with your theory. In doing so, you dismissed her frustration, your dismissed her view, you dismissed her anger, and you dismissed her as a black woman. Because you were so fixated on being right and creating a good theory, but you did really seem to connect with her everyday experience. (I saw the same thing with pheeno on a thread about a month ago.)…..
But letting go of racism and privilege is so very hard for most white people. So rather than being able to serious engage Angel and acknowledge her feelings we have to go back to our precious worldviews. We just can’t let the focus be on the black women who were insulted by such language. No instead we have to insult black male leaders and go over what we think are their shortcomings, talk about really nice white guys, who help kids with cancer. Then we start to talk about the great freedom of speech principle, and on and on and on……Ok, white folks and men. It’s not all about us and our views all the time. Just take a minute to put yourself in someone elses shoes.
What was also disturbing about that thread was that all of the black women, especially Angel H. and Ann, were dismissed or ignored as if their perspectives weren’t important, which was incredibly insulting since the racist and sexist comments by Imus were directly at Black women.
That Alas thread was one of the most exasperating and annoying exercises in contemporary racist rhetoric I have ever seen. A few posters wanted to talk about Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson (because every time white guys screw up we have to talk about both of them); another one wanted claim that there are basic genetic differences between whites and blacks; Michael wanted to talk about how black women are doing great because Oprah Winfrey is doing well, and an idiot called GET OVER IT admonished those of us complaining about Imus’s comments to:
FIND SOMETHING BETTER TO WORRY ABOUT. ALMOST ALL OF YOU COMPLAINERS OUT THERE ARE GUILTY OF DOING THE SAME THING ONE TIME OR ANOTHER. IF THIS WAS EDDIE MURPHY OR SOME OTHER BLACK PERSON THAT SAID THIS, NO ONE WOULD HAVE EVEN SAID ANYTHING.
It got so bad that Ampersand, banned 5 different people from posting on the thread, and we had a really long discussion both on and off the site about how we were going to change the comment policy.
Here’s what frustrates me: we need to talk about white people’s role in racism. We need to have a discussion about white racism that is not derailed. After all, Whites hold the vast majority of power in the US (and in the global political and economic institutions), and we have the most influence over racism. We need to stop pretending that Hip Hop, or Black criminals, or anyone who acknowledges racism is the problem. The analogy I have used for the past 10-15 years is the analogy of alcoholism. One of the basic tenets Alcoholics Anonymous is that a person has to acknowledge his or her alcoholism before he or she can get better. Well the same is true for white racism. No matter what people of color are doing. We whites don’t need to make an excuse, saying when Black people do better then we will stop being racist. First, it unfair to make glaring generalizations about how bad black people are based on the behavior of a select few blacks, and second, we don’t have to wait for every black person (Latinos, Asians, and Native Americans, too) to be perfect before we stop being racist. If we want to stop racism, we have to acknowledge that the problem is ours. We need to have a conversation about ourselves where racism is at the forefront. We need to stop the distraction tactics, stop the victim mentality, stop the whining, and focus on what we can do better.
This pattern of behavior needs to stop. Just like alcoholism, white racism doesn’t need enablers, and it doesn’t need excuses. For racism to stop we need whites to acknowledge the problem and then to start working on it.